Topic: What you'd like to see stay/go/change for Eldar in 8th & Eldar News

[Aoitora]

Just wondering what people would like to see happen to their favourite space elves in 8th so thought Id open a discussion up.

Stay:
Battle Focus - this is probably my favourite rule in the whole game I suppose I just like moving my models around?

Aspects retaining all their specialised rules - Theyre all just so much more unique and better now than they were in older editions.

Craftworld warhost detachment and formations - Ive managed to arrange my 16k army in to 1x CWE Warhost, 2x CAD and 3x apoc formations. Its nice and tidy I hope I dont end up with units left out and becoming unbound.


Go:
Nothing I really want to see go. Battle focusing wraithguard irk me a bit  as I still picture them in my head as being slow and dimwitted I suppose. Half my 40k gaming life they had to test for stupidity and now theyre sprinting around.

Change:
More integration with ForgeWorld. Currently IA11 2nd ed allows you to add FW units in to a CWE Warhost which is great but it'd be even nicer if all this was spelled out in the core Eldar dex (or whatever it'll be called when it comes out).

Scatter bikes. Background wise it makes sense for the bonesingers to spend an extra few hours grafting a heavy weapon in place and every Eldar going to battle with the best equipment available but balance wise 1 in 3 might be best.

Wraithknight. I'm pretty sure this guy is going to under go some big changes.

That's all I wanted to say for now. Interested in seeing other peoples thoughts for Eldar in 8th. Overall I love the current dex and hope it doesn't change too much.

Topic title changed to reflect thread evolution - Iris.

[Saim-Dann]

G'day Aoitora!

Stay:
Battle Focus-Jetbikes pop-up ability-lance weapons rule.

Go:
I don't care. As long as it's not the above 3.

Change:
Wraithknights and formations stay in apoc.

 

[Fenris]

I have no love for battle focus, while it's both nice and fluffy to have, moving twice slows down the game a lot, I'm hoping for a high movement stat to repressent this instead. Since space marines are M6, eldar should be M8 or 9 IMO, possibly run 6" instead of D6 as it saves time.

Jetbikes and Wraith units should be re-balanced, but as terminators got 2 wounds, these units deserve it too. Because IMO wraithguards are eldars counterpart to terminators.

I'd very much like bonesingers as a "new" unit, with all those wounds they would be very effective in mending both bone and wraithbone, sort of techmarines that can heal everything. With vehicles getting wounds all they really need is the "renewer" power by default.

Formations need to go, unless they get really fluffy and balanced, 1 formation for each of the big craftworlds would be nice.

Just sketching something here:

Saim-Hann:
Windrider host + any amount of skimmers, all infantry units must have a transport vehicle they can fit inside. Bonus, may choose both who sets up first and separately who starts the game. Stealing the initiative is still possible, but no bonusses or re-rolls to doing so applies.

Iyanded:
Wraithhost + any amount of wraithguards/blades, no aspectwarriors or jetbikes, seer council replaced by shadowcouncil with spiritseers. Bonus, wraithguards/blades moves as fast as living eldar.

Biel-Tan:
Autarch, Khaine or PL + any amount of aspect warriors, no guardians or storm guardians.
Bonus BS & WS +1.

Alaitoc:
Illic or a generic HQ + any amount or rangers, may include exodites & corsairs. Bonus, S & T +1.

Ulthwé:
Eldrad or generic farseer + a seer council + any amount of guardians but all guardians that are not black guardians must have a warlock leader. Bonus, all spell casting gain +1 on their roll + adamantium will for all units.

[Saim-Dann]

G'day Fenris! Sounds like you want the 3rd ed codex back. Didn't mind those games myself. Think poor old Lyanded would get poisoned out of the game nowadays though.

[Fenris]

G'day Fenris! Sounds like you want the 3rd ed codex back. Didn't mind those games myself. Think poor old Lyanded would get poisoned out of the game nowadays though.

Good morning oh, wait it's 11 o clock, so good day to you too.

3rd ed; Fluffwise sure, except for the atrocities with the Avatar of Khaine, him merely working as an Autarch, I bet someone got them mixed up when writing that codex.
I do want the mechanics of 3rd ed back though, I'd rather have overwatch gone, as it interrupts the IGOUGO flow. The defending player (the players turn who it's not) should only be concerned with armour saves and removing models IMO, while casually having some coffee or snacks while plotting tactics for his/her next turn.

Iyanden should be vulnerable to poison, but with 2W wraithguards they should be fine, maybe a blessing spell that makes poison effect them less, like 2+ poisons becoming 3+ poisons or something?

