Topic: Drop Pods: More useful or border-line broken?

[moc065]

I think that when you say that Termies can use Drop Pods, you really should add the statement "in the newest Space Marine Codex" as there are still plenty of guys using the older DA and BT Codexes... and in the DA Codex (still legal) I do believe that Termies can use Drop Pods (looks a Hymirl for slap or backup - whichever is appropriate) ... Now the issue might be that the guy is mix/matching codexes to rape the best from each (as he sees it) which of course is totally illegal..

Anyway, just to point out not all Drop Pod armies are straight out of the newest Codex.

moc

[Changeyname]

ust had a flick through the DA, BT and BA books and in none of them can termies take anything other than LR variants as transports or the usual teleport

sorry but if anyone has termies drop podding they're cheating (or house ruling without telling you.....)

[Guildmage Aech]

just had a flick through the DA, BT and BA books and in none of them can termies take anything other than LR variants as transports or the usual teleport

Nope, all wrong.

Codex Black Templars, page 22, Terminators are able to take them.
Codex Blood Angels, page 8, in the Terminators entry they are allowed drop pods but they aren't allowed Land Raiders.
In Dark Angels they can't have pods, but they can't have land raiders either.

Don't flick, read! 

I think that when you say that Termies can use Drop Pods, you really should add the statement "in the newest Space Marine Codex" as there are still plenty of guys using the older DA and BT Codexes...

Yes, an important distinction although since this thread is pretty specificly about the new vanillia marines codex (and the improved rules for pods) its not unreasonable to assume that an unspecified mention of drop pods is from that codex.

Edit for Clarity on blood angels.

[Changeyname]

sorry i totally forgot about the drop pod assault rules, my bad 

i was looking only at the unit entry and dedicated transports

[moc065]

Thanks for that clear up there Hymirl.. I knew I read it somewhere... to many Codexes for one F---ing Race.... (and mine were in the car at the time)....

PS... I did know the title of the thread; but when people strat chatting little trinkets are often overlooked... as some gamers try to mix codexes (by mistake) or rule editions (by mistake - of course)...

CaHg

[Mr Draken]

I run a 3000 point space wolf army, and its a drop pod army. In the old rules id say 4/6 games only half my pods came in if that.

Now with the rules yes drop pods became alot more effective, but for armys like mine it made it better to field, it used to be a choice of going with my space wolves drop pod army, or lugging them all in rhinos and land raiders, wich cut down my points on actual space wolves.

Im sorry but if your having trouble dealing with drop pods i can see 1 of 3 things wrong:

1. Your vsing an enemy that has countered your army list.
2. Your vsing an enemy thats plan is to divide and destroy.
3. Your tactics arnt working against this new style of play(new for you anyway, not for some of us die hard pod people) and you steadfastly refuse to change or look at other tactics to beat them.

I have played 5 games with the new pod rules for my wolves, and its been 2 wins, 2 losses and a draw. the game becomes deadlier for sure, but my army is not unbeatable, first game i played i got wiped, guy saw my pods, didnt freak and used his head to beat me.  Second game i won by sheer luck and guts, third I won by tactics. fourth was the draw all objectives contested(and not from my pods) and fifth i lost because my pods scattered off table(4/10 anyway).

I know im not using vanilla marines, but i still see how it can go.

[nedius]

My mish-mash tyranids tore apart a drop pod army on Tuesday. My 'army' (I've no better word for the random collection of bits and bobs from here, there and everywhere that mades up my tyranid collection) was in no way designed to counter drop pods - it's not designed in anyway at all... It's entirely made up of stealers and gaunts, with a broodlord as the only HQ.

He tried to use the pods to capture objectives early and then hold them against all comers - using sternguard, an ironclad and a tactical squad to hold/contest the mid-table objectives, whilst two further tac squads, a sniper scout squad and vindicator provided long range fire support. Over the whole battle, the vindicator was FAR more of a nuisance than the pods and their contents - they were all wiped out entirely with relative ease. Their only success was to wipe out the hormagaunts entirely on turn 1.

