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Modeling => Projects Blog => Topic started by: Chrono on September 21, 2007, 12:18:39 AM

Title: Making a Game table! [FINAL PIC!]
Post by: Chrono on September 21, 2007, 12:18:39 AM
So as the subject describes. I am just starting my next project for the next month or so.  I am making a 4' x 6' game table. It is for 40k, but won't be city fight or urban at all. The table will be non modular, (going for look over playability here), and hopefully will be quite well done (but i guess we will have to see how it turns out. i hope it isn't disgusting).  I plan on having a lot of rolling hills, a cliff, river, mabe a small canyon type thing that the river will run through in one area. Anyways I will share more about the details when things started getting seriously accomplished.

Yesterday i made a trip to home depot and picked up.
- 4'x6' x 1/2" playwood
- 3x 1"x4"x6'
- 2x 1"x4"x46.5"
For the wooden base

- 3 sheets of 2'x8'x1" HD insulating foam
- 1 sheet of 2'x8'x0.5" HD insulating foam
plus i have a bunch left from other terrain projects at home already
this is for the landscape of course

- Got some heavyduty glue which can be used with foam without melting it. To glue the layers together and to glue the foam to the wood base.
- got 400 mL of white pva glue. I really hope this will be enough for flocking the entire board. But i can always go out and buy more. Anyone have experience with flocking LARGE areas??

- Purchased 60 trees off ebay (mix of two trees) for about 45$ with shipping included.
 - they are 110mm high by 54 mm wide. So aren't Giagantic but they are on the large end of model train trees without getting into the 8" tall ones which cost way to much money. WIll take a while to get these though.. all the way from china :(

Okay. So it seems like i have some stuff that i can start to work with for the next while and keep me busy.
I was wondering if people had some helpful tips that i can keep inmind before i get to far into it and can't go back to do things a better way.
Also where can i find a bag of like course sand similar to the sand with small pebbles in it by GW? and i don't mean from a model shop. I heard fish tank gravel was good. Anyone has experience with this stuff. How fine does it get.. since i would think fish tank gravel is huge for WH scale.

My friend is letting me borrow his massive hot wire cutter which can be hand held or mounted, so that should ease the process of cutting the foam A LOT.

Well, I hope to start posting some pics for u guys soon. Wish me good luck, and any suggestions / tips would be helpfull.

p.s. I am using these two tables as my inspiration:
http://oz.games-workshop.com/games/lotr/hobby/terrain/table/main.htm
http://uk.games-workshop.com/theruinofarnor/arnor-tables/1/
though i don't plan mine being being laid out like that. Just in terms of my goal for quality. Though my will have more forests so u can actually play a game and hide behind things.

- chrono
Title: Re: Making a Game table!
Post by: Schrodinger on September 21, 2007, 08:31:13 AM
In terms of sand, I have found that a fine grain sand works well for base texturing and can be readily obtained in many sandlots and city parks (Hey, I pay my taxes, and the kids take it home by the shoefull anyway). 

To break up the monotony, you could mix in a slightly larger grain of sand.  In my comunity, there are several sandbag assembly sites for public use for when the hurricanes come (yea Florida!).  These areas are a great source for slightly larger-grain sand.

The ratio of fine to course sand will give you widely variant looks for a surface.  I recommend trail batches until you get a look you like.

For larger bits, on the scale of rock rubble and brick-sized hunks of stone, ask a friend who owns cats for a cup or two of (CLEAN) kitty-litter.  It contains a lovely variety of shapes and sizes, and the size you want can easily be sorted out by using a sifter.

I haven't used the clumping kind though, so this is merely speculation; however, you should be careful if the litter forms clumps, as that may cause instability when gluing it down. 
Title: Re: Making a Game table!
Post by: Chrono on September 25, 2007, 03:34:54 PM
Just an update. I am well on may way with the game table right now. Just finished glueing all the hills together onto the wood frame. Today I am starting to putty, and will begin sanding everything super smooth once putty is dry.
And I am taking WIP pics. So when i am all done I will make a big post with pics.

Oh i was wondering how people attached trees to their terrain. (baseless trees). As i mentioned before i am waiting for the delivery of the trees i got off ebay. And the trunk doesn't have a base so it is kinda like a really thick wire that just ends at the bottom. My board is made of foam so i know u could just poke them through. But i want them to be very stable and not just start to fall out due to the foam getting lose around the puncture hole everytime a tree gets slightly touched. AND i don't want to stick TOO much of the trunk into the foam since that would totally make the trees much shorter and out of proportion.

At first i didn't even worry about it, it seemed like such a easy task, but now that i am thinking about it i can't really figure out the best way to attach the trees. Plus i have to attach them AFTER the texture is put on and the table is primed. Though clearly i can re sand / prime areas around the tree. But I don't want to prime the table with all the trees on it.

Anyways. Thoughts would be of much help.
Title: Re: Making a Game table!
Post by: Schrodinger on September 26, 2007, 07:49:37 AM
Seems to me that pinning the trees to the board would work.
(Drill out some of the tree base, insert length of wire, stab other end into base.)

If, once the hole is made in the foam, you apply glue to the pin and bottom of the tree, then you should have a securely fixed tree.

Between the putty layer providing stiffness, and the tree's base spreading out the force, I doubt you will have foam crumbling on you from casual use/abuse.

I've played around with a Spackle/PVA mix applied to foam, and the surface becomes quite durable.  It took some serious effort to put a dent in the skin with my fingernail.  If you have trouble getting the pin through your putty, just hammer a tack into the board to start the hole.
Title: Re: Making a Game table!
Post by: Chrono on September 27, 2007, 12:11:52 AM
thanks for the response.
I have thought about pinning trees down. But the problem is that the trunks of these trees that i got are thin and actually might be metal though i can't be sure of the second part till i have them. So it would be like impossible to drill a hole in a thick wire for all purpose lets just call it. but if It turns out to be possible that would make them really nice and sturdy.

hmm i just thought about something that may work. U know those plastic things u jam in drilled holes in like concrete etc such that a screw will fit in more tightly. what if i used the smaller ones and pre punch some holes in the foam (they would be like 0.5 cm diamater holes.. but the top would be puttied up after so it should be cool).
then jammed the base of the trees into those assuming i can fine a plastic nub thingy with a opening to make a tight fit with the tree base.
Title: Re: Making a Game table!
Post by: Gerrie on September 27, 2007, 04:20:48 AM
Instead of covering entire hills with layers of glue and static grass, I've seen people sticking pieces of gaming grass mat to the surface.

Please keep us up to date on this project, as I'm planning to start working on some modular terrain as well.

I'm curious how you are going to texture large surfaces. My idea was to mix some sand into the paint, after gluing larger rocks on the surface, then drybrush.
Title: Re: Making a Game table!
Post by: Dreades on September 27, 2007, 04:35:29 AM
with trees see if u can leave them separate on little bases of there own. the reason for this is that if u have lots of trees its a %#$$^ to move models in. and this way u can move trees around the table depending on battle to battle. and if u want specific glades just pout something to identify forests like darker grass or something. use flying stands with the basing material right to the edges for trees. this will help them match and not make it to obvious. just a point on  practicality.
Title: Re: Making a Game table!
Post by: Schrodinger on September 27, 2007, 07:47:09 AM
Yea, modular trees do add to practicality and playability, but Chrono specifically said he was going for a non-modular board, and values looks over playability.

With that said, I think he should definitely attach the trees directly to the base, as they will look better than a freestanding based tree.

Dreades did bring up a good point about the forests though.  You should alter the color, texture, or composition of the flocking on the table to define a precise boarder to the forests.  This will help in looks to define the specific region of a forest without having to overload areas with the trees, and will also help when it comes to gaming to know precisely where the terrain begins and ends.
Title: Re: Making a Game table!
Post by: Chrono on September 27, 2007, 10:32:52 PM
The reason i want to attach the trees directly to the board is for pure looks. I have a grass mat and tonnes of terrain i can put on it for a more modular game. This table is kinda just for a good looking game, and as a project in just making terrain for the sake of terrain. And if I have some extra trees i will probably base them or put them on terrain pieces that can move around.

Using different flock around the trees is a great idea for distinguishing where the forest starts / ends. As trees alone would make it a bit complicated in the game. I plan on putting some serious thought into the placement of the forest clusters such that the game will be balanced and fun.

