Topic: Brief Harlequin Tactica

[Rexftw]

This is a quick post to throw out some of the ways that I have found to use harlequins.  Feel free to post your constructive tactics as well .

Upgrades:
Shadowseer:
This guy is REQUIRED unless you are deploying from a falcon.  He gives you Plasma Grenades and the sweet trademark harlequin ability Veil of Tears(VoT)!

Troupe Master:
He kills more than another harlequin for about the same points in most cases (vs MeQ).  He also only takes 1 slot in a falcon (giving your 6 units more punch!). Also makes a wopping Ld 10 unit!  This guy is good choice in almost every case IMO!  (See number crunching agt the end)

Death Jester:
This is a very cheap upgrade and reduces the model’s melee attacks by 1 (no pistol + ccw).  In most cases he is not worth taking IMHO. 

Kisses:
REQUIRED!  They can be tacked on to the ‘special’ characters, although the troupe master is better with a power weapon.  You may as well charge with guardsmen if you don’t take these.

Fusion Pistols:
Good after you hit and run… behind a leman russ!

Hit and Run

With this ability you basicaly begin to control the assault and shooting phase of your opponent.  once engaged your harlies are basically free to pick and choose which units to assault,  free to avoid many nasty coutner aswsaults,  usually able to avoid getting cought in the oppen, and able to maintain mobility while assaulting.

Strengths:
Ridiculous # of rending attacks!?
VoT
Hit and Run!!!!

Weaknesses:
Fast units with superior firepower.  IE Warpspiders, land speeders.
Transports that can drive up and deploy 10 marines to mow you down.
Deep Striking enemies.



Roles:
Defensive Counter Assault:
Hide them behind the cover your shooty units are in.  Then assault the enemy once he engages your shooty units!  Very effective, your enemy never has a chance to shoot your squishy units before he gets crushed by their awesome number of rending attacks at I7.  There may be better choices for this, however.  IE Avatar!

Offensive counter assault:
Use them to fleet behind a wave serpent full of troups that are vulnerable to assault (ie fire dragons or avengers).  When they inevitably get charged, the harlies are there to bail them out.  If the enemy chooses to stand and shoot he must choose between fire dragons or harlequins- a difficult choice indeed.

In a Falcon:

6 Harlies: shadowseer and 6 kisses (162) in Falcon (185) work incredibly well if you time your deployment well and set-up half way decent. On average the squds kills 5 Marines a turn (turn 3,4, 5, & 6 for about 20 Marines or 300+pts and that doesn't include anything the Falcon can bag.) as you will often need a bit of time to set them in position. The key is to assault (your turn), withdraw (enemy turn), and repeat as often as you can. I focus on large squads of marines first as you don't want to kill them all and left in the open.

“Invincible” Scoring Unit
You can simply stand out in the open with a shadow seer and hold an objective.

“Cloaked” Fire support
Take the Reaper FL and the Death Jester and hide them with VoT at 24”.  I guess it could work…


Other stuff to compliment your harlies!:
Doom really helps out with their S3/4 attacks and Fortune with their terrible (invulnerable!) saves.

Some Hard Counters:
Fury of the Ancients, Inquistor + Null rod + shooty unit, Vibrocannons, Swooping Hawk Grenade packs, Gauss flux arcs, Ordinance scattering onto them, Preliminary bombardment, Vindicare Assassin, Hammer of the Witches, Sister's SoF and Templar's vow (Half Past yellow)
Some Complimentary Units!

Pathfinders: If you set them in decent cover, then thats all that the enemy can shoot at and you are likely to stick around for a while. All the time the harlies sit and wait for the enemy to get closer.

Dire Avengers: A definite "tar pit" capable unit. Shooting at a decent range, can keep up quite well, and are good enough in close combat to hold their own until harlies can get there.

Warp Spiders: They're fast enough to easily weaken any threatening unit before they can get to your harlequins.

