Topic: 1750 Invasion list (now with 2 versions)

[Shas'Oink]

A little while ago I posted a list querying the ability of our Scythes and additionally thinking about the HQ situation I was having and the consdieration to different special characters. At the time I was fleeting between Zahndrekh, Imotekh and simply two overlords for additional pulses.

Since then a new addition has dropped and this has resulted in me considering a few alterations to best take advantage of my units and the rules.

Zahndrekh : 185
This time round I have settled with Zahndrekh. He has all the pieces of wargear I need, (seeing as before I wanted phaeron for rapid firing at range) plus the ability hamper enemy special rules and boost my own units too. Of importance is his reserves ability which will really come in to play if people are using drop pods, but should effectively mean that (as long as I go second) I won't have to make any reserve rolls at all... ensuring that units forced off the table can come on as soon as possible!

Necron Lord : scarabs, weave, warscythe : 75
The old lists didn't have any lords, but this set up should be good at killing (pretty much any) enemy character in a challenge. I imagine that he will sit in the big warrior unit alongside zahndrek where the two of them will be able to soak wounds thanks to their 2+ save (and the orb big Z carries).

Cryptek : voltaic staff : 25
Cryptek : voltaic staff : 25
Cryptek : voltaic staff : 25
Where before I had 2 of these crypteks, now I have three, ensuring one can join each immortal unit providing what has the potential to be pretty devastating anti vehicle cover for them

10 Warriors : 130
One large unit of warriors where Zahndrek and the lord can seek refuge. I have the potential to hide them turn one, use them to protect a home objective, and fleet them about using the monolith too.

5 Immortals : 85
5 Immortals : 85
5 Immortals : 85
3 Night scythes (for Immortals) : 300
Small immortal units are probably more useful than small warrior units. Seeing as the units need to disembark in order to score I think the added survivability here is well worth the investment. You have to consider that the same cost only buys you one more warrior, with a little bit of spare change...

4 Scarabs : 60
In my last edition list I was thinking of using multiple scarab units. But I don't think they are as necessary now seeing as the army has potential to glance-kill vehicles (I may yet be proved wrong). They can still be used to lower armour in order to help this and can potentially be used to hold enemy units in combat giving me some breathing space. Still, I'm not sure I need any scarabs at all!?

3 Destroyers : 120
Not necessarily a top choice these days, but ultimately this unit (which is one of the two I have painted) adds some ranged AP3 to the list and should be able to help deal with smaller MEQ units at range. Lets not also forget that these can also be shifted around by the monolith which could be relatively interesting.

Monolith : 200
The monolith forms a pivot for the army to work around. It might be slow... but should prove relatively difficult to kill in the early game unless the enemy can drop in my face (though Zahndrekhs reinforcement rules will come into play then too). On paper it looks to be quite difficult to kill and also fairly competent with shooting. I don't know what peoples experiences are with this though, as it is a lot of points that may garner better results elsewhere?

2 Doom Scythes : 350
Not entirely convinced two doom scythes is really that worthwhile. I have so far been a little underwhelmed by doom scythes used against me (in the last edition) but their improved speed nowadays (and lack of fire arc) should make them all the more deadly. I could always replace doom one (or both) for a night scythe, using the saved points to buy warriors and further increase the scoring unit count?

1750
(on the dot)


At this point, it should be noted that if I drop the scarabs, replace the doom scythes with night scythes and take 2x immortals and 2x warriors (not including the big unit) I will be able to fit in 2x annihilation barges.

I would have lost 2 death rays, and the scarabs completely but gained two additional tesla destructors and a scoring unit (although my scoring units would be a little easier to kill).

I could potentially instead drop destroyers and do a very similar thing.

[Milford Cubicle]

I feel your Immortal units could use some beefing up, or at least 1 or 2 of them. Sure they can pop vehicles as they are, but if the enemy is fielding reasonable amounts of infantry, I don't see anything in the list that could reliably deal with them. Maybe if you work your Troops in perfect unison, they might, but that doesn't leave much room for error . Also it seems that you'd want to keep the Immortals inside the Scythes as long as possible, to avoid them getting shot. Which is probably smart, I wouldn't count on the resilience of such a small unit. But it leaves your army lacking some punch. Maybe you could try to fit in 5 more Immortals for 1 unit of 10 (or units of 7 & 8 ) to pack some punch against infantry, and leave the unit(s) of 5 cowering in the scythes for objective grabbing? Points maybe from the Destroyers, I feel that they'd need a couple more bodies to be viable. Now they'll die pretty easily unless you can keep the enemy busy with everything else.

