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Offline Ibushi

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Re: GT list to think on
« Reply #20 on: August 20, 2015, 04:43:49 PM »
That's true.

Previously I would use my Autarch as a free safety on bike and throw him away after T2, keeping my Farseer back behind meatshields, works like a charm.

Speaking of Exarchs, my guess for your solution to the above would be the 2x3x7 Aspect Host idea -- tell me I'm wrong!
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Offline DCannon ForLife

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Re: GT list to think on
« Reply #21 on: August 20, 2015, 11:14:53 PM »
Yeah I have been harping at the duplicate formation ruling's inadequacies. 42 Warp Spiders is as dirty as anything. I won't be fielding that myself, mostly because I only own 18 spiders and three 'Exarchs'.

Played a 1500 game tonight with a Shard-wielding Autarch with wings and a Banshee Mask; he's quite the character assassin, given the opportunity. Played without spiders or a knight, still eked out a 17-13 win.

Offline Ibushi

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Re: GT list to think on
« Reply #22 on: August 24, 2015, 02:08:56 PM »
Hey Mr. D, how did your character-assassin autarch build go? At 1500 I could see that, at 1850 I would not put my autarch beyond 100 points because he will ganked 110% of the time, even by Tau :(

Just got back from TSHFT, had a pretty solid showing, taking 3rd place, and thoroughly enjoyed myself. Tanaka the Cannibal took his first loss, a crushing defeat to yellow-painted Ultramarines toting grav cannons and mucho psychic powers.

The list I took was pretty much the same as before, but switching out the laser for a hawk as suggested:

Farseer – jetbike, spirit stone

D-guard
Wave Serpent – holo-fields

Guardians
3x3 Scatbikes
23 Jetbikes

6 Hawks

Falcon – bright lance

Wraithknight – glaive & shield

Aspect Host:
8 Spiders
5 Dragons
4 Reapers

Game 1 (ITC Mission 1: Emperor’s Will, Dawn of War) against Jedi’s Thundercav + Skyhammer

Sanguinary Priest in a unit of Thundercav
Rune Priest in a unit of Devastators rocking melta
Couple of small squads in pods, 2x servitors, 10x fenrisian dogs
2x sicaran tanks
1x whirlwind with legacy ()Stats and rules removed.

This is the third consecutive thundercav+skyhammer army the Eldar have come up against, my prediction is it will end badly for the puppies. Even with the speed of the space dogs, the army just comes in too piecemeal relative to the Eldar speed and firepower. A lot will depend on first turn and who can put out the most damage immediately -- the sicarans could cripple both tanks, the whirlwind could wipe the wraithguard, and the skyhammer could kill all the scatbikes easily.

Imperials do win first turn, so Eldar bunch up behind a big hill on the far right, with jetbikes and guardians bubbling out to the left of it, and the wraithguard serpent on the right of it. Both skimmers manage to be out of LOS and/or range of the sicarans for T1. Swooping Hawks hang out way over on the far left flank as a distraction and to get some objectives possibly.   

Skyhammer + tactical pods come raining down, taking out a unit of jetbikes, another jetbike rider, and a fire dragon, while killing all the guardians, taking down the wave serpent, and annihilating the swooping hawks. A bloody turn! But the whirlwind was unable to put the hurt on the wraithguard after a slightly-too-far scatter, so the Space Wolf warlord is now hanging out in the breeze at point blank range.

Eldar strike back and blow the autocannon off one sicaran and immobilize it, wipe out both units of devastators, including attached Rune Priest warlord (d-scythe to the face!), and put the hurt on some assault marines. Wraithknight jumps forwards on top of a huge hill and chooses not to charge, perching over the battlefield with his troll face on.

Imperials shoot at some jetbikes and move the thundercav up, having lost the entire skyhammer formation plus a sicaran (effectively).

Eldar clear out all remaining infantry with ranged shooting, and the wraithknight donkey punches the other sicaran, on the edge of the opponent’s DZ to the right. Thundercav are now in a nice position to either make a long charge into some jetbikes in front of the Eldar warlord, or to wipe out some fire dragons, or to move laterally down to the board (almost backwards) to snag the wraithknight.

Forced to choose between the Eldar ground forces and the Wraithknight, Thundercav choose wraithknight, and end up getting completely stomped out in one turn for their efforts (3 stomps, 2 sixes). The surviving Sanguinary priest hoofs it.

Scatbikes take out the fenrisian puppies; aspect warriors take out all the drop pods; wraithknight aces the whirlwind (which had not been super effective due to low rolling for templates).

Imperials refuse to give up, and the remaining two servitors hold their ground in a ruin.

Eldar turbo-boost towards the servitors while Dark Reapers destroy the second Sicaran (which they immobilized and weapon destroyed in T1) .

Servitors hold their ground.

Farseer and Warp Spiders charge in with blades bared, the Exarch killing one servitor, and the Farseer plunging his Naginata between the mechanical Mon-Keigh’s eyes, vanquishing the last Imperial servants from the table.

Eldar Victory!


Game 2 (ITC Mission 2, Vanguard Strike) against Todd’s Hive Fleet Kwodd

3x Flyrant
Tervigon
30 Gaunts
2x Malanthrope
2x Mucolid
Scythed Hierodule

Pairings got a bit mixed up this round, and the Eldar were originally going to face another Eldar player with suncannon knight and the cloudstrike formation, but it was not to be, as Hive Fleet Kwodd came hurtling into Croneworld space at the last minute.

