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Author Topic: [Proxying Thunder Hammers as Powerfists in tournys]  (Read 2391 times)

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Offline The Reborn

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Re: [Proxying Thunder Hammers as Powerfists in tournys]
« Reply #20 on: January 4, 2009, 07:14:56 AM »
Well, i'm not trying to be the WYSIWYG Policeman....honest, but the issue isn't to do with cables or anything else, it's more a confusing the opponent issue.  BC can do what he wants so long as the tourny organisors are happy for the conversion.  And more power to him.  I just don't see the prob with using a powerfist, as it is written nowhere that all salamanders marines have hammers....whatever their stats.
I think using a fist and adding tiny greenstuff blobs, flattened out to emulate scales could look good.  As mentioned before, corsair cloaks too and hammer symbols, icons and sigils to provide chapter-specific imagery ought to be sufficient, hadn't it, without confusing your opponent too much?

It's all good anyway, take care BC, guys.

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Offline therealpapasmurf

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Re: [Proxying Thunder Hammers as Powerfists in tournys]
« Reply #21 on: January 4, 2009, 08:05:09 AM »
but where does someone draw the line on wysiwyg?
i mean does that then mean that ALL space marines must have grenades and holsters modelled onto them?
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Offline Unleash Mayhem

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Re: [Proxying Thunder Hammers as Powerfists in tournys]
« Reply #22 on: January 4, 2009, 12:12:42 PM »
Please, no snowball arguments, this is one specific example, nowhere has anyone said that every single different item must be modeled perfectly on every character, otherwise space marine's largely wouldn't get bolt pistols or grenades.

I even think GW specifically mentioned something about grenades not needing to be modeled, and in the BRB doesn't the WYSIWYG paragraph say it doesn't matter about standard equipment or non-independent characters, I can't remember the exact wording.

Offline therealpapasmurf

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Re: [Proxying Thunder Hammers as Powerfists in tournys]
« Reply #23 on: January 4, 2009, 10:49:54 PM »
but i dont get the problem, sergeants cant take thunderhammers, so only noobs who dont know the marine codex will think that they are thunderhammers, just explain the difference at the start of the game and unless your opponent is a narc they probably wont mind
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Offline Mr.Peanut (Turtleproof)

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Re: [Proxying Thunder Hammers as Powerfists in tournys]
« Reply #24 on: January 5, 2009, 01:04:45 AM »
but i dont get the problem, sergeants cant take thunderhammers, so only noobs who dont know the marine codex will think that they are thunderhammers, just explain the difference at the start of the game and unless your opponent is a narc they probably wont mind

And everyone knows that Terminators can't take twin Assault Cannons anymore, or that Guardsmen don't have Multilasers.  The point is to have the model's equipment easily identifiable at a glance during a game.

The proxies should fly anywhere so long as enough effort is put into it that they're clearly different from Thunder Hammers.  Paint them differently, or better yet use smaller hammers as I said before.
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Offline YuenglingDragon

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Re: [Proxying Thunder Hammers as Powerfists in tournys]
« Reply #25 on: January 5, 2009, 01:44:35 AM »
but i dont get the problem, sergeants cant take thunderhammers, so only noobs who dont know the marine codex will think that they are thunderhammers, just explain the difference at the start of the game and unless your opponent is a narc they probably wont mind
Why should the onus be on the opponent?  If the OP wants to do this he ought to figure out a way to do it without just pussing out and leaving it up to the opponent.

You know that I can't have a squad of 10 all toting lascannons.  But you'd probably prefer that they held bolters like they're supposed to.
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Offline therealpapasmurf

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Re: [Proxying Thunder Hammers as Powerfists in tournys]
« Reply #26 on: January 5, 2009, 05:56:08 AM »
He just wants to use thunderhammers as powerfists in tournaments, not proxy whole squads with something entirely different, besides there is only minor differences between the fist and hammer, so if he cant do that does that mean guardsmen shouldnt have bayonets because they dont have ccw's, its just a small alteration

ps. im sorry if i have offended either of you
« Last Edit: January 5, 2009, 05:58:27 AM by therealpapasmurf »
"The clever combatant imposes his will on the enemy but does not allow the enemy's will to be imposed on him"

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Offline Lucky_Jackal

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Re: [Proxying Thunder Hammers as Powerfists in tournys]
« Reply #27 on: January 5, 2009, 11:07:43 AM »
He just wants to use thunder hammers as power fists in tournaments, not proxy whole squads with something entirely different, besides there is only minor differences between the fist and hammer, so if he cant do that does that mean guardsmen shouldn't have bayonets because they don't have ccw's, its just a small alteration

ps. im sorry if i have offended either of you

The thing is, it's not a small alteration. He is makeing one weapon look like a diffrent weapon. And all most people are saying is. As long as your "fist hammers" look different then your thunder hammers. Then there should be no foul.

I agree with Mr.Peanut, if you model the fist hammers or power hammers as being smaller so you can just say "everything that is a small hammer is a power fist. The Large Normal Thunder hammers are still thunder hammers." As long as visual you can look at the unit and KNOW what they got. Then it is WYSIWYG.

But if you got all these color coded hammers, or hammers with very small differences (Like the cables being trimmed off.) then it's NOT WYSIWYG, because visual they are still the outline of a thunder hammer, and it becomes a confusing mess for your opponent.

You should be able to have Power fists and Thunder hammers in the same units even, and still be able to tell them all apart by just a glance.

When we get into other things like Pistols/grenades on SM, or Bayonets on Guards men. This is still simple stuff that is totally different. Pistols and grenades ARE NOT special equipment. They are things that are army wide, that all infantry is the army has. They are standard gear. The Main rule book covers this.

