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Modeling => Painting => Topic started by: Powerslave on January 2, 2009, 10:23:38 AM
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Hey guys,
Need some help here.
I have recently ordered a Space Marine army (got the whole deal in one go, should be delivered in 1/2 weeks). I have decided to paint my army in the Raptors Legion color scheme, as well as getting some FW upgrades like Terminator shoulders, Rhino doors, etc. My birthday is coming up in just a bit over a month, and I will be getting a FW superheavy with some Death Korps of Kriegs to make it all into one big Apocalypse force to oppose my March of Iron (my CSM Apocalypse force).
With all this said, my GW Citadel paints are running out and I am starting to see that I will have to buy new paints very soon (I would say in about 3/4 weeks or so).
I have narrowed my choices down to 2 - Citadel paints (which I am using right now) or Vallejo paints (I heard too many good things).
So, my first question is - what do you think, is it worth making the switch to Vallejo?
But my main issue lies here - (couldn't find anything on the forums) - which Vallejo range to take if I do make the switch?
I see the model color range and the game color range - both seem very good. The model color range has two sub-ranges or sets - the military set or the hobby range set, while the game color range just has one range set. I am talking about the sets for 120 pounds, the 70 color sets. As far as I see it - the military color can be great for my Raptors (since they are green) and for the Death Korps / Superheavies, plus they can be used with my Legio Mortis / Death Guard guys as well. But then, the model color hobby set and the game color set provide a lot of general choices and a wider pallette of colors.
Now that you know of my objective, my situation and my goal - what do you think I should pick from the Vallejo range for my army? Which set should I take? Does anyone have any experience with the various Vallejo ranges and sets?
Thanks in advance! Really need an advice to be able to make a choice :)
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I picked up the Hobby range from here (http://snmstuff.co.uk/VallejoSets.aspx) for about £100. I don't know how well that would factor in for postage to France but it's enough of a discount it may be worth sending them an e-mail over; especially with the direction the exchange rate is headed.
From the sounds of it, you'd be better suited to the Military set because it would provide the colours worth it to your army. The guys who run the website are fairly flexible though - I already had a few Vallejo paints and when I placed my order for the set they were able to swap out any duplicates for other paints I wanted. So it's perfectly possible to send them an e-mail to see if they'd do the same and swap out any shades that you don't need in favour of ones that you do. If you paint a lot of metals I'd suggest getting the metal medium, which is excellent for that final layer of highlight. It's a good shade or three lighter than mithril silver.
I'd definitely advise model over game ranges when it comes to buying sets. Model simply has a much wider variety of shades, and is of finer quality pigment. I find it paints beautifully. That said there's no need to exclude Game range because they're all acrylic so it's perfectly easy to mix them to find the colours you want.
Model range has a finer pigment and more variety of colours but it's less durable, so until it's had a good 24 hours to set you want to be careful when handling the model, and varnishing is definitely advised.
Game range has less range of colours, but it's formula is designed to be a little more durable to handling with gamers in mind, which is why a lot of it's colours are comparable in shade to GW ones (Warlord Purple? Hang on a minute ...)
I use model range because most of the painting I do with them aren't for gaming pieces but more for display ones. Even if you are using gaming pieces you won't notice much difference once it's all been varnished (which, if you take care over your painting and are taking them onto the battlefield, I assume you'll be doing.)
As for whether or not it's worth making the switch from GW paints, Vallejo are better quality, in bigger pots (17ml versus 12ml), have a wider range and cost less. I'd consider it a bit of a no brainer, personally. Also as I mentioned they're all acrylic (apart from the Liquid Gold range) so you can still use them in conjunction with your remaining GW paints.
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Thanks a lot Dux! This is the kind of advice I was looking for :)
I am pretty sure now that I will be taking the Vallejo Model Military Set. Yes, I use varnish to protect all my models - I try to be careful about them, especially the ones that I have spent a lot of time on. And since I do not ply as much time as I spend collecting and painting, this is not a major issue for me.
Thanks for the heads up on the metal medium (I paint a lot of metal, since I have a 3000 point Iron Warriors army, so it can be very useful for me in this department as well).
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my only problem with vallejo is that they dont cover well at all they are simply too watery for any form of basecoating so make sure you use gw for basecoats and then vallejo for the rest is pretty much what i do as the vallejo paints come at perfect consistancy for highlights
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I've heard good things, seen good results, and seen VERY good prices, so now I'm interested...
Are Vallejo paints better than the regular GW brand paints, and for bright reds and yellows (Blood Angels assault marines in mind here) would Vajello paints be better?