Similarly Ulthwé should be weak against psycannons, and Saim-hann weak against gauss.

[Katamari Damacy]

I thought 6th and 7th Ed Eldar codices were great. I was sad when 6th was replaced so quickly - aside form the WS, I thought the Dex was rather good and well balanced. The 7th Ed. book is decent too but instead of fixing overpowered things, they added more of them. It's not a coincidence (sp) that the new Jetbikes were released at the same time, with Saim-Hann being the "featured" CW of the dex and allowing the All-Scatter Setup.

IMHO 7th Dex is very fluffy and all the Aspect Warriors have nice rules to go with that. Aside from questionable Formation Bonuses, our Aspect Warriors are all rather decent and well balanced. I'd like them to stay that way.

What I'm hoping for is this:
- Keep the good stuff and don't make me feel like an idiot for not playing certain units and/or setups.
- Eldar staying an elite force with "better-than-most-others" gear
- In case Aeldari replace all Eldar factions, I hope that all current units will stay in the game and retain their background
- Gav Thorpe writes a book for all the Phoenix Lords

[Irisado]

Stay:

Everything that was in the fourth/fifth edition Eldar codex.

Remove:

The Wraithknight and everything to do with allies, formations, and such the like.  I appreciate that it's not going to be possible to achieve much, if any, of this, because the core rules are unlikely to be altered along these lines.

Change:

Guardians need to have their stats reverted to how they were before the unjustified increase.  They should not have the same WS and BS as Aspect Warriors and Space Marines.

[Katamari Damacy]

Irisado, I think that the change you're hoping for may well take place. I don't see Guardians hitting on 3+ within the new ruleset.

[Irisado]

That's a good point.  I was forgetting about the fact the rules are moving towards a fixed hit roll, rather than relative hit rolls.  I would like to think that you're right in the light of this.

[Cavalier]

Stay: Battle Focus. I love battle focus, its so fun to plan out those moves, eying up the battlefield for LOS blocking terrain to hide your dudes after an attack run, or making those gutsy moves to get within melta range for my Fire Dragons.

Keep the Aspect Warriors the way they are (perhaps not Warp Spiders)... but Dark Reapers, Swooping Hawks, Striking Scorpions and Howling Banshees are excellent. I love their unique rules... keep them.

Also keep the deadly high volume of firepower, but just make us pay a price commensurate with the damage output. Scale it properly.

Change: Points increase on Scatter Lasers on Jetbikes, or reduce their strength by a points. Dropping the BS/WS of the Guardians, or pull Jetbikes with heavy weapons out of the troops section and put them in FA. Whatever the case may be, Jetbikes should not be the hardest hitting units in the Eldar codex.

Turn Vypers into the Attack Bike of Jetbikes. Give it Jetbike Moves, allow it to join Jetbike units.

And as always... GIVE THE PHOENIX LORDS INVULN. SAVES. If Dire Avenger Exarchs have access to a shimmershield and every Autarch gets one, give them to the damn Phoenix Lords.

Drop: I know D-Class weaponry will no longer exist, but Distortion Weaponry does not need to be that deadly. I understand fluff-wise what they are going for but its not good for the game. I want to use my Wraithguard... I've got 20 of them and I'm not using them so long as they can down Titans in a single volley.

Summary: Overall I love how the Eldar work in 7th edition, I just think it was under-costed in terms of points.

[Lord of Winter and War]

I think folks should keep in mind this is not going to be like 6th-7th, but more like 2nd-3rd.

Things are going to change a lot.

I wouldn't be surprised if points are increased in units all across the game to make games on a smaller scale.

The feel and battlefield roles of units are not going to change, but expect to see rules change for everything.

.

Remove:

The Wraithknight and everything to do with allies, formations, and such the like.  I appreciate that it's not going to be possible to achieve much, if any, of this, because the core rules are unlikely to be altered along these lines.

You really, really have to let this go.

[magenb]

No idea, as the rule set is changing, not enough detail has been release to guage what will and will not work. For instance, scatlaser may only generate a single W, so their effectiveness vs Termies and tanks goes down, but are still a good option for hordes.

Change:
Guardians need to have their stats reverted to how they were before the unjustified increase.  They should not have the same WS and BS as Aspect Warriors and Space Marines.

Fluff wise an Eldar is meant to be better than human in those regards, but the D6 system just doesn't allow for small degree's of change. ractially though a number of guardians are going to be Ex-aspect. I would imagine their tanks/mechs would have targetting systems, were as the IG just cheap out

[Irisado]

The background emphasises the civilian nature of Eldar Guardians.  The fact that ordinary citizens were as good as a fully trained professional soldier, i.e. an Imperial Guardsman, meant that their previous stats were more representative than is the case now.  Either way, I would be astonished if Guardians end up with the same to hit values as Aspect Warriors in the forthcoming edition.

