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Author Topic: Communism: A Tour  (Read 80467 times)

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Offline Captain Leonidas

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Re: Communism: A Tour
« Reply #40 on: April 22, 2005, 03:00:15 AM »
Why should the rich have to help you? Most rich people at some point in there family history had someone who went out there working really hard to become rich. If you want to be rich get out there, and work for it. The rich already help you by paying more in taxes then any other class.

Because the poor work for the rich and the rich ruled over the poor. Ways of rich getting their power might be honest but might not be too. The biggest point is the gap created result in an uneasy and continuous enmity. Mankind should help each other, not tyrannize each other.
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Offline Wurzelmaniac

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Re: Communism: A Tour
« Reply #41 on: April 22, 2005, 06:03:18 AM »
Why should the rich have to help you? Most rich people at some point in there family history had someone who went out there working really hard to become rich. If you want to be rich get out there, and work for it. The rich already help you by paying more in taxes then any other class.

A hell of a lot of rich people are that way because of an accident of birth. If I were the son of Bill Gates then I would be insanely rich, what had I done to deserve that?
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Offline -Makenshi-

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Re: Communism: A Tour
« Reply #42 on: April 22, 2005, 10:27:26 PM »
Hmmm, I'll have to read up on the rest anothe time when it isn't 3:30 in the mroning, although I'm starting to take an intrest in this subject (always was mildly interetsed once I foudn out communism isn't what most people think that is) so I may ask soem questions here ;).

Although out of the oens I've read I'd have to say I prefer Anachro-Communism, but I haven't read much yet so I'll reserve my full judgement for now.

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Offline Captain Leonidas

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Re: Communism: A Tour
« Reply #43 on: April 23, 2005, 03:52:44 AM »
Well although Wikipedia's neutrality can be disputed, its main articles are pretty much neutral and you could find comprehensive info on communism there. There are links too, to communist society/club/party worldwide but sometimes a few of them were no more than propaganda shells, which I quite dislike. Here is the link;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communism

They also contain anarcho-communism link there, but I suggest before you start reading anarcho-communism, it will be nice if you read about anarchism too, which the link is;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarchism

Many people misuse the term anarchy, because they always compare that without imposed order, chaos ensues, thus it is simultaneously 'anarchy' which is wrong. Happy reading!  :)
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Offline -Makenshi-

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Re: Communism: A Tour
« Reply #44 on: April 23, 2005, 06:09:08 AM »
I read anarchy first accidently, I'm aware of the misconception, there was someone on the news talking about it once, he was a political anarchist I think...

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Offline Wargamer

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Re: Communism: A Tour
« Reply #45 on: April 23, 2005, 06:52:56 AM »
An interesting read... I think you may be corrupting me to communism here... ;)



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Offline Captain Leonidas

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Re: Communism: A Tour
« Reply #46 on: April 23, 2005, 09:22:24 AM »
An interesting read... I think you may be corrupting me to communism here... ;)

Well I am a commissar, may duty is, ahem, to keep people in the line of revolution  ;)

But to tell you the truth, may own conversion to communism isn't a straight line either. Its more of a journey. I came from the higher ups of society yet got the dubious blessing of born in the third world, experience the pain, and receive a direct education from a mixed school with a Christian Marxist teacher. I doubt Eastern European could give you the accurate image for the need of communism, but I can assure you, a journey with the poor is a convincing method ever. It connects you to a whole different idea of humanity that is far from american idol, mp3, or britney spears.
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Offline Abuk

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Re: Communism: A Tour
« Reply #47 on: April 26, 2005, 02:32:46 PM »
I couldn't understand people who glorified the communism until I read the materials that contained descriptions of what communism should look like. It was a nessesity as I had to posses this knowladge to pass an exam allowing me to undertake studies.

And from what I have read (apart from the Engels-Marx theories, which are dedicated to and written by people with IQ of 40 or so) the communism should be the best of the best systems ever. It has some really great ideas and so on and so forth.

But the reality... Well, it is not that full of colours as the books sugest.


I should end my post heare but there is a little  P.S. that includes some of my thoughts and arguments against communism:
- in theory there shouldn't be high class and low class in the society  but every leader (as communism=totalitarism) of the communist country has the power, money and everything he wants as his colleagues do either;
besides- how can you pretend there are no differences between surgeon and the guy that is working as a road builder; should they get equal amounts of money?
- there is no freedom of choice in the communist coutry- you do what you are told
- the society degenerates as ,,everyone is equal'' so who is stupid enough to work hard when you can do nothing
- someone mentions the child of a Bill Gates... well, you won't become Bill Gates in the communism; what is wrong in improving reality and being paid for it?

Ideology really dosn't matter and believe me- there is no such things in existance as this or that type of communism. It all comes to ,,who controlls the power'' question. Communism= totalitarism.

Remember to see more than one point of view and the facts that are different than those virtual ideas presented in the books.

I don't like America with it's comerce either, but it is a lesser evil than communism as you can turn away your sight and no one will claim you are ,,The enemy of the working people''.


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Offline Dark Exodus

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Re: Communism: A Tour
« Reply #48 on: April 26, 2005, 06:41:57 PM »
"but every leader (as communism=totalitarism) of the communist country has the power, money and everything he wants as his colleagues do either;"

What leader?
Direct your studies away from the USSR in future.