Eldar win turn 1 and set up centrally along the DZ line for the most part, Wraithknight staring at the hierodule and pawing the ground. Nids fail to seize, and with the Farseer rolling Perfect Timing, Dark Reapers take out the Warlord Flyrant immediately, while massed shooting takes out another and puts some random wounds through elsewhere despite 2+ cover. A rough matchup with a really rough first turn for the Nids.

Nids come bounding forth, the surviving Flyrant heading for the Farseer attached to Reapers to try and get some Warlord Slaying action. Shriek is Denied, while below-average wounds and above-average saves only kills one reaper. On the right flank, the Hierodule puts a Hellstorm template all over the Warp Spiders, who manage to roll boxcars for Flickerjump and get the hell out of there.

Wraithknight comes up to the plate and takes out the Hierodule with his giant katana before it can strike back rules and stats removed). Back on the Eldar side, close shooting (spiders, guardians, Wave Serpent, dragons, then finally the Reapers) take out the Flyrant. Scatbikes pop a malanthrope through the 2+ cover back in the nid DZ, and hawks take out a few gants with large blast plus lasers, but nothing spectacular.

Nids try to dog-pile the Wraithknight with gants, but he swings big and manages a lot of stomps too, killing something like 17 in one turn. Tervigon charges forth and destroys the D-guard serpent, but then gets D’d right back. Mucolids come in, but they get popped straight away too by Dragons and D-scythes targeting the Tervigon.

Eldar Farseer jets up and charges the lone surviving Malanthrope, getting two wounds with his witchblade – the Nid player calls it.

Eldar Victory!


Game 3 (ITC Mission 3: Relic, Hammer and Anvil) against AbusePuppy and his Equine Alliance

AbusePuppy is the reigning TSHFT champ from back in February, where he won with the Firebase Cadre + 4x DAVU Serpent Eldar + summoning Mantleseer, and he is back for some more! His new list takes advantage of some of the same tricks, along with some new ones, namely Ravenwing:

Primary – Ravenwing Strikeforce
Librarian on bike
5x3 Black Knights
 
2nd – Eldar CAD
Farseer on bike
5x3 Scatbikes

3rd – Firebase Cadre
Riptide
2x3 Broadsides with all the missiles

Fortunately this mission plays into the Eldar's hands quite well, with hammer and anvil allowing enough range to avoid the Firebase Cadre, while hopefully the wraithknight and wraithguard are tough and punchy enough to clear out the Relic.

Warlord traits Eldar is hoping for Conqueror of Cities or Night Attacker, but gets Ambush and re-rolls to -1 enemy reserves. Probably should have stuck with Ambush for denying the Ravenwing scout move, which I forgot about.

Psychic powers, the Imperial alliance takes a medley of shriek, guide, prescience kind of thing. Eldar manage to get Fortune, which is huge.

Eldar win first turn and deploy aggressively on DZ line facing down the Relic, ready to put up Fortune and bum rush the Relic with wraith units. Tau set up right at 30-36” away from the Eldar, while riptide and scatbikes hide behind large BLOS hills fairly far back, and the Ravenwing start on the DZ line then Scout forwards 12”.

The Equine Dream-Team manage to seize on a 5 (curse you Wraithknight, you better make it worth it!), and the Ravenwing promptly turbo-boost right into the Eldar DZ (a good 6” in), while the Firebase manages to take out the D-guard serpent and kill a dragon and a spider. Scatbikes are mostly out of range, although one unit does fail a DT test, then fails leadership and falls back.

Well that was a slap in the face! Also AP did a clever thing and split the Ravenwing down each flank – 4 squads of bikes on the Eldar right flank, largely behind BLOS cover, and the warlord librarian + squad on the left flank behind cover too. Which one to focus on? After thinking for a good long while, the Eldar send everything into the right flank – Wraithknight jumps up and aces a squad of 3 in combat. Dark Reapers drop down and ace a squad of three by denying their jink save and carefully avoiding intervening models. Unfortunately the third biker ended up being out of LOS, so their wounds didn’t carry over and only 2 died. Then the scatbikes put another wound through on one squad, and the warp spiders + scatbikes clean up an entire squad between them I believer. In the end, only three bikers between two squads survived, after the 3+ re-rolling jink saves. Phew. Meanwhile in the middle, the Falcon moved out of range of the broadsides and forced one squad to ground with pulse laser fire (passed the cover save). A respectable counter-attack from the Eldar so far, but far from being out of the woods. 

Also at the beginning of the turn, swooping hawks on the left flank took a pinning test due to the Imperial warlord trait (Strategic – three units take pinning check) and failed, so just stood their while the enemy warlord almost drove into them, haha. This kind of makes up for AbusePuppy's scatbike unit falling back I suppose.

Alliance turn 2 – the warlord and unit take out the swooping hawks handily, and hide out of LOS, but back in the Alliance DZ the scatbike unit fails their morale again and run off the table. Firebase is mostly out of range and decides to move up, snap-firing into the Wraithknight to no effect – the Fortuned Wraithknight was hoping to be shot at really, getting his 3+ re-rollable plus FnP all day. The surviving two black knights on the right flank manage a sneaky charge into the Farseer plus jetbike retinue, but lose one to the ancient alien’s flickering witchblade almost immediately, then kill one jetbike in return. The other surviving black knight moves backwards and turbo-boosts onto the Relic to try and start shuttling it backwards.

