Topic: How do to equip the boyz: Slugga or Shoota?

[spotaflint33]

After I moved I've finally been able to restart work on my Ork army and get my Ork sprues from my parents house.  I've been cranking out lists by the tens due to the nature of my job (I'm a substitute teacher so I just sit there and read most of the time), but I came up with a conundrum, which is are shoota boyz worth it?  I have more then enough shootas to build a 20 strong unit or into a 16 strong unit (but would prefer the 20 as it gets 2 big shootas or rokkits).  Does anyone use Shoota boyz or is it pure slugga as a prefrence? 

I do have other units I'm working on and mixing old and new bits so I do have other stuff to work with, I am just wondering which of the two is better and what the community thinks of them. 

[WisdomLS]

An eresting question, I use both depending on thee size of the unit and if it's transported or not.

With 30 strong boyz slogging up the field I like the shootas. They have an ok range and 60 shots is a danger to anything, when you charge you still get 90 attacks which is anought to win most fights. I like this unit with 3 big shootas as well.

I don't like 20 on foot but if I did they'd have sluggas as they don't quite have the numbers to overwelm in cc without them. I usually field this size unit in a wagon, often with a big mek and when used as such I like shootas all the way, the fact you can trace LOS from the vehicle coupled with the fact that I often don't want to get out make them an exellent choice.

I use 10-12 boyz mounted in trukks and always have them as sluggas. They are usualy charging around at 18" or fleeting for a second turn charge so wouldn't get to use the ranged attack, plus they need the extra weapon with such small numbers.

Another reason that people use sluggas alot is that most people have a load of AoBR boyz as they are cheap and not half bad.

[IGBunker (-Hela - Finnail-)]

I personly like shoota boyz because they can pore a stupid amount of fire out and they can mop up any remaining models in cc. a 30 man mob with 3 big shootas and 27 shootas can pour out 9 str 5 shots and 54 str 4 shots. VS a 10 man tac unit on average 3 big shoota shots will hit and 20 shoota shots will hit resulting in 2 big shoota wounds and 10 shoota wounds. in total you may drop 4-5 marines total. when you charge youve now got what 87 normal attacks and 3 klaw attacks. assume you loose three orks the total goes down to 78 and 3. the klaw will drop 2 marines and the shoota ladz will drop apx 6. That means no more marine squad.

In my army ive got 130 sluggas and only 35 shootas but thats mainly cause ive picked up alot of AoBR sets  off ebay. i want to get atleast 60 shoota boys. In most games id run 4 boyz mobs of 30. two being shootas, two being sluggas.

[OD from TV]

Shoota v. Slugga, the immortal question.

Lets look at the pros of Shootas...

• They have some medium range fire support
• With 17 Shootas and 2 Big Shootas at least something is going to hit (assuming a unit of 20 with a Pk bosspole Nob and 2 Big Shootas)
• Shooting up a Squad before an assault often times tips the assault in your favor, especially against horde units like Termagaunts
• Shoota Boyz make great home objective holders

Then Sluggas...

• Extra attack because of their equipment
• Instead of shooting run to close the gap and get into an assault quicker
• AoBR Orks are all Slugga and can be picked up with relative ease

All that being said when I go footslogger I tend to use a balance of 2:1 or 3:1 Slugga to Shoota, lately its been 4 Units of Slugga and 2 units of Shootas.
So yes people do use Shootas, I being one of them.  As such I don't advice bringing the Rokkits along, as if a Shoota Mob fires at a tank the majority of your shots are completely wasted (unless its AV 10, and even then most of those shots will be deflected off of the armor).

Peace
~OD

[hinga]

im going for a 50 50 approach 3 units of 3x30 shoota's and 3 units of 3x30 sluggas all pushing forward at the same time letting loose barage of fire then when close enough sluggas rush in an chop em up.. but im a player who chops the head off the demon before i go 4 the antz so everything will be concentrated at all there hq's and elites..

