Topic: 1000pt army using two assault on black reach sets

[waterbat]

HQ:
Warboss (power Klaw)-85
Warboss (power Klaw)-85

Elites:
x10 Nobz (x10 big choppas,x10 stikkbombz)-260

Troops:
x20 'ard Boyz (x20 stikkbombz,x2 Big shootas)-230
x20 Ork Boyz (x2 big shootas)-130

Fast Attack:
x3 Deff Koptas-105
x3 Deff Koptas-105

Please tell me what ya think!

[JimmyHatfield]

I think you paid too much for ard boyz.  It should be 80 pts more than the other squad.  Are you planning on joining your warbosses to the Ork squads?  You definitely need to kitbash a few bosspoles on the Nobz, maybe one big one that is a WAAGGHH banner.  That way the big expensive squad you got there won't run off the table at the first failed leadership roll.  Also stikkbombs are worthless on Orks because of our low initiative.  You might get some use from them on the Nobz squad but the boyz squads don't need them at all.

If you are looking to spend a few more pts, you could easily claim your WB has cybork enhancements or ard armor for the better saves.  Also don't forget about their bosspoles.

If you're in the krafting mood, you could also add a few buzzsaws onto the Koptas to get another AT threat. 

*EDIT  Oh wait, I see you've added another 20 pts to the hardboyz to give them stikkbombs.  Again not a good plan.

[waterbat]

With Jimmyhatfields help I've come up with two new lists with some minor differences.


1st list:

HQ:
Warboss ('eavy armor,power klaw)-90
Warboss ('eavy armor,power klaw)-90

Elites:
x10 Nobz (x10 big choppas,bosspole,Waaagh! banner)-270

Troops:
x20 'ard boyz (x2 big shootas)-210
x20 ork boyz (x2 big shootas)-130

Fast Attack:
x3 Deff Koptas
x3 Deff Koptas

2nd List:

HQ:
Warboss ('eavy armor,cybork armor,power klaw)-100
Warboss ('eavy armor,cybork armor,power klaw)-100

Elite:
x10 Nobz (x10 big choppas,bosspole,Waaagh! banner,x10 'eavy armor)-320

Troops:
x20 Ork boyz (x2 big shootas)-130
x20 Ork boyz (x2 big shootas)-130

Fast Attack:
x3 Deff Koptas-105
x3 Deff Koptas(x1 Rokkit launcha)-110

Just added in the rokkit cause i didn't know where else to put the extra ten points. Anyhow tell me which list is better or if both are utterly terrible!

[AXEBLADE]

The main problem is the lack of power klaws. Your nob squad will get tied up in combat with any MEQ's that you face due to their armour. Mork help you if you have to face terminators. 2 Pk's in the nob squad should be enough for them and it really helps to have some in the shoota boyz aswell incase a dread charges them.
I prefer the second list as the eavy armour is much more useful on the nobz than the boyz as they are more valuable.
I honestly wouldn't put the second warboss in the list at all. Think about it this way. 1 Warboss = 16 boyz.
All the deffkoptas need rokkits. The shoota boyz should cover your anti infantry requirements but you lack anti tank and defkopptas are one of the few good places to stick rokkits. You could also split them up into 3 squads of 2 instead to give them more target flexibility.

[USAFTACP]

I would remove 1 deffkopta and free up a few more points in order to give the remaining to buzzsaws. This is pretty much the only reliable way to make up some points with them. They're too squishy and too expensive to just use them to shoot things. With a buzzsaw you can outflank for a pretty much guaranteed kill or if you get first turn you can scout turbo boost and get a first turn assault. All it takes is one popped vehicle and you've made up your points.

[Heretek]

I don't find there to be much truth in that, USAFTACP. I routinely field two squads of three Deffkoptas with full rokkits and no buzzsaws, they do quite well for themselves. Generally they outflank in from reserve, put a few rokkits up something's tailpipe and then get stuck into assault where multiple wounds and high toughness let them tie up a squad for a while. Buzzsaws are certainly handy things to have, but they aren't the "only reliable way" to use a Deffkopta squadron.

Waterbat, of the two new lists, the second would be my choice. I would agree with Warblade the Nobz could use some power klaws, since I'm assuming you'll be joining each of your Warbosses to a Boyz mob. I would consider dropping out the rokkit deffkopta to give you the points. A single rokkit isn't likely to do that much damage, certainly not as much as a pair of klaws on the Nobz.

[USAFTACP]

A squad of three deffkoptas with rokkits costs 135 points. I used to run those in my 1k list and they just don't fare that well considering their cost. Sure you get 3 chances to hit but you have to deal with the crappy BS, while just one deffkopta with rokkits and a buzzsaw is cheaper at only 70 points and still a more reliable vehicle killer than 3 rokkits. Hell for just 5 more points you can have two deffkoptas with rokkits and buzzsaws.

Since the chances of killing something with 3 rokkits isn't the best, if that vehicle is still alive you can't assault a different unit to tie yourself up. Turbo boosting/outflanking deffkoptas in the middle of your enemy's army makes them the highest priority, so you pretty much only get one chance to pop something.

[Heretek]

A squad of three deffkoptas with rokkits costs 135 points. I used to run those in my 1k list and they just don't fare that well considering their cost. Sure you get 3 chances to hit but you have to deal with the crappy BS, while just one deffkopta with rokkits and a buzzsaw is cheaper at only 70 points and still a more reliable vehicle killer than 3 rokkits. Hell for just 5 more points you can have two deffkoptas with rokkits and buzzsaws.

Perhaps I should have mentioned then that I usually play games at the 1500-2000 point level, where such an investment is less costly. I would also say that a buzzsaw is only more reliable if the vehicle hasn't moved, otherwise you have roughly the same chance of hitting* if the vehicle has moved up to 6", less chance of hitting if it's moved up to 12" and you lose a point of strength either way. It's also easier to kill a single Deffkopta than three Deffkoptas, obviously.

Since the chances of killing something with 3 rokkits isn't the best, if that vehicle is still alive you can't assault a different unit to tie yourself up. Turbo boosting/outflanking deffkoptas in the middle of your enemy's army makes them the highest priority, so you pretty much only get one chance to pop something.

I actually disagree that they become even a higher priority, never mind the highest. My regular opponents generally seem content to ignore my Deffkoptas in favour of the advancing Boyz and war machines. Usually I get at least two turns to pop off rokkits and zoom around. And if my opponent does decide to dedicate some shooting to bringing them down, great! They're a nuisance, not an integral part of my plan. Any fire they take is fire that's not being directed at something else.

*if I've worked it out properly, 5's to hit with a re-roll is more or less the same as 4's to hit.

[JimmyHatfield]

I'd say go all out with the HQs.  They need Bosspoles in case you need to make a leadership test.  if you are using the basic AoBR model then add TL shoota, Pwr klw, Bosspole, Cybork and Hard armor.  You could on the other hand swap those TL shootas onto the Nobs squad...a whole squad of Nobz with TL shootas and Big Choppas/powerKlaws...That'd be mighty sweet.

Another option you have is to drop 2 Nobz off the Nobz squad and plunk them into your boyz squads.  They can get bosspoles and powerklaws, and that way if your Boss sees a juicy target he can disengage from the squad and you don't take such a leadership punch.

Of course I would strongly suggest the next item you purchase is a normal Nobz box.  all those bitz would go great with the new Nob models you currently have, and get you a few extra bodies for say...putting Nobz in your boyz squads.