Eldar Turn 2 sees the Fortuned Wraithknight bound toward mid-board, then manage a 9” charge into the last black knight, trouncing him and standing on the Relic. Back in the middle, guardians and fire dragons move up to get shots around a BLOS hill into the Imperial warlord, sneaking a wound into the Librarian and taking out a biker. Dark Reapers then open up, denying Jink saves, but with Look Out Sir the Librarian can pass off the four low AP hits to his retinue out of LOS, with their re-rollable cover saves. Unfortunately for AP, he fails one Look Out Sir and takes a reaper launcher missile up his warlord, slaying him. Again in mid-field, the Falcon puts some low AP shots downfield but the broadsides pass their saves after going to ground again. Back on the right flank, another jetbike squad charges into the lone black knight engaged with the warlord, and manage to bring him down with mean glares and rude names somehow, leaving the Farseer free.

Imperials are starting to look a bit thin on the ground, with only a two black knights alive at this point, tucked behind cover on the left flank in the shadow of their Warlord’s bones. The Firebase and scatbikes gather with the Riptide to finally do some serious damage to the Wraithknight and his wraithguard brothers behind him – a wound is caused here or there, but nothing decisive.
 
Eldar Turn 3 and Fortune goes up on the Wraithknight again, but the big monster fails his charge into the Riptide and just sits tight for a turn. In the Eldar DZ, the dragons and guardians gang up on the last two black knights, while everyone else starts putting shots downfield into the scatbikes and broadsides. One squad of scatbikes is taken out, and the Farseer plus scatbike squad is forced to jink due to pulse laser fire.

Turn 4 AP brings his models upfield somewhat, putting a lot of pressure on the right flank – a squad of jetbikes turbo-boosts, the Riptide jumps forwards, and the black knights shoot and charge the guardians, running them down after killing a couple. Shooting from the scatbikes and Riptide manages to wipe out the wraithguard after 5/5 failed saves, clearing a gap in midfield.

Hurting from those two losses, the Eldar kick into overdrive – dragons, Falcon, and scatbikes pour shots into the black knights, managing to bring down one. That 3+ re-rollable jink is really tough! Warp Spiders make a solid warp jump across the table to spin monofilament webs through the Riptide, bringing it down. Reapers overwhelm the Farseer and squad with S8 jink-ignoring shooting supported by scatter lasers, slaying the psyker and retinue. Another scatbike squad takes out its enemy counterpart, shooting laterally across the Eldar DZ into the turbo-boosting squad of three. The Wraithknight then steps up his game and clears out a squad of broadsides in one go, eyeing up the second mere inches away.

At this point the round is very short on time and the question is whether to call the game here, which was a bit of a shock to me, as in this case AP would actually win due to the wraithknight charging off the relic, and the warp spiders being out of position after killing the Riptide. Maelstrom was in his favour at this point, he had linebreaker most likely, while the Wraithknight had also vacated King of the Hill. But I was convinced  that we could finish two full game turns in 10 minutes, given how few models of significance we had left, so we played on and French Overlord timed us at 5 min each.

Turn 5 Equine alliance – black knight shoots and charges dragons I believe, killing some. Scatbikes move up to claim relic, while broadsides clear out a squad of croneworld scatbikes.

Eldar Turn 5, the last turn – Wraithknight destroys the surviving firebase broadsides, the warp spiders horribly gank the last scatbike unit, and the Farseer jets over his minions to charge the last Black Knight, putting through 2 wounds with his witchblade, and for a third time in a row slaying the last enemy model on the table.   

Eldar Victory!

This game was tactical and challenging, and AbusePuppy’s list can put out the serious hurt. Playing on Hammer and Anvil really helped the more squishy but very mobile Croneworld forces by being able to outrange the scatbikes and firebase cadre for most of the game, while rolling the Fortune psychic power pretty much won the game by making the wraithknight unkillable.

On to Day 2 and Game 4 as one of a couple of 4-0 players so far, and one of 2 with 33/33 points!

Edited for stats and rules.  Please see forum rule 1 for details - Iris.
« Last Edit: August 25, 2015, 07:45:35 AM by Irisado »
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Offline DCannon ForLife

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Re: GT list to think on
« Reply #23 on: August 24, 2015, 03:36:53 PM »
Hey Mr. D, how did your character-assassin autarch build go? At 1500 I could see that, at 1850 I would not put my autarch beyond 100 points because he will ganked 110% of the time, even by Tau :(

Congratulations on a fine performance at TSHIFT! I'm appreciating how powerful Dark Reapers can be (in the era of Ravenwing and Scatbikes, etc.).

As for my Autarch: Swooping Hawk Wings, Banshee Mask <------- PURE WIN!, Fusion Gun (which I will likely replace with a Fusion Pistol) and Shard of Anaris. Note that, in this configuration, he does NOT gain an extra attack for two CC weapons because he has to trade his pistol for the Shard and does not come stock with a CC weapon.... Hence buying him a Fusion Pistol. A different option is to first buy him a Scorpion Chainsword and then trade THAT in for the Shard. /shrug If he's going after characters, not sure he needs the Fusion Pistol. Going the Scorpion Chainsword route keeps him a few points cheaper.

He just hung back for two turns until a unit of marines got too close: Killed the Sergeant and two more marines before the fool could even finish accepting the challenge. Danced around with the remaining two for a round of combat before cutting them down (being extra strong helps get those wounds to stick), setting his eyes on Azrael. By the end of the turn, every marine in his unit had been stripped away, leaving Azrael no where to hide (another cowardly 'Lion'). He staved off the Rending wound with his Invulnerable save, but then came up short with his 2+ armor versus a pair of Instant Death wounds....

Good times!

Looking forward to the rest of your reports.

Cheers!

Offline Ibushi

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Re: GT list to think on
« Reply #24 on: August 24, 2015, 07:40:36 PM »
That does sound like fun -- plus I have an Autarch converted out of the old, old Avatar model with arms added, doing a classic samurai duel pose. Add some "wings" or something and he'd be such a boss character assassin, I like it.

