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Author Topic: Cheesy, bad or stupid? Old player back for more 1500.p  (Read 4578 times)

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Offline Aralion

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Cheesy, bad or stupid? Old player back for more 1500.p
« on: February 9, 2016, 03:38:38 PM »
Hi all.

So I have decided to come back to the hobby after 8 years retirement, mainly due to a lot of my favorite miniatures have become plastic and I have nothing better to do.
My eyes have fallen on the wraith host since it has been a long dream of mine to use a wraith army, and with the beautiful "new" Scourge models which I can convert to Hawks, I feel that this is the right army for me.

What do you guys think about this list? I am not adept with what is good, not good, cheesy (I do know  that the Wraithknight is though).

The wraith host is mandatory since I really want to paint one up. The others can be switched out for something else. I really do like the Scourge/Hawks models though so if I need to change something, I really woud like to have one of them left.

The Idea of this army is just that there are no Idea. Just 2 of the formations that holds the miniatures I like.

Spiritseer: 70

5x Wraithguard 160.p

5x Wraithguard 160.p

5x Wraithguard 160.p

Wraithlord: 2x Scatter Lasers 150.p

Wraithknight 295.p

6x Swooping Hawks: Exarch 106.p

6x Swooping Hawks: Exarch 106.p

6x Swooping Hawks: Exarch 106.p

Hemlock Wraithfighter 185.p

1498.p

What do you think?

Offline haunt

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Re: Cheesy, bad or stupid? Old player back for more 1500.p
« Reply #1 on: February 9, 2016, 07:50:48 PM »
Looks good to me, by my standard.. :)

Then again I am a big Iyanden fan.
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Offline Aralion

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Re: Cheesy, bad or stupid? Old player back for more 1500.p
« Reply #2 on: February 10, 2016, 12:55:14 AM »
Thanks.

What are the main advantages, disadvantages with a list like this. Have some dirty tricks even to share?

Also for 1500,p and for this list. What should I equip the Knight with?
« Last Edit: February 10, 2016, 01:15:35 AM by Aralion »

Offline Cavalier

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Re: Cheesy, bad or stupid? Old player back for more 1500.p
« Reply #3 on: February 10, 2016, 06:54:57 AM »
Nothing cheesy about it. Foot slogging Wraithguard are challenging to play. The Hawks, Hemlock and Wraithknight will give you give you the ability to attack more quickly. Also if I'm not mistaken you do get matchless agility (I could be wrong on that) which will help get you into across the board and into cover more easily.

Also the Hawks will help out AA duties and be a great scoring option as well.

My only suggestion is to consider getting the Skathatch Wraithknight from FW. Despite the Hawks you really could use some anti-infantry help and the Deathshroud Cannons on the Skathatch Wraithknight are fantastic. If you are going for an Iyanden/Ghost style army the Skathatch is phenomenal. You can magnetize and basically have all the options.

Anyway good luck and let us know how your army does!
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Offline Spectral Arbor

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Re: Cheesy, bad or stupid? Old player back for more 1500.p
« Reply #4 on: February 10, 2016, 06:59:43 AM »
You can't take the "Wraith Construct" formation unless you're running a Craftworld Warhost "Mega Formation". Only the Formations listed at the back of the book can be taken as stand-alones. Otherwise, you're looking at an "Auxiliary Choice".

To access those you need to take a "Core" choice first. Either Guardian, or Windrider host.

Offline Rx8Speed

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Re: Cheesy, bad or stupid? Old player back for more 1500.p
« Reply #5 on: February 10, 2016, 11:13:34 AM »
swap the hemlock for a set of d-scythes and a waveserpent for one of your wraithguard. This is my favourite unit it will give you a battle forged list without changing much and one of your wraithguard units become MUCH deadlier!

Offline Aralion

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Re: Cheesy, bad or stupid? Old player back for more 1500.p
« Reply #6 on: February 10, 2016, 12:26:05 PM »
You can't take the "Wraith Construct" formation unless you're running a Craftworld Warhost "Mega Formation". Only the Formations listed at the back of the book can be taken as stand-alones. Otherwise, you're looking at an "Auxiliary Choice".

To access those you need to take a "Core" choice first. Either Guardian, or Windrider host.

So do you mean that I cant take the Wraith host as a stand alone, same as with the Aspect host and not get the nice bonuses? Back in my days, we played 3'rd and 4'th edition.

swap the hemlock for a set of d-scythes and a waveserpent for one of your wraithguard. This is my favourite unit it will give you a battle forged list without changing much and one of your wraithguard units become MUCH deadlier!

So what do you guys think about this change? I changed as the tip, gave the Wave Serpent Scatter Lasers (to fit my theme of lasers and d's) and a Shuriken Cannon. This left me with 10 points so I gave the Wraithlord a Sword and a Starcannon.

