Topic: Different saves and "Look out sir"

[Reepy]

As it is written it seems to me that "look out sir" is resolved after the wound has been failed. But what happens with a unit of mixed saves?

Examples:

Space Marine Librarian with Terminator armour in front of a tactical squad. The librarian fails every sixth normal save and a tactical marine jumps in front of the him on a 2+.

Tyranid Prime in front of a bunch of gaunts. The Prime fails every third wound, a gaunt jumps in front of him on a 2+.

And the most bad ass - Eldrad in front of a group of guardians with Fortune/Precognition. He takes his 3++ save (twice) and if he finally fails a guardian jumps in front of him on a 2+.

I don't believe it has been intended this way and my opinion is that in a squad of mixed saves you have to do the "Look out sir" before the save is thrown. But I cannot find anything in the book that says that.

What do you guys think?

[Killing Time]

If you look at the box containing the Look Out Sir rule on page 16, it states that you make the LOS attempt and then resolve the wound.

The only stipulation is that the LOS attempt is made when the wound is allocated to the character.

Since wounds can be allocated with a save already taken (in the case of single save squads) or with saves yet to take (in the case of mixed save squads or precision shots / strikes) then I see no reason why LOS cannot be attempted either before or after a save, depending on circumstance.

[Reepy]

If you look at the box containing the Look Out Sir rule on page 16, it states that you make the LOS attempt and then resolve the wound.

Well I saw the "resolve" part but what does that mean actually? I read "resolve" as "remove the wounded model or put a wound on it if it has many".

[pudd]

I've looked at that as well and if they didn't put the "(or unsaved wound)" part in there then it would have been a bit clearer.

On the page before it the title is Allocate Wounds & Resolve Casualties. It says that after you work out how many wounds are in the wound pool you then allocate the wounds to whatever models and then resolve the saving throws

Looking at the words very clearly it says that after you roll the Look Out, Sir and if you pass it then you allocate the wound to the new model and then resolve the wound against them.

I'm hoping I'm not just trying to see whatever I want here but this is my interpretation of it.

[Killing Time]

The rule is very clear.

Look Out Sir attempts are made when the wound is allocated to a model.

In single save units you roll to wound, take as many saves as required, and then allocate them in turn.
If a character is allocated a wound at this stage then a LOS roll may be made and either the character or another model takes the wound immediately since a save has already been taken.

In multi save units the wound is allocated to a character singly since he has terminator armour on (for example). You must then immediately make the choice to attempt for LOS since the wound has just been allocated.
Either you can attempt to use the better armour save of the character, but risk him taking a wound, or you can LOS and allocate the wound to a grunt using their worse save from the off.

You cannot take the 2+ character save and then choose to LOS it if it fails, since that would be against the rule that LOS is attempted immediately after the wound was allocated.

[Guildmage Aech]

Yes, the rules for units with mixed armour saves will modify the look out sir! rule.

The rule even accounts for this by stating for each "wound (or unsaved wound)" so I agree that the model making the save then takes the wound. No free lunch.

[Reepy]

That's good. I was starting to imagine that the model goes "Look out sir" and then slips into his commander's armour. Hilarious when you think about it.