Topic: Tactica: The Green Baron

[SKEETERGOD]

Well as the title states I am talking about the infamous Green Baron. It seems lately that I have been giving a lot of advice on the Baron, and prothelizing about him too. So I submit to you the tactica; The Green Baron.

PLEASE, offer suggestions and critique, as I would like to take this into the article section as well as get it into the boot camp. Any suggestions to make it better would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance; Without further ado:

The Green Baron

The Green Baron is the only unit in the entire ork list that works as an individual. There is the Green Torpedo, but he is a lot more expensive points wise, and uses up a HQ slot. But this is not about the green torpedo, this is about the Green Baron.

As for most things ork the more the better, the Green Baron is the exception to that rule.
The Green Baron is the exception in that, he never runs away; he is either on the board or dead. Twin link rockits makes him a good shot and the saw makes anything with rear armor 10 a nice juicy target.

So what is a Green Baron?
Simple, it is a single death copta with rockits and buzz saw. His mission is to kill enemy armor, and harass enemy heavy support. This is a job he does very well; the twin link rockits can punch most armor, and in assault the saw counts as a power klaw, so most any armor except AV14, can be cut through with the saw.

How to use the Green Baron.
There are two main methods for using the Baron: Start him on the board and turbo boost during the scout move towards the enemy. This tactic is called the alpha strike. The turbo move gives the baron a 3+ cover save, that will protect him from most enemy shooting, and gets him well within strike range to do his damage. Then move to get into the enemy lines, shooting a tank, and if you don't kill it then assault it. Since in assault you are striking against rear armor, his buzz saw can usually cut through it killing the tank.

The other method is to start him in reserve, then come in behind your enemy and kill his heavy support. With this you stand a 1 in 3 chance of coming in from the wrong side of the board, but with his turbo move he can be in position to do his work soon enough. Of course there is a chance the dice hate you and the Baron won't come in until the end of the game, in which case he is there for vengence, and not fire diversion.

There is a third tactic, and that is to sacrifice the Green Baron to tie up heavy support squads for a turn, to allow your boys to either get closer, or to get by to get to another target.

On occasion, I have sacrificed him by charging a devastator squad so that they couldn't shoot at my Battle Wagon, and of course he died, but it moved the devastators (with their required pile in move) to the other side of the building so they did not have line of sight to my BW. Nor could they shoot as their weapons are heavy (move or shoot) and they would have to move to get back into LOS. Of course, this situation does not come up often but it was worth a mention.

I am a great fan of the Green Baron, for what he does it is a great investment in points. If you are facing an opponent who has never faced the baron before you are going to show him how devastating the baron is. He will kill many tanks and transports if left unmolested. Once he has ravaged an enemy, he usually becomes a top priority target.

It all boils down to this: The baron either is devastating to the enemy, or dies quick.

So, to show how he gets used and performs would take many pages, and since I don’t want to write a book I will tell a few war stories to demonstrate the joys of the Green Baron.

Against an IG player the GB killed all 3 of his earth shakers and then got a leman russ tank in the 4th and 5th turn. He had made the mistake of lining up all his stuff on the back of the board and had nothing that could shoot the baron once I was behind him. The baron has destroyed many an IG template throwing vehicle and is the most dreaded member of the ork army when playing against IG.

On the occasions where he does not do well, is when IG players who have suffered the ravages of the baron target him relentlessly on the first turn until he is dead. This is also good, as a lot of fire has gone into the baron and not into my trucks allowing me to speed across the board and get stuck in unscathed.

Against necrons he is a great destroyer destroyer. In the standard squad of 3-5 destroyers the GB will kill one with shooting, and assault. His T is high enough and his save good enough that he will survive the 2-4 attacks and then his buzz saw will kill 1-2 of the destroyers and win the combat. He can glance the monolith possibly immobalizing it, and with further hits reduce its number of attacks. He is pretty good for harassing and wounding those pesky c-tans that they always seem to have hanging around. A c-tan cannot join a squad and so can be shot at all day long by the GB.

