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Author Topic: have not played 5th ed yet but want to play ard boys... is my list good?  (Read 738 times)

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Offline angel of death 007

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ok so as the title says i have not played since 5th ed was released and haven't used my eldar in awhile.  I put together a 2500 pt list tonight with pretty much what i had painted up and ready to go.   I need some insite as I heard we got really screwed in 5th with our skimmers......   so here goes

HQ                                                                                    365
typical here.... 
Eldrad
Avatar

Elite
Striking Scorpions (x6) Exarch w claw and Shadowstrike                              153

Fire Warriors (x6) Ex with pike and tank hunters                                             131

Howling Banshees (x8) Ex with mirror blades                                                  150

Troops
Dire Avengers (10) Ex with SS +PW, defend bladestorm                                 295
-Wave Serpant w SS and EML

Dire Avengers (10) Ex with SS+PW, defend, Bladestorm                                310
-Wave Serpant w SS and BL

Pathfinders (5)                                                                                                    120

Pathfinders (5)                                                                                                     120

Guardians (10) w EML, warlock with destructor                                                 138

Fast Attack
Swooping Hawks (6) Ex with hawks talon and Skyleap                                     163

Vyper with SL                                                                                                        60

Heavy
Wraithlord w sword n EML                                                                                 125

Warwalkers (3) all with one SL 2 with BL the last with EML                             215

Falcon w s.s. and BL                                                                                             145

Goals
Infiltrate Scorpions and Pathfinders into objective or cover scorpions protect pathfinders from close combat…  pathfinders snipe stuff. 

Dire avengers in WS and FW’s in Falcon…   FW tank hunt…   Dire avengers contest objectives deal with infantry fast advance….   Using the Vyper to help support advance.

Swooping hawks cause mayhem and soften squads up before skyleaping… also keep their KP’s from the enemy

Guardians hold down own objective with WL and Avatar in front of them to protect from attack n make them fearless.   
Behind them are Eldrad with the banshees and behind them the warwalkers…  Walkers, WL and guardian platform provide long range support.   Eldrad dooms those in range and guides the walkers….  Banshees act to counter attack any forces that challenge the gun line.

Basically it is my old 1500 pt list with a few squads added.  I have other elder stuff but not painted and ready to go. 

Let me know if u think that this list will be effective or if I need to change some weapon read outs cuz all my army is magnetized and can change weapons on anything if there is a better option.

Thanks in advance.


Offline stezerok

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In general what I've seen of 5th edition, is that Flamers, Melta, and Close Combat are essential. These main weapons are spammed pretty much in every list where they can, and where things like flamers can't be taken, high rate of fire weaponry is used (this is as opposed to the high ap weapons that were famed an edition ago).

So, due to the close-ranged nature of these kinds of weapons, and since objectives are far more important than before (and keeping Scoring Troops alive to capture them), transports and mechanized in general have become essential. This was also promoted by the major increases to durability that tanks took with the new damage table, and how easy the table is on passengers now.

What this means in the end for a really solid and competitive list is that Waveserpents are a must along with heavy skimmers like Falcons and Fire Prisms that can take Holofields. BL's on as many serpents as possible help to soften targets as you come in for the kill as well as suppress incoming AT fire. Then, Fire Dragons and Storm Guardians are a good source of both Flamers/Meltas, while Bladestorming Dire Avengers help with their massive amounts of shots. Finally, a tough Close Combat ensures that you'll be able to absorb enormous amounts of these incoming shots, while also breaking units they touch with the new combat res system. In general Warlocks are perfect for this since they wound everything on a 2+, destroy tanks with str 9 attacks, and have 4+ re-rollable (fortune) invulnerable saves. Second best to these is Striking Scorpions, but they are so far behind that it's a handicap.

Static elements tend to do poorly now-a-days, since they don't proactively attack objectives, and since our enemies are so much faster now (transports, run, Deepstrike, Outflank, etc...).

The problem you're going to face with your list is that your static elements are going to be far from your mobile element which will need to move out, sometimes across the board, to hit objectives. This combined with a lot of units with small numbers provides easy Kill Points for the enemy (in 'Ard Boyz, Elites/FA/and HS are all 2 KP's with Dedicated Transports counting as 1). Hawks, and Vypers especially will be instantly targeted to reap these points, while pretty much all of the enemies AT will focus on your Avatar (since HQ's yield 5 KP's, and you really can't hide him...).