For some reason it didn't click in my head that ALL of the attacks are ID, I just of it as just the rending ones. But if he charges into a WK or something like that you can't challenge unless there is a character, right?

OK on to Day 2 and Game 5!

Game 5? Yes, I said Game 5, because the only game you will care about at the end of this series is Game 4, so I'm giving you Game 5 first.

ITC Mission 5 - 4 objectives, Vanguard Strike

Playing against Michael and his Farsight Enclave Tau!

Commander with XV84 markerlight suit, 2x plasma, EWO, warscaper drone (i believe)
Riptide - Ion, fusion, earth caste array
2x 3 Crisis with 2x plasma, EWO
1x 3 Crisis with 2x fusion, EWO
3x 2 Tetra
Aegis line with Comms relay

Firebase Cadre
Riptide - Ion, plasma, EWO
XV88 - 2x HYMP, EWO; 1x Rail Rifle, target lock
XV88 - 3x HYMP, plasma, EWO

For Warlord trait the Eldar become Conquerors of Cities, with some healthy ruins abounding on the board. Nothing of note in terms of psychic powers. Tau roll Master of Ambush for some ninja shenanigans.

Eldar win first turn and squeeze into a ruin centre-board, with the WK, warp spiders, hawks along the DZ line at centre table, and a squad of jetbikes on each far flank to prevent any infiltrators behind BLOS hills.

Tau deploy the Firebase Cadre behind the Aegis line, with one unit of riptides about 8" in the air on top of a ruin. Both Riptides hang out behind said ruin, along with a unit of tetras.

Eldar retain the initiative this game (finally!) and charge forwards, spreading out. Wraithguard wave serpent turbo-boosts into a ruin just inches away from a unit of broadsides, while both jetbike squads turbo boost within a couple of inches of the riptides to put obsec units on both objectives there. Everything else pours shots into the broadsides, bringing one down, then into the tetras, doing a glance after some really nice jink saves.

Tau try to hit back, doing a wound to the wraithknight and destroying both small jetbike squads, denying the Eldar any maelstrom objectives -- 0-2 at this point then. But one riptide takes a wound from Nova overheat.

Eldar Turn 2 is crucial for crippling the Tau homebase before reserves deep strike in. The Wraithknight jumps up and prepares to pound the squad of broadsides on top of the ruin (8-9" charge), while the D-guard drop out and kill one unit of broadsides easily. Tetras are forced to jink again. The Wraithknight manages to fail his charge with a re-roll, leaving the second XV88 squad alive, and the WK high and dry.

Tau tetras re-roll their reserve results to come in successfully, then both outflank directly behind Eldar lines. All three units of Crisis suits deep strike in, landing within 6" of the Tetra homing beacons, preventing the suits from scattering -- a nice trick! Spoiled for choice, the Tau decide to dedicate major firepower into slaying the Eldar Warlord -- having heard of his martial prowess -- and are able to do so. They also kill the Fire Dragons by reducing their cover saves, and manage to wreck the Falcon with ease. On the other side of the table, a Riptide kills one wraithguard, and the other shoots a pie plate at warp spiders, who flickerjump out of LOS.

Expecting this kind of shenanigans, the Eldar reserves in centre-table (warp spiders, hawks, 2x scatbikes) come tearing in, along with the Guardians, reapers, and another scatbike unit. After the dust settles, the fusion suits are dead, the warlord is left on his own with 1 wound remaining, and a plasma squad is left with 2 models. Warp spiders multi-charge the warlord and plasma suits (needing a 9" with fleet), holding them up but taking a casualty. The hawks charge both tetra units and destroy one, glancing another. Back in the Tau DZ, wraithguard shoot and assault the other tetras, destroying one and hurting the other. The Wraithknight is able to make his charge this time, and aces the last two broadsides.

Tau turn 3 is looking rough, but one riptide powers up his force field and then blows away all but one wraithguard. The other moves backwards into the corner of the table, and sneaks an ignores-cover pie plate through two sets of ruins to kill 5 hawks. Back in combat the warlord and crisis suits are able to kill 2 more warp spiders, who then hit and run away and leave the tau standing in the open. (Tau Warlord also had Hit & Run, but couldn't pass his test with his low initiative.)

Guardians take out the warlord, reapers take out one unit of tetras, the hawk throws a haywire and then charges the other tetra and still fails to kill it, while the wraithknight tears apart one riptide. At this point the Tau player tries to zoom away his last tetra with 1HP left behind some terrain, and tries to find a way for his Riptide to evade the Wraithknight -- but there just isn't enough space, as the Eldar can easily catch both stragglers next turn, so we call it.

Eldar Victory!

As the Tau player said several times, he needed to break the Eldar army's back in one blow, or else he would be tabled -- and he was right. It was just impossible putting damage through the 3+ Eldar cover saves without markerlight support. Although when the tetras arrived the Tau did rock face, but it just wasn't quite enough.

Alrighty now, back to Game 4 against "The Hammer" list.

ITC Mission 4 - the Scouring, Hammer & Anvil

Ultramarines:
Tigerius
Auspex Librarian
3x 3 Centurions with grav guns, omniscope, grav amp
Drop pods
2x 5 Tac Marines
Drop Pods

Skyhammer
2x 5 Assault Marines with flamers
2x 5 Devastators with multimelta
Drop Pods

Inquisition:
Coteaz

Well there you go, the Drop Pod Alpha Strike list of absolute destruction! The only other army with 3/3 full point results at the beginning of Day 2, and couldnt have been wielded by more of a gentleman than Josh Dearth.

