Topic: Stealth suit units

[Ainafallas]

At the moment i'm pondering what sort of configuration to take for stealth suits.  I'm mainly looking at a 120pt unit.

My initial thought is to take 4 suits, providing 12 BS3 shots. Now in my list i have a sky ray so have the mobile markerlights to possibly up their BS if needed.  However this can often be used elsewhere.

The second thought is to take just 3 suits and up their BS to 4.  This means a smaller unit, which is good in terms of hiding but bad in terms of scoring and surviving.

Thens there's the slightly more unorthorodox approach: 3 suits at BS3 and 3 gun drones.  Now this mathematically provides the best killing power and also puts in some pinning possibilities.  Also its got better scoring potential.  However its a bigger squad so harder to hide and, unless i've missed something important, gets screwed by the 4+ save.

So what does everyone favour? Classical, upgraded or drone? Thoughts?

[Locke]

Yea, 4+ save =/= good. I'de go with the 3 with bs 4. Its 6 shots hitting either way (On average), but I would rather have the mobility of the smaller force. I'de also take a look at the point cost, if memory serves it cost less to outfit them for the same # of hitting shots for less points.

[Wyddr]

I take them bare-bones cheap, with almost no bells or whistles (maybe a bonding knife).

Stealths don't need much embellishment, as they tend to die and are pretty good at their main job (infantry thinning) as-is. 

[Shas'Oink]

stealth teams are my babies... and my opponents hate me for it!

i run two teams (usually... sometimes three!)

5x xv15, team leader, bonding knife = 160pts.

if i dont have these in, then theres something wrong with me. i have found this to be the most effective use of points.

four stealth are really the minimum unit size for effectiveness, and i would go with that if you cant stretch to find more points.

upgrades are all well and pretty but i dont do them. the TA is an obvious selection, but its expensive across a unit and in my opinion therefore not warranted. in a small unit they become juicy targets, and in a large unit its not (imo) efficient point use.

gun drones are a possibility... but like you say, they can reduce the overall effectiveness. though remember, that it only means you will take early casualties easier, as the drones die first. but later wounds could even this out so that you are left with few of each. (read the majority armour save rules carefully... as they can be very confusing).

i think... keep them simple.

just max out your burst cannons. you should only start thinking of additional upgrades once you have a good foundation to build them to. and points to spare.

[mantanza]

Just my 10 cents here but I am not a huge fan of stealth suits at all.  While I understand what they do is all good and the actual stealth generator can have its’ moments.  I find crisis suits are a much better selection for that elite slot. 

I will show you why I prefer them, this is not to incite an argument, merely why I choose crisis suits over stealth suits.

5 stealth suits with Burst Cannons cost 150 with no upgrades.

3 crisis suits with Burst Cannon, Missile Pod, and Multi-Tracker cost 150 points.

The crisis suits will perform exactly the same Vs GEQ at a effective range of 24" (this is including the 6" move on the 18" Burst Cannon), however beyond this range or against vehicles, MEQ or TEQ the crisis suits will perform much much better having the higher strength Missile Pod.  Further more, the crisis suit team has 1 more wound and a higher over all toughness.  Plus one forgotten thing is it takes 2 wounds to reduce this squad’s effectiveness.  Where-as with the stealth suits their effectiveness goes down every wound they take.

Again this is not to say crisis suits are better then stealth suits, it is merely to show a different point of view and why I choose to run Crisis rather then stealth suits.

[Spider-King]

But then again, crisis suits are even juicier targets. And its fairly easy to kill them with S8 weapons.

I like them both equally and am just starting tau. So at the moment i cant really comment. Still getting them together 

[Shas'Oink]

5 stealth suits with Burst Cannons cost 150 with no upgrades.

3 crisis suits with Burst Cannon, Missile Pod, and Multi-Tracker cost 150 points.

The crisis suits will perform exactly the same Vs GEQ at a effective range of 24" (this is including the 6" move on the 18" Burst Cannon), however beyond this range or against vehicles, MEQ or TEQ the crisis suits will perform much much better having the higher strength Missile Pod.  Further more, the crisis suit team has 1 more wound and a higher over all toughness.  Plus one forgotten thing is it takes 2 wounds to reduce this squad’s effectiveness.  Where-as with the stealth suits their effectiveness goes down every wound they take.

