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Author Topic: 60 Years of Victory  (Read 2138 times)

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Offline Leonates80

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Re: 60 Years of Victory
« Reply #40 on: July 13, 2005, 05:30:36 AM »
guided missile systems (V1 , V2)
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guided missile systems (V1 , V2)
They were`t guided , not at all - altthought the were in a way effective (especially v2 against there was no possible way of defending)
EDIT= germans experimented with guided gliding bombs - but afaik never to large scale
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Tiger I/II = best tank of the war

Is it? The t-34 was easier to produce , had less fuel consumption and was design better ( very smoothend hull allowing shells to "slide" on it) , although Tiger was a massive tank it had serious engine problems and was cubersome - Panther on the other hand was much better and effective...

EDIT:
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As for commissars, the German army have their own 'commissars' in the form of SS political officers accompanying armies.

They weren`t in line Wehrnmacht units and didn`t have any real power over wehrmacht officers - totally opposite to the russian style where NKWD division where behind frontlines ensuring that there was "no retreat" and pacifing occupied terrietories(latvia Lithuania Estonia Poland....)
In Poland there is a saying about russian army - "Thank you red pox for saving us from black death"
« Last Edit: July 13, 2005, 07:52:42 AM by Leonates80 »
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Offline Captain Leonidas

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Re: 60 Years of Victory
« Reply #41 on: July 13, 2005, 09:44:48 AM »
They weren`t in line Wehrnmacht units and didn`t have any real power over wehrmacht officers

In theory.

In practice ? On and off changes of officers are routine, not always perfomance based in also but political reasoning. I'll get you the source. I read about it just last week.

Even Wehrmacht officers fear the gestapo.
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Offline Leonates80

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Re: 60 Years of Victory
« Reply #42 on: July 13, 2005, 11:22:23 AM »
Yup - they sure did - but never they got executed - Stauffenberg Case is an exeption - they might have been striped of medals and ranks and sent to Eastern Front, or as in most cases retired or send somewhereelse - if they messed up really bad but never sentenced to capital punishment!  This is the difference - Red Army soliders an officers got shot on the spot by NKWD, they didn`t even get trial , not even a fake one! 
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Offline Lomendil

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Re: 60 Years of Victory
« Reply #43 on: July 13, 2005, 08:09:23 PM »
superior armour?

germany had the most superior and advanced armour in the war and definently outgunned the russians in that department.

All of which were outclassed by the JS-2 and 3.

T-34 owned all early German tanks.

The T-34/85 could deal with the later German tanks, though was likely to lose a 1 vs 1 fight - though of course, it would usually be at least 5 vs 1 in favour of the Russians. They had a vast superiority in numbers and were also faster and more mechanically reliable.

The JS-2 could take on all but the heaviest German tanks on equal terms. It had a huge gun for the times, 122mm. A King Tiger or a Jagdtiger would probably outclass it (though not by much), but again these were only produced in small numbers, were slow and suffered breakdowns all the time.

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the only real advantage the russians had was the effectively cheap tank designs which was pumped out in mass production in the post 42 era.

Indeed - and in WWII, quantity was better than quality. Stalin himself said that 'Quantity has a quality all of its own'. He was proven right.

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Tiger I/II = best tank of the war

No. The JS-2 was a better tank all-round, with a more powerful gun and better speed and reliability. The JS-3 was better still but it's not even known if that was produced in time to see action in WWII. The Centurion is similar - it was built within WWII, was better than the Tiger, though it never saw action.

For the Germans, the Panther was probably their best tank. Due to sloped armour it was almost as durable as a Tiger, and the high velocity 75mm gun was as deadly as an 88. It was easier to build, faster and more reliable than the Tiger.

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and above that the average german soldier was better trained , equipped (initially speaking) and didnt have the threat of kommissars behind them

The threat of Kommissars actually spurred conscripts on - I'd argue them as a plus point for the Russians, as inhumanly brutal as they were.

It's not like the Russians had no good infantry though. Siberians were well known to be tough and competant, amongst others.

guided missile systems (V1 , V2)
Quote
guided missile systems (V1 , V2)
They were`t guided , not at all - altthought the were in a way effective (especially v2 against there was no possible way of defending)
EDIT= germans experimented with guided gliding bombs - but afaik never to large scale

The Germans did actually invent wire-guided air-to-air missiles for downing bombers, but they were only tested very late in '45.

Offline alienspokinatcha

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Re: 60 Years of Victory
« Reply #44 on: July 13, 2005, 08:26:30 PM »
did you not hear of comrade stalin's officer purge just before the action? this was done my kommissars
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Offline Captain Hajime

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Re: 60 Years of Victory
« Reply #45 on: July 13, 2005, 08:31:33 PM »
Yup - they sure did - but never they got executed - Stauffenberg Case is an exeption - they might have been striped of medals and ranks and sent to Eastern Front, or as in most cases retired or send somewhereelse - if they messed up really bad but never sentenced to capital punishment!  This is the difference - Red Army soliders an officers got shot on the spot by NKWD, they didn`t even get trial , not even a fake one! 

The T-34 during it first appearance broke through the German lines destroy a huge amount of abuse and only was stopped by getting hit by a 155 mm Howitzer at short range. The early easter Front the German Armour owned, after the t-34 it was not so powerful.

Yeah, the Eastern front! pretty much a death sentence anyway. Certainly a Miserable way to spend the war. Remember the Russians were not big on prisoners.
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Offline Lomendil

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Re: 60 Years of Victory
« Reply #46 on: July 13, 2005, 09:21:56 PM »
did you not hear of comrade stalin's officer purge just before the action? this was done my kommissars

Yep, and it severely weakened the army as a result. Experienced officers were in short supply. It leads onto why Kommissars were important to Russian tactics. The Red Army tended to use a lot simplistic human wave assaults as their officers were generally not up to anything more subtle. Human waves are actually an effective tactic as they do usually take their objective. You just need lots of expendable infantry and some way to motivate them - in the case of the Red Army, a large part was the Kommissars.

The T-34 during it first appearance broke through the German lines destroy a huge amount of abuse and only was stopped by getting hit by a 155 mm Howitzer at short range.

That was actually a KV-1, unless the same thing happened with both types of tank - which is possible, stranger things have happened.

Offline Leonates80

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Re: 60 Years of Victory
« Reply #47 on: July 14, 2005, 02:44:11 PM »
Please notice that there is a diference between Commisars (political officers) and officers of security forces (NKWD) (although almost always commies had NKWD past) , the second ones were carring out cmrd. Stalin orders to purge military officer corps....
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