[AXEBLADE]

I used to run all slugga boyz however I have since started using more shoota boyz.

My main reason is that one of my opponents plays a CSM foot beserker list (don't laugh he has fun with it) and so our games essentially boiled down to who can get the charge (normally me with the power of the waaagh!).
Since switching to shoota boyz I now move foward until in shooting range and then retreat for a turn or 2 (depending on his run moves) and get a few more (120) shots off before moving foward and charging. (he is getting annoyed with this tactik

Against other army lists I find that my shooting is suprisingly effective and that the extra range is helpful against mobile shooting units who don't want to get into combat.

Another consideration is obviously what else is in the list. An example is that if you are using a Kan Wall type list then if your Kanz have ranged weapons then they will be shooting them, as you want the boyz behind the kanz you can't really run them which negates and advantage of using slugga boyz.

In my lists I use a 2:1 ratio of shootas to sluggas with my foot orks and pure slugga boyz in my trukks (though I will be trying out the drive by boyz at some point). My 1500pt list contains 2 full mobz of shoota boyz on foot (run behind some kanz) and 2 full slugga trukk boyz mobz.
My 2K list includes a mob of slugga boyz on foot to add CC punch to the foot section.

[Azonalanthious]

While I agree with everything that has been said so far, I did want to point out one downside of shootas that hasn't been mentioned - the enemy gets to pick which models are removed from shooting casualties.  Since you will have more casualties from shootas then sluggas, this means more models removed.  And a canny foe may well remove them in such a way that your boyz can't assault.  And be they slugga or shoota, your boyz WANT to assault, making this very frustrating -- speaking from experience here.

Anywho, just wanted to point that out, but I do generally agree that shootas have a definate use and place in orky lists.

[spotaflint33]

Thanks for the responses, I will be looking at building one of my units into a shoota unit.  I'm working with the 3rd Edition Battleforce, AoBR, 2 Boyz boxes, 1 Loota, and 1 Storm Boyz Box.  As long as there isn't an issue with the old Warbikers I don't think I will have too much of an issue.  I'm doing the math to see if I should add the Shootas to a unit I haven't bought yet, or use the existing boxes.  Except for the Bikers and half the AoBR stuff along with 4 Slugga Boyz nothing is built yet.  Are big shootas still the prefered Weapon Upgrade?  I'm thinking about dropping a rokkit launcher from my one Slugga Boyz Unit due to arm and backpack issues.  Or would there be no issue with having a rokkit launcha without the back pack? 

[MagicJuggler]

I run just enough Boyz (2 units of 15 in 2000 PTA if you must ask) for objective holding/midfielding while the rest of the army does most of the heavy lifting. They're adequate, but not great when it comes time to shoot stuff though they threaten the utility of small squads, and while they have a low damage average, lots of dice means a high potential to beat the odds (a fun example being when Da Goff Brigade managed to kill a Tzeentchian Daemon Prince with a well-synchronized fire drill.)

[IGBunker (-Hela - Finnail-)]

i prefer having big shootas in my units cause the chance of hitting and doing damage is much better. Ill likely have one slugga mob with rokkits as a tank hunting unit but only because ive already got a few pre assembed rokkit models from ebay.

As per the backpack issue, its no big deal. the backpack is just there for looks. the rokkit is the only importent thing.

[WisdomLS]

I think rokkits in boyz squads are just a waste of points, I'd use the rokkit boyz as tankbustaz if you have enough of them.
Also referancing the models you have to choose from, if you have the loota/burna box I found it quite easy to chop an arm off of a black reach boy to stick on a burna or deff gun thus getting double use out of the kit.

[Spectral Arbor]

It's been a while since I played Orks, but I always liked shootas over sluggas. On the charge, I lose one attack,and maybe one more the round after.  With shootas, for two or three turns before that, I get 4 to 6 more shooting attacks.

I like having Rokkit Launchas. In a shoota unit, a pair of Big Shootas only adds 2/3 of a hit on average, and it's still an anti-infantry weapon, albeit at better strength.