You can not compare standard gear, to special weapons. Special weapons are special for a reason, and they NEED to be crystal clear who has what for your opponent.
« Last Edit: January 5, 2009, 11:09:04 AM by Lucky_Jackal »

Offline YuenglingDragon

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Re: [Proxying Thunder Hammers as Powerfists in tournys]
« Reply #28 on: January 5, 2009, 11:10:53 AM »
You're not offending us.  We just disagree about who should be responsible for what.  I think that in excepting the most loose playing environments, Space Marine players should be responsible for making wargear very clear.  It's not like we have any lack of bits.

You think that the opponent should be able to deduce or at least remember that they aren't.  I think that they could but shouldn't have to.  The game is only half playing.  The other half is modeling and painting.  If you don't have the modeling chops to show what you have then don't just slap on a different weapon.  A quarter of the replies have been, "not every Salamander carries a hammer."
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Offline Brother-Captain

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Re: [Proxying Thunder Hammers as Powerfists in tournys]
« Reply #29 on: January 5, 2009, 02:29:26 PM »
I know that salamanders have not given up using power fists for hammer, but I want MY army to use them for a fun conversion and fluff.  The whole point of this thread was to ask what your opinions on using the proxy in a competitive environment and the response they would recieve in a competitive environment.  Instead there has been a small tangent on wargear and WYSIWYG. As a conclusion to my question the majority consensus is that if they can be told apart from regular thunder hammer at a glance they can remain within WYSIWYG.

Now I am going to add onto this and ask if my conversion idea is enough of a difference to be playable.  I am going to be using the AoBR seargents so I will clip off the top of their chain sword at the hand, as well as clip off the shaft of the thunder hammer up to the power generator.  Then I will attach the shortened hammer to the seargent.  I will then run a power cable up his arm to his shoulder pad.  Another thing I am going to do is that all normal thunder hammers in my army will be modeled and painted as master crafted since I plan on using vulkan in higher point levels.  Would anyone object to the proxy with this conversion as well as all normal thunder hammers being quite different in appearance?


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Offline Raktra (So long, I guess)

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Re: [Proxying Thunder Hammers as Powerfists in tournys]
« Reply #30 on: January 5, 2009, 02:41:22 PM »
I would not at all. My Iron Warriors warsmith uses a huge lengthened one as a daemon weapon, seeing as we can't use them ourselves.

No-one has had a problem.

Offline YuenglingDragon

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Re: [Proxying Thunder Hammers as Powerfists in tournys]
« Reply #31 on: January 5, 2009, 02:53:12 PM »
I think a short handle, like real short like the one below, would be readily identifiable.  Choking up high on the handle will make it closer to the hand and therefor closer to being a fist.

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« Last Edit: January 6, 2009, 10:38:40 AM by YuenglingDragon »
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Offline therealpapasmurf

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Re: [Proxying Thunder Hammers as Powerfists in tournys]
« Reply #32 on: January 6, 2009, 12:09:45 AM »
cant you get those small hammers from like dwarf or chaos fantasy boxed sets? or even from empire warrior priests,
but i really like YuenglingDragon's idea on the sorta, blacksmith style hammers as power fists
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Offline Lucky_Jackal

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Re: [Proxying Thunder Hammers as Powerfists in tournys]
« Reply #33 on: January 6, 2009, 10:45:58 PM »
That sounds like it would be effective, and fly.


cant you get those small hammers from like dwarf or chaos fantasy boxed sets? or even from empire warrior priests,
but i really like YuenglingDragon's idea on the sorta, blacksmith style hammers as power fists

I agree, something like a black smiting hammer would look amazing and probably fit the fluff realy well. They would also be easier/cheaper to get a hold of, then nicking them off of termies. Since it sounds like your going to need quite a few in your army.

lol

A box of Plastic Dwarf Warrioirs has 16 guys (There are axes and hammers. I assume there would be enought hammers for each to have one) and is $35 (Less off your discount websight of choice.) This would give you more then enough hammers for your power fists. You may beable to find a sight that sells just the hammer bitz.

If you want to go all out. A Box of 5 metal Dwarf Hammerers is $22. You would need a Jeweler Saw/hobby saw and a pining vice. But the hammer head is beautiful. And would look amazing even using the normal Chain Saw blade. (Again, visually a shorter more fist like reach.)
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat1300253&prodId=prod780884

(And you would HAVE to pin, if you want that metal bit to stay put. I would not do it other wise.)

Some convertion ideas any way. What you sujest works, but you can't blam us for suggesting you go that "extra mile".
=)
« Last Edit: January 6, 2009, 10:48:11 PM by Lucky_Jackal »

Offline therealpapasmurf

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Re: [Proxying Thunder Hammers as Powerfists in tournys]
« Reply #34 on: January 7, 2009, 12:13:17 AM »
Of course you could make your own blacksmith hammers relatively easily out of various bit of spare plastic, modelling bricks, etc
and with the right amount of effort that would look good, but its probably best to go with hammers from the dwarf range,
oh and the hammerers box set is a great idea jackal
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Offline thecon36

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Re: [Proxying Thunder Hammers as Powerfists in tournys]
« Reply #35 on: January 17, 2009, 08:04:16 PM »
I'm going to go against the current and say that you should go for it. As long as they're slightly smaller and none of these faux hammers(fists) are mixed in units with the real hammers.  I mean as long as theyre obviously sergeants not anything else that may be able to take a real TH then go for it. really.

 


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