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EldarOnline => Eldar => Topic started by: Farseer Ashair on December 23, 2011, 10:32:44 AM

Title: Night Spinner VS Warp Hunter
Post by: Farseer Ashair on December 23, 2011, 10:32:44 AM
Hey all Just wanted to see what your views are on these Two... i love the look of the Night Spinner but what plays out best on a battle feild
Title: Re: Night Spinner VS Warp Hunter
Post by: Khorne25 on December 23, 2011, 11:10:52 AM
The Nightspinner and Warp Hunter occupy the HS slot for a Craftworld army. Usually Craftworlders would take 2 Fire Prisms and another template weapon, traditionally the Night Spinner. The Warp Hunter came along and change that, and I now lean towards using 2 Fire Prisms + 1 Warp Hunter.

For the Corsair Army, its  different piece of pie. Nightspinners are now FA which basically allows Corsair players to field 3 Warp Hunters and 2 Night Spinners - night spinners providing long range (indeed entire board range) weapons and Warp Hunters being much more close and personal.
Title: Re: Night Spinner VS Warp Hunter
Post by: Farseer Ashair on December 23, 2011, 11:15:29 AM
I wasnt aware of the night spinner being a FA this changes things dramatically for me lol
my FA was going to be the new hornet... i was thinking of doing 2 warp hunters and 1 fire prism...hmmm
Title: Re: Night Spinner VS Warp Hunter
Post by: Khorne25 on December 23, 2011, 11:19:27 AM
Check the IA11 when/if you have it :)

As with FW stuff planningis even more necessary considering the price tag!
Title: Re: Night Spinner VS Warp Hunter
Post by: Farseer Ashair on December 23, 2011, 12:23:17 PM
indeed! but i dont wanna burn my entire load on a overpriced book when i could get some shiny new models since all mine are currently 4yr and older..
Title: Re: Night Spinner VS Warp Hunter
Post by: Lother on December 23, 2011, 01:54:39 PM
For the Corsair Army, its  different piece of pie. Nightspinners are now FA which basically allows Corsair players to field 3 Warp Hunters and 2 Night Spinners - night spinners providing long range (indeed entire board range) weapons and Warp Hunters being much more close and personal.
So irregular forces with scarce resources like corsairs field more heavy armor than militarized craftworlds?
That's weird...
Title: Re: Night Spinner VS Warp Hunter
Post by: Farseer Ashair on December 23, 2011, 02:44:23 PM
depending on the planet that could be the case and the skill of bonsingers
Title: Re: Night Spinner VS Warp Hunter
Post by: greenmtvince on December 23, 2011, 10:30:01 PM
For the Corsair Army, its  different piece of pie. Nightspinners are now FA which basically allows Corsair players to field 3 Warp Hunters and 2 Night Spinners - night spinners providing long range (indeed entire board range) weapons and Warp Hunters being much more close and personal.
So irregular forces with scarce resources like corsairs field more heavy armor than militarized craftworlds?
That's weird...

I don't think that was the designers intent.  I've been saying the corsair list is great for anyone trying to do a Yme-Loc Craftworld force.  You can get 6 Falcons, 3 Nightspinners, 3 Warp Hunters or Firestorms, and 1 (or is it 3?) Wave Serpents with Fire Dragons all in one FOC.  I mean, that's what, 9-10 BS4 Eldar tanks in an 1850 list?  Not exactly the fluffy, lightning fast pirate raiding they intended to do, but certainly something comparable to the Armoured Battlegroup list from Imperial Armour 1. 
Title: Re: Night Spinner VS Warp Hunter
Post by: Khorne25 on December 23, 2011, 10:31:15 PM
By the way, no Wave Serpents for Corsairs. Only Corsair Falcons and theyre expensive.
Title: Re: Night Spinner VS Warp Hunter
Post by: Lachdonin on December 24, 2011, 12:10:58 AM
For the Corsair Army, its  different piece of pie. Nightspinners are now FA which basically allows Corsair players to field 3 Warp Hunters and 2 Night Spinners - night spinners providing long range (indeed entire board range) weapons and Warp Hunters being much more close and personal.
So irregular forces with scarce resources like corsairs field more heavy armor than militarized craftworlds?
That's weird...

The Eldar Codex is, IMO, a terrible representation of a Background Eldar army. First and formost, it completely lacks air support, which is the defining characteristic of an Eldar army.

At best, the Eldar Codex can be argued to represent a 'raiding' force, similar to the one which attacked both a Manor and an Imperial Stronghold in the Path books. It is not, in any way shape or form, an army, or even a detachment thereof.
Title: Re: Night Spinner VS Warp Hunter
Post by: Irisado on December 24, 2011, 06:33:00 AM
I keep looking at this thread expecting to see a discussion about the Warp Hunter and Night Spinner, and I keep being disappointed.  Let's get back to discussing that topic please, and leave discussions about IA11 and the narrative from it for the IA11 thread.
Title: Re: Night Spinner VS Warp Hunter
Post by: Morachi on December 24, 2011, 08:16:25 AM
There was once an argument similar to this between the Night Spinner and Fire Prism. Basically they are both niche, one brings direct killing power, the other is a support unit - think of it comparatively like an Autarch and their HtH prowess etc versus a Farseer which carries powers such as Doom or Fortune, one is used to bolster your ranks whilst the other carves holes in your opponents force.