Rokkits give you a chance to pop transports, if there are no infantry to shoot. Sure, the odds of even hitting aren't that great, but it gives the boys something to shoot at if nothing else is in range. The game seems to be shifting towards a more mechanized game, so having the option to try to pop a transport at range seems like the better option to me.

[MagicJuggler]

There are very few scenarios where when facing a purely mechanized army, I would want the Boyz to stand to fire Rokkits (as the other options are *way* more cost-efficient). Either they'll be running, or they'll be Going to Ground, while doing their part to make disembarking an unfavorable option for enemy units. This assumes they aren't zipping at full speed in a Battlewagon for the first turn, when they cannot fire.

That, and the cost of using Boyz with rokkits is laughably inefficient. At a minimum investment of 70 points per Rokkit (before you consider the Klawnob that tends to eat additional points), as well as the opportunity cost of not being able to Run if you use said Rokkits...As it stands, the only reason to run Rokkit Launchas in a Boyz Mob is if you're using Boyz for screening duty against armored opponents, as it gives you a non-Nob chance at Death or Glory. Considering that since one cannot even Tank Shock Kans or other vehicles out of the way, and they get a better cover bonus from a KFF Mek, I end up asking "What's the Point?"

The Rokkit Boy is potential conversion material for Warbuggies though. Or you could have him dangle from a wire on a Deffkopta.

[Spectral Arbor]

Well, the Rokitt boy isn't a dedicated AT choice, it's more of a "Hmm... nothing else to shoot at, I wish I could pop that Rhino..." kind of selection. And if I recall, a rockitt doesn't require that you "stand" to shoot it, you can shoot it on the move.

Your key options are still to move up and shoot at a squad of infantry, but for a cheap points cost, you also gain the option of shooting at a vehicle.

[MagicJuggler]

The thing is I consider it not cheap for what you are getting, or are giving up. If Orks had the option to split fire in a manner that their Rokkits could shoot a second vehicle while the Shoota Boyz shot a nearby infantry unit, could Fire on the Run, or there was a better ratio of special weapons to Boyz (1 in 5 Boyz may take a Big Shoota or Rokkit Launcha), I would consider the option.

-For the cost of adding another 10 Boyz+Rokkit to a mob, I can purchase a squad of 2 Warbuggies with Rokkits, effectively tripling the AT firepower, drawing firepower away from the Troops, and providing screening and sacrificial move-blocking that I would otherwise not have.
-For the cost of 20 or so Boyz+2 Rokkits, I can pick up 3 Rokkit Kanz, which also provide a better ratio of anti-tank firepower, a better proliferation of Powerklaws, and require heavy weapons to reliably destroy.

As it stands, Boyz are predominantly anti-infantry; their Rokkits cost too much relative to other options to make semi-reliable, while also taking up a lot more space in the process. One or two medium-sized shoota boyz is good for making cheap objective-holders, secondary assault sweepers, or light sniper duty, and that's about that really.

[Spectral Arbor]

I believe you may be missing my intention. The Rokkits aren't being bought because they're going to down a transport. They're being bought because it adds flexibility to the unit.

You're already going to buy Boyz, and putting two rokkit launchas into the squad doesn't really detract from their infantry shooting abilities... you're only losing out on 5 shootas, trading in two and then 3 more you could have purchased.

You can't buy one buggy for the price of two rokkit launchas, so if the boyz have no infantry to shoot, and no infantry to assault, they can take a couple of pot shots at a transport and maybe open it up, so that the boyz will have something to shoot or assault next turn. They're also handy to fire at MEQ, not that the odds of hitting are great, but it's not like they're a waste or anything.

Two Rokkits don't make a dedicated AT unit, you just have the option, should nothing else be available. It's not like you're buying the boyz so you can field the rokkits, you're buying the rokkits because you already have the boyz, and Big Shootas don't really add anything to the squad, that buying more boyz wouldn't do better.