Topic: jetbike tactics

[Lord Ulthanash]

I have started another eldar craftworld to join my Iyanden and Ulthwe armies, and this time its(drumroll please)....Saim Hann! so I need help with jetbike tactics, as I have never used them before. Also help with jetbike seers and warlocks, as well as shining spears and vypers would be appreciated.

[Algavinn of the Many Paths]

A more specific question would be best.  Conglomerations of jetbike tactics can be found probably in frequently asked questions, somewhere on this page or last of threads, or in the Eldar Tactics article section, please check those first.  We have a number of jetbike specialists here but if you're just looking for "what is your favorite jetbike tactic," or "how do you use your jetbikes?"  are more ideal questions.

I personally usually take one or two squads of 3-6 jetbikes in my list to smash into the flanks of my IG opponent to keep him from redeploying as my 3-4 transports smash into his front lines. 

In my next list i have two squads, a 6 man with an autarch (go go plasma grenades!) to help back up my dire avengers, any other squad that needs it, or jump over the fray and go for his HQ squad (damn standard bearer!).  This list also fronts a 3 man warlock squad with destructor warlock.  It may not appear to have a whole lot of longevity, but if it does nothing it likely means my 4 transports, vyper, and other jetbike squad is getting off scott free.  If it contacts the enemy, its going to create a swuath of charred bloody masses.

Against my MEQ opponent i tend to use the jetbikes to lure his units away from each other, where they are torn appart by my banshees or harlequins, sitting a neglectful 12" away.

[theriddles]

there are a couple of different ways to play jetbikes. moc is the real knowledge on this subject but as i'm running all jetbikes atm i'll give it a bash.

there are two ways to run any army and a jetbike army is the same - close combat or shooty.
if you are shooty:
- cheap and cheerful jetbike squads with shuricannons can jump out of cover, fire 6 s6 shots and pop back into cover unseen. this is very handy and clocks in at just over 150 points per squad.
- vypers are a must to carry your heavier weaponry, though they are lightly armoured, so high range weapons are best. i would personally go with missile launcher over brightlance for this reason.
- shining spears are not spectacularly useful in a shooting jetbike army, but they are a nice rapid reaction shock troop when needed.
- falcons and fireprisms as gun boats are good, but can be shaken very easily, leaving them practically useless, unless you are good with your tank shocking (but with their range, why would you want to?)
- the best anti tank in a jetbike army, and very nearly the codex, is a jetbiked farseer. closely followed by the jetbiked warlock. farseer with singing spear is a lascannon hitting on 2 at 12". with a 12" move and turoboosting, this guyu can earn back his points with ease. warlocks are almost as good but lack a little in the shooting (singing spear on 3s). against stationary tanks in cc, all will get 3 attacks auto hitting and s9. this should pop even the hardiest of armour.
- autarch on a jetbike with a fusion gun and laser lance is also an absolute bane for tanks.

if you are close combat:
- a jetbiked eldar has the survivability of a marine in close combat. guardian jetbikes can be used to block lines of sight to autarch and shining spear units hitting and withdrawing out of combat as well as keeping the enemy where you want them.
- for this to work, power weapon/fist wielding models must be taken care of. this can either be done with good placement of shining spears/autarch to make sure the offending model is in your kill zone or can be done with the everlovin' farseer on a jetbike with mind war. tis a beauty to be sure.
- shining spears are the workhorses of a close combat jetbike army. two squads kitted out with exarch and withdraw popping in and out of combats for 6 turns is a lot of dead stuff.
- again anti tank can be done at close range by farseer/warlock/autarch at close range on jetbikes. warlocks in your squads with enhance make them that much more survivable (they are usually striking first at i5 and hitting on 4s with ws4)

[Hypopheralcus]

You can also fortune 3 jetbikes and turboboost them right in front of your opponent to use them as a bait.

[Lord Ulthanash]

thanks for the help so far guys. As Algavinn asked for a more specific question I should be asking how do you use you jetbikes. Also, in a squad of 6 jetbikes, should I take 2 shuriken cannons? is the 1 shuricannon to 2 shuriken catupults a good ratio to use?

[Mr.Peanut (Turtleproof)]

Long story, short, be elusive with them and keep them out of combat.  Use the Eldar Jetbike rule to move into the open, shoot, and then move back behind Cover.  Don't be afraid to Turboboost if you think that you can get a shot at rear armor in the coming turns.  The exception to keeping them out of Assault is if they're accompanied by a Jetbike Autarch.  They're cheaper than Assault Marines (or Shining Spears for that matter) but as durable, so it's not so bad to use them as ablative wounds, they can be taken in larger squads too.