@ gerrie : That is kinda neat. I think i was actually reading about it yesterday how like woodland scenics makes a sheet that molds to hills too. However i  believe that would be even more expensive than just flocking normally. (and i need to watch how much i spend on this table.. i am at like 135 $ already :S). Also by using static grass, i can control exactly where i want the grass better, and avoid sharp contrasts between a cut edge of a grass matt and the texture underneath (dirt). As i plan to have dirt showing through in many areas.

as far as how i am planning on texturing the large surface. Although I am not at that stage yet in production, (maybe in a couple days), i plan on just using a vast amound of white glue and spreading it over the board section by section, while sprinkling sand all over it (fine and coarse). This will be the last step before painting. The static grass will be put on after the table is all painted up.

update:
I finally FINALLY got my hands on the "wood" GW uses for rocks on their tables. It took me 2 days of searching. and for anyone who would like to save a lot of time, listen up! What u want to buy is a bag of "PINE BARK NUGGETS" (note get the big ones not the mini ones). I was following a stupid trail of suggestions from gw people and websites and clearly no one really knew what they ACTUALLY used. Everyone said woodchips and multch. that is nothing close to what u want. so again. if u want the "wood" rocks. buy "PINE BARK NUGGETS"!!!!!!. Oh and i got some at a local nursery (garden store). and homedepot, rona, and canadian tire garden centres don't have it so don't bother. Make sure u call before hand or u will waste and entire night like me.
I think they cost around 7$ for a HUGE bag. luckily the guy at the place just said take some out of a hole which was in one of the bags :) for free. So i filled up a random grocery bag with the bark nuggets and left without spending a dime :D. ( what i am trying to say is u don't have to use dirty stuff from your backyard which is very inconsistent and probably filled with bugs... just to save money. I think most garden stores will let u take a good amount for FREE since u don't need a 20 kg bag or whatever it is. Same goes with sand (u can just take like cup fulls from open bags).)

Today i glued all the bark nuggets i got into place and spackled all the hard edges on the table where layers met. It was a long process, and i want to put a second coat of spackle on a few areas tomorrow to try and get a more even transition between layers. It i a very messy job, and i am having trouble finding time for it all. Especially since i am a 3rd year engineering student at the university of toronto, and with 30+ hours of class a week i don't get home before 6. And it gets dark at 7:20 here :(. But today i rigged up a work area in my garage so i can work with light "essentially outside" as late as i want. :D this will definitely help me speed things up.
Title: Re: Making a Game table!
Post by: Gerrie on September 28, 2007, 03:52:31 AM
I tried covering large areas with flock once, with a layer of wood glue, and then normal static grass. But this grass kept getting loose, even after a few games. So how do you plan to glue the grass down? and be sure it stays there?
Title: Re: Making a Game table!
Post by: MrJuice on September 28, 2007, 02:07:34 PM
400ml of glue is definately not going to be enough. I buy my glue in 4L jugs, think its about 20 bucks at crappy tire but im sure you could find it cheaper if you look around. When your ready to flock, grab yourself  a mini 5" roller and a small paint tray to apply the glue. Works great and is really quick. Water it down with only enough water to increase the fluidity a bit. Too much water and it wont hold the flock very well and it will come off easier. Once youve applied the flock and the glue has dried. Grab a large paint brush and give the surface a quick go over to remove any loose flock. Get some more PVA and water it down a little more than before and go over the flocked surface with the paint roller again to give a nice solid seal. You will end up with a very durable playing surface. When thats dry apply any static grass you want to add.


Title: Re: Making a Game table!
Post by: BrotherCaptainRace on September 28, 2007, 03:34:08 PM
This may come too little, too late, but I hate playing on sand-covered surfaces.  For modular pieces, it's OK (but not ideal).  I used the Woodland Scenics ReadyGrass Mat to surface my own table.  IIRC, you want to make a static table with built-in terrain features, so a mat may not be ideal in your situation.

If I had to choose between flock, static grass, or sand - I'd choose the flock first, then the grass and sand last.

Regardless of what you do, you'll need LOTS of glue.
Title: Re: Making a Game table!
Post by: Chrono on October 1, 2007, 09:46:32 AM
Hehe ya. I wasn't thinking that 400 mL of glue was going to be enough. But I figured I could always buy more very easily.
and thanks for the advice on glueing down the sand and putting a seal coat of glue on top. Also, would u suggest pva glue for hte flock too?? I noticed that in the GW tutorial they used spray can glue... but for some reason that seems really weak to me.
And i planned on matt varnishing hte entire table after to seal things down.

@ brother captainrace. The sand is just the base layer. Most of hte table will be flocked/static grassed.

Also I am done sanding and spackling :D. But now I decided to put a river in again, so i am going to dig that out soon. Probably a pretty shallow one since a) i only have 1" base foam to work with, and b) fake water is expensive and takes a long time to dry in a deep area. I was going to use envirotex lite for the water. I have never used it before but heard great things about it. Has anyone here used it? Advice? Like can i poor 1/2" deep area at once. Or do i need to layer it? since i heard that although layering is good.. u really don't have to do it. Plus does it dry to a non tacky/spongy surface? Also would 32 oz, cover 5-6 ft of river at 1/2" deep and 2.5" width?
Title: Re: Making a Game table!
Post by: Gerrie on October 1, 2007, 02:49:57 PM
Why avoid the spraycan of paint? It's quite sticky stuff from what I have heard...

please keep sharing your ideas and experiences here, it's very useful :)
Title: Re: Making a Game table!
Post by: Chrono on October 4, 2007, 02:23:34 PM
Sorry about not replying in a while. the reasons were
a) 40k online wasn't working.
b) my computer got F#@#'d up. (my harddrive is basically gone... or at least my c partition. So Until i get a new one which should be soon. i have no computer at home.. (my brother doesn't let me use his :@). And i have just been using the computers at school here. (i am at school right now).  But i am very happy that my brother told me that he was able to copy all the files off my d drive.. which i hope is true. Since that is where my WIP progress pics for a majority of the table were. (I erased them from my camera after uploading them - who knew my hard drive would crash). So.... Lets hope that is true and i still have them. so that all hte ones i have taken since then which are still on my camera can be added to it.

anyways. I have been really busy with school so progress is not as fast as it could be. But i try and get in an hour or so a day to work on it.

I have no reason to avoid spray glue. I just have never used it before, and the idea of it seems a bit odd to me. But hey if it works then why not do it. Would 1 can of it be good enough to flock an entire board? (grass .. not the sand). And it is actually quite sticky then it would seem way better than pva glue for attaching hte flock, since i don't think spreading pva glue ontop of sand is as easy as it is on top of bare foam.

Update:
I put in a river (well actually 2 rivers : 1 larger one going across a corner about 4 ft long, and 1 small one across the opposite corner about 1.5 ft long) and foot path which goes across most of the board.

For the  big river i first cut out a 1cm deep path that was pretty rough and about 1" wide with a hobby knife. From testing with a heat gun, i found that hte steaper the walls of the cut the better the heat would be contained to the river area (to not make a 6" wide river.. :S). so i basically cut out a rectangular cross section into the foam 1" cm deep and 1" wide with corners. I borrowed a heat gun from a friend and used it to shape the river. Btw, it is A LOT HARDER than you would think. First off, the texture it melts into foam is definitely not smooth!! Like u can get a small 1mm deep smooth area with it.. but anything more there starts to be a rough surface, with strings, and holes etc. For the river i kinda actually liked it though, since it gave the base a texture which is pretty neat. Even though after i glue rocks ot hte bottom u won't really notice it anymore. But for all those people who think a heat gun is a magic way of getting a river and that u can control it easily, u are completely wrong. make sure u practice though before on spare foam. If it weren't for the experimenting with cutting a guide for the heat gun, my river would have ruined the table. (at first i tried with no guide, then i tried with thick/thin/deep/wipe/sharp/soft guides (the area i cut out before with a hobby knife)). Anyways Also due ot the fact that it is hard to control exactly where the foam will just melt away, make sure u have some clearance on either side in case it goes  wrong. And my big river turned out deeper than i had originally planned, since in order to keep shaping with hte gun i had to go deeper. So it is almost the full 1" deep. and in a couple spots i hit the wood which i then spackled up.

For the small river i didn't use the heat gun and instead just have an area bounded by hills and cliffs that hte river and run through (like a little valley lets call it). So i don't have to dig down or anything. This one is smaller and will also be shallower. though i might paint hte depth in to the flat base of hte river. All i really had to do for this river prep, is to spackle the area where layers meet to ensure that any fake water product i add won't seep between them.

So essentially i have the rivers in place. They still don't have flock, paint or water obviously so there is still much more work to be done.

The foot path i made was also using the heat gun. THough not as intensly, so that i could jsut lower the foam along the path by a few mm. It worked pretty well though again the surface had many small holes and a couple larger ones due ot inconsistancies in the foam. Spackle after this solved the problem but it just is annoying. The only advantage of hte heat gun for this is that it makes it very gradual and realistic, and causes a bit of warping and discontinuities in the road height (very slight.. don't worry) that make it look more realistic.  Time wise and including the spackling.. i would say sanding the path in would be just as fast. ANd if u have a small power sander (which i don't) it would be way faster and better than the heat gun.

Also a huge problem i now found out with a heat gun is the foam in the area where u used the heat gun becomes extremely hard. I mean U CAN"T SANT IT hard. Well maybe if u spend 2 hours sanding a small spot u could .. but for all purposes u can't.

Um. other than that. the only other stuff i have done was sand the entire table once again, after a bit more spackling.

I am now ready to start putting sand all over the board. Though i am not sure when i will get to that. Still don't have the sand, and don't know what i should use. Is there anything wrong with like playground sand???

Title: Re: Making a Game table!
Post by: MrJuice on October 4, 2007, 02:34:48 PM
Spray can glue is great stuff ( I use stuff from 3M ) but not for applying flock or texture. Kinda hard for me to explain why, it just doesnt do the job very well, you can trust me on that one. PVA works well for flock because the moisture content wicks through the flock material and gives a very good hold, something you wont get with the spray stuff.
Title: Re: Making a Game table!
Post by: Chrono on October 4, 2007, 02:50:03 PM
hmm. well if that is the case i wouldn't want to use it for flocking.