Again this is not to say crisis suits are better then stealth suits, it is merely to show a different point of view and why I choose to run Crisis rather then stealth suits.

all good points. and you are right to a degree. but there are further considerations too.

as already mentioned, crisis suits are juicier targets. perhaps the biggest consideration. but also, they are easier to target. stealth teams are actually very annoying for opponents... not least of all because they often take the enemy by surprise when charged! (my xv15s have beaten off all kinds of enemy in combat thanks to striking first!)

also, instant kill is a pain for crisis suits, not so for xv15s, should they even be able to be targetted!

the XV8s do have their weapon fits in their favour. being able to take the weapon that most fits the need and niche of your army is great. but at the same time it specialises their role often (which is why the flexible fireknife config does so well, it does not conform to this!) saying that though, this can make them even juicier targets!

another considerable oversight is the fact that the stealths infiltrate.

couple infiltrate with the stealth field gens and my mind is clearly made up.

its not for everyone though... i do get some funny looks when i play a tau army with only the mandatory commander battlesuit (which i would not even take sometimes if i had the choice!)

[Siege_TF]

I use a team of five suits and one Shield Drone. So far. Most of my games are 1000 points, so I simply can't afford any more.

When used correctly they more than make up their points. If I were to include a Fusion Blaster then they'd be a threat to enemy tanks, so they'd also be a target for enemy tanks who usually shoot at other things because the player doesn't want to risk the night fight check, and/or because the stealths aren't generally a threat to them.

A very shortsighted attitude when they take out most of a Guard squad per turn, I know.

I don't like burst cannons on Crisis suits, Crisis suits are meant for hunting light to medium vehicles, and medium to heavy infantry IMO. Fireknife configuration FTW. The one suit with an Airburster, Plasma Rifle, and Shield Generator is generally a bait unit, so he doesn't count. ;>_>

[Shas'Oink]

ok, one final go:

stealth suits are great units... and just like most tau units they have their role to fill... as a rule, you should make the most of their greatest assets... and in order to do that one must identify those assets. in this case, its really not too hard.

1. stealth field generator.
2. infiltration
3. movement ability.
4. burst cannon.

1. Stealth field generator.
this piece of kit allows your unit to act deep within the enemy army without being spotted by units at range. this will save them from ranged heavy weapons fire that would otherwise obliterate their fragile T3. In order to make the most of this, you want to actually make use of the distance offered on a gaming table. setting them up at the cenre of your lines doesnt do this... as ALL enemy units will have a fair chance to see them. setting them up on a flank will automatically negate the enemy shooting from the far flank, taking some of the heat off of the stealths and allowing them to concentrate their firepower in one location.

2. Infiltration.
the first rule with infiltration is that just because you can infiltrate, doesnt mean you have to deploy them out of your deployment zone. in my opinion, the greatest asset of the infiltrate rule is that it allows you to deploy last. letting you set up your stealth team in a threatening position to the enemy, whilst keeping them safe from threats they may not be capable of dealing with. any inches you can gain on teh opponents here can be good... but with a 6" move and an 18" range yuo essentially have 24" to play with. the fact you have to measure yur distance away from enemy units when deploying infiltrators can allow you to set up safe from enemy fire whilst fully capable of decimating a unit in your first turn.

3. Movement ability.
the jet packs are of course a great piece of kit... allowing you to manouvre your suits into advanced positions, firing upon enemy units before retreating to a safe location. terrain hopping is an easy tactic... but can be difficult with larger units... i often like towalk them into terrain... and jump them out of it... firing in the middle of course. their speed also allows them to advance quickly once they have created a gap into which they can go, and a stealth team in the flank of an enemy deployment zone is an incredibly dangerous unit... akin to say eldar harlequins or other such combat units. the difference being that the danger from stealth teams comes from their shooting. dont forget though, that the stealth generator allows them to strike first in combat... and so against non combat specialists they can often hold their own too.

