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Author Topic: Was the Eldar codex made for 5th edition?  (Read 47254 times)

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Offline ManiacMatt

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Re: Was the Eldar codex made for 5th edition?
« Reply #420 on: December 8, 2008, 11:02:34 PM »
If you've already got the fire dragons, you might as well drop the spears, so they get an extra attack in close combat, and an extra chance each to take out a tank if they can get close enough to it, but then again, the locks aren't a full 10 strong, only 5, so they may not be in combat as much either, so it is a tough call.  Best bet would be try it out and see what happens, and let us know so we can try/learn from it. :D

Offline Gutstikk

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Re: Was the Eldar codex made for 5th edition?
« Reply #421 on: December 9, 2008, 09:42:30 AM »
Singing spears are better than fusion guns vs tanks at range >6, no question. Singing spears also tend to be quite good vs Monstrous Creatures as they wound higher toughness levels with greater frequency. Unsupported it is a unit you can afford to discard - I'm used to fielding 4 though, which will generally require 6 wounds to bring down. Their greatest asset here is that they can tie up something you'd rather not deal with just by deploying in its way.

More importantly, I've been getting more "shooty" in my approach, and it is imperative that my aggressive units not get caught in close combat with the enemy for a long time. Once this happens my shooting units have no targets and their firepower goes wasted. A seer council getting gnarled in combat by several enemy units at once gives all those units a springboard by which to get closer to my lines, and if fortuned is likely to merely restrict my own capability to shoot.

The units I want to make resilient are my troops choices. Other units merely have to kill stuff as dead as possible, as quickly as possible.

Also, 1 heavy flamer != 4 heavy flamers, especially when the target is doomed. There is no comparison. And for me, non-transports are not too big a threat because they are easy enough to silence; it's far harder to keep a vehicle from moving and the stuff inside it is almost always a bigger threat. Killing infantry is therefore far more important.

Fire dragons are good and have their place in a list, but "suicide" units, when used properly, can change the whole course of a game. In 5th I pretty much always plan for one or two units that are disposable in an army list. Think of it this way, everyone is trying to cut back on their KPs but few units outside of marines have the ability to split their fire [marines do so with combat squads, but this also inflates their KP count]. This means an enemy army will have units that can put a massive hurt on a single target a turn, maybe 5-6 such units plus a few others. The problem is that unit's gonna dump the same amount of power into a ten man warlock squad plus eldrad plus yriel as it will to 3 lowly warlocks. And that's it for their turn.

Sure, the uber council, wraithguard, and etc may still be standing afterwards, generally to get assaulted. And then on my turn my guns sit idle while the enemy force consisting of 4 nob biker teams finishes my squad off, and on his turn he now has free access to everything.

Instead, I put something up front that's damn well gonna break, and hope it does. And my guns are staring the enemy in the face as soon as they break down my wall.

Keep in mind though, this is in reference to shooting-oriented lists, which I'm switching over to because honsetly it's too hard to win the combat game reliably. I keep one or two such squads for the late game if possible, and otherwise it's scoring and shooting.

Offline Lazarus

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Re: Was the Eldar codex made for 5th edition?
« Reply #422 on: December 9, 2008, 09:49:12 AM »
Posted by: Gutstikk

Quote
Singing spears are better than fusion guns vs tanks at range >6, no question.

That entirely depends on what tank you are shooting with them. Don't forget the fusion gns are AP1 and will actually have a better chance of destroying the tank. In 5th, when using dragons I now give them tankhunters if I'm hunting armour....this basically makes them universally better than the spears with the exception of the monolith etc.

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Offline Chaplain Swordwind

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Re: Was the Eldar codex made for 5th edition?
« Reply #423 on: December 9, 2008, 10:41:15 AM »
My question is, where is this squad of 3 Warlocks coming from?  The codex says you can by a squad for each Farseer in the army, but that they are a single HQ choice?  Are you guys simply pulling the Farseer out of the squad and using him as an IC (or perhaps joining him with another unit)?
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Offline tzeentchling

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Re: Was the Eldar codex made for 5th edition?
« Reply #424 on: December 9, 2008, 10:47:38 AM »
The warlocks aren't a retinue squad for the Farseer.  It's a separate HQ unit that doesn't take up an HQ slot.  Hence they can operate completely independent from the Farseer if they want.
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Offline shahryar

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Re: Was the Eldar codex made for 5th edition?
« Reply #425 on: December 9, 2008, 05:29:27 PM »
can the warlocks join a group?

okay so I probably already know the answer to this one as no but I figured I could ask. hah

Offline Starrakatt

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Re: Was the Eldar codex made for 5th edition?
« Reply #426 on: December 9, 2008, 06:18:43 PM »
I am not sure I follow you here Shahryar, but Warlocks can either be A) Taken as a squad of their own, prerequisite that you buy a Farseer first (both counting as a single HQ choice) or B) As individual model upgrades for some units.