I sort of know the obvious answer - that drop pods versus tyranids is a mistake as tyranids WANT you up close ASAP. That highlights the fact that drop pods are only useful against certain army types.

Actaully, has anyone tried drop pod vrs drop pod? How did that turn out?

[Straker]

Well, this thread started because of drop pod v drop pod. But I dunno, As a nid player DP armies give me trouble. Every squad inside has a flamer against guys I play against, and maybe the players have just gotten lucky but they do some pretty serious damage to a lot of squads when they come in.

Anyone faced off against the stern/flamer+gate Libby/Lysander combo? That messes amphetamine parrot up entirely. It goes basically wherever it wants every turn (locator beacons) and hoses crap with its flamers and rr bolter hits. Getting into cc with it I was tarpitted for a few turns before eventually winning, and it took a LOT to win. This swuad, backed up appropriately, is tough as amphetamine parrot.

So yea people saying nids aren't being hurt by DPs I disagree. We are so vulnerable to flamers it's not even funny, unless you're playing nidzilla which I don't. Nids really aren't that great in cc vs SM except for our TMCs and Genestealers. Gaunts are pretty darn terrible having only 1 base attack, or hormies 2. But my hormies are always wiped pretty damn clean by one DP...

[moc065]

I was under the impression that if the guy wants to bounce each turn that only the single figure could bounce... the rest could only drop in once... did I read this wrong?

Anyway, Flamers will always be an issue (unless your seriously limited in figures - like me)... how to plan for Flamers... bring a case to put your guys back into (flamers can hurt - a lot).

Oh and Lysander thing is sort of sick OK; but starting in reserves still messes them up.. then tool one squad at a time as you come in from reserves. I just made that sound too easy; but its not... you will still have to work at it to win.

CaHG

[Straker]

Yea, but the Lysander trick will be in the half not podding on the first turn when kept all in reserve, meaning there is a decent chance he doesn't come in until turn 3 which means he can devastate, especially if he is going second.

[Grand Master Rex Nihilo]

Flamers hurt but they have to get in close to use them! Which plays into your game at that point!

Rob

[Dinendal]

Eldar Question:

I heard in lots of threads that the ultimate Eldar counter for a space marine drop pod list is a mech list. I don't get it. How is it that can makes you feel this? I played against a guy using 3 drop pod (1.5k). He immobilised a fire prism first turn with a dreadnought and he had destroyed a waveserpent if I didn't tell him he couldn't rapid fire out of a pod with his plasma amphetamine parrot. (was I right?)

Basically, the only way to deal with this is to kill all their troop and pray for some of our troops to stay alive and contest... which is dull.

[Grand Master Rex Nihilo]

Eldar Question:he had destroyed a waveserpent if I didn't tell him he couldn't rapid fire out of a pod with his plasma amphetamine parrot. (was I right?)

Why wouldn't he be able to rapid fire?  According to the Deep Strike rules he can fire but not move or assault.  His unit that Drop Pods in counts as moving but this doesn't stop him from rapid firing. What was your basis for denying the Rapid Fire?

Rob

[Dinendal]

Eldar Question:he had destroyed a waveserpent if I didn't tell him he couldn't rapid fire out of a pod with his plasma amphetamine parrot. (was I right?)

Why wouldn't he be able to rapid fire?  According to the Deep Strike rules he can fire but not move or assault.  His unit that Drop Pods in counts as moving but this doesn't stop him from rapid firing. What was your basis for denying the Rapid Fire?

Rob

Didn't the full 24 inches shot needed him to not move ? (for rapid firing weapon)

And can he fire a heavy weapon out of the pod ?

[Re-roll?!]

Eldar Question:he had destroyed a waveserpent if I didn't tell him he couldn't rapid fire out of a pod with his plasma amphetamine parrot. (was I right?)

Why wouldn't he be able to rapid fire?  According to the Deep Strike rules he can fire but not move or assault.  His unit that Drop Pods in counts as moving but this doesn't stop him from rapid firing. What was your basis for denying the Rapid Fire?