Against marines is the main time I start him in reserve, as usually they have more than enough AP4 stuff to kill the baron outright. In one game the GB killed two vindicators and a shooty dread more than earning him another glory mark. Against most marines the rockit is insta-death so when an IC ends up standing out in the open the baron can shoot and kill it. To have a devastator or long fang squad turn around to take on the baron will save a lot of boys and their trucks, allowing for the boys to get in close, like we are prone to do.

Against eldar the GB can easily take down any falcon or prism that may be out there shooting you, once you are behind them they are easy pickings. Thier holo field does give them a slight advantage in not getting destroyed, so when the rockit fails ti kill it, make sure you are in assault range to follow up. In a few games the GB killed every serpent and falcon on the table giving the orks the higher mobility and the win. Most of the time the eldar players will shoot everything they have at the GB making it vitally important to turbo boost during the scout move. Twice now I have had the eldar shoot everything in their army at the baron only to have the baron survive because of his 3+ cover save, and this meant that the rest of my army took no damage at all.

Against the tau the baron is a good broadside and crisis suit killer, shoot one and then assault killing another, and sweeping the survivor. It works that way most of the time, when it doesn't then you have them tied up in combat so they are not shooting your other vehicles. I have done that to the tau so many times I have lost count. He is also great against their other vehicles too. Just stay away from their hammerheads as the flechets will usually cause a wound on the baron, but if you get within 6" then the rockits can fly unmolested against the rear armor of their tanks. It is to the point now that unless it is a new tau player, they usually shoot at the baron ignoring all other ork targets until the baron is dead. Again this allows the majority of my force to get in too close where tau do not like it.
 
Against DE, he is a great killer of transports, having those witches and warriors walk, is a good thing for orks. The DE players were arrogant and would ignore the baron with their drive to get in close to the boys, so they often times zoomed right past him, getting him behind them without having to do anything but turbo during the scout move. Then the baron would lazily turn around and shoot down a raider, leaving a bunch of dismounted warriors in front of a truck load of boys. Great fun. So, for a while the DE players continued to ignore the baron even though he killed three or 4 of their raiders every game. Now they start to target the baron first turn and again this allows the rest of my army to catch the tricksy DE before they can assault.

Now I hardly ever play against another ork player, but when I do the green baron is good at killing those pesky kans and dreads that are so prevalent where I play. The baron will usually only last one kill, so the trade off is important. If I can kill a dread then my baron has earned his points as usually right after that the kans turn and shoot the baron down. Since I have only played but a few games against other orks I cannot define a strategy for using the baron against other orks, except to say that he does what he does.

The one thing you want to avoid is charging the baron into combat with infantry. He is not a CC expert, as a matter of fact he is not even good at it. Charging into infantry will only get the baron killed. Unless you are sacrificing him to make the enemy move away from your forces, or making them use their pile in to draw them off an objective, or out of cover, then use your move to stay far enough away to avoid combat. Of course he is an ork, and if there is a weakened infantry unit that doesn't have a power weapon in it, you can assault those to try to get the kill point. It is always good to kick-em when their down, so rather than let that last lone trooper contest an objective, go ahead and use the baron to take him out.

Another caveat to add; is never charge a dreadnought. Even though they are technically a vehicle, they will strike first and kill your Baron every time. Use the Baron to get behind them and shoot them in the rear armor, just stay out of combat with them.

In conclusion, it is my (not so) humble opinion that the Green Baron is the best anti tank unit the orks have. He is cheap compared to other anti armor the orks have, and is fast. Not to mention that he will be a top target priority to your opponent once you have used the Green Baron for Effect. In this case you are looking at how many points would you pay to not have your army shot at first turn? How about 70 points, is that worth it? The threat of the Green Baron will make your opponents shoot at him until he is dead, instead of the rest of your army. This allows the rest of your army to get close and personal, just how we like it.

