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Offline magenb

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GW Dice quality?
« on: October 15, 2017, 09:47:30 PM »
An interesting discussion came up at the LGS on how some dice sets roll higher or lower than average (apparently chessex are known for this). I found an old (2008) article on GW dice that were rolling below average, anyone know if this is still the case?




Offline Grand Master Lomandalis

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Re: GW Dice quality?
« Reply #1 on: October 15, 2017, 10:15:04 PM »
Unless the article tested the theory with tens of thousands of GW dice through tens of thousands of tests to get numbers to back that claim up, then I think it is pretty bogus.

Really, the idea of dice rolling above or below average based on who made them and their design is nothing but superstition unless steps have been taken to modify the weight.  Personally, I don't like the GW dice because they feel light and cheap, and my superstition is based around that being the reason they roll poorly for me.

But it doesn't matter what dice I use, they are always going to roll poorly.  I'm the kind of guy that makes a terminator armour save a 50% chance of success!
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Re: GW Dice quality?
« Reply #2 on: October 16, 2017, 12:50:02 AM »
If dice have bad enough quality control, they can roll poorly. I've seen d6s that have come with some board games that were definitely not fair dice--not intentionally, of course, just very poor craftsmanship. However, this is always pretty obvious, and I've never seen this problem with the boxes of D6s sold at my local game store. Assuming the dice are evenly weighted, and have square faces that are regular and even corners and so on, there's nothing to worry about. And this WILL be the case (that the dice are fine) absent very poor QC or someone intentionally meddling with them.

For what it's worth, there is probably some amount of deviation from exact randomness with regular dice given how most people roll them and their QC, but it's very small and probably not predictable. The only thing I could think of in a normal set of dice that would cause it to diverge from average rolls would be the fact that the pips on the dice are made by scooping out chunks of the dice. So, the side with six pips might be lighter than the side with 1 pip, for example, throwing off the center of gravity of the dice. Most dice fill in the pips with ink or paint though to counteract this, and I imagine the effect is relatively small.

Usually, I use a set pretty hefty sharp-edged dice with numerals rather than pips, because they are fun to throw and will be weighted evenly. But when playing my Orks, I use a bunch of small, light, non-fun-to-throw pip-dice because I sometimes need to roll 100 attacks at once and don't want to throw my 12 heavy dice 10 times. However, even if they're light and kind of boring to throw, the fact that i'm rolling 100 of them at once makes up for it.
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Offline vonny

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Re: GW Dice quality?
« Reply #3 on: October 16, 2017, 05:57:23 AM »
there was this one research years ago indeed, throwing 6 dice a thousand times, I believe, and what it basically found is that ALL dice except casino dice are slightly skewed towards lower numbers. 6000 rolls aren't really all that many, but I believe they had something like 30% of 1's, which seems significant enough to say with some certainty that there was a deviation.
Of course, it's been a while since I read that, so I have no idea if I remember it correctly or if it is even still viable these days.
I tend not to worry about it, as noone I know actually uses casino dice, and I can't be bothered to do so either, so... meh.
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Offline Wyddr

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Re: GW Dice quality?
« Reply #4 on: October 16, 2017, 10:50:17 AM »
I've been using exclusively Chessex dice for some years now and, if my batreps are any indication, my dice luck has been significantly worse than average.

I've decided to switch to using only dice with hard corners--none of this rounded corner nonsense. The hard corners evidently are good for fully randomizing rolls (or so I've heard). I'll report back with my findings.

Offline Grand Master Lomandalis

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Re: GW Dice quality?
« Reply #5 on: October 16, 2017, 02:38:54 PM »
I've decided to switch to using only dice with hard corners--none of this rounded corner nonsense. The hard corners evidently are good for fully randomizing rolls (or so I've heard). I'll report back with my findings.
I thought the same thing and made the change.  No noticeable difference.

The only dice I have ever really noticed a difference with are "monopoly dice."  The large, square edged dice with large pips.  My group figures that the reason they roll better is that if the pips are deep, there is a significant difference in weight between the 6 and 1, which translates into the 1 side being down more often, resulting in more 6 results.
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Offline magenb

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Re: GW Dice quality?
« Reply #6 on: October 16, 2017, 03:59:47 PM »
there was this one research years ago indeed, throwing 6 dice a thousand times, I believe, and what it basically found is that ALL dice except casino dice are slightly skewed towards lower numbers. 6000 rolls aren't really all that many, but I believe they had something like 30% of 1's, which seems significant enough to say with some certainty that there was a deviation.

The one I came across found effectively the same thing based on 38k worth of dice rolls.

I've been using exclusively Chessex dice for some years now and, if my batreps are any indication, my dice luck has been significantly worse than average.

Chessex seem to have a reputation for some dice sets that roll well below average (1+2) and some that are well above average (5+6). Apparantly it got so bad that one goup at the store has banned them lol.