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Personally I like vallejo paints for painting bright colours. I painted a Marco Columbo with bright reds and yellows and found the vallejo paints much easier to get a smooth coverage with brighter shades than when using GW paints.
I disagree with Slargy_of_Thor that Vallejo is useless for basecoating. Yes, if you want just one flat colour it may be easier for certain colours to use GW paints (though I would say not for yellow or bright red) but if your final result will be a smooth, feathered or layered blend it does no harm to start off with Vallejo because I find the shades are better matched to blend into one another.
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Did my subject get merged here?
Thanks Dux, just what I needed to know.
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Yup, I merged. If you look at the latest stickies you'll see why.
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I see.
Right, so what red would be best for the traditional Blood Angel look?
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Blood Angels are blood red, so use the colour matcher (http://colors.silicon-dragons.com/full_line.php) from the sticky. Put GW paints in the left hand drop box, and vallejo in the right hand and it will show you how to make a perfect blood red from the vallejo range. It'll also show you how close the colours are. Then just pick something suitable from what it brings up.
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Diamond, thanks man.
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my only problem with vallejo is that they dont cover well at all they are simply too watery for any form of basecoating so make sure you use gw for basecoats and then vallejo for the rest is pretty much what i do as the vallejo paints come at perfect consistancy for highlights
Game Color are watery and somewhat thin. The model color range is very thick, and opaque, and matte. Plus you want to use thinned down paint anyways.
Remember if your paint covers in one coat, it's not thin enough.
Cheers
James
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Well, at this point I have decided to go ahead with Vallejo and will be placing my order at the end of the week. One thing though, I am still a bit torn between game color vs model color for one reason - I saw somewhere an opinion that stated that the game color is more intense and bright, while the model ones are much more gloomy and pastel-like.
As in my previous post, I know that I will be using the Model Color series for my Forgeworld units, as it is much more logical to do so, since FW stuff is more realistic and works nicely with the german WWII paint patterns. But, I am a bit unsure as to how well Model Color will work for my Chaos and my loyalist Raptors SM Chapter - I am afraid it might be a bit too dark from what I hear.
So my question lies in the following - would someone know if that is really the case and the Model Color series is much darker than with the GC series of colors? If yes, then is it still possible to find suitable colors in the MC range to achieve the desired "bright" effect that the Space Marines require most of the time? Should I be buying Game Colors for my Raptors Marines and my Chaos Marines?
Would someone be able to post some pictures here or give a link where I can see units painted with Vallejo Model Color and Game Color to see the potential difference?
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Vallajo is better then GW colour but for basecoating I prefere GW foundation.
I find the Vallajo white cover far better the GW's whites.
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Yeah, I agree, Vallejo is much better, indeed, seems like Vallejo got it right, but I need to find out something more specific about the Vallejo ranges - as I am making a pretty big investment and want to be sure.
So my question lies in the following - would someone know if that is really the case and the Model Color series is much darker than with the GC series of colors? If yes, then is it still possible to find suitable colors in the MC range to achieve the desired "bright" effect that the Space Marines require most of the time? Should I be buying Game Colors for my Raptors Marines and my Chaos Marines?
Would someone be able to post some pictures here or give a link where I can see units painted with Vallejo Model Color and Game Color to see the potential difference?
Just reposting my latest questions from my previous post - since I really need to get to the bottom of the truth. I already know that Model Color are great for realistic colors and will suit my Forgeworld superheavies / DKOK needs, but I am having serious second thoughts about Model Color working well for my Space Marines / Chaos, since I need very vibrant and intense colors, not dull and plain colors.
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Model colour has a more complete selection of colours, game colour has a selection designed to mirror those most commonly used in rangers targetted at tabletop gamers (e.g. a lot are similar to GW colours). Because game ranges have less paints in general and a focus is on vibrant colours, model colour has a higher percentage of "gloomy" colours. It is, by no means, lacking in vibrant colours. Just be aware of the colours that you're buying and the shades that you want.
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Aha, that was exactly my dillema, because I was thinking "daumn... I will have to buy both sets if I want the best of both worlds..." So basically I can achieve the same effects with Model Color as with Game Color as I understand, that would save a lot of hassle and money for me.
Dux, would you happen to have any pictures somewhere on these forums of work you have done with Model Color? (And thanks for all your input by the way, helped me a lot!) :)
And if that's the case, then I will get the Hobby Set (72 paints) + the German Camo WWII set (16 paints). Because I was also looking at getting Game Color (72 paints) Set + German Camo WWII set. Now, I think I will go with the first choice. I studied the military set and I find the Hobby Set to be much more flexible, so I decided for pure classic military colors I can just get the German set.