Warlord Trait: the Eldar roll Master of Ambush but try again for Conqueror of Cities or Night Attacker and fail, which was a poor choice.
Psychic Powers: Eldar roll Executioner, Guide, Shriek. Not very good. Tigerius gets the all-important Perfect Timing, while the librarian has Shriek and Coteaz has Precoginition and Forewarning.

Space Marines win roll for first turn, giving it to the Eldar. Tanaka sends his forces forwards in a 24" bubble of jetbikes and aspect warriors, with the Wraithknight in the far corner of the table hopefully out of range. Due to the size of the WK's base, a model at the very edge of the Eldar DZ could get in 24" though. The plan was to spread out even further in the first turn, and prevent grav guns from getting range on the Wraithknight.

Then the Space Marines go ahead and Seize the Initiative! Seeing a crucial gap in the Eldar defenses, drop pods come tearing down, landing danger close. One devastator squad mishaps by a hair of an inch and is placed at the rear of the table, while Coteaz and centurions come in on the Eldar left flank, an inch away from jetbikes and 10" from the table edge. Tigerius and centurions shoot the gap and land in the midst of the Eldar, between the Guardians, Jetbikes, Hawks, and Wave Serpent, drawing a bead on the WK. Next to him the Librarian and centurions also land, squeezing in to pound the Wave Serpent and jetbikes. Devastators land in the Eldar backfield beside the Falcon, risking a table edge mishap but successfully landing, and assault marines land in front of the dark reapers and hawks respectively.

The psychic phase begins with the Librarian casting Shriek with one charge on a unit of jetbikes - the Eldar pick up 7 dice to Deny, but fail. LIbrarian rolls 15 for the result, and the jetbikes are annihilated. Tigerius then puts up Perfect Timing, while Coteaz is able to put up Precognition and Forewarning.

In the shooting phase, the devastators take down the Falcon with 4 penetrates, of which 1 is saved. The Dragons bail out. Coteaz's centurions split fire between the wraithknight and fire dragons (only one cent is in range of the WK), taking out all of the Fire Dragons, and putting 4 wounds on the Wraithknight with only 5 shots -- ouch! After rolling 5+ invulnerable and 5+ Feel No Pain rolls, only a single wound was prevented.. Then Tigerius' centurion squad also split fire, targeting the wraithknight and a squad of jetbikes, 3 wounds are cause to the wraithknight, meaning only two need to be saved for him to survive the round -- but no invulnerable saves are made, and then no Feel No Pain saves are made either! Double ouch! The Wraithknight is down! Two centurions unload into the Farseer wiht his jetbikes, wounding the Farseer and killing the bikers. The Librarian's unit then split fires into the wave serpent and another unit of jetbikes, also managing to destroy both units. On top of a ruin, the assault marines hit the Reapers with flamers, killing two and wounding the Exarch. Down on the ground, flamers and bolters take out 4 swooping hawks, while drop pod bolters plink away at other units.

T1 Eldar Death Toll: Wraithknight, Jetbikes, 2x scatbikes, Falcon, Wave Serpent, Fire Dragons, 2 Dark Reapers, 4 Hawks, wounded Warlord.

OK now for the Eldar to strike back!

Wraithguard move up the window of their ruin, and lay D-templates all across the mess of centurions in the middle of the Eldar DZ, eliminating all 6 centurions and both attached librarians, including the Warlord, Tigerius, and his Drop Pod. Ouch! In the far back, the scatbikes manage to take out 4 of the 5 devastators, and kill the last one with Hammer of Wrath attacks, but lose one to overwatch unfortunately. On the left flank, the Warlord musters his elite soldiers and pours firepower into Coteaz and his unit -- two centurions are laid low, and the warp spiders, jetbikes, and Farseer charge in, forgetting that Coteaz not only has a 2+, but has Precognition ready to go. After a flurry of blows, the Eldar Farseer is slain, and lone surviving jetbike sent packing, but the Warp Spiders stand. In the middle, 2 swooping hawks jump up to join the reapers and hopefully screen them from being charged, but one of them dies to DT, so that plan won't work. Shooting is able to kill both flamers in the assault marine unit.

Space Marines Turn 2 -- both tactical units drop in, arriving in the Marine DZ, while the remaining marines move up. Assault marines charge into the hawks and reapers, killing the hawk but losing a marine in return to a violent reaper exarch. Coteaz beats up some warp spiders, bringing their numbers down to 4, who then hit and run away.

In Eldar Turn 2, the two remaining scatbikes along with the guardians shoot into Coteaz, who no longer has precognition or forewarning, but fail to push any wounds through. Wraithguard are too far way to hit the centurion with d-scythes, but manage to pop two drop pods at least. Warp Spiders put a lot of rends into the small assault marine squad, who go to ground, but only two die after a nice 6+ cover save and some LOS rolls into heavy cover. The Warp Spiders then run and jump to the top of the ruin to makes things confusing. Sadly the reapers are unable to pull out any lucky hits either, but are killed in return for their efforts.

Marine Turn 3, the marines drunk on hitting Eldar with their chainswords move up to charge the scatbikes, and are able to kill them for no casualties. Coteaz and centurion have no problem split firing into the wraithguard and warp spiders, the centurion rolling 5 hits, 5 wounds, and the wraithguard failing 5 cover saves -- ouch! Coteaz then charges into the warp spiders, and has no trouble dispatching all of them with his nemesis daemon hammer either. Bam!

At this point the only unit left is Guardians, who throw their last shuriken at Coteaz and hightail it off the board.

Imperial Victory!! 

