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Author Topic: What would it take to storm the Imperial Palace?  (Read 66560 times)

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Offline Alex

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Re: What would it take to storm the Imperial Palace?
« Reply #600 on: February 11, 2006, 05:18:38 AM »
Heh heh. That's what I was getting that. They would probably excrete the waste in the form of weapon ammo or thicken their carapace.

Offline Irandrura

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Re: What would it take to storm the Imperial Palace?
« Reply #601 on: February 11, 2006, 05:19:48 AM »
But why do they have a mouth, then? Their head includes breathing organs, and they have weapons, they certainly don't need a mouth.

Because there are some things you just have to have, even if you a genetically engineered insect/dinosaur crossbreed bent on destroying all life.
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Offline Alex

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Re: What would it take to storm the Imperial Palace?
« Reply #602 on: February 11, 2006, 05:23:49 AM »
Oh my. I think I'll chime in before anyone makes a crude joke. ::)

It would sort of make sense, as often, Carnifices that are more powerful are also said to be older. Perhaps they are using waste material to harden their carapaces, ect?

Offline Irandrura

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Re: What would it take to storm the Imperial Palace?
« Reply #603 on: February 11, 2006, 06:06:29 AM »
Well, if they don't eat, why would they excrete? There is no output without input.

Is it possible that all Tyranid warrior creatures are created with a limited lifespan? Even a Hive Tyrant, since it can't eat, has a limited amount of time to live. It's born, it kills things, eventually it either dies in battle or starves. If the Tyranids could reconstitute creatures quickly and efficiently enough, there could be no real need for a longer lifespan.

It also avoids the problem of a Hive Tyrant (or anything else with an independent consciousness) getting rebellious thoughts.
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Offline Erenthal

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Re: What would it take to storm the Imperial Palace?
« Reply #604 on: February 11, 2006, 06:19:33 AM »
About the mouths... Why do zombies gorge on man-flesh even though they cannot digest it?

My personal theory, and the one that is most logical, is that the mouth serves several purposes:

1. It is an additional source of breathing.

2. It functions as a weapon with all those razor-teeth and what-not.

3. It allows the Tyranid to "harvest". Not that it has any use for the Nid itself, but every Nid is programmed to stuff their stomaches with biological material, that will be reclaimed when the Nid itself is reclaimed.
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Offline Irandrura

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Re: What would it take to storm the Imperial Palace?
« Reply #605 on: February 11, 2006, 06:27:47 AM »
1. It is an additional source of breathing.

Do 'Nids need to breathe? It's possibly that one is 'powered' entirely internally.

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2. It functions as a weapon with all those razor-teeth and what-not.

That's the first thing that occurred to me, but it's not exactly a practical weapon, not when you could give the 'Nids another set of razor claws.

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3. It allows the Tyranid to "harvest". Not that it has any use for the Nid itself, but every Nid is programmed to stuff their stomaches with biological material, that will be reclaimed when the Nid itself is reclaimed.

I'd say that's the function on Rippers and some of the other low-level Tyranids, but I can't see a Carnifex or something being used for that.
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Offline Erenthal

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Re: What would it take to storm the Imperial Palace?
« Reply #606 on: February 11, 2006, 06:36:23 AM »
1. It is an additional source of breathing.

Do 'Nids need to breathe? It's possibly that one is 'powered' entirely internally.

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2. It functions as a weapon with all those razor-teeth and what-not.

That's the first thing that occurred to me, but it's not exactly a practical weapon, not when you could give the 'Nids another set of razor claws.

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3. It allows the Tyranid to "harvest". Not that it has any use for the Nid itself, but every Nid is programmed to stuff their stomaches with biological material, that will be reclaimed when the Nid itself is reclaimed.

I'd say that's the function on Rippers and some of the other low-level Tyranids, but I can't see a Carnifex or something being used for that.

Those are of course good points. In the end, we can't really explain why GW decided to draw them with mouths...

As usual, it's an artistic decision that doesn't always combine with the fluff... as with so many other things in the GW-verse :)
« Last Edit: February 11, 2006, 06:39:53 AM by Erenthal »
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Offline Talos Claw

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Re: What would it take to storm the Imperial Palace?
« Reply #607 on: February 11, 2006, 09:10:25 AM »
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People, especially younger ones (and let's face it, many of you are young) tend to become very psychologically attached to fictional factions in various games, hinging your entire self-esteem on them. Thus, the rabid defense of this faction, even in the face of the cool and sensible logic that has been provided time and time again by such heroes as Irandrura.