[robdark22]

so in short why not run about 18 to 24 in an army so that you more ability to play the field were you run you can and make him pay for the same realestae twice in the game when he have to do something against you to stay up and at the pace of the game as you set up and try making him play to your game play not his

[Algavinn of the Many Paths]

As cammy mentioned, and i dont know if i did, they are an excellent unit to get a rear shot at vehicles with their massed str 4 and 6 weaponry.  I like using them to jump over my opponents lines while my aspect warriors have them in CC, and take down their vehicles.  (in my next list this is augmented by an autarch with haywire grenades and a fusion gun).

And again, as others have mentioned, it does make for a good lure/fire base to use the eldar jetbike movement rule to simulate the CTM of old, jump shooting.  It can be frustrating enough to cause the enemy to chase them down, even if they arent causing many casualties.


Aye, i'm hoping moc comes along, as he is our resident jetbike autarch.  The jetbikes are a complex and useful unit, and i'm damned happy they lowered the points cost and changed their catagory to make them viable.

[bird_bath]

a very nice thread indeed. I do hope moc comes along and gives us a ocean of knowledge.

[Defenestratus]

The only way I'll take Shining Spears is with a fortuning farseer to give them that 3+ inv reroll on the first turn.  Their squad size is SO small that taking one or two casualties causes them a morale test, which I have an uncanny ability to fail.

I haven't used guardian jetbikes all that often.  I probably should use more of them.

[moc065]

Sorry I'm slow these days; but I will try to impart a little bit of my knowledge...

First off. I am not the Jetbike God.... I am the Wild Rider Chief, so bear in mind that my tactics are generally in context to a Saim-Hann style army and that the rest of your army definately should determine some of your tactics in regard to Jetbikes... * As mentioned above by TheRiddles *.

Here is a Quote from the Saim-Hann Project about Jetbikes.

Jetbike Squadrons:
     Eldar anti-gravitic technology is a source of constant amazement and jealousy to the Adeptus Mechanicus. It is this that enables the Eldar to create anti-grav vehicles ranging from the huge Scorpion super heavy tanks down to the one-man Jetbikes. Through subtle manipulation of the gravity field, Jetbikes combine high speed with incredible maneuverability, making them an ideal craft for launching rapid hit-and-run style attacks against the enemy. (1)
     Wow, Jetbikes as a Troop choice, what a bonus to us Saim-Hann players, you can now take multiple squads of Jetbikes without limiting your Fast Attack options. Along with this, the new Jetbikes are just as good as they were in the 3rd Edition; but, they cost substantially less, and the now come in squads of 3-12. If you choose to have a Jetbike Warlock added to the unit, he no longer is removed from the Farseer’s Retinue and thus, you can actually have a Jetbike Warlock without using the Farseer option (makes room for an Autarch/etc. if you so desire). Jetbikes can still take 1 Shuri-cannon upgrade for every 3 Jetbikes; but even this option is cheaper.
     Thus I suggest that Jetbikes be the mainstay troop choice for Saim-Hann armies (or any fast army). Jetbikes can be configured in various manners, Shooty, Close Combat, or Versatile:
Shooty: they should always be taken in multiples of three to maximize the Shuri-cannon option and normally 3-9 Jetbikes is appropriate for unit size, and the addition of a Jetbike Warlock with Singing Spear can be good for some added punch; but is not always necessary. The unit should be set up behind cover whenever possible and it should employ the Jetbike Slide (move-shoot-hide) to systematically remove priority threats.
Close Combat: these units should be from 6-12 Jetbikes in size and the addition of a Jetbike Warlock with Enhance (for added CC punch) can often be the difference between an average and a good assault squad. Again, the unit should be set up behind cover is possible, and the use of “Turbo” to gain an invulnerable save and close in on the enemy is a very useful tactic, as casualty conservation is critical to ensuring the maximum potential when close combat is engaged. 
Versatile: these units should be set up in multiples of 3 to maximize the Shuri-cannon option, and have a Jetbike Warlock added to ensure added CC ability. If the unit is joined by a “Fortune” Farseer on Jetbike, they will gain even more resilience and a touch of added HtH capability as the Witchblades/Singing Spears can also remove enemy vehicles.
     My personal favourite configuration is the Versitile unit with 6 Jetbikes, 2 Shuri-cannons, an Enhanced Warlock and a Fortune Farseer. I then use the Jetbike Slide combined with Mobile Sniper tactics for the early game and go into CC or grab Mission Objectives in the late game.

For a more in detail rundown, I suggest that you visit my Website, or ask specific questions on how to use a certain Jetbike configuration with regard to the rest of your army or specific units, or even specific enemies.

Cheers and Happy Gaming.

[ranger_55]

Moc seems to have summed everythign up already but...