I am using pva for sure for the sand.
but I just figured since GW used the spray glue in their tutorial to attach the static grass, that it would not only work but be a easier method of doing it. But the last thing i want is a sloppy hold on the static grass and having it slowly but surely come off in game.

I know pva glue always does a good job, and it is what i use on my bases of models to attach static grass. So i could always just stick with it  and get a lot more.

I still am waiting for the trees .. but it has only been 8 business days so far and it said 7-14 business day shipping. but I still am not sure how i will attach these. And I need to go out and buy some envirotex which seems pretty pricy for the large amounts i need. And then i can hopefully do some tests with tinting and mixture/sealing, while i am flocking and painting the board so that when that is done i can immediatly get the water in. I fear that if i don't put it in soon the weather will get MUCH MUCH colder and will make bad conditions for the resin to cure :S. (i am doing it in my garage which is essentially outside).


Title: Re: Making a Game table!
Post by: Plague Tower of Nurgle on October 4, 2007, 03:05:22 PM
do you have to attach the trees to the board? you could always put them onto some hardboard for terrain that can be randomly placed each game.
Title: Re: Making a Game table!
Post by: Gerrie on October 4, 2007, 03:09:13 PM
A while ago I was browsing the forum of a friend's gaming group and found this thread called 'project lava field': http://www.xhammer.be/forum/viewtopic.php?t=550 (http://www.xhammer.be/forum/viewtopic.php?t=550). It's in dutch, but the pictures speak for themselves. The only thing I should translate is that the guy pictured there suffered from severe headaches after using the heat gun in his garage :) Better do this outside or with plenty of ventilation.

Btw I've done a little test with mixing some sand in paint, works great to give plain surfaces a bit of texture.

EDIT: If the trees are made out of solid material I'd say pin them on the board.
Title: Re: Making a Game table!
Post by: Chrono on October 5, 2007, 10:15:15 AM
Hehe, ya definitely need some serious ventillation when using a heat gun. I had the garage door open and a mask one. But man that amphetamine parrot stinks and I know that hte fumes are horrible for you.  No headaches for me though. But ya those pics are a good representation of what happens when u use a heat gun. i just hate how the surface becomes unworkable after u use a heat gun. but in my case it doesn't really matter. But if u wanted to still be able to do stuff with it, you would be out of luck.

ya pinning seems like a solid option. I just hope that the trees i got can be pinned (though i am leaning to the fact that they won't be able to, judging on the pics). Does anyone know of other methods that model train scenery builders use to attach their trees? Since often a lot of model train trees are very small .. like 6 cm tall to fit with the scale. ANd i know for a fact that these small trees have pretty damn slim tree trunks. So i doubt they could pin them and must have another method.

Um @ deathklaat
Ya i am definitely attaching them to the board. ANy extra trees i have will go on seperate terrain pieces that can eb moved around for when i don't play on this board i am making.
Title: Re: Making a Game table!
Post by: Plague Tower of Nurgle on October 5, 2007, 10:28:33 AM
could you post links to the trees so that we could give better suggestions?
Title: Re: Making a Game table!
Post by: Chrono on October 5, 2007, 10:34:00 AM
ya. see that is kinda a problem. since after odering them.. the link on ebay with the pics doesn't show up anymore. And even if it somehow was still up. my links to the product were on my computer which is currently broken. AND i didn't bother to save the pics of the tree to post up...
but here i will try to find something similar.
http://cgi.ebay.ca/50-GREEN-MODEL-TREE-PACK-9-Cm-3-5_W0QQitemZ130158269074QQihZ003QQcategoryZ11648QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
well it isn't the same.
mine are a bit taller and are darker green. but the trunk is similar size.
Title: Re: Making a Game table!
Post by: Plague Tower of Nurgle on October 5, 2007, 10:52:08 AM
what if you were to get a piece of tubing and inserted a bit of the trunk into it and glued it solid? you then could put the tree into the board securely.
Title: Re: Making a Game table!
Post by: Chrono on October 9, 2007, 09:40:26 AM
Ya i was thinking of something like that too, but am slightly worried will cause a lot of damage to the board. I can't wait to get the trees and actually see if i can pin them or not.

So i flocked the entire table yesterday. That was quite a lot of work. And I needed about 600 mL of glue. So my next step is painting :D.. well after i touch up an edge of the table that my hockey net fell onto. :( (but very small amount of damage). I am going to prime it all black, and i was wondering if I should use my friends large airbrush that he uses for painting cars, or just stick with black spray paint.

Also, does anyone know of a good place i can buy bulk static grass???
I don't want to use GW static grass, and I really hate the woodland scenic stuff.
And it is so hard to find any stuff that is nice and in bulk. I live in toronto btw. But I found a great sight online that sold 1 lb of many different kinds of static grass for 19$. However the shipping was 16-25$ and would take 6-14 weeks or something. So i didnt' end up buying it. I already went to many model train shops in my area and no one has like anything. And if they have something it is always a small bag of woodland scenic stuff.
Title: Re: Making a Game table!
Post by: Gerrie on October 9, 2007, 03:33:49 PM
how about some pictures of your project?
Title: Re: Making a Game table!
Post by: MrJuice on October 9, 2007, 03:37:38 PM
CHRONO:  What site did you find the static grass you mentioned, I wouldnt mind checking it out. What dont you like about the woodland scenic stuff.
Title: Re: Making a Game table!
Post by: Chrono on October 10, 2007, 09:36:00 AM
@ MRJUICE
I found that static grass at http://www.scenicexpress.com/
It is a pretty sweet site with a lot of nice stuff on it.  Just wasn't what i ended up deciding on because of hte shipping time and cost. If u aren't in a rush though.. i think it is great. Plus i think if u order mroe than 2lbs of stuff the shipping is better.

It seems that the woodland scenic stuff doesn't have the multicoloured hairs mixed in to give the grass some dimension. Like the GW stuff has some yellow and like redish grass strands in the green grass, which i think make it look better. Plus i wasn't happy with other woodland scenic products like the realistic water and want to try some other companies out.

@ Gerrie
hehe. I suppose i can put my pics up. Though I don't have my computer yet (Still being fixed). But i am going to go pick it up tonight. So I can't upload anything till i get that back up and running. So either tonight or tomorrow, i can upload whatever pics i have.

UPDATE~

- I fixed up that small chip in the table from the hockey net falling over on it :P
- I drove all over the place trying to find a black spray paint that wouldn't melt foam (aka.. water, not solvent based). And I tried walmart, homedepot and a small craft store, before finding it at Michaels (a big craft store here in canada). The spray paint says it can be used on styrofoam, and is intended for like flowers and such so i better not melt my foam. Though i am sure it won't, but i still haven't tried it yet. I will as always test spray another piece of foam before i go straight at my table. It was quite pricey though for the 2 spray paint cans i got (2 x flat black).  They were like 7$ each! and i was tired of driving around and didn't care anymore so i just got them. U probably could find some cheaper ones. But make sure they are safe for foam!
- While i was at Michaels, i knew they sold envirotex there, so i purchased a 32 oz kit. Which was the biggest they had there, and hope it will be enough for my 2 rivers. (1 L approximately). This also was expensive!!! around 34$!!! I am kinda afraid to use this stuff.. the two components seem so harmful to your body in anyway. Just breathing the fumes in is like very potent. And touching it :S. Well when ever i get around to adding the water i will try my best to not kill myself and use goggles/gloves/and some kind of amazing mask.
- I went to ebay to search for my flock solution.  And gave in to what i saw. So i purchased 3 packages of static grass off this one guy and with shipping it cost me 18.50$ approximately. The packages are appoximately100g each by inspection. And the colour is medium green. Only issue is it is coming by USPS First Class Mail International, from arizona usa, to me in toronto. And i think that type of shipping is the cheapest u can get from USPS. And it doesn't even have a time estimate on the site. For every otehr type it does, but for this type it says (time varies) or some bs like that. So lets hope it comes this year :P.

So i basically did a lot of shopping yesterday so that i can now continue working on the table. And now i can prime it at least, so i can begin the painting process.

this table is also costing me quite a bit though i have noticed. i am probably going just over 200$ right now. So that isn't good :( . But if u don't have trees or water .. u would be able to make a much cheaper table.
Title: Re: Making a Game table!
Post by: Chrono on October 11, 2007, 10:59:20 PM
okay here are some in progress pics.
the primed table pics aren't up.. and haven't been taken yet. But i am basically done priming. I just need to get 1 more can of spray to finish it off perfectly.