Rob

Didn't the full 24 inches shot needed him to not move ? (for rapid firing weapon)

And can he fire a heavy weapon out of the pod ?

Oh well you were right there,  the way you said it was not very clear and I was confused when I first read it too.

The whole concept behind the Eldar Mech list beating pods is keeping everything in reserve, thus half the pods come in on turn one pop the guys out with nothing to close range massacre. The eldar then swoop in based on where the pods land and shoot the marines up at arms length. Also, drop pod armies tend to be specialized for close range firefights or cc so using the mech eldar speed to spin circles around them and kill isolated units, perhaps even uing the pods themselves to block returning Sm anti tank fire if you feel so inclined. Its a pretty solid in theroy at least.

[Dinendal]

Eldar Question:he had destroyed a waveserpent if I didn't tell him he couldn't rapid fire out of a pod with his plasma amphetamine parrot. (was I right?)

Why wouldn't he be able to rapid fire?  According to the Deep Strike rules he can fire but not move or assault.  His unit that Drop Pods in counts as moving but this doesn't stop him from rapid firing. What was your basis for denying the Rapid Fire?

Rob

Didn't the full 24 inches shot needed him to not move ? (for rapid firing weapon)

And can he fire a heavy weapon out of the pod ?

Oh well you were right there,  the way you said it was not very clear and I was confused when I first read it too.

The whole concept behind the Eldar Mech list beating pods is keeping everything in reserve, thus half the pods come in on turn one pop the guys out with nothing to close range massacre. The eldar then swoop in based on where the pods land and shoot the marines up at arms length. Also, drop pod armies tend to be specialized for close range firefights or cc so using the mech eldar speed to spin circles around them and kill isolated units, perhaps even uing the pods themselves to block returning Sm anti tank fire if you feel so inclined. Its a pretty solid in theroy at least.

He tried to trick me then !

The thing is, I can keep stock in reserve even with a footslogging army. The amount of firepower we can get instead of buying skimmers easily makes up for anything else. With Quins, Banshees or Scorpions as counter assault (and a phoenix lord for back up) anything that can come via deepstrike can be neutralised in CC or via shooting (if they are better than me in CC)

[Grand Master Rex Nihilo]

If the skimmers were more than 12" away than you are right he could not have fire at them!  He was being cheeky or just ignorant of the Rapid Fire rules!? 

Rob

[moc065]

Mech Eldar work better vs Drop Pods than Footslogger Eldar, as they can come into the battle field and shoot all on the same turn.. where as some of the better ranged Eldar need to stand still to shoot (Dark Reapers, Pathfinders, etc)... Now, if your using Wraithlords, Walkers, Vypers, Guardians, DA, etc.. that are assault shooters, then either type of Eldar can defeat Drop Pods with the "reserve" style play, and 1 or 2 Autarchs can really hep get the Eldar in battle as needed.

At 2K I can field about 8 skimmer including 2 autarchs; at least a couple Elites, and 4 troop choices... so the list is far from soft or easy to beat; even with Drop pods... Now I normally run Saim-Hann and I have found that even my all in the air Jetbike Style armies can work vs Drop Podds if I am real carefull, due to their ability to move and shoot on mass.

PS, The guy tried to hose you; but it might not have been intentional, so just go over things with people and their codex (rule bood too) and try not to get upset, I make mistakes and I've been playing for years... I get editions mixed up... codexes mixed up etc... so he might have simply "slipped' as well.

CaHG

[Straker]

Yea Mech Eldar I think helps a lot, considering DP armies have no mobility. So that helps, and on top of that coming in from reserves and moving flat out for a turn helps as well with the cover save. So yea, he may be able to snatch a tank, but that's not too bad considering DP armies need to hit WAY harder than that when they come in to work. After their in, and if all you've lost is 1 tank (with maybe a couple shakens or something) you should have control of most aspects of the game afterward, and ending strong is MUCH more important than starting strong.