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Author Topic: Damnatus - German fan film project stopped by GW!  (Read 18154 times)

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Offline Rasmus

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Re: Damnatus - German fan film project stopped by GW!
« Reply #20 on: July 11, 2007, 08:39:18 AM »
I don't think that anything like an e-mail campaign would do much over this, as it did nothing over the prices.
If you want things to change; vote with your wallet. Stop buying. Don't just say you will, do it. I have not given GW any of my money since 1998.

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Offline Plague Tower of Nurgle

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Re: Damnatus - German fan film project stopped by GW!
« Reply #21 on: July 11, 2007, 08:39:33 AM »
It's kind of sad the way GW gets to dictate everything to us. It's almost like we are drug addicts, and they have a mononoply on drugs...

well seeing as they own the IP rights to everything WHFB, 40k ..etc, they can do whatever they want without our input. they dont have to make updates or faqs or anything, they do because it makes them more money.
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Offline Amberley Vail

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Re: Damnatus - German fan film project stopped by GW!
« Reply #22 on: July 11, 2007, 08:41:24 AM »
yeah, but I love warhammer. like I said, its an addiction. and as far as I know they don't have therapy for WH addiction yet.

back on topic, these guys who made the movie at least deserve something for all their efforts....

Offline Sir Sam Vimes

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Re: Damnatus - German fan film project stopped by GW!
« Reply #23 on: July 11, 2007, 08:46:03 AM »
I think this has alot of similarities with the whining about iPods and Apple.

Give GW some rivals, and the prices will fall. Golden Rule of Capitalism.

But then again, I don't want to play anything else than 40k, don't know about you guys...

EDIT: ok, coming back on topic...
« Last Edit: July 11, 2007, 08:47:30 AM by His Grace the Duke of Ankh, Commander Sir Sam Vimes »

Offline f.desrochers

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Re: Damnatus - German fan film project stopped by GW!
« Reply #24 on: July 11, 2007, 08:47:20 AM »
Quote
One wonders how long it will take for GW to forbid fan art (as in drawings) and fluff writing aswell...

It is doubtful it ever would. Most fan art and fan fiction are usually published on a web-based forum that make clear the intent that intellectual property is still solely the right of GW and are free forums. There is no profit or intent to make profit from them. If one tried to publish a clearly GW-based fan art (ie. a Bloodthirster and Marneus Calgar slugging it out) or fan fiction (say, something about Dark Angels hunt for the Fallen), the publishers would be on the block before GW; rightly so as well. Additionally, once on the web, it isn't eligible by most publishers for official release thereafter.

Having no deep understanding of German or EU intellectual property rights, I understand enough about EU free-movement policies and economics to accept GW's position here. Yes, it sucks for the guys who put the time, effort and one assumes money into this project. Since the boundaries between German law and EU law may be blurred, this may have instigated the action. I have no idea whether moving to France or another country would make any difference; EU policy may be influencing this as well.

<shrug> Disappointing, yes. Understandable, grudgingly so. This of course is one of the reasons that many Canadian patents and registrations are done using the US system rather than the Canadian system - it is more litigant and therefore has more teeth. This may be the fear GW has. Once it's out there, you can't bring it back.

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Offline Sir Sam Vimes

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Re: Damnatus - German fan film project stopped by GW!
« Reply #25 on: July 11, 2007, 09:01:57 AM »
Quote
One wonders how long it will take for GW to forbid fan art (as in drawings) and fluff writing aswell...

It is doubtful it ever would. Most fan art and fan fiction are usually published on a web-based forum that make clear the intent that intellectual property is still solely the right of GW and are free forums. There is no profit or intent to make profit from them. If one tried to publish a clearly GW-based fan art (ie. a Bloodthirster and Marneus Calgar slugging it out) or fan fiction (say, something about Dark Angels hunt for the Fallen), the publishers would be on the block before GW; rightly so as well. Additionally, once on the web, it isn't eligible by most publishers for official release thereafter.

