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Author Topic: Returning to 40k: Ulthwe vs. Alaitoc craftworld attributes  (Read 827 times)

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Offline bca11

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Returning to 40k: Ulthwe vs. Alaitoc craftworld attributes
« on: December 14, 2017, 08:57:45 PM »
Greetings.

I've been out of the game since 5th edition and have just recently started back. I have played one game so far in 8th edition, and I was mostly satisfied with my unit performance.

As my opponent and I were both new to 8th, and we were intrigued by the power system, we both field a 100 power list. I played an Ulthwe list and he played vanilla Space Marines.  It was a solid win for the Eldar, and I was shocked and how well a few things worked, namely:

  • Shadowstrike on a striking scorpions unit + Karandras, using webway strike to bring in 2 warlocks with quicken / restrain. This got me an instant charge with only overwatch fire to worry about, easily wrecking the captain and intercessors holed up in the woods.
  • Dark reapers. I only used 2 + and exarch with tempest launcher, but they took a massive toll.
     Will probably start including 10+.
  • Guided warwalkers with starcannons. Using them +the "forewarned" strategem to immediately delete an inceptor squad as soon as it dropped was devastating.
  • Dire avengers with Asurmen buffing them. The 4++ was great and helped them live through much more fire than I had been used to in previous editions. The 6+ effect of their weapons was very effective too, considering the number of shots they can put out.
  • The speed of footslogging Eldar in general. With quicken, a squad can be in firing range of a target that looks impossibly distant in no time.

Does anyone have any other combos / units that impressed them with their effectiveness? If so I'd love to hear about it.

On to my main question. I'm torn between the Ulthwe "Foresight of the Damned" and Alaitoc's "Fieldcraft." Has anyone tried both in multiple games? What have you found better results with?

Thanks.

Offline The Mattler

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Re: Returning to 40k: Ulthwe vs. Alaitoc craftworld attributes
« Reply #1 on: December 14, 2017, 09:57:54 PM »
Welcome back!  8th edition is a great time for renewed interest in 40k. :)

Both Ulthwe and Alaitoc are good attributes, with Alaitoc being better over all because you can stack -1 modifiers with the aircraft, Lightning-Fast Reactions, Shadow Spectre Holo-fields, Conceal, Warp Spider Flickerjump, etc.  It also helps that most of the high-damage units are long ranged, with Reapers being the most convenient overall, especially with Forewarned.  It's scary.

Regarding the Power system, it's just a lazier points system in which 1 Power = 20pts.  There are a few exceptions where there's a substantial difference, but in almost every case you'll be able to make a much more efficient force using the points system because they Power system generally prices units at the level where they've taken a bunch of gear that simply isn't good for its points cost.  The big winners in the Power system are the vehicles, which get all of the upgrades.
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Offline bca11

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Re: Returning to 40k: Ulthwe vs. Alaitoc craftworld attributes
« Reply #2 on: December 14, 2017, 10:27:39 PM »
Thanks. If you had to build your firebase out of dark reapers or war walkers, which would you choose? I like both, and both seem pretty viable to me.

I don't own any aircraft yet, but I'm very interested in the hemlock wraithfighter. Have you used it and what psychic power would you recommend for it?

Offline Fenris

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Re: Returning to 40k: Ulthwe vs. Alaitoc craftworld attributes
« Reply #3 on: December 15, 2017, 02:33:49 AM »
Welcome back. :D
I mostly agree with the Mattler, but I think the Ulthwé attribute is a bit underrated, as it is always ON, even against mortal wounds. It helps a lot when holding on to objectives and makes eldar less of a glasscannon.

Scorpions and Karandras actually have some nice mutual benefit, try tossing an Autarch into the mix and the number of (exploding)hits would increase even further. The Avatar of Khaine has some nice combos with the scorpions as well.

A large unit of reapers is common in competitive lists now, either with forewarning or with Yvraine.

The 6+ effects of shuriken weapons works great with doom, not so sure about the 4++ from Asurmen though, as most weapons firing at Avengers have no AP anyway.

"Quicken" is a great power, almost rivaling "Doom" but for a hemlock I think Jinx is the best power as it even works against invulnerable saves and due to the hemlocks speed and short range makes it a great way to "paint" targets.

As for Dark reapers or War walkers, take both, but I would rather have Brightlances than starcannons on the War walkers.
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Offline Partninja

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Re: Returning to 40k: Ulthwe vs. Alaitoc craftworld attributes
« Reply #4 on: December 15, 2017, 10:07:50 AM »
I should point out, unless you're playing open play, you can't cast two of the same power in a turn. So in matched play only one of those two warlocks can cast quicken. So Karrandras and the Scorps can not both benefit. Of you're doing open play it's fine.

Offline bca11

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Re: Returning to 40k: Ulthwe vs. Alaitoc craftworld attributes
« Reply #5 on: December 15, 2017, 11:40:24 AM »
I should point out, unless you're playing open play, you can't cast two of the same power in a turn. So in matched play only one of those two warlocks can cast quicken. So Karrandras and the Scorps can not both benefit. Of you're doing open play it's fine.

I did use it on both. Can you point me to the rule that says that 2 different psykers can't both cast the same power? I'm looking at the psychic phase rules and the restrictions I see just refer to individual psykers not being able to repeat powers.