Spiritseer: 70

5x Wraithguard: D-Scythes 210.p

5x Wraithguard 160.p

5x Wraithguard 160.p

Wraithlord: Ghostglave 1x Scatter Lasers, 1x Star Cannon 160.p

Wraithknight 295.p

6x Swooping Hawks: Exarch 106.p

6x Swooping Hawks: Exarch 106.p

6x Swooping Hawks: Exarch 106.p

Wave Serpent: Twin Linked Scatter Laser, Shuriken Cannon 125.p

1498.p


Offline Spectral Arbor

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Re: Cheesy, bad or stupid? Old player back for more 1500.p
« Reply #7 on: February 10, 2016, 12:41:32 PM »
You can take the Wraith Host and Aspect host as stand-alones. It's a little complicated.

You can take a stand-alone formation, as long as there's a "data sheet" with the Three-Skulls-on-a-Circle Icon, that typically describes the units available / required, and then bonuses for taking those groups.

In the Eldar Codex, those data sheets are after the unit descriptions, I'm 90% sure.

The "Wraith Construct" auxiliary has no such Data Sheet, and there are no descriptions of the benefits of taking it. Which is why you can't take an army of "just" Wraithknights. You've got to take a minimum Core-Host first, then fill out the rest of your points with Wraithknights. :)

Offline Aralion

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Re: Cheesy, bad or stupid? Old player back for more 1500.p
« Reply #8 on: February 10, 2016, 02:48:11 PM »
You can take the Wraith Host and Aspect host as stand-alones. It's a little complicated.

You can take a stand-alone formation, as long as there's a "data sheet" with the Three-Skulls-on-a-Circle Icon, that typically describes the units available / required, and then bonuses for taking those groups.

In the Eldar Codex, those data sheets are after the unit descriptions, I'm 90% sure.

The "Wraith Construct" auxiliary has no such Data Sheet, and there are no descriptions of the benefits of taking it. Which is why you can't take an army of "just" Wraithknights. You've got to take a minimum Core-Host first, then fill out the rest of your points with Wraithknights. :)

Thanks for clearing it up.

I played around a little bit and came up with this one. Better or worse?

Spiritseer: 70

5x Wraithguard: D-Scythes 210.p

Wave Serpent: Twin Linked Scatter Laser, Shuriken Cannon 125.p

5x Wraithguard: D-Scythes 210.p

Wave Serpent: Twin Linked Scatter Laser, Shuriken Cannon 125.p

5x Wraithguard 160.p

Wraithlord: 2x Scatter Lasers 150.p

Wraithknight 295.p

8x Swooping Hawks: Exarch 154.p

1499.p

Less anti air but fast and have good anti infantry and anti tank.


Post Merge: February 10, 2016, 03:40:22 PM
In the future, please use the modify button. Double posting is against the forum rules, and for that reason, the system merged your posts.

Nothing cheesy about it. Foot slogging Wraithguard are challenging to play. The Hawks, Hemlock and Wraithknight will give you give you the ability to attack more quickly. Also if I'm not mistaken you do get matchless agility (I could be wrong on that) which will help get you into across the board and into cover more easily.

Also the Hawks will help out AA duties and be a great scoring option as well.

My only suggestion is to consider getting the Skathatch Wraithknight from FW. Despite the Hawks you really could use some anti-infantry help and the Deathshroud Cannons on the Skathatch Wraithknight are fantastic. If you are going for an Iyanden/Ghost style army the Skathatch is phenomenal. You can magnetize and basically have all the options.

Anyway good luck and let us know how your army does!

Damn. I found some rules on the Deathshroud cannons. Really, really evil in a list like this. Thanks for the tip.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2016, 03:40:22 PM by Aralion »

Offline davethemadorctwo

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Re: Cheesy, bad or stupid? Old player back for more 1500.p
« Reply #9 on: February 10, 2016, 04:57:07 PM »
imo.
three units of hawks is too many - even at 2k
wraithlord are still overpointed - at 2k plus they can "hide'' in a mass of units and get into effective position - but below 1800 they will get sniped out [poison, lasguns, melta/plasma even grav]
i tend to run wraithguard of all varieties in 6's  - you can hide spiritseers in other units if you run mechdar'  or stay in unit on foot  - just watch out for snipers !
get as many spiritseers in as you can - even cheap farseers - they can boost wraith enough to make them worth their points !

enjoy.

Offline Spectral Arbor

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Re: Cheesy, bad or stupid? Old player back for more 1500.p
« Reply #10 on: February 10, 2016, 06:06:44 PM »
Well, what detachment do the Swooping Hawks belong to?

Offline Cavalier

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Re: Cheesy, bad or stupid? Old player back for more 1500.p
« Reply #11 on: February 11, 2016, 07:15:20 AM »
Damn. I found some rules on the Deathshroud cannons. Really, really evil in a list like this. Thanks for the tip.

The thing is a BEAST and a great looking kit... the Skathatch can also swap out one weapon for a shield which can tone him down a bit for more friendly games and give him a little buff in the process.

Being able to bounce into ongoing reserves when the going gets hot is pretty awesome as well. Like I said if you are going to go all Wraith check out FW... the Wraithseer is also an Independent Character so he can join units of Wraithguard and Wraithblades. While it'll lower his toughness due to majority toughness a unit of Wraithblades can serve as ablative wounds, and Lookout Sir! with their superior invulnerable saves. Furthermore he can use his psychic powers to get your Wraithguard moving quicker up the board with some of his powers. He's a little bit of a gamble points wise and not the guaranteed thing that the Skathatch is but he's worth considering.

