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EldarOnline => Eldar => Topic started by: Blazinghand on December 1, 2018, 10:08:05 PM
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Looks like GW has put the new Eldar Battleforce up for sale! Craftworlds Asuryani Bladehost | Games Workshop Webstore (https://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Craftworlds-Asuryani-Bladehost-2018)
For $170 USD you get a Wraithknight, a Farseer, 10 Guardians, 5 Dire Avengers, 3 Windriders, and a Vyper. Bought individually, these minis would run you about $270, so it's a great deal. Sadly, I already own most of these, but I have been thinking of buying a Wraithknight, and this battleforce is only $55 more than a Wraithknight, heh. I may just spring for it.
Anyone else check this box out? What do you think of it?
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Value for money it may be, in relative terms at least, but I'm not convinced about the content from an army composition perspective. Dire Avengers, especially a small unit like that, don't strike me as being overly useful, while the three Jetbikes and a Vyper combination has been tried before in boxed sets and has received mixed reviews. Having two squads of Guardians would have been a better way to establish a core Eldar army and then build on that, in my opinion.
The Wraithknight as both a model and a concept still does not resonate with me. This battleforce feels a bit like a way to try to persuade new Eldar players to include one in their armies. I don't like this approach. Experience has taught me that it's far better to start with the core units/models before branching out into the more exotic ones later.
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It's a fantastic value box. It's pretty much you're buying the wraithknight and getting everything else for free.
This, combined with wake the dead, and/or the getting started box, is a very inexpensive way to start a large eldar collection.
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They need to go back to the 10-man boxes of Avengers. Specially since the 5-man box is the same freaking price as the 10-man box was...
Irisado - on the Knight. I agree in your point of it beeing a poor options for the battleforce box. However I disagree with your opinion on it's use. While a Wraith Knight can easily dispatch an Imperial Knight I compare the Eldar Knight more to a Landraider in terms of it's play on the table top. It's less durable and lesser armaments compared to the Imperial options.
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I must say this box is very poorly composed, I think it's more of a "these models don't sell as much", let's throw them all into a box with a discount.
The reason they don't sell are obvious, they are bad options (competitively & narratively) or you get very little bang for your buck.
Wraithknight was under-costed, but is now over-costed, so "everyone" that wanted one bought them when they were still good.
Vypers has been bad since the times when they could block access ports for passagers.
Windriders are just like the wraithknight, was good, but is now not only over-costed, they are no longer troops, in addition you get very few points worth for your money.
Dire Avengers are ok but not really kicking it and just like the windriders very little bang for the buck.
Farseer, where is his ride, no skyrunner nor wave serpent, a farseer/warlock on bike would have been a better pick.
Guardians, is the only thing fine in this box IMHO.
I can understand why they wouldn't want any metal or rubber models in the box, but having a Wave Serpent, a unit of 5 wraithguard/blade and a bike-psyker rather than the Knight, Vyper & Seer, wouldn't be too much to ask, if you ask me.
I would say rangers over windriders too, but rangers are still metal afaik.
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Rangers are resin. I don't think they sell any metal models except when they do the limited runs of discontinued models that were never poured in resin before they were removed.
I disagree on the Windriders. They're still quite strong. Just not an auto-take unit.
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I must say this box is very poorly composed, I think it's more of a "these models don't sell as much", let's throw them all into a box with a discount.
The reason they don't sell are obvious, they are bad options (competitively & narratively) or you get very little bang for your buck.
Wraithknight was under-costed, but is now over-costed, so "everyone" that wanted one bought them when they were still good.
Vypers has been bad since the times when they could block access ports for passagers.
Windriders are just like the wraithknight, was good, but is now not only over-costed, they are no longer troops, in addition you get very few points worth for your money.
Dire Avengers are ok but not really kicking it and just like the windriders very little bang for the buck.
Farseer, where is his ride, no skyrunner nor wave serpent, a farseer/warlock on bike would have been a better pick.
Guardians, is the only thing fine in this box IMHO.
I can understand why they wouldn't want any metal or rubber models in the box, but having a Wave Serpent, a unit of 5 wraithguard/blade and a bike-psyker rather than the Knight, Vyper & Seer, wouldn't be too much to ask, if you ask me.
