Topic: 1200 Vs. Chaos Space Marines

[Sayt]

Greetings and Hello!  For the first time in forever, I had a game of 40k with a friend, and It's looking like I have another game of 40k in my near future, and I've been doing a bit of of work on my Tau, fixing the Devilfish, so on, so forth, and I've come up with another list for 1200 points (which is what my friend feels comfortable putting on the table with the amount of troops choices he has available.), and we'll probably be playing on a 4'x4' table.

So, with no further ado:

HQ
-Cadre Fireblade:XX points
--Warlord, sits in Bastion with Pathfinders, markerlighting and supporting in case they happen to be charged.

Elites
-Crisis Suit team: 1x Shas'Vre with Command and Control Node, Puretime Engram Chip, 2x Shas'Ui each with 2x Fusion Blaster, 2x Shield Drones: 190
--For less than the cost of four fusion piranhas, puts out as many fusion shots, but they're also twin linked, tank hunting melta shots.  Will either deep strike, or take cover, depending on deployment and army choice.  Volume of fire also means that they can plink at Chaos marines if neccessary. Shield Drones are for durability, of course.
-Crisis Suit Team: 3x Shas'Ui each with 2x Burst Cannons, 2x Gun Drones: 158
--Fire support unit for the Fire warriors.  Possibly the most marginal unit.

Troops:
- Fire Warrior Team: 1x Fire Warriors with Rifles, 1x Devilfish with 2x Seeker Missiles: 186
- Fire Warrior Team: 1x Fire Warriors with Rifles, 1x Devilfish with 2x Seeker Missiles: 186
--Scoring units, Stay in devilfish  until they need to jump on an objective.   May give the Fish sensor spines, as the game board will likely have a lot of ruins/craters etc.

Fast Attack:
-Pathfinder Team:8x Pathfinders with Markerlights and Pulse Carbines: 88 points
--Sit in the Bastion with the Fireblade, lighting up the enemy.  My understanding, and my opponents, is that weapons fired out of fire slots on buildings don't need to be at the same target, which is my justification for a pathfinder unit of this size.

Heavy Support:
-Hammerhead Gunship: Ion cannon, Blacksun Filter: 126 points
-Hammerhead Gunship: Ion cannon, Blacksun Filter: 126 points
--I Yhwh-condemned love me some Ion cannon hammerheads.  The Pieplate comes free, and last game a first turn overcharge ate almost an entire unit of chaos marines, and the other immobalised a rhino before it had a chance to move.

Fortification:
-Bastion: xx Points
--Put this down in deployment area with a corner pointing at the enemies deployment, and I should be able to get 6-8  Lights out the window, or maybe man the heavy bolters.


I'm open to suggestions, but note that I don't have Riptides, Broadsides, or more Crisis suits to put down.  Possibly substitutions are Stealth Suits, more fire warriors, different Crisis setups.  I'm also curious about running Darkstrider and a unit of Pathfinders with special weapons as a combat/assault unit with a recon drone to call in deep striking Crisis suits, although that seems...reckless.

Edit: It seems we've been incorrect about firing out of buildings, you must still fire at a single unit out of firing slits, so pathfinder squad is likely to shrink.

[Wiggus]

Im not sure why the fireblade is with the pathfinders as his rule doesnt apply to the marklights which hopefully is what your shooting the most.
Personally i get your rationale for the first crisis suit team but its a mistake to compare it to the 4 fusion pirahnas remember the pirahnas will be bringing 8 drones to the table which is one of the best anti-flyer units in the game imo (cept av12)
At the moment im finding crisis more a liability than ever they seem to draw the Lascannons like flies to well you know..... instant killing my suits not good but maybe thats just my meta.

[Wyddr]

The one argument I would hazard *against* Piranha in this specific list is the fact that you'll be playing on a 4x4 board. That doesn't give a lot of room for the Piranhas to attack a flank, and they drop really fast if you fly them up the middle.

On the ostensible subject of Crisis Suits, though, I think the first team shouldn't be thought of as having much flexibility against infantry. Yeah, they are high strength, low AP shots, but there are only four such shots--it can only go so far. Definitely an emergency thing. I would also recommend a Flamer on the Engram/C+C Node suit, since that adds a lot of utility for both the occasional horde control and a good overwatch threat for a unit that is going to be operating in close.

