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Author Topic: Blood angels codex, NOW  (Read 19946 times)

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Offline NewHeretic

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Re: Blood angels codex, NOW
« Reply #40 on: January 16, 2009, 02:01:32 PM »
Changes I personally would like to see that bring BAs more in line while keeping them unique:

My paraphrase:  Let us keep all the cool BA stuff and give us all the cool new Codex: Space Marine stuff too.

Come on!  Are you serious?  I'm sorry if this sounds harsh, but is my paraphrase really that far off?

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Offline Guildmage Aech

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Re: Blood angels codex, NOW
« Reply #41 on: January 16, 2009, 02:31:29 PM »
HQ -
special characters
Chaplain (same stats as now, option to upgrade to dreadnought for mega HQ choice!)
Captain (more in line with codex one)
Libby (more psychic powers)

Have you even thought about what you're typing? You want the captian upgraded to the newer better one, but want to keep the older better stats for Chaplians and Libarians? And you're suggesting that this is even remotly fair?

Quote
Something along those lines would make me very very happy.

I'm sure it would, since you're clearly more intrested in taking powerful units than any sort of game ballance why not ask for Eldrad, Plague Marines and the monolith while you're making your wishlists...
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Offline jimbo1701

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Re: Blood angels codex, NOW
« Reply #42 on: January 16, 2009, 02:55:13 PM »
It really doesn't take much to stir up a hornets nest around here does it? For the record I was literally just spewing ideas in a spare moment at work - it doesn't need to be taken that seriously to pass comment on it now does it? I'll clarify a little:

Chaplain: As they play a much more prominent battlefield role in the BA (i.e death company) than they would in a codex Chapter, something the author of C:SM made clear in interview by stating that they are more 'spiritual leaders' than close combat monsters, it would be nice fluff wise to retain that distinction. If not no great shame. BA Chappys get higher BS/I/A while codex marines get a higher Ld. (near pointless as they make units fearless but never mind) The BS could be toned down easily but I'd hate to lose both the higher I and A due to how well it complements the death company. Upping the price to 120 would be a compromise I could live with.

Captains - I apologise for not being clearer - by more in line I was mainly referring to the fact rites of battle has been (except for one special character) eliminated from C:SM. Not 100% on wargear, but other than that the only difference between them is the higher WS. I can't see that losing rites of battle and upping the weapon skill by one (which doesn't make much difference unless it's commander vs commander) is actually going to make much difference. While at a stretch I can see that BA leaders may all be more inspirational than their codex bretheren, I can't believe they're all worse trained in close combat. Thats' what I meant by bringing things in line.   

Librarians - I'd be happy with stats the same as C:SM, but I think only 2 psychic powers is highly limited, compared to the 9 that every codex chapter can use.

And so long as the points costs are high, how does it affect game balance so drastically? We already have an uber-powerful unit that kills other units with ease in the form of the death company, yet we pay 35 points each for them (with JPs) to balance things out. Come on guys, try to be a bit more open-minded before being so critical.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2009, 05:20:31 AM by jimbo1701 »

Offline Raktra (So long, I guess)

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Re: Blood angels codex, NOW
« Reply #43 on: January 16, 2009, 03:00:41 PM »
Why have the "Jump Pack Captain = more assault squads" kerfuffle? We already have Assault Squads as troops, without penalty. I wouldn't want to suddenly have to pay more for that now.

Offline Jerseyboy381

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Re: Blood angels codex, NOW
« Reply #44 on: January 16, 2009, 03:02:06 PM »
OK, I hate to be "that guy" but here we go.  The Angels, same as every other chapter with their own book get stuff Codex marines don't.  In exchange, we get stuff you don't.  That's how it is and how it should be.  If everyone gets everything then there should be just one codex and the BA/SW/BT codexes would all be declared obsolete and unusable for official play.  They are diferent and that's the whole point of them having thier own books. 

Basically what you don't get from the new book (chosen from what's been begged for/debated since October...others not listed left out for lack of begging):

Relic Blades/Storm Shields/wargear variations, new psyker powers, BS 4 Drop Pods, Land Raider upgrades/POTMS changes, new veterans.  There's probably a few more that BA players want, but those seem to be the biggies.

What you DO have that we don't:

Faster Rhinos, assault troop choices, better chaplains (that are also more useful), Rites of Battle, Death Company(FREE, RENDING marines...what more can you ask for?), Assault Troops, WS/BS 4 scouts (sure they're elite, but they're WAY better snipers then ours are), Baal Pred, Furioso Dread, DC Dread...