Offline Captain Leonidas

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Re: Communism: A Tour
« Reply #49 on: April 26, 2005, 08:33:35 PM »
but every leader (as communism=totalitarism) of the communist country has the power, money and everything he wants as his colleagues do either

The statement of communist country or communist state is an oxymoron. There has been no communist country nor they ever will be if it is true communism. 'The State of being communist' perhaps. Communism aims to abolish country and power. As simple as that. The samples you use in history is part of Marx' theory of steps of estabilishment of communism called Dictatorship of The Ploretariat, the part that I reject. Communism didn't start with Marx; it has started looooong ago and practiced by a few historical figures perhaps familiar to you. Example being Jesus and Peter (Liberation Theology). Direct democracy. It is workable and there has been 'state of communism' in past and it is NOT A STATE. It is 'society'
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Offline Scars

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Re: Communism: A Tour
« Reply #50 on: April 28, 2005, 10:26:02 PM »
Hm... know any socialists that I can get in touch with in Palmy, Scars?

Well at least I think I am one. Don't really believe in revolution, or eliminating government. Just wanna see the rich take care of the poor for a change. That makes me one, right?

Me! ;)

But really, there's very little activity in Palmerston North. There's a couple of Socialist Worker members floating around, probably some International Socialist Organisation members due to the university. Past that, nothing. It's sad to see that the National 'Heil Hitler' Front has more support here.

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Offline Captain Leonidas

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Re: Communism: A Tour
« Reply #51 on: April 28, 2005, 11:16:38 PM »
Welcome back Scars. I'd be more than happy seeing you bite and doggie-bag conservative rights in the discussion board  ;)
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Offline Major BigBadOgryn

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Re: Communism: A Tour
« Reply #52 on: April 29, 2005, 10:01:11 PM »
Good to see you back scars.

Do you guys know where I can find the constitution of Vietnam? Internet, book, etc. I've been having arguements with some classmates about how wrong we were to enter that war.

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Offline Captain Leonidas

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Re: Communism: A Tour
« Reply #53 on: April 29, 2005, 10:17:05 PM »
http://www.vietnamembassy-usa.org/learn/gov-constitution.php3

Have you seen this link ?

I do recall reading somewhere that when Vietnam is still fighting against French, Vietnamese communist' declaration of independece were in fact, modelled after US' declaration of independence! Ho Chi Minh himself is quoted to have said 'There is nothing more precious than freedom and liberty'

http://www.vietquoc.com/0007VQ.HTM
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The irony of this declaration was its repeat of what King Bao-Dai had declared earlier. In the declaration , Ho Chi Minh plagiarized a famous statement from the Declaration of Independence of the USA: "All men are created equal." Under his regime's title "Democratic Republic of Vietnam" is the motto - still remaining today - "Independence - Freedom - Happiness," which was again plagiarized from the Sun Yatsen's "Three-People Doctrine."

The communist' dream are not much different to the early American independence makers, really. Just that perhaps their dream is much more 'revolutionary'.
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Offline Major BigBadOgryn

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Re: Communism: A Tour
« Reply #54 on: April 29, 2005, 10:32:57 PM »
Thank you oh most knowing and Emperor-Blessed Commissar.

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Offline Claw

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Re: Communism: A Tour
« Reply #55 on: May 3, 2005, 07:19:43 PM »
Communism in my opinion is not all that bad (but still it has problems all forms of goverment do) but with all goverments it is usually the leaders fault and how he runs things, (Like Stalin).

Offline Tubsy McOwnage

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Re: Communism: A Tour
« Reply #56 on: May 3, 2005, 10:53:41 PM »
are you blaming stalin for the collapse of communist russia?
LIAR!
wait was it lenin or staling that began the communist ruling of russia?
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Offline Captain Leonidas

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Re: Communism: A Tour
« Reply #57 on: May 3, 2005, 11:19:40 PM »
Communism in my opinion is not all that bad (but still it has problems all forms of goverment do) but with all goverments it is usually the leaders fault and how he runs things, (Like Stalin).

The problem with most communist strain is that they believe steps of revolution is required and centralized leadership is necessary, something that we have seen as a failure. That is why I do not advocate steps of socialism bull and instead go directly to dissolution of government and individual empowerment (as in anarchism/anarcho-communism).

Communism need not to be done through bloody change. And communists need not necessarily anti religion/God and so forth. Instead if true communism put in practice, no religious/racial bigotry could be tolerated, as communism advocate strongly against any racism.
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Offline Abuk

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Re: Communism: A Tour
« Reply #58 on: May 4, 2005, 03:01:39 PM »
I would like to know why some of you love the communism so much. Maybe try to fantasize a little and give us a short version of what you think would be best for the mankind (I mean the world seen through red glasses) and what makes this type of political doctrine better than others. I guess it won't be that much off-topic and that Scars won't mind (would you Scars? ???).

What do you think?


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Offline Claw

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Re: Communism: A Tour
« Reply #59 on: May 4, 2005, 03:13:57 PM »
are you blaming stalin for the collapse of communist russia?
LIAR!
wait was it lenin or staling that began the communist ruling of russia?

It was Lenin then Stalin tookover after him but I read that Lenin did not want him to be the next leader, but when Lenin died Stalin put his loyal guyz in the goverment and so Trotsky who helped during the revolution was not Lenin's sucessor and he fled to Mexico where he was assasinated by a Stalinist, and in my opinion Stalin was evil, but he did keep Communist Russia afloat up to after WWII and before it, but yet he did have those secret Police and he did kill millions of his own Russians, or so I have read.

 


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