[The GrimSqueaker]

The background emphasises the civilian nature of Eldar Guardians.  The fact that ordinary citizens were as good as a fully trained professional soldier, i.e. an Imperial Guardsman, meant that their previous stats were more representative than is the case now.

We're in full agreement as usual. Stat creep meant that 3's were seen as somehow weak rather than actually being fully trained yet not superhuman. Guardians are not Aspect Warriors nor Marines and they never should have been treated as such.

[Fenris]

I wouldn't mind having the old WS/BS on guardians, as long as they get costed properly. Currently they cost more than a Tau Fire warrior which is way off. A guardian should only be slightly more than a guardsman IMO.
These are entirely made up stats, something like:
M8 WS3 BS3 S3 T3 W1 A1 Ld7 Sv 5+ 70 points for 10 models (1-3 units/FOC-slot)
Shuriken Catapult: Assault 2 Range 18" S4 AP -1 d1. (no bladestorm!)

This means the catapult will get a buff in range and has better AP than the bolter, but loses it's rending capabilities.

After seeing the rules for shooting pistols in CC, I'm hoping most CC aspects will get a buff of A+1 as base value.

[Lord of Winter and War]

Move 8 seems really high. I'll expect most elder to have a 6" move. Maybe some Harlequins and Dark Eldar with faster movement values. Points are hard to guess, as everything will change. I expect most units will go up in price.

I feel like if the catapult has rend, it'll be 12" range. But, I find it hard to see basic weapons with rend. I'd expect bladestorm will stay, and wounds of 6 would be at -1 or -2 rend.

The background emphasises the civilian nature of Eldar Guardians.  The fact that ordinary citizens were as good as a fully trained professional soldier, i.e. an Imperial Guardsman, meant that their previous stats were more representative than is the case now.

We're in full agreement as usual. Stat creep meant that 3's were seen as somehow weak rather than actually being fully trained yet not superhuman. Guardians are not Aspect Warriors nor Marines and they never should have been treated as such.

I agree as well. The BS boost across the board helped contribute to the domination elder currently has.

[Grand Master Lomandalis]

I agree that M8 for Eldar is too high.  6" makes sense for their speed.  That is enabling them to keep pace with genetically engineered walking bad asses that stand 8' tall and have ridiculously long strides that are enhanced by their top of the line armour.

[The GrimSqueaker]

Careful, you'll summon Kage who'll passively aggressively demand that Eldar armour (of all kinds) is vastly superior to everything else ever.

[Partninja]

If a marine is M6 I suspect CWE, DE and Harlies to be base 7. In one of their statements they specifically say marines are 6, elves are faster, and gaunts even faster. These would be base movements. Banshees could probably get M8 or such, while Wraithguard would be 3-5 in comparison.

I'm hoping blade storm gets changed to something more reliable. Shuriken weapons could have a base -1 modifier. Maybe the cannon has a higher mod on top of whatever the new Strength V toughness chart will do. Makes it more viable over the scatter laser, which would probably still put out the same volume of fire, but offer no save mod in favor of more range and dice.

I hope windriders stay as is, but probably adjust their points and/or basic FOC slot. If they went back to a 1:3 ratio that would be a lot of wasted sprue bits.

In regards to guardian WS/BS. Their previous stats were ok. I used them still. I would be sad to see it drop as it made those units SO much more viable. While I generally agree with Irisado, I'm just being greedy. A better fix, IMO, would be to boost the aspects a bit more to compensate for current guardian stats. The aspect host stat boost gave them that extra umph they needed to compete with their more frail frames (compared to a marine). Alternatively, give a slight boost to guardian weaponry to help compensate. Catapults could have a longer range, or perhaps get two heavy weapons per 10 models.

If they roll the black guardians into the overall Eldar options, they could keep their increased stats, and drop basic guardians back down to their previous stats. Adjust points as needed obviously.

[The GrimSqueaker]

A better fix, IMO, would be to boost the aspects a bit more to compensate for current guardian stats. The aspect host stat boost gave them that extra umph they needed to compete with their more frail frames (compared to a marine).

Yet this is how we rapidly end up spinning down the rabbit hole as one stat increase cascades into a world of madness. This was 5-th7th where everything new had to be better and so on and so on. Sure, you're allowed to want it and that is expected. In the same manner, we're allowed to call bullamphetamine parrot and fly the Oh Hell No flag of respectability and proper decorum.