Number Crunching
1 Harlequins w/ kiss on the charge   
               Kills/Turn   Kills/Points*100
Marines             1.00   4.55
Terminators   0.61   2.78
Scouts             1.17   5.30
Guardsmen   1.56   7.07
A10 Veh            0.19   0.84
A12 Veh            0.17   0.76
A14 Veh            0.09   0.42


Troupe Master on the charge   

             Kills/Turn   Kills/Points*100
Marines            1.67        4.39
Terminators    1.11      2.92
Scouts              1.67        4.39
Guardsmen   2.22     5.85
A10 Veh            0.09      0.24
A12 Veh            0.00      0.00
A14 Veh            0.00      0.00


Death Jester Shooting his gun!      
   Kills/Turn   Kills/Points
Marines   0.56   1.98
Terminators   0.28   0.99
Scouts   0.83   2.98
Guardsmen   1.67   5.95
A10 Veh   0.28   0.99
A12 Veh   0.06   0.20
A14 Veh   0.00   0.00
      


1 banshee charging   
   Kills/Turn   Kills/Points
Marines   0.50   3.13
Terminators   0.33   2.08
Scouts   0.50   3.13
Guardsmen   0.75   4.69
A10 Veh   0.00   0.00
A12 Veh   0.00   0.00
A14 Veh   0.00   0.00





Thanks for taking the time to read my brief article.  I look forward to seeing how you use your Harlequins!

[Mad Dok Brown]

It's good to see a guide to Harlies, especially after my last game with them.

I see great things in the future for this thread.

[Halfpast_Yellow]

Good post. I like how you don't skip over the Fusion pistols. Some things I would add are that it is nice to have a Death Jester when you are using your Harlequins as counter assault. Extra BS4 Heavy Weapon for your gunline.

I would also make a mention of the various sundry powers, wargear and ordinance that can get around the Harlequins VoT check.

eg. Fury of the Ancients, Inquistor + Null rod + shooty unit, Vibrocannons, Swooping Hawk Grenade packs, Gauss flux arcs, Ordinance scattering onto them, Preliminary bombardment, Vindicare Assassin, Hammer of the Witches, Sister's SoF and Templar's vow.

[Rexftw]

eg. Fury of the Ancients, Inquistor + Null rod + shooty unit, Vibrocannons, Swooping Hawk Grenade packs, Gauss flux arcs, Ordinance scattering onto them, Preliminary bombardment, Vindicare Assassin, Hammer of the Witches, Sister's SoF and Templar's vow.

Nice, I have never run into any of that though   Although most of it seems pretty nasty to harlies!

[tegeus-Cromis]

rexftw:

Kisses:
REQUIRED!  They can be tacked on to the ‘special’ characters

Not Death Jesters, sadly.

Fusion Pistols:
Good after you hit and run… behind a leman russ!

Ooh, a melta weapon is good for shooting at tanks? You don't say!

Weaknesses:
Fast units with superior firepower.  IE Warpspiders, land speeders.
Transports that can drive up and deploy 10 marines to mow you down.
Deep Striking enemies.

So I guess Harlies in a Falcon (the way most use them) have no weaknesses, right?

Offensive counter assault:
Use them to fleet behind a wave serpent full of troups that are vulnerable to assault (ie fire dragons or avengers).  When they inevitably get charged, the harlies are there to bail them out.

Fire Dragons? Get charged? In my experience, they usually just shoot them to death. Avengers, meanwhile, are usually kitted out to tie things up in CC. They, too, will get shot to death, not charged.

If the enemy chooses to stand and shoot he must choose between fire dragons or harlequins- a difficult choice indeed.

Uh, what? It's the easiest choice in the world, assuming you're close enough to reliably pass the VoT test.

In a Falcon:
Duh.  I don’t like using them like this…  Banshees get the job done just as well for less points IMHO.