[Azonalanthious]

So...

First, I would argue that the green torpedo warboss build is another one-ork unit that can do well, so the kopta isn't quite alone in that category. 

The army specific stuff I mostly agree with, with a few little caveats: Tau broadsides are armor 2+ so I would argue that he is actually a better XV8 killer, with their 3+ which the rokkits will ignore, then a broadside killer.  Mind -- entangling the broadsides in close combat can be a more important goal, so is often worth doing all the same, but in pure killyness terms...  And against necrons, he can't glance the monolith to death because monolith's can't BE glanced to death -- the weapon destroyeds just keep giving it -1 to that one gun.  Never gets bumped up to wrecked, nor takes out their big crystal for the gating/whip.

Finally, while I like the tactica as a whole, I think you are glossing over his downsides a bit.  From what you wrote it sounds like he makes hits left and right -- in fact this 'crack shot' has a ~55% hit rate.  Pretty much a coin flip.  And while the buzzsaw is nice, he isn't a nob, but a boy.  So his buzzsaw is the weakest pk in our entire army, at S6 base/7 on the charge.  Against infantry other then MCs, that won't matter much.  When hunting vehicles, which is arguably his main role, it matters though.  7 on the charge vs a nobz 9 goes from auto-glance/pen to having a 33% chance of whiffing even when he auto-hits.  And while you kinda touched on this, the simple fact is that to do WELL, the Baron pretty much needs to be ignored (in which case he can do very well, but that's true of many units) -- other then that, its pretty much down to luck if he gets a chance to make his points back or not.  Though, the 'value' of him not being ignored and being the focus of a great deal of shooting is enough in his own right that yes, that is sometimes worth his points all by itself.

[AXEBLADE]

First, I would argue that the green torpedo warboss build is another one-ork unit that can do well, so the kopta isn't quite alone in that category. 

Except that he needs a mob to hide in so he doesn't get killed before he launches

The army specific stuff I mostly agree with, with a few little caveats: Tau broadsides are armor 2+ so I would argue that he is actually a better XV8 killer, with their 3+ which the rokkits will ignore, then a broadside killer.

I have to agree with this. As someone who doesn't play speed freaks the broadsides are easy to catch while the XV8's can be really annoying to catch (and are generally more damaging to my army due to their weapons)

And while the buzzsaw is nice, he isn't a nob, but a boy.  So his buzzsaw is the weakest pk in our entire army, at S6 base/7 on the charge.  Against infantry other then MCs, that won't matter much.

Hence the advice to not charge into infantry

I will have to try out the green baron some time. Normally I use warbuggies with rokkits.

[Azonalanthious]

And while the buzzsaw is nice, he isn't a nob, but a boy.  So his buzzsaw is the weakest pk in our entire army, at S6 base/7 on the charge.  Against infantry other then MCs, that won't matter much.

Hence the advice to not charge into infantry

*scratches head* um... I said that the point I was making WON'T matter against most infantry (it will against MCs and some ICs who could be inta-killed with a regular nob...).  So the advice not to charge into infantry has no bearing.  But a Str 7 buzzsaw is exactly the same as a Str 9 power klaw to a regular space marine.  The point I was making is that that Str 7 makes a noticable difference in pen rates against armor when compared to a Str 9 nob pk, though its far easy to get into position to attempt to pen. (and hopefully attempt with them moving, so auto-hit).

[adamscurr]

I find the green baron to be very successful...  I can't tell you how many tanks I've killed round 1...  I think the alpha strike potential hasnot been mentioned...  I find the best use of the green baron is as a suicide unit...  If I get first turn, I turboboost him for a scout move, then assault a tank during my first turn...  He has a range of 42 inches with this move so nothing is really out of his reach...  If it is armor 10 on the rear, he has a good chance to pop it as he autohits the first round...