(https://www.40konline.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.djartificial.com%2Fphotogallery%2FWarhammerTable%2Fn28113123_38891389_2091.jpg&hash=98d6917ea71cdc0c3a3603a6cfa691b1400bd127)
(https://www.40konline.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.djartificial.com%2Fphotogallery%2FWarhammerTable%2Fn28113123_38891390_2442.jpg&hash=5cd931c3e7665f11ff23f994bbb7926bdcd84bf3)
(https://www.40konline.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.djartificial.com%2Fphotogallery%2FWarhammerTable%2Fn28113123_38891391_2765.jpg&hash=fa0edfd7b46d8799108fffeb02e51eb55def1624)
(https://www.40konline.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.djartificial.com%2Fphotogallery%2FWarhammerTable%2Fn28113123_38891392_3103.jpg&hash=48cb51a70b12d049583d832515a871b7b641590b)
(https://www.40konline.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.djartificial.com%2Fphotogallery%2FWarhammerTable%2Fn28113123_38891393_3429.jpg&hash=61884d7330a4aabcce163dfaa02575c79aec9fc2)
(https://www.40konline.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.djartificial.com%2Fphotogallery%2FWarhammerTable%2Fn28113123_38891394_3759.jpg&hash=901f0aef306107a3c46428d19f0a8d410a1e374e)
(https://www.40konline.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.djartificial.com%2Fphotogallery%2FWarhammerTable%2Fn28113123_38891395_4100.jpg&hash=7838bf7d64b6e53054e01a3ad4690aa77e05a115)
(https://www.40konline.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.djartificial.com%2Fphotogallery%2FWarhammerTable%2Fn28113123_38891396_4432.jpg&hash=8aa8dac59245f10fcca240f7f48c0b9e8b8c7f79)
(https://www.40konline.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.djartificial.com%2Fphotogallery%2FWarhammerTable%2Fn28113123_38891397_4757.jpg&hash=1cb5b5cc513adda37285aedff61d59a32d7141ba)
(https://www.40konline.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.djartificial.com%2Fphotogallery%2FWarhammerTable%2Fn28113123_38891398_5077.jpg&hash=76c1a322c49b8913433ae590e86a5846d66d86c3)
(https://www.40konline.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.djartificial.com%2Fphotogallery%2FWarhammerTable%2Fn28113123_38891399_5399.jpg&hash=a0198ded37a6f24c88fd2154d6e77bf73b9fb998)
(https://www.40konline.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.djartificial.com%2Fphotogallery%2FWarhammerTable%2Fn28113123_38891400_5721.jpg&hash=2727d862dd8d758a5df4220aa0c54b76d840dc69)
(https://www.40konline.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.djartificial.com%2Fphotogallery%2FWarhammerTable%2Fn28113123_38891401_6063.jpg&hash=de0366d440586355ce05d15cb1fbae8c29a7e20b)
(https://www.40konline.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.djartificial.com%2Fphotogallery%2FWarhammerTable%2Fn28113123_38891402_6415.jpg&hash=d6241859d1a4bbe032a2a79282e8eb2ba4a387ad)
(https://www.40konline.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.djartificial.com%2Fphotogallery%2FWarhammerTable%2Fn28113123_38891403_6743.jpg&hash=e688598e56ae075fe0acf6139b368b9a0b95b234)
(https://www.40konline.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.djartificial.com%2Fphotogallery%2FWarhammerTable%2Fn28113123_38891404_7076.jpg&hash=3c96805653a92354528e76fc2eb1187a27a20d23)
(https://www.40konline.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.djartificial.com%2Fphotogallery%2FWarhammerTable%2Fn28113123_38891407_8093.jpg&hash=9491abbf989739211b2c930a01971ef8afb399ed)
(https://www.40konline.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.djartificial.com%2Fphotogallery%2FWarhammerTable%2Fn28113123_38891408_8480.jpg&hash=0797628b5de031355d31152802dd2094b3ce49b9)
(https://www.40konline.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.djartificial.com%2Fphotogallery%2FWarhammerTable%2Fn28113123_38891409_8808.jpg&hash=ca47756c2f38572de40db7250f5521bcf116e9d5)
(https://www.40konline.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.djartificial.com%2Fphotogallery%2FWarhammerTable%2Fn28113123_38891410_9159.jpg&hash=872cb6eaadc184bc19a3d28f5be083aab2d5ff6f)
(https://www.40konline.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.djartificial.com%2Fphotogallery%2FWarhammerTable%2Fn28113123_38891411_9522.jpg&hash=b9e1dc0d649fd6951fcbeadc170839d3c4bd2416)
(https://www.40konline.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.djartificial.com%2Fphotogallery%2FWarhammerTable%2Fn28113123_38891412_9860.jpg&hash=a0fa045d6889cc4fae7e331f8fe9ec07129b6f7f)
(https://www.40konline.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.djartificial.com%2Fphotogallery%2FWarhammerTable%2Fn28113123_38891413_209.jpg&hash=1428fc0c759b7d892e7bcb5443674b0f0983dcd8)
(https://www.40konline.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.djartificial.com%2Fphotogallery%2FWarhammerTable%2Fn28113123_38891414_570.jpg&hash=071f338c1eca679e508faa2144c1ccfd16b44764)
(https://www.40konline.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.djartificial.com%2Fphotogallery%2FWarhammerTable%2Fn28113123_38891415_904.jpg&hash=ef58aa33f66f4fad42b39d4d9fd88bea4a72b3ef)
(https://www.40konline.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.djartificial.com%2Fphotogallery%2FWarhammerTable%2Fn28113123_38891416_1239.jpg&hash=7c8a9dd14b87f952f25baa5ecb06a4871f48cef7)
(https://www.40konline.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.djartificial.com%2Fphotogallery%2FWarhammerTable%2Fn28113123_38891417_1574.jpg&hash=d3d750ae2dbedefb35786ea89d86f1e3a4eae9f5)
(https://www.40konline.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.djartificial.com%2Fphotogallery%2FWarhammerTable%2Fn28113123_38891418_1912.jpg&hash=bd5c6b46167c7389a4b08b73148e0be784a514a2)
(https://www.40konline.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.djartificial.com%2Fphotogallery%2FWarhammerTable%2Fn28113123_38891419_2257.jpg&hash=ea40e9966f14c57f7900ba17da8b3f2b2636c597)
(https://www.40konline.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.djartificial.com%2Fphotogallery%2FWarhammerTable%2Fn28113123_38891420_2597.jpg&hash=d84e749cacb2d245ab1ea39841fb5bbd4dcce729)
(https://www.40konline.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.djartificial.com%2Fphotogallery%2FWarhammerTable%2Fn28113123_38891421_2949.jpg&hash=4b495e80de9066aafe701b89467398d98df58c01)
(https://www.40konline.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.djartificial.com%2Fphotogallery%2FWarhammerTable%2Fn28113123_38891422_3308.jpg&hash=46aefdc644ea4caec3bff53cfe3daf06504efec4)
(https://www.40konline.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.djartificial.com%2Fphotogallery%2FWarhammerTable%2Fn28113123_38891423_3669.jpg&hash=0ad169d86abc3e2382100165bcf2443e63a9edb6)
(https://www.40konline.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.djartificial.com%2Fphotogallery%2FWarhammerTable%2Fn28113123_38891424_4022.jpg&hash=34d91dafbcccbedc89807a0a671d356a326118f4)
(https://www.40konline.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.djartificial.com%2Fphotogallery%2FWarhammerTable%2Fn28113123_38891425_4374.jpg&hash=3cc62049b57b7f571f25a523cbb50786d1baccf6)
(https://www.40konline.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.djartificial.com%2Fphotogallery%2FWarhammerTable%2Fn28113123_38891426_4733.jpg&hash=c85c6c4401631500973e7685d05047c2a8f46319)
(https://www.40konline.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.djartificial.com%2Fphotogallery%2FWarhammerTable%2Fn28113123_38891427_5087.jpg&hash=964a944627c64a655a74719b93c53bf5b09402cc)
(https://www.40konline.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.djartificial.com%2Fphotogallery%2FWarhammerTable%2Fn28113123_38891428_5441.jpg&hash=e39fa44e8a25926d56ae0f952fd2d7c7f53b54ee)
(https://www.40konline.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.djartificial.com%2Fphotogallery%2FWarhammerTable%2Fn28113123_38891429_5791.jpg&hash=df23dd44416e73ce6030f6d038dc578cc3e84fd4)
(https://www.40konline.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.djartificial.com%2Fphotogallery%2FWarhammerTable%2Fn28113123_38891430_6150.jpg&hash=600c86a5e8fc94722cb6430b7793bf4b18ad87e6)

Anyways. Hope this helps put a visual to what i have been saying.

UPDATE!
2 cans of black spray paint. was JUST enough to cover everything. BUT.. i would say 3 cans is needed for a thicker more even coat. I am going to go buy more can as well as the paint for the board tomorrow.
But the table looks cool all black now. Since it basically hides all the progress steps with putty and foam... so it is all uniform and nice :D. The pva glue seems to be holding the sand to the table VERY well.  It all feels really solid. OH ya. when my friend and I were carrying it outside and trying to get all the excess sand off before priming. We kinda had some bad grip and thought none the less that we should shake it like upside down. But the way we were holding it was awkard (not touching the surface and only the wood frame). And it is pretty heavy at this wierd angle. So to cut the story short we dropped it!!!!!! topside down!! on my front lawn!!. It fell a good way too :S. AND!! it was like basically perfect when it picked it back up. Only an area the size of a toothpick of sand came off. which was re sanded quickly. That was a BIG scare though. But now i have more faith in it's durability.

Anyways. enjoy the pics. And remember there is still a lot to be done, to make it look like the nice forest landscape it will turn out to be.
Title: Re: Making a Game table!
Post by: Gerrie on October 12, 2007, 06:36:50 AM
Chrono, I am really amazed with what I see. This is a fantastic project, good luck finishing it :)
Title: Re: Making a Game table!
Post by: Schrodinger on October 12, 2007, 07:58:51 AM
Excellent progress, it's comming together nicely.

