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Offline Rx8Speed

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fluff question about the new codex
« on: April 28, 2015, 01:29:43 PM »
Just throwing it out there i havent read much 40k fluff as i usually find it a less easy read than wfb fluff. Anyways ive been reading a bit through the eldar codex and noticed that it makes a lot of references to 'The Galaxy'. When they say 'The Galaxy' do they really mean the universe? I mean i guess it makes sense because even at the speed of light we wouldnt be able to reach the nearest galaxy in 38000 years. Butbj thought wih warp travel they've managed faster-than-light travel. Anyways i am hoping someone can answer this and help me conceptualize the scope of the 40k universe

Offline The GrimSqueaker

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Galaxy or Universe? Re: fluff question about the new Eldar codex
« Reply #1 on: April 28, 2015, 01:37:05 PM »
Nope, they actually mean the galaxy as in singular. Supposedly Bad Things are located in other galaxies. Also, IIRC, Warp drive doesn't function very well past the rim. Something about the Warp being formed from (un)conscious minds and thus the great void between galaxies doesn't have a whole lot of warp action going on, overly calm as it were. Not impossible to traverse, merely different with its own foibles.

If you take a look at the Tyranid invasion routes, the Hive Fleets are entering our galaxy from numerous locations outside of it, thus they are suspected of crossing the void the long way.

Edit: Wasn't there a story somewhere about an Adept Mech probe sent out into the dark that kept reporting Ork signals?
« Last Edit: April 28, 2015, 03:32:30 PM by The GrimSqueaker »
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Offline Calamity

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Re: Galaxy or Universe? Re: fluff question about the new Eldar codex
« Reply #2 on: April 28, 2015, 03:38:00 PM »
Edit: Wasn't there a story somewhere about an Adept Mech probe sent out into the dark that kept reporting Ork signals?

Yeah, that was in either an old BRB or the old Ork codex.  I can't remember exactly but yes, that story exists. 

I know the 'nids come from outside the galaxy (and there's rumors that they're running away from something even worse), and then there's whoever or whatever made them (they have to be some sort of bio weapon gone terribly wrong...or terribly right).  If the Warp focuses around living beings though then there's got to an 'edge' in the warp where the galaxy stops.

Offline Grizzlykin

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Re: fluff question about the new codex
« Reply #3 on: April 28, 2015, 06:36:08 PM »
If i read the eldar fluf right, the webway used to be something the eldar could modify at will. As the webway is a warp passage that stay in the real world i assume the warp extend as long as there is real world. Judging from the fact tht tyranide have come from an other galaxy i think it's safe to assume the warp and the webway might extend a very little bit further away from the galaxy itself, at least as a left over, left behind by the coming tyranide don't you think?
There is also the fact that necron went to war outside the galaxy while some of theme stayed asleep if i'm not wrong. For some reason i don't remember, they decided to come back, that might have been helped by the fact that they encountered something on there way out. I don't  know. Or they had trouble travelling without the warp and the webway.
If tyranide run away from something even worse... what will that be? Because if they flee when tyranide have such a strong will to advance and conquere, if all the intelectual race don't fight together, I think it's going to be a massacre.
Ork signal... what ? Where does ork comes from btw? As far as i remember they have the most powerfull god might have something to do with what the tyranide flee. I mean remember that inquisition guy that send a tyranide ruch vs an ork waagh if that's what happened in the original galaxy of the tyranide and the ork won that might explain the tyranide fleeing.
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Offline Spectral Arbor

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Re: fluff question about the new codex
« Reply #4 on: April 28, 2015, 10:15:29 PM »
Technically, with Warp travel, you can arrive before you left. The Inquisition has an Ordo dedicated to sorting out timeline infractions. :)

If subconscious minds in our Galaxy create the warp, then hypothetically there are other subconscious minds in other galaxies, creating their own warp. They might have the "Chaos Gods" of Truth, Justice, and the Angrathorixian Way. And of Snuggles. Warm, suffocating snuggles.