The best I can say given what you have (I'm assuming this is it?), is that Waveserpents and Wraithlord NEED Bright Lances instead of any EML's. EML's should probably go on the Falcon so that it can move and still fire small blasts and things. Consolidate the Pathfinders into one unit so that they won't be easy pickings, and can actually cause some damage. Finally make the Warwalkers weapon load-outs either ALL Scatter Laser, or ALL EML's. Either one of those will cause significant problems for the enemy, or you can take the El Cheapo route and make them ALL Shuriken Cannons and Outflank them to mitigate the short range.

I hope this helps man.

Good Hunting,
-Stezerok

Offline Seren Nos

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Just to add my thoughts

If you have the model available, you could drop one of the pathfinder squads to take a waveserpent for the banshees. I believe the avatar + Wraithlord would be sufficient to guard your gunline from deepstrikers etc. However I'm not sure if Eldrad should stay with the gunline or join the banshees as they definately need doom.

Also I don't think infiltrating the pathfinders would be a good move. The prevalence of deepstrikers, outflanking and transports means the likelyhood of them being at the wrong end of a flamer on the first/second turn is too high.
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Offline ctownman

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I agree fully with everything Stezerok said!

Offline angel of death 007

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I wish i had the models for a Warlock / seer council because I would definately play it with a 2500 pts list  but unfortuneatly i don't.  It seems like they are very popular in 5th ed because I rarely see a list without them or ones on bikes...

As far as the walkers go I know strategically it is better to keep all the weapons the same.. but what do u think is better the SL or EML on them?   

I do have another wave serpant I can assemble and have ready but i wouldn't know what to put in it.... The banshees would be good but it would be a waste to have eldrad with them in it IMO.  A doomseer would be much better and a lot less pointswise.   Aside from that I got a Second Vyper, a set of 3 bikes, five warp spyders with no ex :( and a set of unassembled dark reapers.  Eldrad will do a lot more for my gunline espeically guiding the walker squad.


If i drop the Vyper i can put BL on my other WS and on my WL.   Which i can do as it sounds like a better idea.   I am not sure about consolidating the Pathfinders though.   Two sqds can target two different groups or the same.  Plus won't get lost if someone does get into CC with them.  Plus i can set them up in different spots if needed.

I am not too worried about flamers gettin at my pathfinders if the two squads are together because if they get that close the scorpians should have already assaulted them.  They will infiltrate together.  Unless the two pathfinder squads need to split up then i might need to worry about one of them.

Not sure to go with EML's or Scatter lasers though...  EML is more versatile where Scatter lasers is a lot more output.  A lot of eldar players i know that use walkers use SL or SC but I don't like to use my walkers to flank or scout as they are a squad and if one gets immobilised it is lost I like them better in a gun line where they can be guided.  My load out worked pretty good though in the past because it destroyed one unit or tank a turn pretty much guarenteed when it was guided. 

Offline stezerok

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As far as Walkers go, the EML's aren't as good against infantry as Scatters, as the blasts aren't quite as reliable, but they have better potential against a wider variety of tanks (important for cutting down enemy transports), as well as a longer range which helps protect them. I personally like the EML's for these reasons, but keep in mind that it is a fair bit more expensive, so depending on the other upgrades and things that you take you may be forced to take Scatters.

Another Waveserpent will be essential, as those girls are already at lower numbers than they really should be, and they really just can't walk, not when their reputation precedes them like it does. So definitely get another Waveserpent to have them in, it's absolutely worthwhile.

As for Eldrad, I can't see how it would be a waste. Having him there in the transports allows you to Doom both Dire Avenger and Howling Banshee targets, as well as Fortune either them or your transports. Your anvil has an Avatar to hang with along with a Wraithlord and Warwalkers, they don't really need Eldrad, plus with your mechanized wing going for them they'll be a bit focused on that as well.

The deal with Pathfinders though is that splitting fire isn't going to be too impressive since 5 shots is rather underwhelming especially given that they fire at ballistic skill now. Forcing two pinning tests could be nice but again you have to kill a model first to have that happen. On top of this, the most advantage you could get out of two separate squads is having each cover a different objective, something you don't want to do since you plan to have the Scorpions safeguard both. So since they're going to be sticking together, and most likely firing at the same targets, there's no reason to have them give your enemy two kill points when they take them.

Good Hunting,
-Stezerok

Offline Sludge_City

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Quick note on War Walker weapons - I tested 3xWW w/6x EML recently against Tau.