Talking over this game with my opponent, there were three main takeaways or moments:

#1 Obviously, had the wraithknight made some statistical, or even slightly below average, saves, he would have survived turn 1. In that sense the Eldar list and strategy was sound, with just one mistake:

#2 The guardians were deployed in a ruin for no reason at all -- they should have been bubbled around like the other units, to prevent tiggy and the cents from getting in close, which is what cost the WK his life, and the Eldar the game.

#3 Even after all of these problems, suicidally charging into coteaz and the centurion was a foolish move, there were more options available to the Eldar than that. This took a possible long shot to victory and just tossed it in the can, haha.

Very well played by my opponent, who went on to become TSHFT champion, it was an extremely enjoyable, friendly, and educational game, despite the spanking.

In conclusion, TSHFT was indeed a blast, highly recommended event -- we had about 60 people which is amazing, and there were some truly stunning as well as beatstick brutal lists to be had. Croneworld Eldar took 3rd behind an Ork list (yeah!) and Josh's Hammertime drop pods.

Regarding the list, overall it has been performing extremely well with minimal adjustments for the last three events -- so far going 12-1 on the 2015 circuit. The hawks continue to be included, but have not been pulling their weight compared to other things. I would also LOVE to include banshees somehow, but they might have to be a free unit for that to happen. Scatbikes are useful but definitely not the be-all, end-all and I would not take more than there are right now. This was the first time the Wraithknight has gone shiv-only, forsaking all shooting altogether, and I can't say there was any moment where that concerned me or that I regretted it. Having the scattershield definitely helped, and at one point an enemy was even blinded which was great.

MVP is a toss-up between the Dark Reapers and Wraithknight actually. In Games 2, 3, and 5 the Dark Reapers aced the enemy warlord at range, as well as doing numerous horrible things to bikers, jetbikes, and a farseer as well. Knocking out a sicaran turn 1 game 1was also a solid performance. The Wraithknight on the other hand was easily the single biggest factor in winning Games 2, 3, and 5, although he didn't kill any warlords this tournament.

Wooden Hammer goes to the Swooping Hawks followed by the Guardians, for doing virtually nothing in 5 games, although the Guardians did at least do a good job in a couple of games, and would have helped win Game 4 if they had been positioned a little bit better.

Highlight of the tournament: Farseer cutting down the last model in the enemy army by hand in three games in a row!

Hoping to get out to another 5 game event in two weeks, but using slightly different rules, so have some modelling to do for that, will keep you posted!

Cheers
Ibushi
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Offline DCannon ForLife

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Re: GT list to think on
« Reply #25 on: August 24, 2015, 11:14:18 PM »
All hail the Glaive Knight!

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Re: GT list to think on
« Reply #26 on: August 26, 2015, 12:38:36 AM »
So I've been doing some analysis of how to counter grav centurions obliterating wraithknights and jetbikes etc.:

The best counter Eldar have to drop pod armies is deployment, either by Castling up effectively and using screening units such as Guardians, or by null-deploying and hoping to Beta Strike the marines once they are down. Null-deploying, i.e. leaving a Wraithknight and other hard units on the table to weather enemy shooting, and bringing all your other units in from Reserves, is a very effective strategy in general, and a good counter to most Drop Pod armies. Against Centurions or Centstar armies, especially with Skyhammer added in, I do not recommend null-deploying, as they can all come down Turn 1 and obliterate all your models easily, leaving you tabled before the reserves can arrive. Any army with mobile grav weapons is going to totally destroy your big monster in one round of shooting.

This means that the remaining strategies are to castle up, or to do something we haven't thought of yet. Let's look at castling up: basically you deploy every single model you are able to, and keep your wraithknight as far back as possible to be out of the 24" range of the graviton weapons. Once the Drop Pod Assault blows its load and wipes out a whack load of Eldar, hopefully you have enough left to counter-attack and murderize all the mon-keigh. Let's look at how to do this in Hammer and Anvil so your wraithknight does not get pummelled into oblivion in one turn:

Firstly, even in Hammer and Anvil, YOU CANNOT ESCAPE the 24" range, as the DZ itself is only 24" deep, so wherever you put the WK, his base will add another 3-4" beyond your DZ where centurions can drop pod in and blast him from. It is pretty straightforward to get 3 centurions into this counter-bubble, given how accurate drop pods are, and how models get to deploy a full 6" from their landing site. You could conceivably get more than 3 centurions in this little spot, but 3 is enough to take down a WK.

Therefore, in order to prevent centurions from ganking your wraithknight turn one (it only takes 2 centurions to do it sometimes!), you have to have at least two models with scout or infiltrate to create a solid 24" bubble in Hammer & Anvil. Ideally you would also have Fortune/Invisibility for the counter-attack to help your wraithknight cover the distance. Even though the WK can't easily get a charge off Eldar T1 due to the 24" bubble, it's worth it, as the Centurions only get to re-roll shooting on the turn they use their Devastator Doctrine, which is usually going to be used the turn they come down, and because even if you don't kill them, you stand a good chance of being able to hold up the units in combat, especially if you have some warp spiders, etc.

OK, next up is going to be Vanguard Strike, then Dawn of War. Lastly we will try and think of new ways to deal with this horrible alpha strike situation.

Cheers
Ibushi

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Offline Cavalier

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Re: GT list to think on
« Reply #27 on: August 26, 2015, 08:43:59 AM »
I'm with you Ibushi, been thinking along similar lines myself. I think Guardian bubble-wrap, and Striking Scorpions would be a good way of dealing with it. The Scorpions also help in that the Exarch can actually go out there and take a few of those Centurions down, while the other Scorps tie them down in combat. But the devil's in the details and setting up such a trap does require excellent attention to detail.