10 Banshees cost a massive 5 points less than 6 Harlies with a Shadowseer and Kisses. Add in the Exarch so many people feel compelled to use (I have no idea why) and you'll find the Banshees are actually more expensive.

As for getting the job done just as well, sure--if you're fighting MEqs. What if you're facing Plague Marines or TMCs?

“Cloaked” Fire support
Take the Reaper FL and the Death Jester and hide them with VoT at 24”.  I guess it could work…

You guess? Maybe you should try it first (or at least crunch the points, which are quite ridiculous for what you're getting).

Some Hard Counters:
Fury of the Ancients, Inquistor + Null rod + shooty unit, Vibrocannons, Swooping Hawk Grenade packs, Gauss flux arcs, Ordinance scattering onto them, Preliminary bombardment, Vindicare Assassin, Hammer of the Witches, Sister's SoF and Templar's vow (Half Past yellow)

So again, putting them in a Falcon removes pretty much all their weaknesses? Wow, I can sure see why you don't like using one.

Try these instead:

Daemons.
Wyches.
Howling Banshees.

[Naikee]

tegeus, he is trying to help all those people who find it hard to field harlequins. i think this is a great tactica. really useful.

i think another section which is very sneaky is to add an IC to the harlie squad like an autarch or phoenix lord so that they to benefit from the veil of tears power. great fun 

[Huntmaster]

Thanx for that idea Naikee. Poor like Karadaras in the Clown Posse from hell with a lovely 8 powerfist attacks on the charge and very hard to target him. Pure Brilliance. Poor, Poor Imperial Guard Tanks Hee hee hee hee. 

[Autarch Kalweth]

rexftw:

Kisses:
REQUIRED!  They can be tacked on to the ‘special’ characters

Not Death Jesters, sadly.

Fusion Pistols:
Good after you hit and run… behind a leman russ!

Ooh, a melta weapon is good for shooting at tanks? You don't say!

Weaknesses:
Fast units with superior firepower.  IE Warpspiders, land speeders.
Transports that can drive up and deploy 10 marines to mow you down.
Deep Striking enemies.

So I guess Harlies in a Falcon (the way most use them) have no weaknesses, right?

Offensive counter assault:
Use them to fleet behind a wave serpent full of troups that are vulnerable to assault (ie fire dragons or avengers).  When they inevitably get charged, the harlies are there to bail them out.

Fire Dragons? Get charged? In my experience, they usually just shoot them to death. Avengers, meanwhile, are usually kitted out to tie things up in CC. They, too, will get shot to death, not charged.

If the enemy chooses to stand and shoot he must choose between fire dragons or harlequins- a difficult choice indeed.

Uh, what? It's the easiest choice in the world, assuming you're close enough to reliably pass the VoT test.

In a Falcon:
Duh.  I don’t like using them like this…  Banshees get the job done just as well for less points IMHO.

10 Banshees cost a massive 5 points less than 6 Harlies with a Shadowseer and Kisses. Add in the Exarch so many people feel compelled to use (I have no idea why) and you'll find the Banshees are actually more expensive.

As for getting the job done just as well, sure--if you're fighting MEqs. What if you're facing Plague Marines or TMCs?

“Cloaked” Fire support
Take the Reaper FL and the Death Jester and hide them with VoT at 24”.  I guess it could work…

You guess? Maybe you should try it first (or at least crunch the points, which are quite ridiculous for what you're getting).

Some Hard Counters:
Fury of the Ancients, Inquistor + Null rod + shooty unit, Vibrocannons, Swooping Hawk Grenade packs, Gauss flux arcs, Ordinance scattering onto them, Preliminary bombardment, Vindicare Assassin, Hammer of the Witches, Sister's SoF and Templar's vow (Half Past yellow)

So again, putting them in a Falcon removes pretty much all their weaknesses? Wow, I can sure see why you don't like using one.

Try these instead:

Daemons.
Wyches.
Howling Banshees.

refering to the comments in order.