The second crisis team is okay, but I feel could be more useful to the firewarriors than they are currently. Consider swapping out a burst cannon or two (or three) for flamers. If this unit is going to be hanging out with the FWs anyway, the prospect of granting 3 flamers to any prospective overwatch is definitely worth considering. Change two of them to TL Burst Cannons/Flamers and I think they'll be a bit better in their role for the cost. You've already got tons of S5 shooting, so you don't necessarily need more. If you have the points to spare, consider giving this unit a Shas'vre w/2x Burst Cannons and Advanced Targeting System. You'll generate almost three precision strikes per volley that way, which could also be a big help for those FW teams.

[Halollet]

The only thing I would change is would be drop the Fireblade, as he seems pretty useless with your army, and I would take an Ethereal and put him with your 'Fish.  That way you can really hammer something when you pop out and you can just leave the Ethereal in the tank.  This also might take some of the heavy weapon pressure off of your suits.

I might also drop the bastion to take more fire warriors.  Maybe.

[Sayt]

Okay!  List is modified, thanks all for the advice!

Unfortunately, I don't have an ethereal to sub in in place of the Fireblade, but I've twiddled around and slipped in Darkstrider.

HQ
-Darkstrider, xxx points
--Warlord, sits in the devilfish with the larger fire warrior squad, bolsters the fire warrior squad, makes them more survivable with the fallback, and helps with their shooting.

Elites
-Crisis Suit team: 1x Shas'Vre with Command and Control Node, Puretime Engram Chip, 2x Shas'Ui each with 2x Fusion Blaster: 166
--I realise that these guys aren't line duty for anti-infantry, but if the choice presents itself, and there are no more vehicles in range, these will likely be pot shotting smaller squads like terminators or chosen.
 
-Crisis Suit Team: 3x Shas'Ui each with TL Burst Cannons, Flamer: 126
--Fire support unit for the Fire warriors, and general infantry hunting.

Troops:
- Fire Warrior Team: 11x Fire Warriors with Rifles, 1x Devilfish w/ Point Defence Targeting Relay, SMS, Sensor Spines: 199
- Fire Warrior Team: 10x Fire Warriors with Rifles, 1x Devilfish w/ Point Defence Targeting Relay, SMS, Sensor Spines: 190
--Scoring units, Stay in devilfish  until they need to jump on an objective.   May give the Fish sensor spines, as the game board will likely have a lot of ruins/craters etc.  They have been modifed to give better overwatch fire, and Sensor spines are so the fish can sit in or behind cover, in ruins, etc without getting mucked up by the terrain.

Fast Attack:
-Pathfinder Team:6x Pathfinders with Markerlights and Pulse Carbines: 66 points
--These guys are going to sit on top of the bastion, most likely, and take advantage of the cover save from the battlements


Heavy Support:
-Hammerhead Gunship: Ion cannon, Blacksun Filter, Seeker Missile: 134 points
-Hammerhead Gunship: Ion cannon, Blacksun Filter, Seeker Missile: 134 points
--I Yhwh-condemned love me some Ion cannon hammerheads.  The Pieplate comes free, and last game a first turn overcharge ate almost an entire unit of chaos marines, and the other immobalised a rhino before it had a chance to move.

Fortification:
-Bastion: xx Points
--Put this down in deployment area with a corner pointing at the enemies deployment area, pathfinders sit on the top.

I'm generally more happy with this list than the last, and I hope it would work better than the last.  Any further critiques?

[Halollet]

Your list looks good. Just a few ideas for tactics.

I had to reread Darkstrider and he's got some intereting ideas around him.

Like outflanking, dropping with a unit of FW and laying waste to the back of a rhino or any tank that isn't a land raider.  Give his unit all carbines so you have your maximum potential from far away! Outflanking him in general might be a good idea, one less thing you need to hide and a surprise attack like that would be nice to see.

Also, don't keep your FW in the fish the whole game.  Drop them down behind the fish and use their X0" range from under the tank to shoot things far away, and then next turn just hop back in and move the tank.  Yes, the opponent gets cover saves but if you're facing marines then they'll use their armour instead anyway you shoot at them.

Other then that, looks good.  I'd love to hear how Darkstrider worked out for ya!