I would say rangers over windriders too, but rangers are still metal afaik.
Not everyone buys models to win tournaments.
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These are some good points. If it were 10 Dire Avengers this box would be a lot nicer. I'd be able to run a nice big squad of them, or run 2 small squads.
I know the Wraithknight isn't that great right now, and I do like the Wraithlord better as a model and lore-wise, but I am interested in a bigger painting project which is why I am considering the wraithknight.
If I were going to think about an ideal battleforce, probably something like 10 guardians, 10 dire avengers, a Falcon or War Walker or something else heavy, and a Farseer would be nice for getting people into the game. I do feel like the Wraith units have been a bit overemphasized in recent eldar collections. The Start Collecting and the Craftworlds Army boxes both include 5 Wraithguard and a Wraithlord, which is good if you're making an Iyanden army or like Wraith units (as I do), but could be non-ideal for a new player.
I guess I have some time to think about this one. Being able to display one of each of the wraith units would be pretty cool, but it's also a fair chunk of change for this box.
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Irisado - on the Knight. I agree in your point of it beeing a poor options for the battleforce box. However I disagree with your opinion on it's use. While a Wraith Knight can easily dispatch an Imperial Knight I compare the Eldar Knight more to a Landraider in terms of it's play on the table top. It's less durable and lesser armaments compared to the Imperial options.
My views are not related to its capabilities, rather I'm not a fan of the concept. For me, Wraith constructs have always been Wraithlords and Wraithguard. The Wraithknight was an unnecessary add-on in terms of the lore and units.
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@Killersquid, I would like to divide the fan base into 3 categories, those that play competitively (tournament or not), those that play for the fluffy narrative and those who prefer the modelling and painting.
For the competitive & Narrative/Fluffy players this box is ill conceived, for modelling and painting I can't really tell, because does it really matter what models they are as long as there a bits to assemble and colors to paint with?
Maybe I should explain a bit more why it's not fluffy/narratively appealing:
This box represents no craftworld nor any other gathering that I know of. It's not even good as a starting box, since you can't have a coherent army with it.
It has 1HQ, 2 troops, 2 fast & 1 heavy, they could at least have included 1 elite choice.
Preferrably wraithguards, since they have been occupying a troops slot, just like the windriders.
The Vyper really has no place in this box.
A Falcon or a Wave serpent would be nice, Falcon actually checks of 2 boxes being both a heavy and a transport, but learning the mechanics of dedicated transports is about just as important.
The knight also does not really fit into such a small force as you get from the box IMO. I meant the knight costs more points than all the other units do together.
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Battleforces are not really balanced armies, more often than not, its away to move stuff that is not selling very well along with Troops choices and standard HQ. So WK, vypers and windriders are all just ok options right now.
Its a nice box if you are just starting to collect an Eldar force, I'm not sure that you would have that much fun fielding that as an army, unless it was against another battleforce box like Necrons.
For $170 USD you get a Wraithknight, a Farseer, 10 Guardians, 5 Dire Avengers, 3 Windriders, and a Vyper. Bought individually, these minis would run you about $270, so it's a great deal. Sadly, I already own most of these, but I have been thinking of buying a Wraithknight, and this battleforce is only $55 more than a Wraithknight, heh. I may just spring for it.
I wouldn't mind another wraithknight as well, so I was kind of hoping it would work out to simply be a little extra on top of a WK price, like it is for you guys in the states. Down here, I can buy two WK's and still have money left over vs the battleforce :(
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I took a look at the prices you have in Australian currency vs what I have in Canada, and the battleforce is a a bunch more expensive, but your wraithknights are a bit cheaper! kinda funny.
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Irisado....I disagree concerning the Wraithknight. If you play competitive but very large games as I do, the Wraithknight comes into its own, particularly when your opponents take GK Knights and various Imperial versions...
Also, many of our units (including the Wraithknight), are being re-costed in the Chapter Approved book that'll be released soon. If you go to Faeit212, you might be able to make out some of the costs....the pictures are not the best mind you. Any discussion of the merits of these sets should take this into consideration.