The new dice sets from GW are priced fairly similarly to certified casino dice, was kind of interested to see if this was an quality improvement or just making huge profit margines.


Offline Lorizael

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Re: GW Dice quality?
« Reply #7 on: October 16, 2017, 05:17:06 PM »
I've bought, or at least used, every dice set GW has released over the past 8 years I think. There have been some odd ones, such as the 8th Ed. Warhammer 'bone' dice and the more recent wooden Sylvaneth dice, that were just terrible to roll.
The standard dice are just fine though. It's easy to have a bad game or two and then attribute that to a particular set of dice (my red ones always roll low..!). I currently use a set in each of the 6 colours of the GW 'Maelstrom' dice, and I really like them (apart from the aforementioned red ones!!).

The recent Deathguard dice are interesting. Very light, but seem to roll just fine. And they have squishy bits!

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Re: GW Dice quality?
« Reply #8 on: October 16, 2017, 07:32:40 PM »
I use GW and chessix dice. Usually roll about average.
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Offline Aurics Pride

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Re: GW Dice quality?
« Reply #9 on: October 18, 2017, 09:32:50 AM »
I've used all sorts of dice and to be honest I really don't tend to think about it too much!
I use GW dice mainly just because that's what I usually have handy. I do however have my Raven Guard dice which were a custom job from Chessex which probably do seem to roll hotter than usual, that may just be perception and the excitement of seeing the White Raven appearing!
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Re: GW Dice quality?
« Reply #10 on: November 8, 2017, 11:01:13 AM »
Never found any noticeable difference in any of the dice I use, recently picked up the GW Death Guard dice, they are a lot bouncier due to being half made of rubber but other than that still no discernible difference in results and the dice still betray me when I need them most!

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Re: GW Dice quality?
« Reply #11 on: November 19, 2017, 06:59:22 PM »
My dice are the GW ones from about ten years ago that came in a plastic box which itself was shaped like a die.  And they are awful.  They only seem to roll 1.  Again and again, and again and again and again.  I've put in for a long overdo upgrade which should be arriving soon.

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Re: GW Dice quality?
« Reply #12 on: November 28, 2017, 04:23:12 AM »
I got the new GW Nurgle Dice and although they look awesome they seem to roll very poorly. Whatever substance was used to create the infection on the inside seems to skew the dice to 1's. I used them for about a month and switched back to my old dice, everyone in our group that plays actually said that I had been rolling much worse since I got those dice
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Offline Blazinghand

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Re: GW Dice quality?
« Reply #13 on: November 28, 2017, 12:13:39 PM »
I think those dice are more for show than actually for rolling. They definitely don't look balanced
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Offline magenb

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Re: GW Dice quality?
« Reply #14 on: November 28, 2017, 03:09:26 PM »
I got the new GW Nurgle Dice and although they look awesome they seem to roll very poorly. Whatever substance was used to create the infection on the inside seems to skew the dice to 1's. I used them for about a month and switched back to my old dice, everyone in our group that plays actually said that I had been rolling much worse since I got those dice

yeah one guy was throwing 5's with redonkulous consistency with those dice every game over 6 weeks. Thankfully he's playing with difference dice set now.


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Re: GW Dice quality?
« Reply #15 on: December 22, 2017, 02:05:56 AM »
I've decided to switch to using only dice with hard corners--none of this rounded corner nonsense. The hard corners evidently are good for fully randomizing rolls (or so I've heard). I'll report back with my findings.

Maybe there is something to this as I notice that the new Blood and Dark Angles dice sets have been manufactured to be carefully weighted (White Dwarfs words) and have square corners.
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Offline Grand Master Lomandalis

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Re: GW Dice quality?
« Reply #16 on: December 22, 2017, 04:35:43 PM »
Maybe that explains the $10 price hike on the BA and DA dice over the last sets...

Still not worth it, though.
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Re: GW Dice quality?
« Reply #17 on: December 28, 2017, 08:05:20 PM »
So why do players seem to like the Squared edged dice.

I am not sure of the actual results, but it really bothers me when my opponent rolls a single dice and it hits the table and doesn't move because it is so flat it can land that way. This is even when the hand is shook well or high up....no obvious cheating.

I like dice that roll several times....and rounded edge dice always do that. My new 100 dice set seems to be rolling fairly poor for me despite a few hot rounds here and there.

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Re: GW Dice quality?
« Reply #18 on: December 28, 2017, 08:42:15 PM »
Squared edge dice, such as casino grade, are supposed to be bounced off a cushioned wall like a craps table. They're not supposed to be dropped or rolled short (a no-no in craps). A craps table wall is also textured to promoted random rolling rather than being flat. Rounded corners, when casinos throw them out, are supposedly better for flat static surfaces.
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Re: GW Dice quality?
« Reply #19 on: December 29, 2017, 08:42:11 AM »
I like square dice, as they don't bounce around as much on the table top, and have a less chance of bouncing off the table, or all over the place.
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