We have different stuff then you and you have different stuff then us...maybe because we're DIFFERENT armies.  If we were all meant to be the same army, we'd have one big book with everything in it and what would be the point of the diferent codexes?  If every army was supposed to be the same there would just be "Codex, 40K" and everyone would have exactly the same army.  The differences are what make the varied armies all fun.  Sure you're Space Marines, but you don't work like mine and I like it that way.  I thought this argument was put to bed months ago and aside from what may be the fastest banned member I've yet to see most people get that.  There are armies that DESPERATELY need work (Dark Eldar...Necrons...) and they are getting that work.  The Blood angels are in good shape right now, so either play this fluffy and fun army as always or if you want the new stuff so bad, play a standard codex army.  Don't expect to get both because then there'd be no point to have your special book at all.
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Offline jimbo1701

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Re: Blood angels codex, NOW
« Reply #45 on: January 16, 2009, 04:05:07 PM »
Why have the "Jump Pack Captain = more assault squads" kerfuffle? We already have Assault Squads as troops, without penalty. I wouldn't want to suddenly have to pay more for that now.

I thought it might be a nice rule so that scouts/tacs could be taken as the standard troops same as with codex marines and then if you wanted RAS as troops you had to take a JP captain, similar to the bike rule in C:SM. Sorry, mis-worded it slightly, didn't mean that you could take both.

I'm actually very happy with the Codex as it is now and if GW produced a proper BA codex that resembled this one more or less I'd be happy with that. I could live without redeemers/ironclads as they are specialist patterns in the same way that furiosos/Baals are. I'd prefer to see captains and scouts the same stats as codex marines too - after allour scouts are novices unlike say the SW wolf scouts.

The only thing I (and probably many other BA/DA players) don't like are the equipment/rule discrepencies between the armies, simply as it makes little sense fluff-wise or common-sense wise why these thigs shouldbe different for BAs than other codex armies. Examples:

Rules: Rites of battle/scout WS and BS/heroic intervention/blessing of the omnissiah/power of the machine spirit/lack of psychic powers

Equipment: storm shields/relic blades/drop pods/cyclone missile launchers

As mentioned, if a BA codex were released tomorrow that was pretty much the same as we have now (i.e. no ironclads/MotF/Chapter master/redeemer/scout bikes/LS storms/sternguard/LotD/Thunderfires etc....) with these other non-sensical discrepencies fixed, I would be more than pleased. My own personal wish list is more based on the models I have from defecting to codex marines I guess - but hey, scout bikers and redeemers are cool. Anyway, there are ways of doing it to please both camps. 

Offline Raktra (So long, I guess)

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Re: Blood angels codex, NOW
« Reply #46 on: January 16, 2009, 04:13:26 PM »
It would be a bit stupid for them to have a Chapter master as an option, seeing as it's just one chapter. Dante fulfils this greatly.

LOTD don't really fit with Blood Angels. Neither do Sternguard really.

The Redeemer I agree on, it's essentially a fat Baal Predator.

Thunderfires are too static.

Offline jimbo1701

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Re: Blood angels codex, NOW
« Reply #47 on: January 16, 2009, 05:04:26 PM »
Agree totally, there's no need to add any of these units per se as BAs already have enough awesome unique units. If anyone wanted to play successor chapters then they may want a chapter master, but I should think a 'counts as' Dante would be as good as. (and I'd personally rather have a sanguinary priest as another HQ instead) Fluff wise, a redeemer would fit with the BA ethic and LotD are supposed to appear whereever they are needed, despite which chapter is in need, but these are things best left to the regular codex.

Slightly off topic, but am I the only one who thinks the Iron hands get a raw deal? The master of the forge is basically an iron hands character with an Iron hands fluffy rule, (dreads as HS) but never gets acknowlegded as such. Even the later founding Crimson fists get a special character in the form of one of the only two special character Chapter Masters. In fact, even in the BRB the Iron hands are the only first founding not mentioned. And we think Blood angels have it hard ;)

Offline Raktra (So long, I guess)

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Re: Blood angels codex, NOW
« Reply #48 on: January 16, 2009, 05:24:45 PM »
Crimson Fists used to be poster boys, and IIRC, Pedro Kantor was 40k's first named character.

Offline jimbo1701

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Re: Blood angels codex, NOW
« Reply #49 on: January 16, 2009, 06:25:20 PM »
Crimson Fists used to be poster boys

Sigh, as did Blood Angels back in the day before those pesky smurfs became GWs golden boys :(

Offline YuenglingDragon

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Re: Blood angels codex, NOW
« Reply #50 on: January 16, 2009, 07:41:17 PM »
Sigh, as did Blood Angels back in the day before those pesky smurfs became GWs golden boys :(
Hardly.  BA got a combo codex with DA in 2nd.  Ultra's have always been the template Chapter.
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Offline jimbo1701

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Re: Blood angels codex, NOW
« Reply #51 on: January 16, 2009, 08:06:10 PM »
Before that even. Both in Epic and 40k BAs were the principle Eavy metal army

Offline Lucky_Jackal

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Re: Blood angels codex, NOW
« Reply #52 on: January 16, 2009, 10:25:59 PM »
I was just looking threw the blood angles codex. I got to say, I can't think of any other codex that can say "hey! We have jump infantry for troops!"