And can you prove that you are any different?

You view Irandura as a "hero" just because you believe he is right.

I came to this subject with an open mind (before I started playing Tyranids) and decided that the Nids could easily crush Terra, and most arguments to the contrary in fluff were simply the hyped-up good-side fluff. That is the only way I make such decisions, based on facts.

If and when I am proven wrong, I will gladly admit that Nids stand no chance. But until I see evidence (irrefutable evidence) that this is true, I will continue to believe the logical conclusion I see when looking at the subject by myself.


I am NOT rabid, and I take offense to the fact that you think my entire mental sanity relies upon a fictinal game.

Thank you.

Offline Dr. Ravingburger

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Re: What would it take to storm the Imperial Palace?
« Reply #608 on: February 11, 2006, 09:28:05 AM »
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OK plain and simply, give me the hive mind and ill have a crack at some little palace. Not like a few custodians and some squishy marine boys are going to stop me!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Tongue
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Anyways
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Do 'Nids need to breathe? It's possibly that one is 'powered' entirely internally.
I believe they don't need to, like all living creatures. I believe this brcause Hive Ships, for example, are living Tyranid organisms, and they float around in space.
Another matter  thought of: You guys forget what the numbers would do. The Bio-Titans and Monstorus Creatures, and even Synapse creatures could not make it to everywhere because all the hordes of gaunts you guys say it will take will be blocking them. If they had to crush them to get to a place, they could easily take casualties, as the Gaunts are probably cluttered together.

Offline Erenthal

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Re: What would it take to storm the Imperial Palace?
« Reply #609 on: February 11, 2006, 09:42:31 AM »
And can you prove that you are any different?

You view Irandura as a "hero" just because you believe he is right.

No, I admire Irandrura because he takes the time to construct arguments that are underpinned by a strong sense of logic and common sense. On the other hand, most of your arguments have consisted of you plain out saying: "No, that won't work because I say so."

Simply put, you don't really think hard before you argue, do you?


But please, don't take this as a flame, rather a a criticism of your debating techniques.

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I am NOT rabid, and I take offense to the fact that you think my entire mental sanity relies upon a fictinal game.

Thank you.

I never named any names. But if you feel like the shoe fits, then it fits.

EDIT: But to spin on regarding the psychological aspects, this is really no different than cheering on a soccer team. Why do people get angry when they lose, and why do they get into fights with other supporters? Because it is good to belong... if you can support your ego with a larger community, it makes you feel good, even if it sometimes flies in the face of logic.

Don't make it out as if I'm portraying people as insane. I'm simply pointing out a common psychological fact, one that is very prevalent in adolescent populations.
« Last Edit: February 11, 2006, 09:46:36 AM by Erenthal »
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Offline Malificant

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Re: What would it take to storm the Imperial Palace?
« Reply #610 on: February 11, 2006, 09:46:33 AM »
ok, firstly they have mouths because it makes them look cool, more real, and because a model w/o a mouth would look silly.  remember, the fluff wise, design wise, and game wise are different things entirly.  you cant even imagine how much of a factor "because it looks cool" goes into making the models and concept scetches.

and nids use all of their left-over organisms after a campaign for harvesting.  it is quicker, and more efficiant.  everything harvests bio-mass, from rippers to heirophants.

and the loxatle stand the best chance of storming the palace, because so little is known about them.

on a side note, i smell ordo xenos coming as an army soon, as the xenology book was just released by GW.  saweet.
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Offline Erenthal

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Re: What would it take to storm the Imperial Palace?
« Reply #611 on: February 11, 2006, 09:50:33 AM »
and the loxatle stand the best chance of storming the palace, because so little is known about them.

The loxatl are a very minor race harking from one small sub-sector. Sure, they are quite proficient, but really no match for well-equipped and motivated Guardsmen, not to mention Marines...