I don't play a jetbike army but I really like the models and the fluff I mean they are really cool so I sometimes take a small unit of 3..with or without the cannon depending on points. They are great support for other squads since they can get where they need to quickly and the free assauly move makes them as annoying as tau jump packs. since I dont use a lot of them my tactics with them differ a great deal from an all jetbike army...who shoots 3 jetbikes when there are 20 dire avengers advancing in the same place..having said that they make great objective takers as I'm sure someone has to have already said. Oh and the twin-linked weapons really help with their average BS

[Pyroh]

Well, don´t listen to Moc on line 2, he IS a jetbike god :-) Or at least one of the most competent people around here.

My style is a little different though in some part, I´ll get to that later though (I´m from Ulthwé, so some difference is only logical :-)).

The biggest importance is, whether you want to be jetbike heavy, or if you want them just as some sort of addition. They tend to get costly rather quickly, and if you have half army slow, half in jetbikes, it won´t be very good I think. They don´t have the stopping power good enough I think. But if whole army is very fast, they are lethal, as they don´t have to stop anything...As addition to different theme army I´d take them as vehicle hunters - either just 3 with shuricannon, or I´d add warlock (it makes the squad much more powerful, but much more costly too).

I use small squads of 3 bikes+warlock (singing spear+destructor). I prefer to have smaller squads - sacrifices hurt less, easier to hide, can be a little confusing for my opponent etc.

For melee, I would never use them - I have shining spears for that. But seriously, bikes ordinary guardsmen, which cost triple the points...

My tactics is based on the fact, that I can quickly move them where I want - so I wait, shoot with cannons and hide, kill some models with mind war, and when I see my opponent made a mistake (he always does), I doom some squad (with two seers, I can doom two squads), strike at them with several units of jetbikes combined. I mean, if you have only two small squads I mentioned, it´s 4 TL shuricats, 6 SC shots and two destructors - when the unit is doomed, it´s pretty good.

I weaken a squad this way and then charge with shining spears (I have a stat table in my head, so I want the unit "prepared" for such number of models, so spears won´t kill them all - they´ll stay hidden in the close combat, and they´ll jump back (ready to charge in my turn).

This way, I hurt my opponent - sometimes I can get to his vehicles, sometimes I just kill mostly infantry...but it works.

It´s tough, as I have to care much about both of us - I have to wait for every little mistake of my opponent, while I have to take care so I myself don´t do a mistake :-) On the other hand, it´s rather rewarding style of playing + the army looks so good.

So, to sum it up, jetbikes are potentially powerful, but I think they should be really a minor addition, or main theme of an army, to be fully effective. Their speed and manouvrability is great, but it´s paid for...

[Gutstikk]

A squad of 6 is probably big enough by base size to block all sides of almost any transport, and thereby pin it in place, so you could effectively keep the vehicle from moving and also eliminate anybody who was forced to disembark.  Larger squads even moreso.

You could also make a line out of a large jetbike squad and use it to prevent first wave assault units from contacting anything but the jetbikes, and they will probably have a maximum kill zone of 5 bikes but if they hit the ends of the line will only be able to kill 2 max.

Finally, a large unit can work well with two assault squads - give the large unit fortune, power it past the kill site on turbo [for the shooting invul], make a pen that rejoins the assault points as shown:

       X   X   X   X
   X                    X
        a a a  b b b
   X                    X
      y y y y z z z z

where X=jetbikes, y = your 1st assault unit, z = another assault unit, a and b = enemy units.  The jetbikes do not fight in combat but merely cut down the enemy as they fall back.

That's all the odd stuff I can think of.

[Redlion]

TheEldarGuy was great with shining spears last edition. He loved them, he was the only person I know of that even used them.

I used jb's ever since I got them, I thought they would be weak they are not. I used them in a biel-tan list, and a vanilla list. Mostly against marine players. I will 2nd any comments made about keeping them out of hth.

Yes there can be exceptions to that statement. Also depends on how you configure the unit ie (lock, with destructor, or a seer).

I used to run mine straight up 6 men, with 2 shuri cannons.

People have come up with some new tactics though, because you no longer have to have 6 man squads. However it depends on what role you want to use them for, and the rest of your army, and their general intended targets.

Vypers, and our other vehicles are great at augmented the regular jb squad. It depends on your role for them in your army.

One thing is they are a fun unit to use. They are fast, and they are cool. I love them.

Keep in mind, an Avatar is not out of place within a jb army. His fearless bubble aura, would be invaluable to that army imo.
Because when I played mine their biggest weakness was morale. I rarely lost mine though. However it did happen.

You can avoid combat if you know your opponents movement rates for his units.

Turbo away, even if you have to forgo a round of shooting. Unless it can benefit you to engage them, or allow them to be engaged.


As far as the shining spears, how about banshees on jetbikes ?