That has to count for something.

Not to mention Death Company is awsome. There Genestealers wannabes in power armour! (Genestealers still beat them with a higher WS and I. But still, being a MEQ counts for something!) AND then can take jump packs.

A army of Assault mariens with melta equiped attack bikes for tank busting. Sounds like it could be interesting.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2009, 10:31:04 PM by Lucky_Jackal »

Offline Andro Ist Keine Schwedischen

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Re: Blood angels codex, NOW
« Reply #53 on: January 17, 2009, 12:26:28 AM »
Going to give my ideas on how I think the Blood Angels should be.

------------------------------

As Codex: Space Marines, with the following changes:

All models gain Furious Charge and lose Combat Tactics.

Death Company becomes a 'proper' unit, 0-1 choice (i.e. you don't have to take any at all) based off the Vanguard Squad, at +10pts each.  Gain WS5, Fearless, Feel No Pain, Counter Attack and Rage (no Rending), with all weapon options allowed as normal.  Adding a Chaplain to the unit removes Rage while he's alive, but he may not leave the unit once he's joined it.  The Chaplain becomes Fearless and gains Counter Attack while part of the unit, but does not get Feel No Pain.

Tactical Squads become 1+, so you have to take at least one unit of them. 

Assault Squads become Troops, and cost +2pts each (due to them becoming Scoring Units, and thus much more useful).

Scout Squads become Elites.

No access to Sternguard.

------------------------

Only really complicated change is to the Death Company, making it more customisable and optional to Blood Angel players.  Also makes them damned expensive, but still able to rip anything to pieces (possibly more able since they can take Power Fists again).  And I never liked them having Rending.

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Offline Qui-Gon Jinn

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Re: Blood angels codex, NOW
« Reply #54 on: January 17, 2009, 12:35:51 AM »
*whisper*The Chaplain is already fearless....

But it looks interesting, to say the least Andromidius.

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Offline HORDE

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Re: Blood angels codex, NOW
« Reply #55 on: January 17, 2009, 05:17:58 AM »
Going to give my ideas on how I think the Blood Angels should be.

------------------------------

As Codex: Space Marines, with the following changes:

All models gain Furious Charge and lose Combat Tactics.

does this mean BA won't get assault squads as troops? because furious charge on your ccw wielding troops choices is a bit brutal
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Offline Andro Ist Keine Schwedischen

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Re: Blood angels codex, NOW
« Reply #56 on: January 17, 2009, 08:11:47 AM »
*whisper*The Chaplain is already fearless....

I always forget that.  I was also going to add Preferred Enemy to the Death Company, but thought it was overpowered...forge tting again that Chaplains confer this as well.  Opps.

But I guess that works out then, and really encourages (but doesn't force) Blood Angels players to put a Chaplain in with their Death Company.  Or to ever have to take either of them.

I was considering altering their Scouts a bit as well, but I thought it might be a bit naff taking away Furious Charge from them.

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Offline Moonsinger

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Re: Blood angels codex, NOW
« Reply #57 on: January 17, 2009, 08:31:24 AM »

*says something about Dark Eldar codex+whine noises*

But I can agree, the PDF version is pretty crappy, cost so bloody much and... what, where they thinking?
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Offline Lucky_Jackal

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Re: Blood angels codex, NOW
« Reply #58 on: January 17, 2009, 10:31:23 AM »
I think the death company are alright as they are. I might give them preferred enemy for the pure reason of fluff. But even then, Lemartes gives them Re-Rolls.

All death company are, are a bunch of crazy loyalist mariens. There not Chaos Blessed, There not generically engineered xeno ninjas. Also taking Lemartes or a chaplin with them makes them fearless (and counters the anoying rage rule). They look alright to me on paper.

Also there entry is worded "A blood angles unit MAY take one unit of Death Company". I take that as meaning, your not forced to have to take them. =/
« Last Edit: January 17, 2009, 10:39:53 AM by Lucky_Jackal »

Offline HORDE

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Re: Blood angels codex, NOW
« Reply #59 on: January 17, 2009, 01:26:34 PM »
Also there entry is worded "A blood angles unit MAY take one unit of Death Company". I take that as meaning, your not forced to have to take them. =/

i think people's problem is that you are paying the price of death company soldiers regardless of whether you use them or not.
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