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Offline Cynec

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Wracks?
« on: November 27, 2011, 04:13:04 AM »
Hi there, long time 40k player, just starting out with DE and looking for some help. I actually took a break from the game for a while having sold my old Chaos army and am currently building a DE army to replace it.  Having done some cursory reading on the net it looks like trueborn and warrior venoms are the go-to elites and troops respectively, but I wanted to play a CC army and was therefore wondering what success people have had with wracks+haemys.

On paper, wracks with an acothyst and haemy with power weapons or agonizers seem like a relatively cheap and very adaptable unit that can kill anything from MC's to close combat tooled MEq as long as they get the charge. Again, on paper, they appear a better deal as an offensive unit than wyches due to their poisoned weapons and the FC that they gain from having a haemy attached which helps defeat the curse of S3 that all DE suffer from. Am I wrong?

In short, how effective is a CC army with wracks at its base and would one based on wyches work better, or should I abandon the idea wholesale?

Thanks for any help anyone can give.

Offline Ludo

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Re: Wracks?
« Reply #1 on: November 27, 2011, 08:28:51 AM »
To have the most success with your dark eldar you're going to need to take more than just one troop type.  Are you going for a pure wrack army for fluff reasons or will you have problems mixing the types? I think wracks are great for sitting on objectives but I wouldn't bring more than one or two squads.  Keep 1-3 squads of wyches min maxed and I would throw in a warrior squad or two. 

At 2K I run two wyches, two warrios, and one squad of wracks with two liquifiers and an acocyst with a scissorhands.

Now, that's just for an ideal and competitive build. I think wracks coming out of webway portals backed up by grotesques and talos/chronos would be a nightmare to face. Nothing would die!
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Offline ArchonBruce

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Re: Wracks?
« Reply #2 on: November 27, 2011, 10:49:48 AM »
I believe that wyches are the best troop choice for an all comers list.  They are immune to power weapons.  That being said, if you are facing a T3 opponent then Wracks shine.  I would suggest putting one wrack unit in your list for balance.
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Offline angel of death 007

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Re: Wracks?
« Reply #3 on: November 27, 2011, 11:17:40 AM »
The build I have been seeing them with the most is with a haemy that has a WWP.  Seems to be pretty durable.  I just purchased a squad of them because I like the models.

Not sure what the ideal size is?  I have been thinking of trying to field them in a squad of 5 in a venom. 

Offline Ludo

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Re: Wracks?
« Reply #4 on: November 27, 2011, 11:59:03 AM »
Putting then in a raider with a hammy will give you FC and allow you to threaten MEQ more readily I field 9 with 2x liquified (one on the hammy). The ability to reroll wounds is wonderful.
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Offline Cynec

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Re: Wracks?
« Reply #5 on: November 27, 2011, 05:06:16 PM »
Thanks for the input. I wasn't going to go all wracks for fluff reasons no, I am basically playing a kabal allied to a coven so both are in there, just with different color schemes. Actually my initial plan was something like 1x warriors with blaster and splinter cannon 1x wyches with agonizer and goodies (or bloodbrides perhaps since wyches seem like awful objective holders anyway) and 2x wracks with liquifier gun and joined by a haemy with arcane wargear because it's too much fun not to use even if it's usually wasted points. I will probably post a list here for review, I was just wondering if the idea itself was sound.

Offline Skari

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Re: Wracks?
« Reply #6 on: November 27, 2011, 05:49:39 PM »
I like wracks. They are quite handy and fill a nice hole within the DE list, higher T and FNP off the bat being able to shrug off volume fire, hurt tough opponents in cc... of course not best used against anything with PW.

I also use them as pain batteries... for 30pts its a cheaper way of getting a pain token than a heamy.

Offline Grumpy Kwi

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Re: Wracks?
« Reply #7 on: November 28, 2011, 12:42:55 PM »
 
In short, how effective is a CC army with wracks at its base and would one based on wyches work better, or should I abandon the idea wholesale?

 I've played true covens before with nothing but wracks as troops and though they are tough as nails against infantry, they just can't deal with armor at all. I would even say I like the wracks better than the wyches when it comes to going after enemy troops but they tend to stall against the more elite cc troops and armor. In other words, when I run all wracks I end up wishing I had some wyches instead.
 
 So now I run 2 squads of wracks and 2 squads of wyches and I like the balance. One is an awesome camper while the other is an awesome assault unit. However, if someone asks me which is best I would have to say the wyches are as they are capable of tackling anything in the game if you load them haywire grenades. The versatility of the wyches is fantastic and although I would not want to use them to camp an objective, they seem to take objectives very well (hence, I use wracks to sit on objectives while the wyches go out and clear them). I haven’t tried a list with all wyches yet but I can guess what it would be like – just not my style of play.
 
I do not have too much to say about warriors and all as they are not my play style either but I really do believe a mixed arms approach would be inherently better.
Just my opinion.

Offline Shadows Revenge

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Re: Wracks?
« Reply #8 on: November 28, 2011, 02:37:16 PM »
I like wracks alot. They are our version of marines, as their save + FNP = a 3+ save. They have a good punch, and will grind every troop option (except for Strike Squads) under their poison blades. Their problem is when they hit more elitey combat squads, and especially those carrying power weapons. Also I dont like the wording on their acyothist, as he loses an attack for taking a special weapon.

Normally I run two squads, one as an assaulty counter-attack unit in my venom spam list (9 in a raider w/ liquifier and an acoythist w/ PW, with a haemie w/ liquifer and PW) as pretty much whatever I need off an objective is something easily moved. The other in in a venom to give me another flamer where I need it. I also use them in my WWP lists as portal carriers and as an assault unit. They really do their job, and have a different role than wyches (which is to tie things up and slaughter GEQ wholesale.)

Offline Cynec

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Re: Wracks?
« Reply #9 on: November 28, 2011, 04:32:37 PM »
Yes, I just noticed that giving an Acothyst a special weapon leaves him with two mismatched special weapons that cause him to lose an attack. Why oh why couldn't GW just give them 1 poisoned weapon and 1 CCW. Ugh.

Anyway, I'm glad the units are viable, especially since I had already bought, built, and partially painted 2 boxes worth, suffering through the unnatural horrors of finecast to do it. And yes, I would never put wracks in against terminators or the like unless I was really desperate. That's what shooting and Incubi are for.

That said I would think that they would be quite effective against any power armored unit as long as they don't have FnP or are joined by an HQ and as long as the Wracks charge because of the I5 they get from their and their haemy's pain tokens. Quick napkin math is that 9 wracks with a power weapon weapon Aco and Haemy should kill ~4.75 MEQ on the charge. Which is quite a lot of points worth of tooled up marines that never get to strike back.

 


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