4. Burst cannon.
this is the single greatest thing about the stealth teams. a move and shoot heavy bolter essentially, the strength of this does not comefrom its basic profile... but from the number which a team can field. the sheer number of shots will overwhelm opponents of any armour save. the basic principle being to hit them with so many shots that they have to take more armour saves than they can pass! to this end you want to field large squads of stealth suits. three man teams just dont cut it. though you can just about get a good return from 4 man teams.
secondly with burst cannons is you have to identify their greatest targets... infantry / light vehicles / light skimmers. if you are not shooting at these, you are wasting your time. your unit should be placed ready to break such units as quickly as possible and then prepare to move onto their next target. this is where their infiltration and movement abilities will help them. should a leman russ or some other undesirable target be in their way then support your teams with the units most capable of destroying said targets. after all, there is a reason we get to use broadsides / hammerheads / seeker missiles etc.

so, now that their main strengths have been identified we need to figure out how best to apply them. the thing you have to remember is that all of these abiities are considered part of their cost. so if you are not using any of them... you are wasting your points. and a great tau army will utilise every point as efficiently as possible.

personally i run a 5 man team. this gives me 15 S5 shots a turn... support from markerlight units or kroot can help the unit out should it be required... and alows them flexibility to target units in different situations.

in order to keep your unit in the game for as long as possible, to make as much use of it as possible, the unit needs a bonding knife. so one member should be upgraded to a team leader and given this most essential of upgrades. i have learnt that, while a full team will cause devastation, a remnant squad can still play a small, but effective part in a battle. ever since a sole remaining team leader rallied and proceeded to destroy 3 enemy eldar vypers. ive never looked back. my five man team with team leader and bonding knife rings in at just 160pts. and always recoups those points as well as many more.

but how can you resist all those shiny upgrades...
well, some can be useful, others a simply a waste of points.

1. target locks.
target locks are rather pricy, over a whole squad at least. they can be a nice addition, as they increase your chance of hitting. but clearly some have decided to ignore markerlights. which do the same thing, for a fraction of the price. i woud ratehr invest teh same number of points in markerlights / markerlight units which can help out the stealth teams when required. you get more markerlights out fo the same points which can be used to add +2 to your BS AS WELL AS reduce enemy cover saves and all those other gubbins... use them. at the end of the day, the points invested in markerlights to do the same job will also be better spent as they can be used to support other units when they need it more. simply put, its about efficient use of points... and target locks are, in my opinion, not a greatly efficient use of said points.

2. drone controllers.
drone controllers are actually not a bad use of the points when all things are considered. the drones benefit from the stealth generators FOR FREE. and although shield drones looks like a nice choice, you can get twice as may gun drones for the same cost! what you look at here is, not only are you increasing the number of models in the unit, you give them more shots (to help do their task) and you give them shots that can pin, which can help you mow through enemy units with immunity. as long as you have invested in a bonding knife the unit will be fine. the downside is that the unit can be more difficult to hide... but the increased number of shots will mean they will be mre potent against enemy targets.

3. shield generators.
shield generators are expensive. no two ways about it. the invulnerable save can be nice... but it almost doubles the cost of each model. and does not increase the unit size as the drones would. to be honest, if you are being shot at, then you've likely done some thing wrong. especially if you are being shot at by something that ignores your armour. remember that cover can provide you with an all important save agaisnt such weapons too... and that comes free with the battlefield! drop shield generators and instead invest those points in drones... any hits can be taken on them, leaving you your more expensive drones.

4. fusion guns.
ooh.. a though one. they appear a very nice option you have to ask yourself... "what is my UNIT going to be doing while this chap fires at the tank?" not very much really. and that can scream horribleness in all directions! saying that, the ability to deal with a dangerous enemy tank that appears in front of them can be useful, and stop instant killage! and the upgrade can help you out should you be faced with a failed priority check and forced to fire at the nearest tank. however, there are two things here and neither of them are points.
the first is that every stealth suit with a fusion gun, is a stealth suit without a burst cannon. and each model without a burst cannon reduces the overall effectiveness of your infantry killing unit.
the second thing is that tau are clearly not short of anti tank units. broadsides, hammerheads are obvious ones, but plasma gun and missile pod toting suits can achieve the role to an extent too. the trick is to take out the tank with a dedicated unit and then allow your suits to use it as cover to advance to! finally, consider that a single anti tank shot will have to be pretty lucky (all things considered) to destroy the target. though once again, given proper support from BS increasing markerlights you can quickly earn your keep by destroying an enemy tank early in the game.
in all, your stealth teams can work much better under the support of you other units... markerlights was one example, anti tank units another. leaving your suits to concentrate on anti infantry. if you want to take one, they may be able to act a little more independantly... though you will need to bulk out the unit with another suit armed with a burst cannon to make up for your loss.  its not an incredibly bad option, just that in my opinion it detracts form the units main ability as an anti infantry unit. if you want to go through with it, then i might be tempted to take two fusions in a unit of six suits... so you can most effectively multi task your unit.