Another alternative is to put your Wave Serpents out first, have those Guardians and Striking Scorpions out there as well to hunker down and potentially nab some of those Centurions at close range, and then bring the Wraithknight in with an Autarch (or even double Autarch) to guarantee or deny the Wraithknights arrival until the time is right. An Aegis defense-line with Comms Relay will help too.

Just a couple of thoughts.
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Offline DCannon ForLife

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Re: GT list to think on
« Reply #28 on: August 26, 2015, 10:12:57 AM »
Don't bring a Wraith Knight is also an option. ~300 points of 'other' Eldar units is not to be dismissed out of hand.

Offline Ibushi

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Re: GT list to think on
« Reply #29 on: August 26, 2015, 12:15:09 PM »
@Cavalier, that's true with scorpions, assuming you take first turn, as then whichever scorpions survive are then able to assault turn 2. There is also the risk of going second and just getting hammered for two turns first, in which case they may as well be rangers.

Actually the scouting option has made me lean towards war walkers -- if you have a squad of 3, two can scout up into the death zone, keeping one back under a void shield or out of LOS, that way they can still survive the onslaught.

@DCannon4Life, I have also been thinking about this option, but even if the big guy gets punched in the nuts by the grav hammer armies, he hands down has won me so many games practically on his lonesome, it is an unattractive prospect. Learning not to rely on the WK as a crutch? Absolutely. In fact, I would be happy if the cents did take out my wraithknight, leaving enough aspect warriors and tanks to do the heavy lifting. The problem is when they ace your wraithknight with just two models shooting, and the rest of the grav spam then wipes out all the aspect warriors too!

OK so looking at Vanguard Strike, you basically set up in the same corner, and the 24" zone of death is basically entirely within your DZ, so that is good. If your WK is properly in the corner, there will be a tiny bubble of 24" death at exactly the centre of your DZ line, depending which way your WK's base is facing.

The real nasty is DoW deployment -- with 12" deployment there is no way to prevent the grav spam from targeting your WK unless you go first and use full movement to bubble out, or unless you have Master of Ambush, or a ton of infiltrators/scouts. Even still, squeeze into the corner to maximize drop pod risk of scattering off the board and to give them a limited front from which to attack.

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Offline Hannibal.Lictor

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Re: GT list to think on
« Reply #30 on: August 26, 2015, 01:08:47 PM »
I watched a good portion of the last game, and had played the T cav guy the first round. I have reinserted my knight into the list after watching; he is a real beast.

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Re: GT list to think on
« Reply #31 on: August 26, 2015, 03:35:10 PM »
Against the Tau? Yeah when I saw his deployment of just the Firebase Cadre + Riptide I figured the WK could smash all of them unsupported... He is basically the perfect way to deal with Firebase.

What were you playing?

Moving forwards, I might try out some test games bringing back good old Eldrad for his Scout warlord trait. Even if you don't need scout for bubble purposes, it could still be fun to outflank the wraithguard in their ride and see what happens! Plus ML4, Force, and regenerating warp charges are nice benefits. We'll see..

Cheers
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Offline Hannibal.Lictor

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Re: GT list to think on
« Reply #32 on: August 27, 2015, 12:54:08 AM »
The GCUP third game with the Cav and Conclave with the skyhammer nonsense. I have been messing around with the Cast of players formation. Thinking about a grotesquery with a Wraithseer and wraithknight for fun.

Offline Ibushi

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Re: GT list to think on
« Reply #33 on: August 27, 2015, 12:41:36 PM »
Ah yeah man, I remember!

Would love to find a way to run Cast of Players, let me know how it goes.

I have a set of kabuki harlequins made out of green stuff, easily my favourite painted unit, just haven't managed to get them on the tabletop recently.

Back at our FLG there is a DE player running Grotesquerie to great effect. Two squads of 3 grotesques can really mess things up, it catches you off guard.

Cheers
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Offline Hannibal.Lictor

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Re: GT list to think on
« Reply #34 on: August 27, 2015, 01:33:43 PM »
I am loving the Cast of Players, though it has zero tolerance for mistakes. Well, not quite zero, but it dose drive your list building. In my second game I had Aaron A on the fence, but forgot about my extra inch movements on my warlord's unit and instead of killing the second centstar, failed an 8 inch charge with a seven (yes rerolled, but thats the game we play) and lost my autarch, farseer, shadowseer and a bunch of quins in the next shooting round. That pretty much broke my back. That being said, I have had them eat two imp knights and a command bike squad in a single game.

If you run them, I would suggest that you have another huge threat or two. A few key elements to their survival are the Veil of Tears and with luck Fortune. If Bel-Anath was ML3 I would take him for the guaranteed fortune; we will see what fall brings with the rumored IA11 2nd Ed. The other issue I am am runnning into is that the Jester creates a need for Split Fire. There are so many times that I am having to decide whether or not its better to run a unit off the board and sit out of combat or get stuck in so i cant be shot at. The cheapest I can find is Mugan-Ra, but thats almost another hornet squadron.

I love the idea of the big guardian squad. The proliferation of grav weapons has led me to eleminate my knight from my lists, but I never thought about jamming in a 20 man unit to cover ground; 40 bladestorm shots is not too shabby either and you can pop in a warlock to give them a decent cover save. You also have me looking at spiders again. I hate the models, but your massively converted army makes for no small amount of insperation. My quins are almost all conversions from wytches.

Are you in the portland area?

Offline Ibushi

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Re: GT list to think on
« Reply #35 on: August 27, 2015, 08:19:28 PM »
That sounds really awesome, what is the list you run at 1850. Or rather, what would be your most optimized Cast of Players list as of right now -- these things change all the right, right?