Likewise, the Night Spinner and the Warp Hunter hold their own strategic and tactical importance. The Night Spinner is used to keep your enemy from matching speed with your Warhost, whilst the Warp Hunter is used to maneuver (withits shorter range) either into position to destroy the slowed enemy, or distance itself from a particularly nasty foe.

Synergy is the key with any Eldar force, those who do well with an aged codex know this is the case. Just make sure when you consider a unit in the FOC, to also factor in how it will compliment your other choices ;)
Title: Re: Night Spinner VS Warp Hunter
Post by: Rakshasa72 on December 25, 2011, 04:16:28 AM
Not sure if this is a propper question to ask in this forum but, since this thread is about Night spinner VS Warp Hunter I was wondering about the effectivenss of the secondary net effect of the Night Spinners main weapon.  The counts as difficult/dangerous terrain effect.  Does this effect impact play or is it just a gimick?
Title: Re: Night Spinner VS Warp Hunter
Post by: Aoitora on December 25, 2011, 06:10:31 AM
I would say it impacts play a lot and is the primary reason for taking the night spinner. Remember it only needs to clip one model from a squad to make a whole squad move slower + dangerous. Hitting two squads of 30 ork boys for example would be where this thing excels. Also it can intimidate more inexperienced players into not moving at all.
A real big bonus is it prevents bikes from turbo boosting (its in the core rules section in bike movement) which can be a real plus if you're up against nob bikers, just keep netting them and keep them out of action all game.

My Warp Hunter should be here after the public holidays so then I'll give my opinion on that.
Title: Re: Night Spinner VS Warp Hunter
Post by: Farseer Ashair on December 27, 2011, 12:46:07 PM
so in terms of gaming what would you say is most value for points?
Title: Re: Night Spinner VS Warp Hunter
Post by: Morachi on December 28, 2011, 03:54:00 AM
Seriously, this is impossible to answer. It is not a case of "better" it is a case of what you're going to use it for. For example, if you have a bunch of anti-heavy armour already and you're facing a swarm, the Night Spinner is the better option. This is also true for the inverse , per say if you have lots of anti-horde you'd want the Warp Hunter to take down heavy invantry and armour. In the same nexus, probably better comparisons are the Warp Hunter and Fire Prism - although they differ mostly in range, again then you have to consider your armies mobility in this instance.

Horses for courses. Don't miss the entire point of the Eldar army - synergy. Forget that and you've already lost.
Title: Re: Night Spinner VS Warp Hunter
Post by: Katamari Damacy on December 30, 2011, 05:10:26 PM
I use both the NS and the WH and as has been mentioned, it's hard to say which one is better. The Warp Hunter has an unmatched potential for destruction while the Nightspinner is more for the 'trickery' kind of playing.

For playing against horde armies, i would probably pick the Spinner. It's high strenght and rending make it a viable choice, even against Space Marines. Personally i don't understand why people still use Prisms, they are clearly inferior when compared to the NS, unless you take two (and even then....).

I use the Warp Hunter in my Hybrid army, where it acts as an additional bullet magnet for the mech-wing. My opponents can either chose to fire at my Serpents, loaded with Banshees/Dragons/Avengers or the WH.

I have not read the IA11 yet, but if they didn't fundamentally change the rules for the Hunter, it's Flame Template still pretty much obliterates anything it touches at 2+. It can't get better than that  ;)

The Warp Hunter is more impressive overall and probably better at killing popular armies.
Title: Re: Night Spinner VS Warp Hunter
Post by: XavianBlacksoul on January 2, 2012, 06:42:33 AM
Well i think they are hard to compare really. They are both very good at what they do, but they do very different things. I had not heard that they are fast attack now though. I take it that this is just when using the FW book, as the download rules from GW still say heavy.

Anyway the Night spinner has been brilliant for me. It really feels like an Eldar craft and helps the other components of the army play to their strengths. Against horde armies it is truly deadly. I like to place the template so it hits multiple units and being TW/L it hardly misses. It scares the bejesus out of them. Being barrage also means that cover saves become less important. It is less powerful against marines and such but still has an important role on the battlefield. They will role a one from time to time but the main aim is to slow them down. Take assault troops such as Berserkers or death company for example. Slowing them down can give you that little edge that you need to win the game. Other points would be because of the massive range and being able to indirect fire, you can keep it out of harms way the whole game. Meaning that you don't need to spend points on H/fields and stones.