There a literally thousands upon thousands of small xenos races like the Loxatl out there. None of them pose significant enough of a threat to warrant extinction. Yet.
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Offline Blood Hawk

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Re: What would it take to storm the Imperial Palace?
« Reply #612 on: February 11, 2006, 10:50:59 AM »
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I came to this subject with an open mind (before I started playing Tyranids) and decided that the Nids could easily crush Terra, and most arguments to the contrary in fluff were simply the hyped-up good-side fluff. That is the only way I make such decisions, based on facts.

If and when I am proven wrong, I will gladly admit that Nids stand no chance. But until I see evidence (irrefutable evidence) that this is true, I will continue to believe the logical conclusion I see when looking at the subject by myself.

The problem is there are very few facts on this subject.  All the numbers i have seen are estimates.  GW makes the just the basics for the fluff and has never gone that detailed into whats out the there much there is of it.  Must the fluff we have sums up a whole universe in less than 100 pages.  If you made it book entirely explaining earth in 100 or less pages it be extremely board and not be a good source for determing facts.  And how do we not know that the Eldar wouldn't intervene when terra would be attacked?  They don't seem to like nids and also seem to like to have the imperium around.

Offline Zzarchov

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Re: What would it take to storm the Imperial Palace?
« Reply #613 on: February 11, 2006, 11:08:52 AM »
You know, just because they are grown doesn't mean nids can be built any quicker than you can mass produce anything else, say a tank.

  While rippers and other simple organisms can be built fairly quickly,  more complex organisms,  just like more complex inorganic machines,  would take longer to grow, as such they would probably be able to eat and live along time (no sense wasting breeding time)

Offline Chuckles, The Space Marine Clown

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Re: What would it take to storm the Imperial Palace?
« Reply #614 on: February 11, 2006, 11:42:12 AM »
Woah, WOAH, WOAH! Careful guys, this is wandering a little too close to the flaming. It's natural for us to defend out point of view, and for many topics it is very difficult to accept that we might be wrong. I suspect that for some this is the case with this topic.

I can't say I view Irandrura as a hero. He's bloody hard to beat in an argument, I will say that for him  ;). Of course, his tendency to disbelieve fluff written in the Codices of races besides the Imperium is rather irritating, but what can you do.

Tyranids apparently do need to breathe. Take a gaunt. Look at the side of its head. See those little holes? They're called spiracles, and they're a very common respiratory tool in the insect world. I like the third explanation the most. Even Carnifex get absorbed by the Hive Fleets at the end of a world's "digestion", it makes sense to make use of the matter they ingest as a natural attack instinct rather than let them excrete some of it as part of their digestion process.
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Offline Talos Claw

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Re: What would it take to storm the Imperial Palace?
« Reply #615 on: February 11, 2006, 02:38:45 PM »
And can you prove that you are any different?

You view Irandura as a "hero" just because you believe he is right.

No, I admire Irandrura because he takes the time to construct arguments that are underpinned by a strong sense of logic and common sense. On the other hand, most of your arguments have consisted of you plain out saying: "No, that won't work because I say so."

If you cannot prove this statement, you have no grounds for saying it. So prove it.


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Simply put, you don't really think hard before you argue, do you?

Prove it?


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But please, don't take this as a flame, rather a a criticism of your debating techniques.

Yes, personal insults don't count as flames.


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I am NOT rabid, and I take offense to the fact that you think my entire mental sanity relies upon a fictinal game.

Thank you.

I never named any names. But if you feel like the shoe fits, then it fits.

You were talking about everybody, yes every single person that disagrees with you.

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EDIT: But to spin on regarding the psychological aspects, this is really no different than cheering on a soccer team. Why do people get angry when they lose, and why do they get into fights with other supporters? Because it is good to belong... if you can support your ego with a larger community, it makes you feel good, even if it sometimes flies in the face of logic.

Wouldn't it support my ego more to go over to your side and then have everyone agreeing with me?

I support the side that I feel is right.


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Don't make it out as if I'm portraying people as insane. I'm simply pointing out a common psychological fact, one that is very prevalent in adolescent populations.

You cannot evey prove that I am an adolescent. So prove it, before you make such assumptions.

Thank you.