Adam

[angel of death 007]

I have had very mixed result with the green baron.  Most set ups guard their prize artillary with something making it very hard to alpha strike in a scout move.   Thus forcing you to outflank as you absolutely don't want that green baron out in the field all alone before he gets a chance to assault. 

Some strong points to consider as well
- outflanking he potentially has a 33% chance or 1 in 3 shot of coming in on the wrong side of the board and depending on what turn he comes in this could make him effectively useless.

-well he is great to use against armor much has to be said against using him to take on armor that has moved. (especially fast)  He doesn't pack a lot of hits so stationary targets are almost a must.

-holofields can really ruin your day when assaulting with anything.  Low hits and the ability to take the least desireable result means that most tanks with holofields will probably go unscathed. 

-another point to remember is that he does have a powerfist equiliant and WILL strike last.  Meaning that dreads WILL strike before you and one wound will ID you.  Your rokkits are not that reliable to shoot and assault a dread statistically and walk away with a result better than a dead green baron. 

[SKEETERGOD]

Thanks for all the input so far.

I added a little blurb about the green torpedo.
I added a bit about alpha strike.
I modified the bit about the monolith.
I added more on the outflank.
I added a bit on the holo fields.
I added crisis suit to the broadside bit.
I changed the wording on the twin link rockits so that he is no longer a crack shot, just a good shot.
I added in to not take on a dreadnought in CC.

So take a second gander and let me know if there is anything else. While your there, how is the format? Spelling? Context? Word usage? and any other thing you might spot.

Again, thank you all.

[Killing Time]

You cannot turbo boost during your scout move.
This is specified in the USR entry for Scouts.

EDIT: And Eldar Holofields DO work in assault.
I think you're confusing them with the Wave Serpent energy field, which doesn't.

[SKEETERGOD]

You cannot turbo boost during your scout move.
This is specified in the USR entry for Scouts.

I must disagree with you, in that the death copta is a jet bike, and as such jet bikes can make a turbo boost move at any time as part of its movement. The death copta also has scout, and so before first turn make make a normal move, that can be a turbo boost move if it so chooses, as long as it stays at least 12" away from the enemy at the end of its move.

Looking at page 76 of the rule book, there is nothing that prohibits a turbo boost move during the scout move, as long as the unit that uses turbo boost has that ability. Note under the scout move entry "this is done exactly as in their movement phase", as a death copta can turbo during its movement phase, it can turbo during its scout move.

[Killing Time]

"This is done exactly as in their Movement phase, except that units of Bikes may not use their turboboosters special ability for their Scout move."

[The Gretchin]

Doesnt it mean Bike-types and not Jetbike-types

[angel of death 007]

I must disagree with you, in that the death copta is a jet bike, and as such jet bikes can make a turbo boost move at any time as part of its movement. The death copta also has scout, and so before first turn make make a normal move, that can be a turbo boost move if it so chooses, as long as it stays at least 12" away from the enemy at the end of its move.

Looking at page 76 of the rule book, there is nothing that prohibits a turbo boost move during the scout move, as long as the unit that uses turbo boost has that ability. Note under the scout move entry "this is done exactly as in their movement phase", as a death copta can turbo during its movement phase, it can turbo during its scout move.

I thought in your scout move that you had to remain 18" away if you are in sight of an enemy.   12" if you are out of sight?  Doesn't that still apply to scout moves?  If it doesn't then I have been playing it wrong and might need to start using mine more often. 

Going to have to agree with Skeetergod on this one.  I have never heard anything that limits a jetbikes movement even scout moves. 

[SKEETERGOD]

"This is done exactly as in their Movement phase, except that units of Bikes may not use their turboboosters special ability for their Scout move."

I looked in both my soft copy and hard copy of the main rule book, and checked the FAQ for both orks and the the main rule book, I do not see where your "quote" comes from.