For the bubbling out against centurions or skyhammer, I've found that 10 guardians is always enough if you deploy in the corner and have a wave serpent or something to fill up a bit more space. Usually I like to have multiple screening units rather than 1 big one too, as often you find that there is a nice piece of impassable terrain you can position behind, and then put a screening unit on either side of it. Most of the time I use my wraithguard serpent to block large areas, then string guardians between the gaps. I use swooping hawks too, but I think i'm going to take them out of the list now.

Actually Bel-annath looks like he could be a pretty good contender. Even with ML2 you just need to pump up the WC with a spiritseer or something, and you should be able to get Fortune every turn. That AP2 heavy flamer is really nasty! But the big problem with him is the last update was from last edition and last codex, so I'd feel a bit compromised rocking those rules at a big event, even if the TO was cool with it. Fingers crossed for a decent FAQ or update this autumn and he should be good to go. Regarding the DJ though, one option is if you do take Bel-annath, make him the HQ for the quins and take them as a CAD instead of a Cast of Players. Then you can just put the DJ in your screening unit of Guardians for Ld 10 and shooting, plus hit & run as if they would ever need it haha. Apparently Forgeworld Eldar models of any kind can be taken by Harlequins, as they are also Codex:Eldar. So alternatively you could do this with the shadow spectres phoenix lord too.

It's true that grav weapons just ruin knights, but i think the matchups where knights utterly dominate are still the majority. Even if you can use the WK as a huge piece of bait against a grav-spam army, his sacrifice should allow you pull out the W. That's my thinking anyway. In general though, I'm happy that grav spam makes WKs a riskier choice.

I'm base out of Vancouver BC, not PDX i'm afraid -- but have a lot of close friends down that way, so we like to make the trip down when events are on.

Cheers
Ibushi
Check out my PLOG! Croneworld Koxinga Rises

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Offline Hannibal.Lictor

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Re: GT list to think on
« Reply #36 on: August 27, 2015, 09:47:31 PM »
Optimized list? Not yet my friend. I have been tossing around various elements and trying to find the right composite.

You will be funneling a fair amount of points into that unit, so everything else has to be super point efficient. I love me some hornets. I ran the Crimson Death unit (faced zero flyers) and found that they didn't preform quite as well as the hornets for almost half the price; must be ruling all twelve dice at once that dose the trick. I think the knight is about as efficient as they come. Bikes, spiders, the usual stuff. At the cup I tried DA squads without serpents and some d scythes. With how deviasating the cast can be, the d scythes are somewhat redundant. As too the DA, unless it's a full squad in a serpent, won't be taking them.

There are a few units that make the Cast shine. One of the main reasons to use the cast are the LD shenanigans. There are the obvious ones: Armor of Misery, Covens detachment, wraith fighter. Past those there are some other ones that really push it home. Shadow Specters with the Shadow of Death upgrade can be back breaking to anything with a LD value. Autarch with a banshee mask is also super helpful. I am toying with Iryrillith inside my Cast. He gives me both split fire and Shadow of Death. Get lucky on the Quin warlord table and deep strike that unit it and it's pretty nasty. WWP with the Armor of misery, a shriek maybe storm them the Jester doing a wound; you can blast 2-3 units off the table.

Like I said still suing around. Part of me has been contemplating a tantalus with its massive transport capacity. Worse thing that can happen is you get tabled and drink a beer; still had a beer.

Offline Ibushi

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Re: GT list to think on
« Reply #37 on: August 28, 2015, 02:01:33 PM »
Ok sounds good, we'll pick up the harlequins discussion in your thread -- I really like the idea of that kind of army, and we have a charity tournament event coming up here at the end of september, so maybe I will give them a whirl as well for that :)

Maybe I should rename this thread and turn it more into a blog for the various exploits of Tanaka the Cannibal's Croneworld Eldar. Still hoping to get some proper pictures of those guys up, but none of my friends have decent cameras either...

Right now the two list concepts that I am hoping to develop are 1) eldar with a unit of harlequins, and 2) some kind of viable footdar list. Given that tanks are so important for various tactical reasons, Footdar in my mind is allowed to have 1 serpent or falcon, but other people might not like that. Anyway, obviously the two are not mutually exclusive, and suggestions or insights would be most welcome. Currently the closest I have to a Footdar list right now is:

Farseer on foot
3x3 jetbikes
6 Hawks
2 D-cannnons
Wraithlord - BL
Wraithknight - sword
Void Shield Generator

Aspect Host:
10 Dire Avengers
8 Spiders
8 Spiders

Aspect Host:
5 Dragons
5 Dragons
4 Dark Reapers

Has a scary mid-range bubble, and then relies on spiders, hawks, and WK to clear out the corners, while jetbikes hold back and cap objectives.

Also I've found dragons on foot to be surprisingly useful, given their small footprint and speedy nature.

Cheers
Ibushi
Check out my PLOG! Croneworld Koxinga Rises

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Offline Hannibal.Lictor

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Re: GT list to think on
« Reply #38 on: August 29, 2015, 03:36:43 AM »
Not sure if you are a Forge World kinda guy, but a Wraithseer is pretty tight and a mobile D cannon. Have you thought about war walkers? In place of the Lord, they can provide a ton more Dakka. With two Aspect Hosts, all BS5, whats not to love?

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Re: GT list to think on
« Reply #39 on: August 31, 2015, 05:40:20 PM »
I've just found the wraithseer is a bit too expensive, and generally don't use FW as a rule..

Thats true, walkers could add in some good firepower, my trusty unit of 3 with SL has not seen much action recently. With the VSG their survivability should improve quite well though.

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