Yes, but were to draw the line? If Damnatus would be made entirely for a fansite, would GW rant about it?

And if were to do a music video, with pictures of models and DoW-music in the background, and then upload it on YouTube, while the Damnatus-crew made a B-movie that would be played only in some local theathre in Fulda, who would GW take action against? The Damnatus project, right, because it's official, and I'm just an amateur.

But if my video was to be seen by 12 854 persons, and the B-movie by 2 356, who would GW use their lawyers against then?

Wow, that was alot of questions... but I hope you get my point.

Offline Moonsinger

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Re: Damnatus - German fan film project stopped by GW!
« Reply #26 on: July 11, 2007, 09:05:01 AM »
Because GW want, more or less, everything that concern the hobby to be in their controll. Look on this site for instance, we got some Copyright rules about posting GW rules/point/stats/etc here just so they wont bother us, which means they are a part of the controll indirectly

I would throw the movie up on the web, prolly some torrent site.

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« Last Edit: July 11, 2007, 09:07:32 AM by Moonsinger »
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Offline Amberley Vail

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Re: Damnatus - German fan film project stopped by GW!
« Reply #27 on: July 11, 2007, 09:14:42 AM »
http://cristgaming.com/pirate.swf? xD

btw, are you advocating illegal activity? are we allowed to do that? if so, I'm totally for releasing it and if GW sues, tell them a copy of the film was 'stolen' and it's not their fault everyone has seen it.

Offline Sir Sam Vimes

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Re: Damnatus - German fan film project stopped by GW!
« Reply #28 on: July 11, 2007, 09:16:08 AM »
You'll get *cough*banned*cough*

Offline Amberley Vail

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Re: Damnatus - German fan film project stopped by GW!
« Reply #29 on: July 11, 2007, 09:18:52 AM »
for advocating illegal activity? oh, in that case, totally disregard my last comment. we definitely should not get illegal copies of the film, and definitely should never commit copywright violations.

*cough*

Offline Rasmus

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Re: Damnatus - German fan film project stopped by GW!
« Reply #30 on: July 11, 2007, 09:23:09 AM »
Indeed. No illegal copies, links to such or encouragements to that effect here. They would not sue you - they would just shut the forum down. Bad idea.

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Offline Fury

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Re: Damnatus - German fan film project stopped by GW!
« Reply #31 on: July 11, 2007, 09:33:31 AM »
Would this policy include other fan film projects?

My thought is the kids making stop motion movies with their figures on YouTube or whatever.

According to that very poorly worded statement from GW, any "intellectual property" i.e. models would be unable to be used in these kind of projects as well.

A suspicion I have is they have already struck a deal with *** for exclusive film rights...and don't want anybody messing up that deal with a well made fan movie. That clause specifically mentions computer games...Hmm. No one outside of GW HQ would be able to verify that though, since any contract would be a trade secret.

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Offline Rasmus

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Re: Damnatus - German fan film project stopped by GW!
« Reply #32 on: July 11, 2007, 09:38:47 AM »
1. Yes, it would involve further moveis as well.

2. They have, a few times, but it has messed up and misfired, and failed. I am sure they have more in the works that can fail in the same way.

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Offline ghostwalker

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Re: Damnatus - German fan film project stopped by GW!
« Reply #33 on: July 11, 2007, 09:41:08 AM »
I hope and think that if both GW na d the damnatus crew work together then this film can be put out. If damnatus all gw to put it under their copywrite and ip protection then it remains the  'property of GW' whilst allowing the damnatus film to still be released.

This may be the way forward. GW allow use of the IP as long as it still remains copywrited to them.
I suppose at the end of the day GW have put a lot of money and effort into creating their universe and as such want to ensure it remains their universe and does not escape to be ripped off by every tom dick and harry.

But if gw does have plans for its own films then lets hope they go ahead with them..as the games so far have been great.