It could be that I'm overlooking the potential of the Scythes (both kinds) against infantry, so you may not need reinforcing in that area, but even if that is the case I still feel that some rearrangement of your Troops section would be a good idea. I'm not a fan of those min. size units, except for maybe one unit holding the home objective while the rest of the army keeps the enemy busy

[Shas'Oink]

In the last edition I was being urged to lower my troops count (which lead to this general set up). Although that advice will not necessarily pass over a new edition, considering the change to missions etc it sure doesn't make my life any easier.

The ultimate goal is for units to work together... essentially, try not to think of the immortals as 3 separate units of 6 models (don't forget the cryptek goes in there too). Think of it as a block of between 12 - 18 troops. They can concentrate their fire on one target whilst the enemy will need to divide their own fire out amongst the different units. The night scythes add flexibility to the punch of each block.

For instance, I can pair each unit with their scythe for shooting. Getting 20 S5 gauss shots (at 12"), and 4 twin linked S7 shots (which itself can potentially cause up to 12 hits thanks to tesla) not to mention the crypteks own 4 shots. At a minimum that is 28 shots before you have even looked at directing more fire at a target.

Or, I can combine the fire of 2 units of immortals... getting 48 shots at a target... whilst the scythes could target another unit getting 8 (up to 24) shots.

Also don't forget that the tesla arc rules mean that the scythes have the potential to harm even more units surrounding their initial target.

If all goes according to plan, the idea is to not leave the enemy with enough of a retaliation. The mobility of the force thanks to the scythes should allow me to pick where I want to attack in order to help with this. You are right in that it leaves little room for error... but that's part of the tactical challenge that I enjoy! (I'm used to taking those calculated risks with my Tau).

The other trouble is I don't own any more immortals, and because I am using the old metal ones they are also pretty difficult to get hold of these days too!


I want to try out this build first, but taking the advice above I think I can work on the following list too:

Zahndrekh : 185

Necron Lord : scarabs, weave, warscythe : 75
Cryptek : voltaic staff : 25
Cryptek : voltaic staff : 25
Cryptek : voltaic staff : 25

10 Warriors : 130
10 Warriors : 130
5 Immortals : 85
5 Immortals : 85
5 Immortals : 85
4 Night scythes  : 400

4 Scarabs : 60
4 Scarabs : 60

Monolith : 200

2 Annihilation Barges : Gauss cannons : 180


I don't currently own any, but the annihilation barges are effectively like (a little) tougher to kill night scythes, but also pack the AP3 gauss that I lose by taking out the destroyers. My only problem is I don't particularly like the model and would look to convert them to look a little more like "drone escorts" for my flyers.

[g00gle5]

I can see how this list works and I like it, but there is one glaring hole in it for me, and it's probably because it's a part of my most competitive Grey Knight build:

What's your solution to high-toughness multi-wound Monstrous Creatures? (Nemesis Dreadknights come to mind...). I suppose there is the Mind-Shackle Lord but that's one model in the whole army. Thinking about it, I'd be tempted to swap the 3 Crypteks for 3 more Necron Lords with Scythes and Scarabs, possibly shuffle points around for the Weaves, too. (I'd get the points from the Scarabs -- I don't really see their use in this list?)

It'd help detract/win assaults from the leftovers of squads when you get in close (currently, it'd take 2/3 Khorne Bezerkers to comfortably win combat against your squads) as well as the much-needed Monstrous Creature deterrent.

With the Annihilation barges in the list, the extra Nightscythe and Zahndy's Tank Hunters your anti-tank quota is still supplemented fully and it opens up an extra dimension of combat, and even the option of running the Royal Court as a unit on its own, phasing in as a response to a nasty Deep-Striking unit.

I've now convinced myself you would be stupid to do otherwise

Edit: And after I submitted this I've just seen a thread talking about Necron Lords in Warrior/Immortal squads anyway which you like the idea of!

[Shas'Oink]

hmm... I have no idea how I'd counter them... The high toughness is less of a concern than the good armour save. The S7 tesla should be able to get wounds, but other than trying to volume of fire my way through them I'm still at the mercy of the enemy rolling multiple 1s. In the initial list the death rays could help take out such targets, but in the alternative list I completely lack ranged AP1 /2 for big creatures.

Saying that though, if one such creature can issue challenges, then the lords still don't stand much chance against them. Whilst I can ignore their saves, I will often be striking last... and with the dreadknights I'd lose my save (if they keep their fists). The lord would be dead before he'd get a look in...