Such a warp would likely have different "rules" that would simply be unknowable to denizens of our Galaxy. Perhaps the Hive Mind is a Nid god from another galaxy, in which those Nids are sentient. An exploratory fleet loses contact with their soul-space, lose their minds, and only get the most vague of impulses from their soul space. They unconsciously maintain the basic life functions of hunt, eat, adapt, but are a "Shadow in the Warp" because their souls don't mix with 40k Warp. Oil in Water.

Quite frankly, there's more than enough space in this Galaxy to house the people. While intergalactic travel may be possible, there's no driving need to do so.

Offline Grizzlykin

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Re: fluff question about the new codex
« Reply #5 on: April 29, 2015, 04:13:54 AM »
Well to me there is more than enough war to not seek more in an other galaxy and no one is cornered enought to try to leave the gala y in a quest for security.
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Offline Sir_Godspeed

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Re: fluff question about the new codex
« Reply #6 on: April 29, 2015, 08:16:13 AM »
If i read the eldar fluf right, the webway used to be something the eldar could modify at will. As the webway is a warp passage that stay in the real world i assume the warp extend as long as there is real world. Judging from the fact tht tyranide have come from an other galaxy i think it's safe to assume the warp and the webway might extend a very little bit further away from the galaxy itself, at least as a left over, left behind by the coming tyranide don't you think?

"Modify at will" leaves a lot of room for interpretation. As far as I know, there's never been any statement to suggest that the Webway goes beyond the galaxy.


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There is also the fact that necron went to war outside the galaxy while some of theme stayed asleep if i'm not wrong. For some reason i don't remember, they decided to come back, that might have been helped by the fact that they encountered something on there way out. I don't  know. Or they had trouble travelling without the warp and the webway.

The Necrons fluff has changed a lot through the years, but as far as I know, they've always been confined to the galaxy. Maybe some splinter force?

EDIT: Indeed, seems like the Silent King travelled intergalactic space and saw Tyranids out there. He's since returned.

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If tyranide run away from something even worse... what will that be? Because if they flee when tyranide have such a strong will to advance and conquere, if all the intelectual race don't fight together, I think it's going to be a massacre.

It could just be speculation by Imperial or Eldar intellectuals. Even if they are fleeing from something, GW will probably not reveal anything in the foreseeable future (if ever), and merely use it as a storytelling device.
 
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Ork signal... what ? Where does ork comes from btw? As far as i remember they have the most powerfull god might have something to do with what the tyranide flee.

Last time I checked the fluff, the Orks were created by the Old Ones (who called them the Krork) to fight the Necron(tyr)s and Enslavers, as a kind of biological weapon. The Old Ones implanted them with various abilities, such as the Waaagh! gestalt psychic field, and a genetic memory of various technical blueprints. Eventually the Old Ones died off (or escaped to somewhere else) and so the Orks are running around willy nilly these days.

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I know the 'nids come from outside the galaxy (and there's rumors that they're running away from something even worse), and then there's whoever or whatever made them (they have to be some sort of bio weapon gone terribly wrong...or terribly right).  If the Warp focuses around living beings though then there's got to an 'edge' in the warp where the galaxy stops.

I've always hoped they're just a highly succesful result of natural selection. There's a couple of reasons for that, one being that I feel there are more than enough experiments gone wrong running around the 40k universe as is, and the second is that I generally dislike the tendency of GW to have to insert simplistic explanations along the "a wizard did it" (or in this case, "an ancient species made them"). There's enough "agency" around, imho. What I'd like is a compelling dive into a hypothetical track of evolution in a universe where psychic powers are real.

But then again I had hoped they would've used the Necrons to explore ideas within how AIs (or AI-ified beings) perceive the world, process information and operate in groups. But then they went with Robot Space Egyptians. Eh, fair enough.
« Last Edit: April 29, 2015, 08:52:44 AM by Sir_Godspeed »

Offline The Reborn

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Re: fluff question about the new codex
« Reply #7 on: April 29, 2015, 09:32:29 AM »
When they say "galaxy", they mean just the Milky Way.  It's still a grand scale however, as the galaxy is a fantastically huge space. :)

The warp sits there outside/alongside the natural world/galaxy, like the underlay beneath a carpet, stretching just as far but largely unseen (unless you have a worn patch...call it a maelstrom or Eye).