I am very pleased to hear about the durability of the surface as it saved you from that fall.

Also, when it comes time to playing, that strength will serve you well when your friends start dropping their metal mini's with the pointy bits down.  I can't tell you how many sword-stabs my first surface has sustained (I went the easy way out and used a textured spray-paint.  Far less durable than pva+sand).

P.S. GW places a small amount of buttered bread in each and every model, ensuring that it will never land with the base pointed down.  :P
Title: Re: Making a Game table!
Post by: Chrono on October 12, 2007, 10:16:29 AM
has anyone ever applied static grass to a LARGE area like a table before? If so how much did u need? Since i am having doubts on if i got enough. Like there will be dirt patches and all.. but still most of the table will be grass covered. Part of the reason in me thinking i don't have enough was from sanding it, since i had such a big bag of sand i didnt' care about dumping so much on. And although like a huge amount of it came off when i tipped the table since it was all excess, it still feels like i used a lot of sand. Now I don't have 30 kilograms of static grass but if used efficiently i really hope it will cover 70% of the surface.

Also. does anyone know where i can find a half-mask respirator. (not a simple dust mask. but something that will protect me from the fumes of resin). or is it not really that dangerous? The lables make it seem pretty damn harmful to your budy if inhaled, touched, injested etc...
(oh and i mean a store.. not a website).
Title: Re: Making a Game table!
Post by: MrJuice on October 12, 2007, 11:26:52 AM
I personally dont like the look of large areas or whole tables done in static grass, I think its much better when a table is flocked and static grass is used as patches and small areas. But thats just my preference.

If you want to use static grass, two 55 cu in containers should do the job as long as your careful of not wasting or losing too much while you apply it. Go for 3 to be on the safe side, then youll have lots extra to base your minis to match.

As long as your in an area that has some decent ventilation, you should be fine. What kind of resin are you using. Most resins ive used are no worse, fumewise, than using spray cans. If you do want to get something tho, try an army surplus store and you can get them for cheap, or you can go to an auto supply store like NAPA.
Title: Re: Making a Game table!
Post by: Chrono on October 12, 2007, 11:45:58 AM
It is going to be patchy but still with a good amount of covereage. I don't like full grass table either.
And I order 3 bags of the stuff. Not 100% sure on the size because ebay pic is bad.
http://cgi.ebay.ca/Static-Grass-Medium-Green-TC3008_W0QQitemZ160039143126QQihZ006QQcategoryZ2588QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem

3 of these. And i suppose I will start out doing it with much more dirt showing. Then if i run out it will jsut be more patchy
and if i don't, i can ad more till i want to stop.

Hmm i will look into the army surplus store. But after reading mroe up on it, it seems to be not to hazardous. I am going to be doing it outside anyways so it will be well ventillated at least. do u think there will be a problem with hte curing because it will be in my garage over night. I live in toronto, and it gets a bit cold at night in the fall.
Title: Re: Making a Game table!
Post by: MrJuice on October 12, 2007, 12:03:45 PM
Im near London not too far from you, you wont have to worry about it curing. Those bags you purchased will be nowhere near enough, looks about 5 cu in, a bag smaller than a hand. Go to a model shop that deals with trains, and get the big shakers of woodland scenic stuff 55 cu in, youll need two. The downfall to woodland scenic and the stuff you bought is that the fibres are a uniform colour, not a mixture like GW has. If you like the look of the GW stuff find someone who sells Noch supplies, their static grass is just like GW.
Title: Re: Making a Game table!
Post by: Chrono on October 13, 2007, 01:47:42 AM
Hmm. I have trouble finding even the woodland scenic stuff though. The model train stores here seems to have a very poor selection.
Has anyone ever tried mixing two colours of woodland scenics stuff? if so. did it mix nicely and look good on the table?
Because i could always buy 2 and mix the colour than just through in whatever i got to get some even greater range of colour variation in the fibres
Title: Re: Making a Game table!
Post by: MrJuice on October 13, 2007, 03:31:06 AM
I have all 6 colours of woodland scenics stuff, you cant get a GW static grass look by using a mixture. The woodland scenics stuff are all kinda 'muted' in colour, mixing them together can give you a very nice realistic look, but its overall kinda 'muted' for lack of a better term. Kinda like how vallejo model colours are to the game colours.

If i remember correctly, I use a mix of about 3 medium green : 1 burnt grass : 1 honey of the woodland scenics stuff. I will see if I can dig up some pics with any decent closeup shots. I actually prefer the more realistic colours of the woodland scenics but thats just me.
Title: Re: Making a Game table!
Post by: Z4k on October 13, 2007, 04:33:28 AM
What werent you happy about with the woodland scenic water ??? Was this the bead-ish things?

VERY nice looking board so far, cant wait for more pics!
Title: Re: Making a Game table!
Post by: Chrono on October 13, 2007, 12:05:31 PM
@ Mr. Juice: Hmm ya. I can picture waht u mean, since the woodland scenics colours are not as neon/bright as GW. But i would still love to see a pic of yours all mixed up.

@ Z4K
I used realistic water by woodland scenics. So the non bead stuff. But i found it:
a) didn't dry with a hard finish .. (kinda spongy and a bit tacky)
   eg. in one of my old golden deamon battle scenes i had a river with that stuff, and now 2 years later a skink who had broken off and had been laying on the river has slowly sunk in :P. He is stuck :P
b) BUBBLES!!!! While i geuss bubbles might be cool in some applications I don't like massive bubbles appearing on the surface of my river.
Title: Re: Making a Game table!
Post by: MrJuice on October 13, 2007, 01:21:54 PM
Heres what I could find in my photobucket acct

(https://www.40konline.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi42.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fe346%2FMrJoose%2Fth_orcKEG3.jpg&hash=f36d143e8a84f46a13813815cdd293b3f9ff0ff6) (http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e346/MrJoose/orcKEG3.jpg)
(https://www.40konline.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi42.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fe346%2FMrJoose%2Fth_orcKEG2.jpg&hash=7da6f20d3a10e79584a543704592837acf527b67) (http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e346/MrJoose/orcKEG2.jpg)

and another one here
(https://www.40konline.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi42.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fe346%2FMrJoose%2Fth_plateauA2.jpg&hash=244c6ff924387a8204a74c25d6040c62cb5d9fe3) (http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e346/MrJoose/plateauA2.jpg)

Those are using the same mix ratio I mentioned earlier, from a distance its harder to see the different colours in the fibres. Looks better IRL. Gives you an idea of what woodland scenics looks like mixed anyway.
Title: Re: Making a Game table!
Post by: Chrono on October 13, 2007, 01:24:14 PM
WOW! that is some really REALLY nice stuff u have there. I like the grass too!!
How much does a container of woodland scenics stuff go for in canada anyways?
Title: Re: Making a Game table!
Post by: MrJuice on October 13, 2007, 02:11:11 PM
A big canister shaker is around $12-14 CAN depending on the store.
Title: Re: Making a Game table!
Post by: Chrono on October 13, 2007, 04:17:37 PM
That's not to bad.

Update!
Got 1 more can of spray paint as well as some 8 oz bottles of acrylic paints (browns etc.) for painting the board.
And i sprayed the rest of the board black (mainly the edges which i didn't have enough to do before).
Just waiting for it to dry now.

You think i should use a sponge brush or just a big old brush to dry brush the board?
Title: Re: Making a Game table!
Post by: Chrono on October 15, 2007, 12:13:49 AM
Update!
I painted basically the entire board.
Just have to do the base of 1 of the rivers. Thinking of what colours i should blend on the river floor. The middle will be black, but i am thinking greens. Any other suggestions for what to paint the rivers floor with (this is the one with no rocks or anything.. just a flat river).

http://www.40konline.com/mos/index.php?option=com_gallery2&Itemid=837&g2_itemId=31960

a quick pick a i took with like no lighting and just before the sun went down. The brown looks lighter in real life. Note the river in the bottom right. That is what i have to paint next.
Title: Re: Making a Game table!
Post by: Kindred on October 15, 2007, 03:17:08 PM
woodland scenics realistic water...

1- you get bubbles if you pour it too deep at once.
2- it does harden, eventually... it took me about 6 months to get a final hardened feel.