1. one of the 2 only constructive criticisms

2. FLAME SHIELD ON

3. I would say Harlies in a falcon have a right to fear deepstriking enemies and fast enemies, serveal rear armor shots will drop the falcon I have done this myself.

4.  hmm would you rather shoot a unit and not mop them up because of bad luck and they return fire next turn or would you rather charge and tie them up?  with his tactica he covers both eventualities which is a good thing.

5.  it is actually a very hard choice if you don't shoot the dragons your squad will quickly become a melted pile of goo then we have the obvious reason if they don't shoot the harlies.  Either way the eldar player wins.

6.  Perhaps he meant banshees in a falcon which is a lot less expensive then harlies in a falcon especially if you give then a troupe master and shadowseer.  Banshee's in a falcon work just fine I've tried it in experimenting and I believe rexftw is correct.

7.  another flame

8. hmm vibro cannons still work, grenade pack can work but low success rate, Guass flux arc also still works, scatter works, Vindicare assassins work.  In fact setting up a bait squad for the harlies to assault and then subsequently leave them open to any of their weaknesses

9.  the other constructive criticism, wyches can work, banshees certainly work, daemons it really depends on which type.

so in summary, don't lash out at him especially if you are wrong give out constructive criticism not negative comments, that doesn't help a tactic.

@rexftw nice job

[moc065]

Nice start for the Tactica there REXFTW. Here are some numbers, comments, etc... from my own recent playing experience with both Harlies and Banshees.

6 Harlies: shadowseer and 6 kisses (162) in Falcon (185) work incredibly well if you time your deployment well and set-up half way decent. On average the squds kills 5 Marines a turn (turn 3,4, 5, & 6 for about 20 Marines or 300+pts and that doesn't include anything the Falcon can bag.) as you will often need a bit of time to set them in position. The key is to assault (your turn), withdraw (enemy turn), and repeat as often as you can. I focus on large squads of marines first as you don't want to kill them all and left in the open.

I also run a squad of 6 Banshees: executioner Exarch (118) in a Falcon (185) and they too work incredibly well. I use this squad to hit what the Harlies withdraw from (5 or less figures in most cases). And in general they do as well as the Harlies thrughout the game; but, only because there are very few (if any) return attacks (thanks to the Harlies softening the squad up first). Now some people will say that the Banshees are 42 pts less than the Harlies and do the same job; but, remember if those Banshees hit a full Marine squad, they would not survive to meet another, where as the Harlies will.

I have yet to need the Troupe Masters LD, so I don't think he is a neccesity if your running them in the army type which I am using... I have used the Death Jester though and his "Pinning" cannon can set the stage your subsequent Harlie rushes, so I would not discount him so easily.

The VoT is awesome.... many opponents just shoot other things after they fail a test against it, so I really like it. But another and probably more important reason to always take the Shadowseer is the Hallacagyn Grenades (entire units benefits from Plasma grenades),,, since you will often have to rush them into squads that are in cover (Devastators, etc)....

I think you should really re-think your Falcon comment though, as having hte ride there to protect those Harlies while they get across the table can make or break many an army.

PS... You can overemphasize the Harlequin Invulnerable (crap) Save enough... The key is getting into CC with the bulk of the squad, and hitting so hard (kisses) that there are few if any retrun attacks.

Cheers and Happy Gaming.

[Mad Dok Brown]

The Phoenix Lord led Harlequin squad has left me utterly intrigued. Maugan Ra pinning things will staying just out of range of most conventional weapons. Karandras infiltrating a squad of Harlies deep into enemy territory. I guess you could use Barrahoth, although Im not sure on the ruling with Skyleap and Intercept on Harlies. Fuegan to give you that little extra tank hunting power. And since all lords have fleet, you dont have to worry about them slowing you down.

[Autarch Kalweth]

unfortunately the aspect abilities are only conferred onto aspects and autarchs so no skyleaping harlies, no infiltrating harlies no intercept no tank hunter and no whatever else.  I think that one or 2 of the PLs might have a conferable ability but I'm not sure.

