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Author Topic: Rules Question: Night Scythe Passenger Damage Results  (Read 1353 times)

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Offline Bobby P

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Rules Question: Night Scythe Passenger Damage Results
« on: December 9, 2012, 06:19:18 AM »
I saw this question posted on a 40k blog and wanted to see what people think :


So there is a heated debate online as to what happens to the passengers in Night Scythes. I would like to know your take on it and why you feel this way.

I for one think they take hits then go back into reserves. because they never hit the table, I feel they do not get RP or have to take Pinning or LD checks if under 25%.

People’s main arguments against are without RAW.

Some say they aren’t actually “on” the transport. This is pure fluff as the codex actually addresses them as ON the Night Scythe.

Some say because they need to take a Pin check or LD check they cant take the hits because they go back in reserve. This doesn’t make much sense to me.

Then lastly, most say that their Reserve rules supercedes them taking damage, thats why they go into reserve. This makes no sense, since to overrule the BRB their needs to be conflict and this conflicts with nothing. There is no debate that they go back into reserve, its just the hits.
« Last Edit: December 9, 2012, 06:36:32 AM by Bobby P »

Offline Alienscar

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Re: Rules Question: Night Scythe Passenger Damage Results
« Reply #1 on: December 9, 2012, 11:13:15 AM »
I can see the cause of confusion the Flyer rules on Page 81 for Crash and Burn appears to clash with the Scythes rule. But I would say that as the Crash and Burn rule is quite specific and I can't see anything in the Scythes rule that overides the Crash and Burn rule then the unit needs to take the Strength* hit before being placed into reserve.
I think you might be better off posting this in the rules forum.
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Offline Kaiju Senso

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Re: Rules Question: Night Scythe Passenger Damage Results
« Reply #2 on: December 9, 2012, 12:32:56 PM »
The transport rules for the Night Scythe say models may not disembark from a destroyed vehicle while the crash and burn rules seem to state they take the hits, then the survivors are disembarked. To me this means the squad inside will take hits first then go into reserve.

I also agree this might be better served in the Rules Forum, so off it goes.

Offline Narse

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Re: Rules Question: Night Scythe Passenger Damage Results
« Reply #3 on: December 9, 2012, 06:04:44 PM »
We had another question concerning the mission the Relic and where the relic should go if the squad picks it up...   The flyer can't move fast enough so it crashes, but would the Relic go to reserves or be dropped back to the table?
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Offline Galef

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Re: Rules Question: Night Scythe Passenger Damage Results
« Reply #4 on: December 9, 2012, 06:39:00 PM »
Here is a pretty good (though long) analysis on how the two rules interact:

Rulings – 6th Edition Necron Night Scythes, Crash and Burn, and Embarked

Even before I read this, I was convinced that models do not take hits.  Fluff or not, the models are not in the Scythe.

I look at it this way, if the rule for Crash and Burn was "all models inside are removed as casualties", then the Night Scythes rule would have no meaning, because there would be no models to place in reserve.

As it is, no models survive when they take Crash & Burn hits, so it may as well be "remove as casualties".
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Offline Shas'Oink

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Re: Rules Question: Night Scythe Passenger Damage Results
« Reply #5 on: December 10, 2012, 06:50:29 PM »
It is this paragraph which is the key point - though please do go and read that blog, its a good explanation of the thought process:

"The language of the Night Scythe’s rule provides us with some guidance as to where to start ‘cutting’ language.  The language of that rule “if the Night Scythe is destroyed” tells us it is triggered upon the destruction of the Night Scythe itself.  We concede that the Crash and Burn rule does not use the word “destroyed”, but as we’ve suggested before, it is clear to us that once the Night Scythe is removed from play, it’s destroyed.  That removal from play occurs at step #2 in our order of operations above – remove the flyer.  This strongly suggests that it is immediately after #2 where the Night Scythe’s own special rule ‘takes over’ and dictates the rest of the order of operations, which would mean the unit is simply placed into reserve without suffering any further ill effects.  But simple use of context provides a stronger argument still."


What it is basically saying is that the Night Scythes rule kicks in as soon as the flyer is destroyed. It is at that instant the transported models are sent into reserve. I would go one step further then the above though, and say that the destruction occurs once the damage result is known (either destroyed or explodes), as "crash and burn" is a rule that is applied after a flyer is known to have suffered one of those two. In any case, the night scythes destruction occurs BEFORE the models are due to take the hits so that when it comes to the time when the hits should be resolved there are no models to speak of, they have already been sent into reserve.

As such, the models do not take the hits.

Offline Galef

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Re: Rules Question: Night Scythe Passenger Damage Results
« Reply #6 on: January 12, 2013, 12:13:39 PM »
Just thought you ought to know, the latest update to the digital Necron codex states that passengers take no damage and are just placed in Reserves.
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Re: Rules Question: Night Scythe Passenger Damage Results
« Reply #7 on: January 12, 2013, 02:16:43 PM »
[gmod]The last time this thread was posted in was December 10th. While relevant, there was no need to post information that can easily be found and revive a long dead discussion to simply point something out.[/gmod]
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