Offline nurgle5

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Re: What would it take to storm the Imperial Palace?
« Reply #616 on: February 11, 2006, 02:58:26 PM »
oh boy another topic weighed down by discussions that have nothing to with it'
all this, oh tyranids are the best race ever and could wipe out anything.
come off it, i could just blab on about how orks will rule the galaxy, all 32 quitillion of them and how if you kill one about a hundred more pop up.
i know this might sound fake( due to my picture) but i collect every army in 40k and have read lots of backround info, i came to the conclusion that orks will be the ones to rule the galaxy. their society knows no stress or anguish, they are immune to the whispers of chaos( although some accidentally worship nurgle believing effigy's of him to be gork or mork), they are asexual meaning they breed and grow faster and their immense unconscious psychic power means ork weapons and machinery work as they believe they should work.if all of you are willing to let this turn into which army is best i will fight in the orks corner

Offline Erenthal

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Re: What would it take to storm the Imperial Palace?
« Reply #617 on: February 11, 2006, 03:23:21 PM »
I'm terribly sorry and I apologise to everyone involved that I have to drag this shuddering carcass of a topic out in the wild and molest it further. I just felt obliged to respond. If that is deemed unfit by the mods, feel free to delete mine and Talos Claw's little spat.

No, I admire Irandrura because he takes the time to construct arguments that are underpinned by a strong sense of logic and common sense. On the other hand, most of your arguments have consisted of you plain out saying: "No, that won't work because I say so."

If you cannot prove this statement, you have no grounds for saying it. So prove it.

I don't have to prove it, since one cannot prove a personal opinion. I can only stand for that myself.

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Simply put, you don't really think hard before you argue, do you?

Prove it?

Personal opinion, and not something quantifiable.


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But please, don't take this as a flame, rather a a criticism of your debating techniques.

Yes, personal insults don't count as flames.

Where did I insult you? Was it when I implied that you didn't always think it fully through before you post? Well, in that case I apologise, but then neither do I sometimes.

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I never named any names. But if you feel like the shoe fits, then it fits.

You were talking about everybody, yes every single person that disagrees with you.

Please, feel free to point out exactly where in the following piece I specifically said that EVERYONE who doesn't agree with me is rabid:

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I'm just terribly allergic to using any sort of fan-based material. People, especially younger ones (and let's face it, many of you are young) tend to become very psychologically attached to fictional factions in various games, hinging your entire self-esteem on them. Thus, the rabid defense of this faction

Note, I said people, not mentioning any group or names. I also said faction, implying that I could just as well be talking about "my" side. A long time on the net has taught me to be very careful when making statements, and therefore I usually take these precautions. But then, some people can interpret things anyway they want to.

(Oh yes, by some I meant you! Hah!)
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EDIT: But to spin on regarding the psychological aspects, this is really no different than cheering on a soccer team. Why do people get angry when they lose, and why do they get into fights with other supporters? Because it is good to belong... if you can support your ego with a larger community, it makes you feel good, even if it sometimes flies in the face of logic.

Wouldn't it support my ego more to go over to your side and then have everyone agreeing with me?

I support the side that I feel is right.

Speaking generally, people do not switch "faction" once they have picked one, barring very strong reasons. Since so much self-worth is invested in the defense of the faction, it is extremely painful to abandon it and embrace a new one.

Note, I'm speaking generally here, and am in no way implying you!

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Don't make it out as if I'm portraying people as insane. I'm simply pointing out a common psychological fact, one that is very prevalent in adolescent populations.

You cannot evey prove that I am an adolescent. So prove it, before you make such assumptions.

Thank you.

Did I in the above sentence specifically say that YOU were an adolescent? No. What's that whirring sound? Oh, that's you, interpreting things!

Besides, my generalization was built upon a rather solid foundation. The demographics of this site's userbase has a "slight" shift towards the younger segment of the population. Therefore, it is perfectly reasonable, barring other facts, to assume that the user you are speaking to is an adolescent.

* * * *

That's it, I'll leave it be. The dead horse can be buried. If Talos Claw has any furhter issues he/she/it wishes to discuss, he/she/it (I don't want to make an unproven assumption) can PM me.

Very well, back on topic! (Although my nagging suspiscion is that the threads original purpse has long since been lost in the fog of unadultered off-topicing)
« Last Edit: February 11, 2006, 03:25:30 PM by Erenthal »
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Offline Talos Claw

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Re: What would it take to storm the Imperial Palace?
« Reply #618 on: February 11, 2006, 03:42:56 PM »
I'm terribly sorry and I apologise to everyone involved that I have to drag this shuddering carcass of a topic out in the wild and molest it further. I just felt obliged to respond. If that is deemed unfit by the mods, feel free to delete mine and Talos Claw's little spat.