[mikesusername]

nice post!

harlequins have quickly become my favorite unit in the eldar codex.

when i first started using them the were uber enough on thier own, kind of like wraithlords in 3rd, that they didn't need too much brains to use.  which is nice for once (as an eldar player).

then wehn my friends leared how to kill them i really started to like them... ?  seriosly.  wehne my friends startted feilding more mobile armies to deal with the harlies i was forced tot support them more.  and thats when they really started to kick ass.  

imo the 3 main strenghs of harlies are the following

1. rediculous cc punch that basically trumps all other cc units save perhaps the ctan.  the rending combitned with the 4 attacks combinted wiht initive 7 and ignore cover grenades makes them the best assault unit in the game in my oppinion.

2.  rediculous mobility, while they may not have the garunteed 12 inch movemnt of jetpackers they do have the ability to ignor terrrain,  this is huge imo.  the further fleet of foot is handy too.

3.  withdraw!!!  with this ability you basicaly begin to control the assault and shooting phase of your opponent.  once engaged your harlies are basically free to pick and choose which units to assault,  free to avoid many nasty coutner aswsaults,  usually able to avoid getting cought in the oppen, and able to maintain mobility while assaulting.


number 3 is where i'd like to focus, as the rest are pretty ovbious.  a big problem with allot of assault units is you cant really say when they'll be finished, wiht harlies you say when.  if a combat is just getting messy, you can disengage and move deeper into his army.

futhermore i've foudn pairing harlies with avengers spiders and hawks works wonders.  for one these support units tend to get rid of nasty speeders and rapid fire rino's or other fast moving shooters (marine bikers, destroyers, whatever)  and also, especially in the case of avengers garuntee some serios retrebution to any unit that does manage to penetrate their support fire bubble and nuke the harlies.    plus all these units can surve as an assault bumper, holding out 1 turn for the harlies to arrive, the spiders being particulalry good at this.

if your harlis run ito something that they can hurt but not kill in one turn,  i imedialty think of a 30 strong ork mob, having spiders avengers or hawks along for the ride is sublime.

in your turn you assault, kill your kill zone,  not too hard as a halie i think kills slightly over 1 ork per halie on the charge.  you then can disengage if you fee lucky, or sick around.  if you do disengage a mob like this may not be able to catch you, especially if you did clear the kill zone, and is now faced with advancing into your avengers.  alternativly you stick it out, take some casualties in his assault phase and then disengage.

in your turn you are then freee to tripple shoot the squad with your avengers and then assault them again, if anything remains.


i once had a battle vs nids.  my avatar and halries had got stuck in with a tyrant and some warriors, and some random garbage.  the avatar is a prefect complemetn to the halris in this situaiton.  with disengaged the avatar remained locked in combat at the end of my assaut phase, bu the harlies disegaged.  not only did this let me get +1 initibe and attack again it allso let me pick and choose which area of the rather large assault i wanted to hit.  instead of my harlie attacks being wasted against a target i didn't like i was able to direct all of my attacks against single units on the next assault.


another great benefit to halies comes from eldrad.  with forutne that 5+ save, or perhaps a 4+ cover save, becomes way better.  with fortune your looking at pretty good odds of survival even if you do run up against a deepstrike termie squad, a wirlwind or soemthing of that nature.


basiclay the reason i like harlies is they are a center peice unit that provides punch, but also is able to double as a support unit as well.  plus at 250 ish points for a squad it is actually going to be a comparable point trade with most of its weaknesses provided you have support nearby.

[Murkglow]

I would just like to add my support to two main points:

1) I would have to agree with Moco65 that the Troop Master's LD bonus seems unnecissary, and in my opinion for most lists he isn't normally worth his points.  A normal Harlequin with kiss is almost half the cost for nearly the same effect.  Just something to consider.