I like it...   but these days, I mostly use a two-part epoxy/resin...
Title: Re: Making a Game table!
Post by: Gerrie on October 16, 2007, 01:56:59 PM
the painting looks very good on that table
Title: Re: Making a Game table!
Post by: Chrono on October 16, 2007, 03:35:27 PM
thanks.
It looks a lot better in real life. But I am sure i will get a better pic of it next time i work outside.
Man I am frustrated with ebay right now. My trees still haven't come. And it is day 16 of the 7-14 day estimate. I doubt he screwed me since he is a power seller with 99.9% good respons and thousands of sales. And the flock isn't here yet either. But I wasn't really expecting it to be here this soon. But I just want to come home to find that one of the two got shipped. It would make me so happy :P

So until the flock comes i have little to do. Instead i went out to buy some nice new translucent aqua and yellow chessex d6s :P. They look so nice :D
Title: Re: Making a Game table!
Post by: Chrono on October 25, 2007, 12:42:36 AM
Okay. My trees FINALLY came after like 20 business days. They were smaller than i though when i pulled them out of the box. but after looking more at them and putting them beside a model i am pretty happy with them. The colour is very vibrant but i like that. gives them some pop... after all 40k isn't the most realistic game to begin with.
Um the trunks are made of wire and are about 3-4 mm in diamater. Is that possibel to pin still?
here are some pics
there are two types of trees. one slim, one normal. and the other one on the side was just a referance with some olds ones i had.

http://www.40konline.com/mos/index.php?option=com_gallery2&Itemid=99999999&g2_itemId=32187
http://www.40konline.com/mos/index.php?option=com_gallery2&Itemid=99999999&g2_itemId=32190
http://www.40konline.com/mos/index.php?option=com_gallery2&Itemid=99999999&g2_itemId=32193
http://www.40konline.com/mos/index.php?option=com_gallery2&Itemid=99999999&g2_itemId=32196
http://www.40konline.com/mos/index.php?option=com_gallery2&Itemid=99999999&g2_itemId=32199
Title: Re: Making a Game table!
Post by: Gerrie on October 25, 2007, 02:03:28 AM
I think the only option you have to get those trees on the table is to drill a hole as wide as the trunk, and stick it in the ground...
Title: Re: Making a Game table!
Post by: Chrono on October 26, 2007, 06:09:54 PM
Ya that might be the case. I am getting my friends pin vice tonight to try and see if drilling is possible. But after looking at trees i might have another method. Take some thin wire and wrap in around the tree since that is what the trunk is anyways just like twisted wire. So basically take like 3 strands and rap it around the tree a bit then at the bottom leave some excess wire to jam in the board. Then you would have to paint over the trunks and wire to hide it.
I will try every method. But ya i think in the end i probably will just have to drill a hole and stick it in the ground.

UPDATE:
Well I purchased two big shakers of woodland scenics static grass. The two colours i got were medium and dark green. Though i really don't even like the colours that much, i figured that they would be a good base for what i am planning. First off. I mixed the two and made a test patch area. It looks actually pretty good. But again for me, i am looking for a different colour so i am going to airbrush it. Like by all means it looks realistic, but I like the brighter and more saturated colours for 40k. So anyways, i made a test patch about 3" x 3" this afternoon. THen broke out my airbrush and sprayed it a very vibrant medium green, then highlighted with a pure yellow. Though it isn't dry yet. I am very happy with the results!! Essentially airbrushing the grass allows u to make it whatever colour you want. But i suppose i should wait till it is all dry to see what happened. So now i think i will start to flock the table.
Title: Re: Making a Game table!
Post by: CheeEEEse on October 27, 2007, 02:21:17 AM
I use spackle (http://ryan.skow.org/church/construction/spackle.jpg) to attach these types of trees to my scenery. 

What I'll do is create a small, realistic looking mound of spackle, stick the tree into the center of it then apply an adhesive to where the tree enters the spackle.  For the adhesive, I use anything from wood glue to epoxy, depending on the size/weight of the tree.  Then I find some way to hold the tree up, either by carefully propping it up against something or even attaching strings to it to suspend it upright until the adhesive dries. 

With this method you obviously have to paint/flock over the top of the spackle with the tree attached, but so far it's worked wonders for me.
Title: Re: Making a Game table!
Post by: custard on October 27, 2007, 05:11:38 AM
I'm about 1/5 through making a few wood terrain pieces atm. I've got different trees to you, and am making mine removable, but thought I'd through my 2 pence into the pot anyway.  :)

I drilled into the trunk of the tree from below, and superglued a piece of wire into the offending hole. Then drilled a hole into the base for a piece of brass tubing with the same inside diameter as the wire, cover brass tube with spackle (obviously leaving the hole uncovered) then the trees can be placed into the tube as and where you want them.
Title: Re: Making a Game table!
Post by: Chrono on October 27, 2007, 11:43:22 AM
Okay i just tried drilling the holes in the tree trunk with a pin vice. It is VERY difficult due to the fact that it is like a wire trunk which like forced to make the pin vice drill in wrong directions. Although i was successfull in making a 1 cm deep hole in the first one. It failed on the next 2 i tired since they trunk was thinner than that first one and i could start a hole on like a rounded bottom with out the drill bit slipping to the side and hitting my thumb :P. Although it worked for one tree i am having doubts if i can get it to work with a drill.

Cheese do u by any chance have pics of your trees? I would like to see how it looks with the spackle mound at the base.
Title: Re: Making a Game table!
Post by: hearingyourlies on October 27, 2007, 02:47:48 PM
This is one HELL of an undertaking and it's coming out awesome! Good job.
Title: Re: Making a Game table!
Post by: Chrono on October 28, 2007, 11:42:26 PM
UPDATE!

Well I came up with the solution and applied it to the trees.  I took some thin wire i got from a RONA lansing. ( i don't have it on hand. but it is cheap and comes in a massive amount for my purposes anyways. aka enough to do like 2000 trees or something.) What i did was cut about 10" long segments, then fold it in half to make a "double wire". Then i would use pliers to hold one end by the top of the trunk (well right below the branches .. not the top of hte tree) and proceed to wrap the wire around the trunk till i got to the base. It creates a kinda spiral look around the trunk which is cool and perfectly believable in the exagerated world of 40k. Then with the excess wire at the bottom i would bend the two ends down. This gives u two like 3/4" wires to stick into the table. Two being usefull since it is a lot more stable than just one. And the length can be adjusted as u see fit. U can make it as long as you want hanging off the end .. or for the same matter as short as you want. Or u can wrap it around the tree more or less. So it is very customizable. All u need is the wire and some needle-nose pliers. Then after i finished doing it for the 60 trees i have, i stuck them all in spare foam and used a metal glue to fix the tree trunks to the wire. While this step isn't neccessary, because the wire alone will grip the tree trunk very well since it is tightly wrapped around it, and very stiff..  not to mention the slight varrying diameter of the tree trunk to allow the wire not to slip. I just wanted to be safe and make it as solid as possible. And it takes like 1/20th of a small tube of metal glue.. so it doesn't cost anything. So now I have all my trees ready to be painted (the wire is metal). I plan on just painting the entire lower trunk dark brown and then doing some drybrushing with lighter browns. More on that when i do it.

And I Flocked the entire table :D. Had to do it in 2 stages. First stage was where i was able to finish just over half of the table before running out of flock (2 full containers of woodland scenics stuff). There was tonnes of excess obviously, so i had to wait till the next day (today) when it was all dry. Then i brushed off the excess flock and got back like 75% of it :P . Then finished off the second half. And tomorrow or w/e i will brush off all the excess flock again.. leaving me with a LOT of left over static grass. (it is surprising how much can be recycled). Then i might do some touch ups here and there trying to blend the flock around the dirt patches to make the transition not as harsh. And after that is all done, i can airbrush the static grass, since i am very pleased with my test airbrush patch.
Title: Re: Making a Game table!
Post by: Gerrie on October 29, 2007, 03:06:15 AM
so what did you use to glue on the flock?
Title: Re: Making a Game table!
Post by: Chrono on October 29, 2007, 09:17:25 AM
Watered down PVA glue. Seems to hold very well. I have been pretty rough with some areas to test it out, and it is nice and solid.
Title: Re: Making a Game table!
Post by: Chrono on November 5, 2007, 07:54:02 PM
okay well it has been long since i have posted.
Um I have been working on the table still here and there.

Update:
- Well the flocking was completed and i found that it looked good if u very lightly brushed glue away from the edges of the big glue blobs in order to blend the grass to the dirt. This is because the sharp line created by just grassing a big blob of glue looks a bit unnatural. It is still a very subtle difference but i think it looks better.

- Man i really found out how hard it is to get excess grass off the table. I swept it a million times and vacuumed it 3 times!! And while it would seem that all the excess had come off. All it takes is one brush sweep off the edge and u can see the little fibres flowing off the edge. None hte less on the table it looks the same.. it is like there is inifinite grass or something.

- The solution to this grass which is for all purposes not going to move but techinically will if u quickly sweep a brush over it, was the paint. So ya, i airbrushed the entire table. Man this was a lot of work. But surprisingly didn't take as much paint as i thought it would. I used less than 2 oz of green airbrush paint and about 1 oz of yellow. I first airbrushed all the grass green, trying to control the spray and block off non grass areas with a piece of paper as i went around the board. Then i went over the grass on the table with a yellow, making the grass more ... yellow ... :P. I tried to make the edges of teh large grass patches more yellow than the centres. as if the grass was dieing as it went towards dirt. However this was done very slightly.  Um. What i learned is that is that it is a big process, and messy, and with the green paint my airbrush kept getting clogged so i was getting frustrated since i would have to dissassemble it and clean it all out. But just water down the paints more so u can avoid this. And no matter how hard u try u will get paint on areas u don't want to. I really didnt' want to tape off the hole board since a) i don't want harsh lines, and b) it would take SOOOOO long. So after i was done i retouched all the rocks and dirt where green had over sprayed.

- I also got around to painting the base of the shallow river. I just blended browns from the edge to black in the centre (for the illusion of depth). This was so easy with an airbrush, though still could be done with a brush just with much more effort.