I am merely defending myself, thank you.

If you cannot prove this statement, you have no grounds for saying it. So prove it.

I don't have to prove it, since one cannot prove a personal opinion. I can only stand for that myself.[/quote]

Then don't say it as if it were gospel truth.


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Simply put, you don't really think hard before you argue, do you?

Prove it?

Personal opinion, and not something quantifiable.

If you cannot prove an insult, it becomes even worse than if it's true. So just don't say it.


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But please, don't take this as a flame, rather a a criticism of your debating techniques.

Yes, personal insults don't count as flames.

Where did I insult you? Was it when I implied that you didn't always think it fully through before you post? Well, in that case I apologise, but then neither do I sometimes.

You insulted everybody who disagrees with you as one big group, actually.

And do I sense sarcasm in your "apology"?


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I never named any names. But if you feel like the shoe fits, then it fits.

You were talking about everybody, yes every single person that disagrees with you.


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Please, feel free to point out exactly where in the following piece I specifically said that EVERYONE who doesn't agree with me is rabid:

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People, especially younger ones (and let's face it, many of you are young) tend to become very psychologically attached to fictional factions in various games, hinging your entire self-esteem on them. Thus, the rabid defense of this faction

I also said faction, implying that I could just as well be talking about "my" side. A long time on the net has taught me to be very careful when making statements, and therefore I usually take these precautions. But then, some people can interpret things anyway they want to.

It is a generalisation, which is bad enough. If, for example, I was black, and you said "All blacks are ugly" or even "MOST blacks are ugly" should I not take offense because you did not say anything about me personally?

SUre you could have been talking about your own "faction", but you were talking to someone who was not in your faction.

So you are saying a long time on the net has taught you to leave yourself loopholes in your writing just in case someone doesn't like what you are writing?



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Wouldn't it support my ego more to go over to your side and then have everyone agreeing with me?

I support the side that I feel is right.

Speaking generally, people do not switch "faction" once they have picked one, barring very strong reasons. Since so much self-worth is invested in the defense of the faction, it is extremely painful to abandon it and embrace a new one.

I was talking about before I even posted on this thread.

You know, I know some things about psychology too. In an argument, if someone has degenerated to the level of flaming and insulting, that is usually because they have realized, subconsciously, that they cannot win the argument. The more you continue this line of thought, the more you prove your entire thesis wrong.


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Note, I'm speaking generally here, and am in no way implying you!

No, you are only speaking to me, to refute a point made by me. And since the topic we started with was the group of people who disagree with you (which includes me), no, you are not implying me, you are pointing a finger at me directly.

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You cannot even prove that I am an adolescent. So prove it, before you make such assumptions.

Did I in the above sentence specifically say that YOU were an adolescent? No. What's that whirring sound? Oh, that's you, interpreting things!

You associated people who disagree with you with adolescents. You are simply dodging everything I say, using your "experience". The point is what is meant and it's pretty clear what you meant. If it doesn't mean what you want it to mean, some serious editing is in order.

For example, you are associating a "whining sound" with me. You think I'm going to cry because someone I don't even know insults me? In truth, my issue is not about me personally, but with the fact that you are flaming on what is supposed to be a "clean and respectful" forum.

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Besides, my generalization was built upon a rather solid foundation. The demographics of this site's userbase has a "slight" shift towards the younger segment of the population. Therefore, it is perfectly reasonable, barring other facts, to assume that the user you are speaking to is an adolescent.

Note the word slight. If you flip a coin twice, or even three or four times, and receive the same answer, is that grounds to believe (assuming you have common sense) that the next time will be the same? The majority of people in this world are non-black, to use the same example as before, so does that mean you can insult blacks with impunity because you are not likely to be talking to one?


Thank you.

Offline Arcas

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Re: What would it take to storm the Imperial Palace?
« Reply #619 on: February 11, 2006, 03:55:14 PM »
*shrugs*

No really on topic posts for a while, and now it has become personal. It looks like it will be my last action as a moderator to lock this thread.

*click*

*takes off the uniform and puts on a playboy bunny suit*
« Last Edit: February 11, 2006, 04:53:37 PM by Devern Mark II »

 


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