Instead, I'd need to be looking for something like a unit of warscythe wielding praetorians (or whatever they are called)... but its a big 200pts of unit for 5 models that I can't see fitting in until the points level increases!?

hmm, I may even have to look towards some alternative cryptek options to see what can help. Though in general the crons lack low AP ranged weapons.

[g00gle5]

I was thinking more along the lines of multiple MSS scarabs to lock them down.

[Shas'Oink]

Hmm. That might be an option... But to be honest that is also banking on a failed ld test on the scarabs. Im starting to think that keeping the death rays will be important. Ill test the first list and then see how it goes from there. Im liking the idea of converting some annihilation barges now though!

[magenb]

Eldritch lance, Abyssal Staff, are options, but are really single shots. The staff could be interesting in overwatch.

you have an aweful lot of twin linked tesla destructor action, that would be your best bet. Once you have taken out their toaster , you should be sweet.

[tallerguy]

I like the invasion list. I worked on something similar. I have only play tested once though so if it flops it's your fault!

Max troops is the only way to go in 6th.

Surf Lord MSS
Lord Lab Weave
6 HoD 1 SP
7 Warriors 2 HoD here
7 Warriors 2 HoD here
7 Warriors 2 HoD here
7 Immortals in NS
7 Immortals in NS
7 Immortals in NS
3 An. Barges
Again 1750 on the nose. Immortals get to almost any objective in the game with zooming and invasion beaming on to objectives and bunker down. They are good at hitting softer targets with rapid fire. The foot lord goes in with one of the immortal squads and peels off to take on all comers to give the immortals another chance to rapid fire.

Play it and you will be suprised at how it does.

[Shas'Oink]

At the weekend I was able to test the Invasion themed army list. Of course, as is customary, I actually fielded a third variation in order to use as many of the models I had at my disposal with just enough points to try out an Abyssal Staff.

The list looked pretty similar to the second variation, swapping the scarabs for 3 destroyers (I had not finished building all the scarab bases) and then dropping 5 necrons for the 4 scarab bases I DID put together.

I had actually worked out a 1500pt list without the barges because that is the norm at the store and I was going there to buy the barges! but when I got there the manager was able to materialise 2 barges for me to test out!

Here is the slightly tweaked list I used;

Zahndrekh : 185

Necron Lord : scarabs, weave, warscythe : 75
Cryptek : abyssal staff : 30
Cryptek : voltaic staff : 25
Cryptek : voltaic staff : 25

10 Warriors : 130
5 Warriors : 65
5 Immortals : 85
5 Immortals : 85
5 Immortals : 85
4 Night scythes  : 400

4 Scarabs : 60
3 Destroyers : 120

Monolith : 200

2 Annihilation Barges : Gauss cannons : 180

Same same... but different.


I am preparing a battle report to show my first proper 6th edition necron game with my new army using clever pictures from that program that shall not be named and will post them in the near future but I wanted to give some initial thoughts on some of the units / army in general in order to see if others have had similar experiences to help me work out where my game sat on the averages.


Zahndrekh:
Pretty useful character there, great support for the army but you really need to remember all of the special rules he can gift / strip. That ability is worth it's weight in gold as long as you can get the right rules inthe right place at the right time. Watching Space Marine Scouts with cloaks and protected by night fight, lose their stealth bonuses is priceless!

Night Scythes:
Flyers are actually considerably trickier to field than I first thought, the limited movement and turning ability means you have to think several turns in advance and try to pre-empt enemy movements in order that your guns will be facing the right way at the right time. There was some confusion over what the fire arc of the Scythe actually is... the weapon is glued fixed, but it is clearly on a ball mount which would suggest that it is a turret but is glued in place? We ended up playing that the weapon had a 180* front fire arc.

Annihilation Barges:
Wow. Cheap as chips for what they bring to the table! These guys are most definately in.

Monolith:
I was a little unsure of this overall, I may have been too tentative with its use but it was able to play some part in the battle and help to manouvre units around a little easier thanks to the portal. I was just so worried about all of the melta weapons the enemy had!

Crypteks:
Without spoiling too much of the battle report to come, I think opponents at the store will be incredibly wary of these from now on. The Voltaic staff is lethal, easily the best 25 points you will EVER spend!!! For that matter, the Abyssal Staff is no slouch either

[Idaho]

I can't wait to read the battle report matey.

I'm interested to see the performance of fliers enmasse. I've read some discussion about whether flier dominated armies are effective or not, simply because of the points cost they spend a lot of time off the board and opponents can move towards your table edge and make you fly past the targets.

I want the truth!

[Shas'Oink]

For anyone interested, I just posted the battle report in the Battle Reports Forum for your pleasure.

here