- once all the paint dried the grass would no longer come off when u brushed at it. ANd it is still fuzzy dispite what people might think abuot painting static grass. (well i mean u need to use an airbrush and not a brush.. but it still is static grass and not just a mess of fibres and paint).

- The reason the grass was painted again was because it needed to match the trees i had and the woodland scenics stuff which is amazing for quantity isn't the nicest stuff, and has a very dull colour.

- I also put all the trees on the table! :D This step was fun since it made such a big difference in the look of the table. I simply took a hammer and a thin nail and would hammer two small holes into the table (a hammer and nail was needed to break through the very tough and strong sand/glue mixture on top) into which i would just press the two wire ends sticking off the bottom of each tree.

- Oh ya :P the tree trunks were all painted brown such that the wire was silver anymore.
- The trees seem to hold very well right now but i may consider glueing them. But I am considering leaving them as is sicne they don't move at all, and i can still techinically move them around, since the holes i push them into are SOOO small u can't even see them incase i move a tree. Like had a LOT of trouble finding hte holes i hammered to put the wire into. Especially since they are in static grass which easily masks the pin holes.

- planning went into the tree placement for cover and game play. ANd i had 12 trees left over which i used on the board for more decorative purposes making sure the table seemed more evenly covered.

NEXT STEP
- water time :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
Title: Re: Making a Game table!
Post by: Col.Chaos on November 7, 2007, 09:43:32 PM
    Looks great can't wait to see it finished.  You have inspired me to start building my own table thinking some kind of chaos themed terrain!
Title: Re: Making a Game table!
Post by: Chrono on November 8, 2007, 01:53:24 AM
ya it is very close to being done now. Today i put up some barriers at the river ends so that the envirotex i pour in won't leak off the edge. I did this buy attaching styrofoam with packing tape on it (shiney/slippery side facing teh river edge) to the edge of the river. Now sicne the table is being supported by 4 lawn chairs in my garage and is 1 m off the ground at least i can't like have something pushing against it to keep it there. So i ended up taking a thing piece of wood maybe 1/3 of an inch and nailing through the foam to the board. So it is Board - foam - wood. THe reason i didn't just nail straight into the foam was because the wood spreads out the force over the entire foam and doesn't allow the nail to get pushed indefinitely through it like foam would. Hope that explained it well enough. I can try again if it is confusing.

Then i put glue between the tape edge of the foam and teh board / river edges. So seal the tiny gap such that the envirotex won't dissapear over night on me on to the floor.

Oh and i came to a funny realization the other day. My board kinda looks like a really nice park :P. Not the most wargame like outthere. But then again i wasn't really going for the war torn terrain at all in the first place. But i think the main reason it looks like a park is because the grass is such a lush green as are the trees, and the dirt path could just be something people walk or bike down :P. lol. But i still like it, am not going to change it to make it look war torn. I will eventually post pics when i am done. But i am glad that his thread has inspired u to build your own table. It is a lot of work but really cool. And i have a feeling it will be quite a challenge ot get into my house :P IT IS HUGE!!! (but i measured the clearance and it technically should be fine).
Title: Re: Making a Game table!
Post by: Kindred on November 8, 2007, 08:51:40 AM
I always bulid my boards in 2'x4' sections that "join" together (the pink rigid insulation has interleaving edges)
Title: Re: Making a Game table!
Post by: Chrono on November 8, 2007, 07:11:30 PM
ya that is always a good thing so u can mix up the board every game. And i saw that type of foam when i was buying the foam for my table.
Title: Re: Making a Game table!
Post by: Kindred on November 9, 2007, 11:25:08 PM
but, in addition to moving the pieces around, it also makes transport somewhat easier... :) (i.e. I can fit 4 2x4 sections in my car... I can not fit a 4x8 sheet in...)
Title: Re: Making a Game table!
Post by: Col.Chaos on November 15, 2007, 08:38:42 PM
   The foam you are using is it just regular old styrofoam?  PVA glue what is it and what department would I find it in?   Thanks in advance
Title: Re: Making a Game table!
Post by: Chrono on November 15, 2007, 11:21:10 PM
The foam isn't just regular packing styrofoam. it is insulating styrofoam and particularly high density stuff. It comes in 2' x 8' sheets at every big building supply store. For example home depot or rona lancing if u are in canada.
The sheets cost around 13$ or something for 1" thick sheet. It comes in 1/2" and 2" thick as well. For a different cost pretty proportional to the amount of foam.
The reason people use this stuff is since there are no bubbles... It is really smooth, and looks great since when examined close it is so clean. Regular styrofoam is horrible!! in comparison.
And PVA glue u can get anywhere from a craft store in the glue area, or a dollar store probably in the school and craft supply area, or in a home depot in the PAINT area usually.

UPDATE.
Man sealing off rivers at the end is frustrating. I am going over cautious to make sure that NOTHING will leak.
- so i filled one of the rivers with envirotex yesterday. Will take a few days to dry before i can make a final comment on the stuff. Hope it doesn't beslubber up since the weather is so cold.. but i don't have another option really.
- it was simple enough to use from what i did so far. Mix equal parts, and a little paint/ink., pour in, exhale over it to make bubbles dissappear.
- man does it ever stink though.

I am really busy though these days.
but it is SOO close to beind done now. Just need to ensure the second river is sealed, then fill it up too. I am so excited to play on it :D
Title: Re: Making a Game table!
Post by: Chrono on November 21, 2007, 07:25:37 PM
Okay. I AM SOOOOO CLOSE TO BEING DONE.
well for the most part i am done.
But i realized a few days ago that the second river i poured has a tacky surface... and was like??? since the big one has a hard surface that isn't sticky at ALL! like glass it is really cool :P.
Then i went to my garage and realized that there was still a bunch of one of the 2 resin components in one of the bottles :S.Since after measuring the 2 large amounts of resin for hte big river i had equal amounts in each of the bottles left over exactly. SO i figured i would just empty them into 1 cup straight off since they were like the same... but i guess since they flowed out at such a slow speed. like the thinnest stream ever i thought it was basically empty... when in fact it wasn't. So essentially the ratio wasn't perfect and now i have to deal with it again. It is hard.. just tacky. So I am wondering how i can fix this. I don't feel like buying more envirotex to do another thin coat. I heard of something called acrylic gloss medium. Would this go on and dry clear and non tacky on top of my water surface without loosing what i have right now. (THe water still looks good just not good to touch.. so i want to preserved the layer of water in there right now and nwo cover it up with something opaque or anything).
Anyways any ideas would help a lot.

and i took the table into my hosue. So it is DONE except for the tacky water which i need to solve first. Since the river boarders are still on because i haven't decided how to solve the second river problem i am not going to take pics till i quickly finish that. But all i can say is man is it awkward ot move this thing around
it weight like 60 lbs... and is 4' x 6' x 1.5'. It barely fit around corners and down the stairs to my basement. When storing u can have it standing up so it doesn't take much space. But when placed ontop a table it is massive, yet very stable even on a table less then 1/3 the size due ot hte frame of the board. :D
Anyway i can't wait to play on it.. hopefully saturday.. and i will take pics i promise.

so .. any tips on finishing hte surface to make it not tacky on the river i messed up on???
Title: Re: Making a Game table!
Post by: in_jeopardy on November 21, 2007, 07:30:05 PM
If you've got some purity seal, I'd say try that in a small corner of the tacky river and see how it fares.

How long have you left that river dry for? It may be that it just needs some more time.
Title: Re: Making a Game table!
Post by: Chrono on November 21, 2007, 07:48:47 PM
It is definitely an error on my part.
my other river which is big and deep like almost 3/4" all in 1 pour dried in 2 days. And is amazing. This one has been sitting for 4 or 5 days now at least and is like 1/4" deep and has a tacky surface though still looks nice.
It is all my fault... but i just need to fix it now.

oh and here is a dim pic i quickly took since i figured u guys might want to see. I will take some actual pics with good lighting when everything is in order and the river baracades are removed etc. http://www.40konline.com/mos/index.php?option=com_gallery2&Itemid=837&g2_itemId=32475
Title: Re: Making a Game table!
Post by: Chrono on November 25, 2007, 02:51:26 AM
Oh and ya that is a stuka bomber on the table... don't ask... :P
Title: Re: Making a Game table! [FINAL PIC!]
Post by: Windowlicker on November 27, 2007, 02:16:40 PM
ooo
nice :D
very nice job, very neat and shiney
Title: Re: Making a Game table! [FINAL PIC!]
Post by: ckblum on November 27, 2007, 07:05:55 PM
You could try using some high quality varnish. Diamond hard finish would... well make it diamond hard, except Im not sure if it would react somehow to improperly cured resin. Experiment with a dab on the edge or something. It it goes well just brush it over the entire river and it should dry super clear and super hard. I might just use the varnish all on its own for my rivers since it can be built up in a few coats pretty thick and needs no mixing.