It is all in the Codex, really. ;)

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Offline shahryar

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Re: Was the Eldar codex made for 5th edition?
« Reply #427 on: December 9, 2008, 07:08:55 PM »
like I said it's something I already knew the answer to just felt like answering just in case. because I always though they were a retinue as in farseer had to stay with them and was just proven wrong now. So I though wouldn't it be cool if I stuck 3 warlocks in with my scorpions? Enhance conceal and embolden on scorps would be great haha. But alas.

Offline Straker

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Re: Was the Eldar codex made for 5th edition?
« Reply #428 on: December 10, 2008, 01:15:37 PM »
While we are on this subject though, can we start thinking of new tricks we may have but don't realize? It feels like we have spent months and 22 pages on a topic and still haven't produced much...

As for another mini-council idea, how about giving them all spears and a farseer in a falcon and the farseer has Eldritch Storm (can help a lot with tank hunting...)? Coupled with doom and a bunch of destructors, sounds fairly pricey but something that when fire dragons are also on the board helps cover all areas...Or, better yet, having 2 mini councils. One with destructors and doom, and another with all spears and ES??

What about something like 10 Harlequins or Striking Scorpions in a Wave Serpent? Just because they are amazing footslogging units does not mean they need to be left out in mech...I just feel so limited when making lists nowadays, and they all feel the same: start with a seer council, then add stormies and fire dragons, then add heavy support. Is there help to break this mold? I'm trying to at least get back into DAs, pathfinders, and warp spiders, but it's hard.

I like Gut's thread on the falcon, are there other things we maybe have forgotten about? How about a way to use warp spiders properly with hard mech, has it been done successfully?
« Last Edit: December 10, 2008, 01:43:43 PM by Straker »

Offline Lazarus

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Re: Was the Eldar codex made for 5th edition?
« Reply #429 on: December 10, 2008, 02:08:12 PM »
Posted by: Straker

Quote
I just feel so limited when making lists nowadays, and they all feel the same: start with a seer council, then add stormies and fire dragons, then add heavy support. Is there help to break this mold?


Try a "reserves" style list. Dual Autarchs (one can be Yriel) and mostly mech and it's been doing pretty well for me. Hawks, spiders or outflanking units etc.

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Offline shahryar

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Re: Was the Eldar codex made for 5th edition?
« Reply #430 on: December 10, 2008, 02:14:19 PM »
Well not sure how all around good this is but I remember hearing one odd hawk DA combo.

basically you stick the hawks behind the dire avengers both firing at the same target and when the target gets close enough to assault you have the hawks fly behind the enemy both open fire and then both assault from opposite sides.

Basically a new variation on the hammer and the anvil strategy.

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Re: Was the Eldar codex made for 5th edition?
« Reply #431 on: December 10, 2008, 02:15:27 PM »
I ran a JB Council, Spears, JB's, Vypers and Fireprisms with pretty good success... as it had an Autarch on JB as well, so Reserve options did surface, and its speed was ludicris... The biggst issue I found was the Terrain and lack of Cover for my JB's... But the local GW in my area actually re-did about 50% of its terrain to suit 5th Ed better, so that list might get resurrected.

Also the Craptastic lists that I tried out were a seriously blast and did well enough ~ Win and two Draws (one on Vassal vs Starky).... (Units not often used, such as Hawks, Baharroth, etc)...

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Offline farseermacha07

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Re: Was the Eldar codex made for 5th edition?
« Reply #432 on: June 14, 2010, 02:54:12 PM »
Simple, just bring back craftworld eldar, that catered for all craftworlds needs :D
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Offline Straker

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Re: Was the Eldar codex made for 5th edition?
« Reply #433 on: June 14, 2010, 03:03:26 PM »
Lol talk about grave digging ;)

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Re: Was the Eldar codex made for 5th edition?
« Reply #434 on: June 14, 2010, 04:03:08 PM »
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