5. target lock.
again, the thing to consider here is that every model not shooting at the same unit will lower the efficiency of your unit. you want to concentrate your firepower on infantry targets first. destroying one before moving onto the next. where these can be useful is on suits with fusion guns, allowing them to shoot at a different unit (tank). but remember that you will also have to upgrade your other suits too... gun drones are a nice complement to such a unit.

6. markerlights.
stealth suits are users of markerlights, not directors of them. a "marker team" with a number of networked marker drones and or markerlights is an ultra expensive way to do something other things in your list can do better. dont waste your time with such a unit... just take a bunch of sniper teams... which cost you far less overall and which can be used to support your suits AS WELL AS other units. marker drones also slow your unit down... which means you are not making the best use of your movement ability, and a leader not firing a burst cannon is not making the best use of that either. in short... forget markerlights on stealth teams, use the points to get them elsewhere in your list and then allow your stealth teams to benefit from them.

In short, there are a lot of upgrades for the stealth teams. but few of these are worth it. you should never spend too many points on any unit... especially one that plays a dangerous game by fleeting within arms reach of the enemy. for that reason you need to completely dedicate the unit to destroying its target... and anything that does not do that should be left at home. it is also not a wise use of points to upgrade them to do a job that another unit can do better... why bother with a marker unit when you have pathfinders and sniper teams... why bother with fusion guns when you have broadsides or seeker missiles etc...

That is simply why i run my 5 man teams, with bonding kinfe. 160pts, that gets support from my sky ray, pathfinders, broadsides... oh, and i run 2 teams. increasing their effectiveness even further! my stealth suits have become feared by my opponents, and they easily won me the last 40konline london tournament, supported by my network of units. they also came to conflict london last year where they performed admirably, and despite games lasting only 3-4 turns in many cases, they still placed my partner and i as the top tau team.

depending on the opponent or the mission they can either work alone on opposite flanks, or together on one to punch a dirty great hole in the enemy line. backed up by a unit of gun drones and my commander they fill this gap and proceed to manouvre across the enemy line. my opponents are often surprised as i come around to their side of the table... its not often you see tau armies doing such a thing!

in short, do it right, or dont bother doing it 

[Ainafallas]

Ok thank you for that oink.

I've actually been using 3 stealths and 3 gun drones recently.  My initial thoughts were that they're too hard to hide but after a few games, i found them fairly easy to hide and the added pinning shots are very handy.


As a side note, why does everyone seemingly run 5 man squads when even numbers are better in this edition?

[Wyddr]

Ok thank you for that oink.

I've actually been using 3 stealths and 3 gun drones recently.  My initial thoughts were that they're too hard to hide but after a few games, i found them fairly easy to hide and the added pinning shots are very handy.


As a side note, why does everyone seemingly run 5 man squads when even numbers are better in this edition?

It think it mostly has to do with the cost of each suit coupled with how effective each one is. If I have stealth-suit sized block of points left over, I will buy a 5th suit over 3 FWs or a couple Kroot. I never 'plan' to have 5, it just happens sometimes.

[Kishvier]

I dislike stealsuits,  They are worse than XV8 Squads in firepower so they seem more valuable to me!  More firepower=more wins.  If you want burst cannon, give the XV8's burst cannons.  I don't see why people use them so much. 

[Derikari]

Stealth Suits are cheaper for burst cannons. They also have the stealth field generator, that sweet thing can realy annoy opponents if he can draw LOS. Crisis Suits also have access to a lot of other weapons, namely missile pods, fusion blasters and plasma rifles awsell as the special issue weapons, including your favourite, the CIB. When suits are fired upon, it is almost always with something very strong (in my experiance) like rokkits, that extra wound or increased save wont help you survive instant death much more than a Stealth suit, but the stealth generator he/she carries can.

I don't see why people use them so much. 

Every one is different. If it wasn't so how boring would it be?