Cheers, Reborn. :)
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I've just had a look myself. Oh boy. Quite a bit of cost shifting. Quite a few things are comparatively point efficient enough to bring back to the table now.
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Irisado....I disagree concerning the Wraithknight. If you play competitive but very large games as I do, the Wraithknight comes into its own, particularly when your opponents take GK Knights and various Imperial versions...
It's not about that, for me, rather it's about what I referred to above:
My views are not related to its capabilities, rather I'm not a fan of the concept. For me, Wraith constructs have always been Wraithlords and Wraithguard. The Wraithknight was an unnecessary add-on in terms of the lore and units.
If you're happy with the concept and the way in which it works though, fair enough. Diversity is one of the elements that makes discussion on forums about the hobby interesting.
As for any possible changes, let's wait until the actual book is released and avoid discussing material being posted in violation of copyright rules elsewhere.
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I've just had a look myself. Oh boy. Quite a bit of cost shifting. Quite a few things are comparatively point efficient enough to bring back to the table now.
Right?! Huge value now. I think we can look at the wraithknight in a whole new light. I hope to see these on tables again, as they are georgous models.
This bundle box just got a lot better.
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Irisado, hi! :)
I am happy with the concept, having been used to playing with Eldar Knights since the early days of EPIC. I think the Wraithknight is a gorgeous model and GW taking off something like 90pts is a good thing indeed. I only wish they would release more variants, as they have for the Imperial ones....Bright Stallions would be awesome.
As I mentioned, my knights have always seen use, they work very well particularly using the Iyanden abilities. In large games, I now look forward to outnumbering my Imperial opponents. :)
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Epic is where I believe all these super heavies, knights, and titans should have stayed. This is where I first encountered them and this is where I still enjoy using them. The scale-up to 40K of such units simply does not work very well.
I maintain that this starter box doesn't fulfil the criteria of being a starter box because all it is doing is providing bits and pieces of units, apart from the Guardians. As a result, it makes for a decent boxed set to add to an existing army to help to increase the size of some existing ones or to add units to an army designed along the lines of the multiple small units principle.
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Superheavies work well in 40k, they are fantastic models and make great centre peices for an army. I'm a fan. You won't see titans in games of 40k too often, as they are too expensive to run, but Knights and wraith Knights are very cool.
For the box, it's a fantastic value, for a collection of great models. For the money saved, it's great for new players to expand on, or existing players to add to their armies.
I'm a huge fan of these, they are never a CAD in a box, but they often contain an expensive kit, and a bunch of other kits for a heavily reduced price.
I talked to my GW manager last night, and he said this box, and the death guard one, were his best selling battleforces.
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Irisado, I dunno. I think GW have actually done a decent job of introducing the super-heavies to the game....admittedly, it's been hit and miss at times...especially with the Wraithknight. But relative balance is on the way....GW's trouble is that they always seem to overshoot, first one way and then the other...
Killersquid, I agree totally. I'm hoping that FW do some balancing of points too so that my Revenant can appear in battles again. :)
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Killersquid, I agree totally. I'm hoping that FW do some balancing of points too so that my Revenant can appear in battles again. :)
I'm not sure if there was a points for it in 2017 Chapter Approved, but in the 2018 Chapter Approved it's base cost is 800pts more than it's Imperial Armour Index cost, So you wont be fitting into a 2000pt game, unless all it's weapons and wargear are free lol. I think that's fair though.
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Epic is where I believe all these super heavies, knights, and titans should have stayed. This is where I first encountered them and this is where I still enjoy using them. The scale-up to 40K of such units simply does not work very well.
Well depends, an entire army of knights is yeah not really good for anything other than a campaign setting. A single wraithknight sized thing does seem to be ok at 2k points, but doesn't seem to make sense for 1.5K engagements, considering how rare these things are meant to be etc. That said Lore and game play haven't really lined up very well for a long time.
Actually Titans only makes sense in Apoc.
Super-heavy tanks are in a bit of a strange spot, too, something like a Lynx is physically too big for small engagements, even in a 2k point game, it takes up too much real-estate with the amount of things on the board these days.