Other than that its looking great. I can wait to start mine, which is gonna be more looks I think too because I come from a scale modeling and model R&R background.
Title: Re: Making a Game table! [FINAL PIC!]
Post by: MrJuice on November 27, 2007, 08:19:54 PM
I would have to assume that if the surface is still tacky, you were slightly short in the curing agent department. Cause if it was the other way around it would have cured completely, just a whole lot sooner. Take some of what you have left and go over the surface of the tacky areas, depending on what youve used it might do the trick. If not, you are only left with 'covering up' the uncured resin. Hit it with either a clearcoat spray, varnish has been suggested and would work, or even a layer of future floor wax would do.
Title: Re: Making a Game table! [FINAL PIC!]
Post by: Chrono on November 27, 2007, 10:39:35 PM
I have that diamond hard varnish actually. But wouldn't like a thin coat on to a surface not be diamond hard. Like it is sticky as in .. like REALLY REALLY thick goop. U can poke your nails fully into it with force. But i doubt it is going to run anywhere. So won't a thin coat like just crack or something. Actually maybe not. But what i would be more worried about is it going white. U know when u spray varnish over like clear plastic it gets foggy for some wierd reason right??? Or am i thinking of something else. But I don't want that to happen here. /I need to just like try stuff out. I ahve been busy recently. Soo I will try all these options.. and see what works. I don't mean to shoot down ideas.. since i will actually try them until something works.. just theorizing on what could go wrong :S.

@mr juice:

although it is hard to tell the colour from the low quality pic i put up :
http://www.40konline.com/mos/index.php?option=com_gallery2&Itemid=837&g2_itemId=32475
I ended up painting teh grass to make it vibrant. But i must admit that before painting it i had dark and medium green from woodland scenics.. that it looks really nice and realistic. So i now understand that it looks good even with out the bright colours that GW offers. If i had more big containers and colours i would even be happier with the mix. But 2 was more than enough for the table. used about 5/6 of the 2 containers.
Title: Re: Making a Game table! [FINAL PIC!]
Post by: Schrodinger on November 28, 2007, 08:19:08 AM
I worked with a clear resin before (not the same brand as you are using, but still...) and had a piece of it cure badly.  As it turns out, the reaction was quite exothermic and melted through the thin plastic material I was using as a container.  As a result, some of the chemical spilled out causing an improper cure.

The resin ended up having a tacky finish as you describe, (I was able to stick a toothpick into the piece, it was so soft) so I abandoned the piece and left it forgotten in the basement.  I discovered it after about a month to find that the cure had finally completed, no tack surfaces or soft material remained.

So, your dilemma could be solved by time.   Lots of time.
Title: Re: Making a Game table! [FINAL PIC!]
Post by: Gerrie on December 5, 2007, 02:17:21 AM
good to see you were able to finish this thing, very well done!
Title: Re: Making a Game table! [FINAL PIC!]
Post by: Chrono on December 10, 2007, 03:12:57 PM
Alright. I ended up just spraying the river with varnish. It worked by removing the tackyness. I sprayed maybe 3 coats to be safe. However a lot of the gloss was lost due to this, and it is slightly less transparent... but overall i am happy i don't have to worry about it anymore. I removed the side walls, puttied up the sides where there was damage etc from the barriers and painted it black again. Unfortunaltly the lighting in my basement right now is pretty poor.. and we all know how ugly flash makes things look so here are some final pics!

http://www.40konline.com/mos/index.php?option=com_gallery2&Itemid=837&g2_itemId=34303
http://www.40konline.com/mos/index.php?option=com_gallery2&Itemid=837&g2_itemId=34300
http://www.40konline.com/mos/index.php?option=com_gallery2&Itemid=837&g2_itemId=34279
http://www.40konline.com/mos/index.php?option=com_gallery2&Itemid=837&g2_itemId=34282
http://www.40konline.com/mos/index.php?option=com_gallery2&Itemid=837&g2_itemId=34285
http://www.40konline.com/mos/index.php?option=com_gallery2&Itemid=837&g2_itemId=34288
http://www.40konline.com/mos/index.php?option=com_gallery2&Itemid=837&g2_itemId=34291
http://www.40konline.com/mos/index.php?option=com_gallery2&Itemid=837&g2_itemId=34294
http://www.40konline.com/mos/index.php?option=com_gallery2&Itemid=837&g2_itemId=34297

-edit- corrected the links.
Title: Re: Making a Game table! [FINAL PIC!]
Post by: Kindred on December 10, 2007, 03:34:54 PM
I corrected th elinks in the above message. There is no component with itemID=999999 and the gallery is Itemid=837

Please use correct links when posting... especially from the internal gallery
Title: Re: Making a Game table! [FINAL PIC!]
Post by: ckblum on December 11, 2007, 06:23:02 PM
It looks good and all, for a park. I have to be honest but I liked it better in the pic showing just after you applied the sand. It doesnt really look like a battlefield at all, but it still looks good. Whatever makes you happy.
Title: Re: Making a Game table! [FINAL PIC!]
Post by: Chrono on December 11, 2007, 06:29:59 PM
hehe ya i know what u mean. It was made to be all nice and clean. But i agree it doesn't look like a battle field for 40k especially. Hey u never know when the eldar might be attacked while playing in their nice city park. If i ever decided to make it look damaged though i would think it would be very easy. Just go over the board with a big ass airbrush using dark browns greys etc...
Title: Re: Making a Game table! [FINAL PIC!]
Post by: XCrusaderguy01 on December 11, 2007, 06:44:26 PM
It looks good and all, for a park. I have to be honest but I liked it better in the pic showing just after you applied the sand. It doesnt really look like a battlefield at all, but it still looks good. Whatever makes you happy.

In video games, I love battlefields that start out as beautiful pristine places! Games like Company of Heroes and World In Conflict especially are great examples of this. However, they have the ability to pour pure ruin into places like these every time an artillery shell lands/bomb goes off/etc with dynamic terrain/object alteration. 40k doesn't have this ability unless you make modular pieces with it in mind, like craters, burned out trees, destroyed versions of buildings, etc to put down throughout the course of the game. This would be difficult as you'd be nearly doubling your work and tedious to add another task to gameplay.

It would be very interesting to incorporate "destructible terrain" rules into 40k. Whenever blasts/barrages go off, put appropriately sized craters counting as 5+ cover. Buildings/bunkers could have different protective qualities depending on if they are standing or ruined, and woods could be burned to ashes via incendiary weapons. Of course, the existing rules set doesn't balance for this very well, so it would need some adjustment and possibly additions to certain army lists to work.

At any rate, your table would be the perfect one to do something like this to. One of the disadvantages of your board is that it is not modular and will be the same every time you play on it. Destructible terrain rules would change the battlefield every turn, giving troops new cover to hide in, forcing them to flee from what used to be a position of saftey, opening up new routes for vehicular maneuvering or closing them off entirely.

It would be difficult to pull off though. However, I've played on both static boards (built to stay as they are like yours) and on boards with movable terrain. I've found that the biggest difference tends not to be the variety involved, but the surfaces in general. Modular boards tend to be much easier to arrange models on, while static boards may have beautiful set pieces which are very difficult to use because models simply won't stand up on them, or will be forced into odd/detrimental formations. You seem to have done a good job making large playable areas on your board, so I doubt it will be much an issue.

Great job, enjoy!  :)
Title: Re: Making a Game table! [FINAL PIC!]
Post by: Chrono on December 11, 2007, 06:53:19 PM
Ya i tried to keep enough large flat areas to make placing models easier but i admit it won't be the same as playing on my modular terrain piece that i just put on a battle mat. I found that on my table one can incorporate modular smaller terrain pieces such as small ruins no bigger than like 6"x6" in various places of teh baord to add to some variety in the table. Also all the trees can be removed and easily put back if u are really in the mood for something different. But despite all this it will never be the same as a purely modular board and i knew that going into the project.

I would be pretty neat though to have destroyable terrain rules but would be difficult to employ into the current rules, unless it was some mission specific stuff. "attacker - burn the forests : Defender - stop them!!"

i think my influence on this table was more the nice warhammer boards from a long time ago where everything was so clean. in the 40k universe though this type of setting is pretty unrealistic. but it doesn't stop me from enjoying it.
Title: Re: Making a Game table!
Post by: phonecall_of_Cthulu on January 15, 2008, 04:12:14 PM
I have all 6 colours of woodland scenics stuff, you cant get a GW static grass look by using a mixture. The woodland scenics stuff are all kinda 'muted' in colour, mixing them together can give you a very nice realistic look, but its overall kinda 'muted' for lack of a better term. Kinda like how vallejo model colours are to the game colours.

If i remember correctly, I use a mix of about 3 medium green : 1 burnt grass : 1 honey of the woodland scenics stuff. I will see if I can dig up some pics with any decent closeup shots. I actually prefer the more realistic colours of the woodland scenics but thats just me.

On grass, I found this system works best for me:

1.  Choose the predominant color you want to use.  Buy a bunch of this, and use it as your flock.
2.  Buy several shades of spraypaint.
3.  Spray away until you have the desired texture and effect.

I found this was a greay way to throw in patches of "dirt" or paths through the grass too. :)
Title: Re: Making a Game table! [FINAL PIC!]
Post by: Kindred on January 15, 2008, 06:24:54 PM
ick.
Spray paint on static grass is ugly.

Get the colours you want with the grass itself.  It looks better in the end.
Title: Re: Making a Game table! [FINAL PIC!]
Post by: The refugee on January 20, 2008, 05:57:33 PM
Looks amazing. Good work, I would be honored if I ever got to play on your board.