Page 76, of the Games Workshop 40k rule book, the scout entry says, and I will type the entry here. Since this is a quote of a written source it comes under the fair use law and is not a copyright violation.

"Scouts are used to reconnoitre ahead and are always in the vanguard of the army. To represent this, after both sides have deployed (including infiltrators), but before the first player begins his first turn, any scouts may make a normal move. This is done exactly as in their Movement phase, except that during this move, scouts must remain more than 12"away from any enemy."

Again: There is nothing in the book that prohibits a turbo move during the scout move, and in the FAQ on page 5; it does in fact say that they can turbo boost during the scout move.
(3rd question down on the right side column.)
http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m1620222a_40k_Rulebook_version_1_2.pdf

So, sir, you are incorrect, and I request you recind your last post.

Edit, in response to your edit: As for the holo field, yep, your right, I will fix that now.

[Dartron]

The one thing you want to avoid is charging the baron into combat with infantry. He is not a CC expert, as a matter of fact he is not even good at it. Charging into infantry will only get the baron killed.

This part of the tactica I don't agree with. While he is probably best used against vulnerable infantry in an Alpha Strike type situation he can do well against certain types of small infantry units. It's already been touched on that against Tau you can use him to effectively beat Crisis Suits in combat. Any other units you can think of?

Against armies like IG you can actually manage to destroy a Chimera and assault the occupants inside... and win! Besides, if your options come down to being stuck out in the open for your opponent's shooting phase or charging into a smallish infantry unit there's a good chance you can actually win!

Generally, if the unit is going to get 10-12 S3 attacks (IG infantry squads, Command Squads, Battle Psyker Squads, Heavy Weapon Squads, pretty much anything IG that isn't blobbed up, Dark Eldar Warriors, Aspect Warriors), or 5-6 S4 attacks (Marine Combat Squads with Heavy Weapons) you can comfortably charge the Baron into these units and sometimes come out on top, just try to avoid power weapons if you can. If you break them the turn you charge in, great! If you're tied up in combat with them for another turn even better because you can't be shot. If the Baron lasts until the end of your opponent's turn you have another chance to beat them in combat or use the rarely used Hit and Run ability of the Baron. This often overlooked and, admittedly, often failed ability can be very useful for giving you Baron free movement at the end of your opponents CC phase, getting you closer to juicy armored units or other soft, but vital small infantry squads. It can also be a useful way to get closer to the opposite board edge if you failed to get your right out-flanking side.

Those are just some of my experiences with Baron.

[Killing Time]

I do rescind my statement.
I've just looked in my hardback copy and it's not there.

The previous quote came from a pre-release pdf that I keep for quick ref on my work computer, but it's not the same text as the final release, as I have just discovered.
I wonder how much else is different.

[SKEETERGOD]

Thanks for all the comments so far.

Ok, I added in some about picking on weakened infantry without power weapons, and fixed the part about holo-fields.

Is there anything else I should add/delete/fix before I start the submission process?

Thanks for all your help.

[Kogtoof]

I had a deffkota with twin linked big shootas, buzzsaw, and biggbomm do very well. in one game he lost one wound on the first turn and proceeded to wipe out a squad of Blood Angels, a rhino, and Mephiston. In my army I have him with a KMB but same other upgrades, I found them to be very useful and entertaining.

[angel of death 007]

Skeetergod, I must apologize in advance as I don't want to thread jack ya, but I refuse to let another tactica go up without pics.  It has been one thing that has bothered me for awhile as we have a lot of great tactica's out there but no one is using any pics.  Sorry I guess I am still on the school mode where presentations without out pics don't get as much attention as those that do.  And I know my green baron isn't the best out there, he is better than no green baron.

[SKEETERGOD]

Well then, with your permission I will add the pictures to the tactica and give you the credit as the photographer. Thanks.

So, anything else I need to do before submitting this as an article?

I have put this on the ork project board HERE Soon it will be an article, and an another part of the bootcamp.