Anyway man good luck and I'm glad you checked out the Deathshroud Wraithknight I hope you get him!
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Offline Aralion

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Re: Cheesy, bad or stupid? Old player back for more 1500.p
« Reply #12 on: February 11, 2016, 03:59:04 PM »
Damn. I found some rules on the Deathshroud cannons. Really, really evil in a list like this. Thanks for the tip.

The thing is a BEAST and a great looking kit... the Skathatch can also swap out one weapon for a shield which can tone him down a bit for more friendly games and give him a little buff in the process.

Being able to bounce into ongoing reserves when the going gets hot is pretty awesome as well. Like I said if you are going to go all Wraith check out FW... the Wraithseer is also an Independent Character so he can join units of Wraithguard and Wraithblades. While it'll lower his toughness due to majority toughness a unit of Wraithblades can serve as ablative wounds, and Lookout Sir! with their superior invulnerable saves. Furthermore he can use his psychic powers to get your Wraithguard moving quicker up the board with some of his powers. He's a little bit of a gamble points wise and not the guaranteed thing that the Skathatch is but he's worth considering.

Anyway man good luck and I'm glad you checked out the Deathshroud Wraithknight I hope you get him!

The Wraithseer is rather nasty aswell. Stick him in a full squad of Shield and Axe Wraithblades and give them Feel No Pain. Try killing that!

Spiritseer 70.p

Wraithseer: D Cannon 225.p

5x Wraithguard 160.p

5x Wraithguard 160.p

10x Wraithblades: Axe + Shield 300.p

Wraithknight 295.p

Wraithlord: 2x Scatter Lasers 150.p

Crimson Hunter 140.p OR 8x Swooping Hawks: Exarch 138.p

1500.p or 1498.p

Better, worse and what would work best in a list like this. The Hunter or the Hawks for primary anti air and secondary support?
« Last Edit: February 11, 2016, 04:09:53 PM by Aralion »

Offline Spectral Arbor

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Re: Cheesy, bad or stupid? Old player back for more 1500.p
« Reply #13 on: February 11, 2016, 08:16:24 PM »
Are you trying to make a Battle-forged list, or Unbound? You are not playing a battle forged list, so no formation bonuses.

Neither the Hunter nor the Hawks fit into a detachment.

Offline haunt

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Re: Cheesy, bad or stupid? Old player back for more 1500.p
« Reply #14 on: February 12, 2016, 07:08:00 AM »
There is an actual formation in there. The problem is what are we actually adding in that is making it unbound..
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Offline Spectral Arbor

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Re: Cheesy, bad or stupid? Old player back for more 1500.p
« Reply #15 on: February 12, 2016, 08:28:52 AM »
Er... I'm aware that there's a Wraith Host formation, but unless all of your models fit into detachments, you get no bonuses from any detachments.

In other words, there's no benefit to taking the Wraith Host's requirements over going full-on unbound. You could save yourself the Wraithlord points, for example, if you don't feel they're worthwhile, since you're not getting the Accuracy Bonus from the Wraith Host Detachment.

Offline haunt

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Re: Cheesy, bad or stupid? Old player back for more 1500.p
« Reply #16 on: February 12, 2016, 03:19:11 PM »
IF the wraithseer and Crimson Hunter or Swooping Hawk becomes something else to form at least a CAD it will work.
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Offline Spectral Arbor

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Re: Cheesy, bad or stupid? Old player back for more 1500.p
« Reply #17 on: February 12, 2016, 04:57:57 PM »
The point I'm trying to make is that the list as it stands is not battle-forged, so if the OP is hoping to take advantage of the formation bonuses, he [?] will need to make some adjustments.

Baiting comment removed in accordance with the forum rules - Iris.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2016, 05:21:36 PM by Irisado »

Offline Rx8Speed

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Re: Cheesy, bad or stupid? Old player back for more 1500.p
« Reply #18 on: February 12, 2016, 07:42:36 PM »
@Spectral Arbor You do NOT need to be battle forged to get formation bonuses. Says so right in the rulebook.

Offline Spectral Arbor

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Re: Cheesy, bad or stupid? Old player back for more 1500.p
« Reply #19 on: February 12, 2016, 08:23:27 PM »
@RX8 - My copy of the rulebook disagrees with you. In my copy of the rulebook, pg 117, top right corner...

"Of course, in an Unbound army, these models are not bound by any detachment restrictions and do not receive Command Benefits."

My copy of the rulebook also describes on pg 117, under "Battle-forged Armies",

"A player using the Battle-forged method must organize all the units they want to use into Detachments." meaning that if you aren't Battle-forged - by having every unit be part of a detachment - then you are Unbound, so you don't get Command Benefits.

But that's just my copy, of course. You may have a different version, with different rules. If you could please quote me the page from your rulebook that says differently, I'd be interested to read it.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2016, 08:30:37 PM by Spectral Arbor »

 


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