Because thats about what they are, except with a higher strength. The autarch conferring his plasma grenades is contestable though, so charging into cover with them imo is not a good idea. I wish GW would FAQ that.

However, an Autarch with a EML, sitting back all game taking pot shots, and ducking back into cover is pretty mean. You can keep your shining spears as has already stated, as a fast response counter assault threat. Their speed makes them great for that, and regualr jetbikes can be somewhat effective at that role as well, except in the shooting department of it, not the hth part. Unless it benefits your plan at that time.

Yeah, Moc and others as well have given really good advice. Anyway, you could write a book on how to use them, I didn't cover but a microbe of really how useful they can really be. Plus I know I have repeated what some others have already said as well.

Good luck.

Added: My only gripe, and its not a huge one is, I wish jetbikes could have been a troop choice, or a fast attack choice. Perhaps by limiting the number for a troop choice, such as 6 for troop, and then  any configuration for fast attack. Why, because, I want to run a lot of guardian units, with my jetbike squad, having to pick the jetbike squad now, cuts into my number of other troops I could also pick. By the same token, GW could fix the issue altogether by simply removing the 6 unit troop choice cap. Hell if someone wants to play all troops why the hell not.

[ranger_55]

Hell if someone wants to play all troops why the hell not.

Like fantasy...it would be great. I wish they would have kep minimum squad for rangers to 3 because I like to have some since they are fun but again I dont want to spend a ton of points on them and use up a tropp slot.

[interpretivechaos]

There is something distinctly satisfying when you turboboost two squads of jetbikes around a landraider and then get a penetrating hit and watch the terminators be cut down by guardians as the emerge.
One of my favorite things about jetbikes is they deploy so early: you can start the game by placing two grav-tanks, two squads of jetbikes, and once your opponent starts deploying opposite you deploy on the other side. The grav-units can change sides turn 1, leaving half of his army stranded. Often that advantage will make up for their points by itself.

[deFl0]

So I'm not sure how you plan on using them. I see people either take two smal squads to lock out there troop choice to compliment a mech force. The alternative is to take a heavy jetbike forces.

Fof the first 3 and a cannon or three and a warlock tends to be the favored units. I've seen.

For the warlock the standard choice is embloden vs destructor. Embolden is great if you plan you run the farseer around with them as it gives the farseer a free re roll.

If you plan on running a larger force you will find that you run out of space to hide all your jetbikes. So the alternative is to build different squads for differnt uses. I personally liek the following builds:

- 3 Jet Bike 1 W/ Cannon
- 3 Jet bikes w/ 1 SC, warlcok with SS and embolden
- 6 Jet bikes w/ 1 SC
- 9 or 12 Jet bikes, max cannons, warlock with conceal and SS

The 6 man and smaller are great harrassing units. Tehy jump in and out of cover harrasing unit and maybe do a little tank or speeder hunting.

The larger 9 or 12 bikes don;t need cover. The have a 3+/5+I, and are a good target for fortune, especially when turbo boosting. They are very resilient and can cause some serious killing power if combined with doom. 12 and a warlock can actaully fire at a doomed 10 man marine squad and charge it and kill 8 guys. 

I suggest keeping all jetbikes out of cc, and use the shining spears and autarch to rescue troops locked in hth. I also really like a large mounted warlock squad for tank hunting.

Bikes are also very good at blocking door ways in transports.

You can also do great combos with shining spears and jetbikes. Charge with both. With draw with the shining spear and leave the regular jet bikes in hth to tie it up and block los to shining spears.

Ultimately, in a jetbike list, you will find that you need to run and autarch for escalation and hth, and tank hunting, and the farseer is nice to protect units with fourtune. Finally, tank hunting is a little rough. Addind a falocn with fire dragons or 2 fire prism adds a lot of depth to the list. Vypers are a nice little option but tend to die as they are left in the open. Ultimaely vypers are just plain over priced, but they can get their points back if used correctly.

Pete

[Pyroh]

defl0: I´d disagree on some parts.

Autarch is not necessary. I found that two farseers are crucial for me - and while autarch may help, I´d say he´s far from necessary. Especially when we have spears for melee.

Anti-tank is minor problem with fast singing spears and shining spears.

Plain overpriced? Moc would have a comment on this for sure...but I tend to agree with him on that.

Getting points back is pointless. My bike army works so good not because all units pay for themselves (well, often they do, but that´s a minor issue), but because I have little casualties.

[Pink Floyd]

I run a jetbike heavy list and I find it fun and effective to use as all my units can quickly gain objectives or redeploy and focus on one portion of the opponents army.
 
Also I'm surprised noone's mentioned the fact that jetbikes have twin linked shuricats which offsets the guardians mediocre BS put a jetbike mounted farseer in there casting doom and you have alot of deadly units.

But the major advantage is the fact that it looks so cool with all those hvering units!