Tyranids made their way to this galaxy because they had apparently exhausted their food supply in their own galaxy. KFC adverts cast will-nilly into the void from Terra has proven our undoing, and the battle is on... :)

Offline The GrimSqueaker

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Re: fluff question about the new codex
« Reply #8 on: April 29, 2015, 03:00:27 PM »
The novel Shadow Point had an interesting subplot of an Avatar traversing the webway to get from where they were to where they needed to be. The Avatar was getting increasing more annoyed as the webway was damaged and many gates were no longer functional. One instance involved exiting one gate, traversing the area annihilating Orks along the way, then entering another gate to continue their journey as a direct path wasn't available.

So even if there *is* a gate in another galaxy, getting to it may be beyond even the extended life times of the Eldar (also logistics, always a problem with logistics).
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Offline Rx8Speed

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Re: fluff question about the new codex
« Reply #9 on: April 29, 2015, 07:31:10 PM »
wow that's something I did not know. I had always assumed that 40k had a larger scope than a single galaxy, not that the milky way is small (100-400 billion stars) but still, it's just one galaxy!

Offline The Reborn

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Re: fluff question about the new codex
« Reply #10 on: April 30, 2015, 09:28:40 AM »
Haha yes, just one galaxy.

As the old saying goes, it's a small world....but you wouldn't want to have to paint it!

Offline Grand Master Lomandalis

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Re: fluff question about the new codex
« Reply #11 on: April 30, 2015, 02:16:21 PM »
You also have to remember scale here.  The galaxy may seem small when the fluff could expand through the entire universe, but our galaxy is roughly 100,000 light years in diameter.  And one light year is roughly 9.4606x1012 kilometres. 

So that would mean the galaxy is 9.4606x1017 kilometres in diameter; that puts it in the hundred-quadrillion range.  Pardon the language, but that is pretty beslubbering huge.  I don't think we need to get universal just yet.
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Offline Calamity

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Re: fluff question about the new codex
« Reply #12 on: April 30, 2015, 03:28:28 PM »
There was a documentary on the cosmos on my TV the other night that really set out how absolutely freaking huge the Galaxy really is.  Traveling across it at the speed of light still takes 100,000 years.  We only started building the pyramids like 5500 years ago...let that sink in.  If the whole of this Galaxy isn't big enough for a setting then what is? :P

Offline The GrimSqueaker

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Re: fluff question about the new codex
« Reply #13 on: April 30, 2015, 03:32:36 PM »
One of the nearer other galaxies (Canis Major Dwarf Galaxy) is 25,000 LYs away. Of course the Milky Way is currently destroying it because not everyone may have nice neighbours.
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Offline Sir_Godspeed

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Re: fluff question about the new codex
« Reply #14 on: May 1, 2015, 07:53:47 AM »
Even if the Imperium is an empire of a million worlds, even if the orks have more planets aroun than that, even if yet several million worlds exist as occupied by various other races, that still means less than a ten-thousandth of all star systems are inhabited, and that's with lower estimates on the number of stars.

I've always personally found a single Galaxy to be a very fitting scale. Star Wars does it too. I remember reading Dune extending to several Galaxies and it just felt too freakin big. :P

Offline The Reborn

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Re: fluff question about the new codex
« Reply #15 on: May 1, 2015, 09:05:23 AM »
Agreed.  Intergalactic seems a bit too much really.  And there's not a lot of scenery in between galaxies if you're going on a hike like the Tyranids.
No wonder the bugs all get put to sleep....can you imagine that poor Hive ship having 40 trillion gaunts all shouting "are we there yet"?

Offline Grizzlykin

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Re: fluff question about the new codex
« Reply #16 on: May 1, 2015, 01:18:49 PM »
Agreed.  Intergalactic seems a bit too much really.  And there's not a lot of scenery in between galaxies if you're going on a hike like the Tyranids.
No wonder the bugs all get put to sleep....can you imagine that poor Hive ship having 40 trillion gaunts all shouting "are we there yet"?


Well i can defenetly pictures it and that would be ridiculous><
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