2) I would agree with Halfpast_Yellow on the Death Jester.  If you're going to run them on foot, a Jester will often be well worth his points for extra shooting and any pinning he might cause.  His reduced HtH ability is less of an issue here because squad size isn't as restricted as it is on a Falcon.  I think he is well worth it for the right list.

Still, I appreciate the effort a "Tactica" can take to produce and I would like to also add my thanks to Rexftw for taking the time.

~Murkglow

[Rexftw]

NP to everyone who sent a thanks!!

I added a number crunching section to the end that should answer alot of questions!  The odds of the Death Jester actually killing anything without a 4+ or worse save is pretty poor.  Nids and orcs often cant be pinned so this leaves guard which he would probably be pretty good against! 

You can also see the troupe master gets 1.5 marine heads on the charge and a Harlie with a kiss gets 1. 

[Errgin]

I have found Harlequins to be one of the highlights in the new codex.  I have used them to grab objectives.  Their extraordinary mobility makes them an ideal unit for missions requiring movement.  Just this weekend I used them to lay waste to a gene stealer squad and to get some bonus points in a recon mission.  The death jester has come in handy after they get to their objective and annihilate what is there.  I feel that extra little ability to reach out and touch someone is worth the points. 

[Murkglow]

You can also see the troupe master gets 1.5 marine heads on the charge and a Harlie with a kiss gets 1. 

Ah, but you should also notice that, in every section except vs Terminators, he has worse kills/points then a Harlequin w/kiss (he would also do worse then a normal Harlequin vs tougher opponents).  This was the whole point of what we were saying before.  No one doubts that the Troup Master kills better then a normal Harlequin, that goes without saying.  What we were saying is that, point for point, his increases are not equal to the points you spend on them (that and the fact six Harlequins kill enough Marines on their own for most purposes).

That's not to say I dislike the Troup Master or anything, and if the points are not much of an issue, then, by all means, take him.  He does make them hit a bit harder.  However, if points are tight, then he would be one of the cuts that hurt least for an average list. IMO

~Murkglow

[Rexftw]

Agreed,

But he does add a little more punch to a 6 man squad in a falcon!

[moc065]

Thank-you for modifying the first post there REXFTW.... I like the additions; but, do have another suggestion. Grab the info that people have put here (to compliment your good start) and add it to the initial post as well. Hopefully that way we could actually get a Harlequin Tactica that pretty well covers it all.

Things that I think you should add are:
-- VoT and why it is so usefull (full discription as many people still don't get it), as well as why certain things are not effected by it.
-- mikesusername's rundown on the importance of Withdraw, along with some notes on when to or not to use it.
-- Hell, maybe just expand what is already there to incompass a few more of the thoughts people posted.

Well done again..... CaHG

[Lord Ulthanash]

this is gonna sound like blasphemy in this topic but I have never used harlequins in all of my long years playing 40k. Also, which is even worse, I havent picked up the new models yet or have read their rules in the new codex. Anyway I am picking them up this weekend and it has given me some great ideas and hopefully they wont get destroyed to quickly now.

[ryanscav]

its about time someone started a good harlie tactica!

I think that the harlequins are easily what other armies fear the most, and I always play off of that factor.

How about a section on units that support harlies well, and how to use them for support?

Pathfinders: If you set them in decent cover, then thats all that the enemy can shoot at and you are likely to stick around for a while. All the time the harlies sit and wait for the enemy to get closer.

Dire Avengers: A definite "tar pit" capable unit. Shooting at a decent range, can keep up quite well, and are good enough in close combat to hold their own until harlies can get there.

Warp Spiders: They're fast enough to easily weaken any threatening unit before they can get to your harlequins.

Any heavy unit really, because the enemy will be shot at without having anything to shoot at except your heavy units forcing them to come closer and when they do you maneuver the harlequins to intercept them.

and i was wondering, waht about sticking prince yriel with them? holy crap!


feel free to add or edit this for the actual tactica