The Warp hunter is a completely different beast. Others may disagree but i see it as an aggressive support vehicle. To be used when rushing forward while in tandem with serpents/falcons. The small blast is great but at the low bs and not being TW/L it can disappoint. It's true strength is the template weapon. Which can take out whole units in the blink of an eye. Link this with your onrushing vehicles it can destroy any speed bumps you find along the way. It is a massive target for your opponent so you need fields and stones, this makes it rather expensive.

Hopefully this helps although i don't believe you can say one is better than the other. It all depends on your style of play.

All the best.
Title: Re: Night Spinner VS Warp Hunter
Post by: DeusXenith on January 2, 2012, 08:43:39 PM
At this point is is important to mention that as of the release of IA:11, The Warp Hunter uses the large blast template, not the small one.
Title: Re: Night Spinner VS Warp Hunter
Post by: XavianBlacksoul on January 3, 2012, 05:19:37 AM
Thanks, i still have not seen the book yet. Having a large blast will make it a lot more effective at range. I still think that i would use it aggressively though.
Title: Re: Night Spinner VS Warp Hunter
Post by: Katamari Damacy on January 3, 2012, 10:51:38 AM
At this point is is important to mention that as of the release of IA:11, The Warp Hunter uses the large blast template, not the small one.

Is this really true? I don't have the book (won't have it for quite a while), so i would highly appreciate if someone could simply post a 'yes' or 'no' so that there's no copyright-problem.

I thought the WH was awesome already, a large blast would be kinda insane, but certainly appreciated :D
Title: Re: Night Spinner VS Warp Hunter
Post by: Farseer Ashair on January 4, 2012, 04:52:23 PM
Wow if it stays this way itll b impressive but i doubt it i recon if it ever makes a codex it maybe toned down
Title: Re: Night Spinner VS Warp Hunter
Post by: Mordecai on January 5, 2012, 01:52:42 PM
Not only is it large blast, but it glances on a 2-4, penetrating on 5+, according to IA Apoc 2nd Ed.  Is it different in IA 11?

If not, under which circumstances would the Prism be better?
Title: Re: Night Spinner VS Warp Hunter
Post by: Irisado on January 5, 2012, 04:15:03 PM
Please remember that fishing for rules isn't allowed.  We're not a replacement for the books.  If you want to know specific details about rules, then you'll have to buy the book.
Title: Re: Night Spinner VS Warp Hunter
Post by: Morachi on January 5, 2012, 08:01:53 PM
Fire Prism is designed for range. Really depends on what you're fighting against - sheer destructive power would be the Warp Hunter outright, but against CC armies with little mobility, a Fire Prism might be the ticket if cover saves aren't easily found by the enemy.
Title: Re: Night Spinner VS Warp Hunter
Post by: Farseer Ashair on January 6, 2012, 04:55:07 PM
2 warp hunters and 1 fire prism for good measure :P haha what i struggling to understand is if you wanna play appoc do you purchase the appoc rule book or the A11? because from what i read certain stats contradict each other, or do you need both?  im deff getting the WH and i may use NS in my FS slot rather then Shining spears...
Title: Re: Night Spinner VS Warp Hunter
Post by: The GrimSqueaker on January 6, 2012, 05:14:11 PM
IA 11 is the most recent version of the rules and so if there's a disagreement with the Apoc book and IA 11 you go with IA 11.
Title: Re: Night Spinner VS Warp Hunter
Post by: Farseer Ashair on January 7, 2012, 08:49:14 AM
So if I buy ia11 I won't need the others??
Title: Re: Night Spinner VS Warp Hunter
Post by: The GrimSqueaker on January 7, 2012, 01:09:04 PM
That would depend on whether everything you want rules for is located within IA 11 or not. This Imperial Armour volume also does not contain the Apoc appendices at the back so for some of the vehicles you'll either need a copy of a IA 10 or such or a copy of the more recent Apoc II book to use to replace them.
Title: Re: Night Spinner VS Warp Hunter
Post by: mustanguk on April 18, 2012, 05:06:11 AM
I agree with the different strokes argument. I personnally run both a warp hunter and a night spinner in my Eldar army with my final HS slot going to either a squadren of war walkers, a wraithlord or a 2nd night spinner.

I've never been a fan of the fire prism purely because they need to be fielded in pairs to be most effective and there are just too many good things I'd want to take.

The best thing about a night spinner is it has range. Lots of range and It can be devestating against any army. The warp hunter just puts the fear of god into an opponent which is always nice.

Go for what you like not what works best. You'll always have more fun that way!
Title: Re: Night Spinner VS Warp Hunter
Post by: murgel on April 18, 2012, 06:01:24 AM
I I went for what I like then I would go for older rules...  ;D

Nightspinner not having the monofilamentweb rule BUT the 7" template and transport capacity.........


Anway, to me it all depends on just what fits into my specific composition and oponents. The Spinner is currently seeing use, the Prism not.
Title: Re: Night Spinner VS Warp Hunter
Post by: Irisado on April 18, 2012, 06:15:50 AM
[mod]This thread hasn't been posted in since January, and nothing revolutionary has been included to warrant raising this from the dead. Locked for thread necromancy.[/mod]