Offline Locarno

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Re: Damnatus - German fan film project stopped by GW!
« Reply #34 on: July 11, 2007, 10:44:26 AM »
Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!


I shall reserve judgement (and acidic hatred and bile) until (if) I find out what said IP issues are.

That's not to say, however, that this decision doesn't leave me with the knee-jerk reaction of wanting to type obscenities into this post until I find one that the autocensor hasn't been programmed to cope with.

As Ghostwalker said, given that (a) it already exists as a complete object and (b) as a fan-film the crew have no desire or intention of making money from it, that something could be agreed to release it. It would be a crying, crying shame to see it simply binned.

Quote
The video games that our licensing partners have created have done an incredible job of bringing the Warhammer and Warhammer 40,000 games to life, and we appreciate that hobbyists may even want to make movies based upon our intellectual property. Unfortunately, due to the nuances of the law in some territories, we cannot allow any unlicensed movies to be created which are based upon our intellectual property.

Splat.

Would really, really like to know what said nuances of law are.

I don't suppose that's worth it? Does anyone know who I'd need to email to find this out - roughly?
(Rasmus, I'm probably looking at you here as you know the Damnatus team)

I'm not asking for details on negotiations or any such sillyness, merely for someone to point me at (an English translation of) the relevant bit of German law and explain why it's a problem....


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Offline Rasmus

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Re: Damnatus - German fan film project stopped by GW!
« Reply #35 on: July 11, 2007, 10:54:28 AM »
Quote
Would really, really like to know what said nuances of law are.
    To do the short version; if the movie is released under German law and sold for profit, GW (UK) cannot sue them, as German rule works another way pertaining to the publisher's (damnatus) rights to their works as opposed to the GW IP.
   That's how I have heard it anyway.

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Offline Redlion

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Re: Damnatus - German fan film project stopped by GW!
« Reply #36 on: July 11, 2007, 11:04:12 AM »
GW are a bunch of idiots. They could have easily turned this situation into a gold mine, I ain't telling them how though. What a bunch of morons though. They are so worried about their precious IP, ( that they mostly stole from others anyway ) they blind themselves, and will indeed, reap what they sow.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2007, 11:05:58 AM by Redlion »

Offline Vespasian Swiper

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Re: Damnatus - German fan film project stopped by GW!
« Reply #37 on: July 11, 2007, 11:08:51 AM »
Had a fan film been released... well my non-40k mates would have watched it at my house on home cincema system and gone 'gewillickers swiper! thats pwnage itself!' and maybe brought the games/gw branded crap.

Hmm...

Perhaps its time I open www.gwlaffo.com and fill it with jokes and make sure that all of them are based on fact so I'm not liable!

We can all see it instead of the McLibel case teh SFLibel case  :P
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Offline Moonsinger

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Re: Damnatus - German fan film project stopped by GW!
« Reply #38 on: July 11, 2007, 11:21:44 AM »
btw, are you advocating illegal activity? are we allowed to do that? if so, I'm totally for releasing it and if GW sues, tell them a copy of the film was 'stolen' and it's not their fault everyone has seen it.
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Offline Locarno

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Re: Damnatus - German fan film project stopped by GW!
« Reply #39 on: July 11, 2007, 11:42:21 AM »
Quote
To do the short version; if the movie is released under German law and sold for profit, GW (UK) cannot sue them, as German rule works another way pertaining to the publisher's (damnatus) rights to their works as opposed to the GW IP.
   That's how I have heard it anyway.

Did the damnauts crew intend to do so? And if not surely something could be agreed which would prevent it? (I mean, ok, it's not illegal for me to do such-and-such a thing under simple national law, but if I had signed a specific contract forbidding me to do that with a multinational corporation, and broke it, surely they would be entitled to beat me about the head and neck with a big stick with a nail in it?)

Bah. I shall never understand commercial law.

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