For example, I was looking at the Pink in the Game Color range, and at the 3 shades of Pink in MC range and from the pictures it looks like the GC pink is the brightest one (just using pink as example, since I have 2 squads of Emperors Children to be painted some day).
Also, the Model Color, are they good for building up an easy basecoat - or do some of you guys use Foundation paints anyways for that job?
Sorry for so many questions - it's just that I haven't found much concrete information around the net (a lot of opinions, but a lack of arguments often).
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You do realise it's possible to mix colours with, say, white if you want a brighter colour? The difference between Game Colour and Model Colour is primarily the quality of the ingredients - the pigment is finer, the binder and vessel help it flow better.
Even if there's one particular shade that for whatever reason you can't mix to get, you can still buy it and use it in conjunction with model colour because the acrylics will mix perfectly fine. Being "brightest" doesn't also mean best because presumably you'll be mixing paints for shading and highlighting so sometimes it's better to have a mid range to work better.
As for an easy basecoat, as with any range it depends on the specific colour. A couple of coats and you'll have a good, clean base to work from. If it takes less than that you're usually laying the paint on thick. Yes, foundation paints will be quicker but you don't usually make such a transition if your only concern is speed, and again you can use foundation just for the base and then model colour for the majority of painting.
Unfortunately I just had to re-format my computer and my photobucket isn't up to date enough to have any vallejo painted models in it. So, no images avilable.
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Sounds good.
Now my thirst for answers has been satisfied. Thanks a lot for all the information that was provided here (special thanks to you Dux).
I made up my mind and will be placing an order for the Vallejo Model Color Hobby Set + WWII German Set.
Cheers.
P.S. And if someone has some pictures, please post them anyways or send me a link through PM, I would love to see some recent work done in Vallejo colors.
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Ye asked so ye shall recieve.
(https://www.40konline.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi51.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Ff352%2FAJB2K3%2FAlthan%2FWraith_Hawk1.png&hash=60c4717602e2dce971d83af8cf117f119273a4b1)
GW boltgun with Vallajo game blue. Tis the same shade as the GW equiv (sorry can't give colour names as I have forgoten the names :o)
BTW must add my last point.
I find I often waist more Vallajo paint then gw (not able to adiquitly measure yet >:( ) but find I actually use alot less paint then using GW's paints.
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gonna buy a 72 paint set of Vallejo paints to supplement my GW paints. But what is better for painting GW models, Game Colors or Model Colors?
thanks ~Arnold Schwarzenegger's right bicep~
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I have model color set and it works great for my IG. The game color set has a more vivid range and I hear its also not really water soluble and it designed to take more of a punishment. The model color I have heard gets damaged easily but I have had no problems with it.
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gonna buy a 72 paint set of Vallejo paints to supplement my GW paints. But what is better for painting GW models, Game Colors or Model Colors?
thanks ~Arnold Schwarzenegger's right bicep~
Well the Game Color range is almost identical to the GW paints range in terms of color chart. You get 17ml per tube (instead of GWs rip-off 12ml at 30% higher price) and a nice 'dropper' on the end of each tube for measuring out paints better.
The same goes for the Model Color range, except that the colors are really more suited towards traditional army style models (WWI/II etc). That said, there are some really nice colors in the VMC range which can be very useful when you don't want to have to mix paint constantly (some of the very dark grays, for example, are really nice for highlighting black).
So, in summary, I would say go for the VGC range if you don't already have most of the GW set, as they are essentially the same colors. Then buy additional VMC colors where you feel you might get a lot of use out of them.
Both have the same coverage and finish on GW models as each other (and the GW range).
Hope some of this helps,
S_C
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im looking specifically for Vallejo's 'teracotta' colour, as GW discontinued it for some strange reason, does anyone know if Vallejo sells individual colours.
Game Colours look more vibrant than model colours, as both my Dark Eldar army and my Tomb Kings army will be painted with a desert palette I think that the Games Colors might suit me best.
~Arnold Schwarzenegger's right bicep~
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Yeah you can get them by themselvs.
I get my stuff here
Game color http://www.thewarstore.com/vallejogamecolors.html (http://www.thewarstore.com/vallejogamecolors.html)
Model color http://www.thewarstore.com/vallejomodelcolors.html (http://www.thewarstore.com/vallejomodelcolors.html)