Matched play is my intent, as I want to get back to tournament play soon.

Offline The Mattler

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Re: Returning to 40k: Ulthwe vs. Alaitoc craftworld attributes
« Reply #6 on: December 15, 2017, 12:15:51 PM »
I did use it on both. Can you point me to the rule that says that 2 different psykers can't both cast the same power? I'm looking at the psychic phase rules and the restrictions I see just refer to individual psykers not being able to repeat powers.

Matched play is my intent, as I want to get back to tournament play soon.
It's in a box at the bottom of the 4th page in the Matched Play section the the rulebook.  There are also limitations on Strategems and Reinforcements in the same box.
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Offline Partninja

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Re: Returning to 40k: Ulthwe vs. Alaitoc craftworld attributes
« Reply #7 on: December 15, 2017, 04:17:51 PM »
I slightly misspoke as well. Other than Smite, you can't cast the same power twice in a turn (although, the new beta rules are even going to diminish smite spam somewhat).

Offline bca11

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Re: Returning to 40k: Ulthwe vs. Alaitoc craftworld attributes
« Reply #8 on: December 15, 2017, 08:52:31 PM »
Has anyone found this to be excessively limiting? I was envisioning a 3-4 farseer list with multiple guided reaper / walker units, using quicken spam to move a large dire avenger / guardian screen around as needed.

Thanks for the info though. Better finding out here than showing up at a tournament without having realized my error and getting nerfed on the spot.

Online Blazinghand

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Re: Returning to 40k: Ulthwe vs. Alaitoc craftworld attributes
« Reply #9 on: December 15, 2017, 09:10:43 PM »
Has anyone found this to be excessively limiting? I was envisioning a 3-4 farseer list with multiple guided reaper / walker units, using quicken spam to move a large dire avenger / guardian screen around as needed.

Thanks for the info though. Better finding out here than showing up at a tournament without having realized my error and getting nerfed on the spot.

The power limitation is part of why powers can be so strong, and encourages diversity. Certainly, I'd prefer if my Warlocks could all cast Quicken, but I suspect that if Matched Play allowed powers to be spammed, all powers would be made worse to balance it out.
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Offline Partninja

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Re: Returning to 40k: Ulthwe vs. Alaitoc craftworld attributes
« Reply #10 on: December 15, 2017, 09:28:18 PM »
Has anyone found this to be excessively limiting? I was envisioning a 3-4 farseer list with multiple guided reaper / walker units, using quicken spam to move a large dire avenger / guardian screen around as needed.

Thanks for the info though. Better finding out here than showing up at a tournament without having realized my error and getting nerfed on the spot.

Sort of, but it just requires you to be more specific in the units and combos you take. Combo a quicken warlock with Shining Spears or put an Autarch near your reapers for a "lesser" reroll affect. Alternatively instead of trying to guide multiple small units of reapers, take a larger squad to guide as well as the power that bolsters morale affects.

Offline The Mattler

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Re: Returning to 40k: Ulthwe vs. Alaitoc craftworld attributes
« Reply #11 on: December 15, 2017, 11:15:45 PM »
Has anyone found this to be excessively limiting? I was envisioning a 3-4 farseer list with multiple guided reaper / walker units, using quicken spam to move a large dire avenger / guardian screen around as needed.
You could also use Natural Leader (the Biel-Tan warlord trait) to get an extra unit with full re-rolls in the shooting phase.  Remember, too, that re-roll powers and Strategems really want large/expensive units to be worth using, so you may find that one Farseer with Natural Leader, Guide, and a second power of your choice can buff more than 500pts of War Walkers or Dark Reapers.  An Autarch, on the other hand, can still get value out of buffing many units simultaneously; large units still like his aura, but multiple small units don't diminish its value the way they do with Guide/Fortune/Natural Leader (not to mention the Runes of Battle powers.

What I'm really saying here is that you can still get the kind of buffing you want (for the most part) using of 1-2 each of Farseers, Autarchs, and Spiritseers.  You can equip the Spirit Stone of Anath'lan to a Spiritseer to make Quicken more reliable too, since the Farseers already have their runes, which helps make up for the lost redundancy of being able to attempt Qucken multiple times.  The SSoA could also save you a CP here and there as well.
Shuriken weaponry is the pinnacle of antiSpocklizardry in 40k.

Offline bca11

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Re: Returning to 40k: Ulthwe vs. Alaitoc craftworld attributes
« Reply #12 on: December 16, 2017, 02:17:34 AM »
I've considered the autarch and will probably end up using it. I do really hate the lack of wargear options on the standard autarch. Fluff-wise it would make sense for autarchs to have access to an array of weaponry, as they will have spent time in many (if not all) major warrior aspects prior to taking command.

Offline Partninja

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Re: Returning to 40k: Ulthwe vs. Alaitoc craftworld attributes
« Reply #13 on: December 16, 2017, 11:09:41 AM »
Thanks to a recent FAQ, you can still equip your Auatrchs with weapons of old. I'm sure someone will have the link handy. You should follow the community site of face book.

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« Last Edit: December 16, 2017, 11:35:40 AM by Partninja »

 


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