Guided they pump out an enormous amount of firepower. On a squad of 12 Fire Warriors I managed 25 wounds with small blasts...lets see 24 shots from SL do that! Also the added range/strength/ap of the EML single shot is well worth the small extra cost (great for taking out Crisis Teams and other multi-wound squads). They may not take down terminators effectively, but neither do SL.

I am quickly becoming a fan of EML over SL, but all my weapons are magnetic so it's whatever takes my fancy, really...maybe I'll go for Starcannons one day for nostalgia's sake :P

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Offline rainman

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I think the best the thing to do would be drop the banshees and go with Harlequins with rending and a shadow seer.  Run them as a counter charge unit for the avatar.  Use the avatar to draw the enemy out.  Also, if you're able to, I would suggest to get several wave serpants with with either SC/SL's.

I like the walkers - I would suggest SL's as you can get 24 S6 shots off at your enemy - Since you're hitting most vehicles in the side or rear, you'll probably get a few pens or glances.  In addition, when you start taking shots at horde armies, you're looking at killing a lot of Orks, Nids, or forcing a lot of armor saves on marines.

Offline angel of death 007

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HQ                                                                                                            365
 
Eldrad
Avatar

Elite
Striking Scorpions (x6) Exarch w claw and Shadowstrike                                  153

Fire Warriors (x6) Ex with pike and tank hunters                                             131

Howling Banshees (x8) Ex with mirror blades                                                  295
Wave Serpant w SS and BL

Troops
Dire Avengers (10) Ex with SS +PW, defend bladestorm                                  310
-Wave Serpant w SS and BL

Dire Avengers (10) Ex with SS+PW, defend, Bladestorm                                  310
-Wave Serpant w SS and BL

Pathfinders (8 )                                                                                              192



Guardians (10) w SL, warlock with destructor                                                 133

Fast Attack
Swooping Hawks (6) Ex with hawks talon and Skyleap                                     163



Heavy
Wraithlord w sword n EML                                                                             125

Warwalkers (3) all with SL                                                                              180

Falcon w s.s. and SL                                                                                      145

Here is the revised list... I couldn't add Harlies cuz i don't have them painted and didn't want to bring out unpainted stuff.  I wanted to try the EML's but with moving Eldrad with the flying banshees i wouldn't be able to guide them so I went with the SL's....   I traded the EML for the SL in the defender squad to save points...  I had to come up with the points for the other WS for the banshees so i consolidated the pathfinders into one unit of 8 as well and dropped the Vyper.   

So gunline will be the same minus eldrad who will accompany the banshees.  This list has a lot more mobility still not so sure about having Eldrad with the banshees kinda on the fence with that but it is worth a try. 

I also added BL's to all the serpants I figured the twin linked will increase their accuracy.  I didn't have the points for an EML on the falcon so i went with a SL.  Thought about going with 2 SC's instead since they will be pretty close to whatever they are going to shoot at when they drop off their fire dragons.

I appreciate all the insite..  I know that i am going to be looking at purchasing a few more banshees, and a seer council, and possibly a fire prism in the near future... and an ex for my warpspiders.  I usually don't play such a large list but ard boys is more points than i usually play.

I am not sure if I like the banshees in such a forward role... I think the FD's and the DA's do a much better job but I am always up to try new things.  I wish you all luck that are entering the contest.   If there is anything on the list that still looks like it needs tweaked a bit let me know.
« Last Edit: July 4, 2009, 02:11:35 PM by angel of death 007 »

Offline stezerok

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I definitely like this list better. My only suggestions are that you should try and squeeze Holofields onto the Falcon. Without the Energy Fields that the Serpent has, an AV 12 Fast, Skimmer isn't going to last too long, especially not with famed cargo like Fire Dragons. You may need to drop Pike and Tank Hunter from Fire Dragons to get it. Also, Embolden would be better on the Guardian Defenders than Destructor. Finally putting a BL on the Wraithlord instead of the EML would be the best way to go, but where you'd get the points is anybodies guess (Swooping Hawks?).

Other than that I think it's good. For your Banshees, don't worry about it. The girls want to be in on the action, they're not nearly as good for Counter Assualt as Scorpions and since they're in transport it'd be a waste otherwise. Not to mention, with so much invested in DA's and FD's in transports, you'll need some CC element there to protect them. Just make sure to keep your Banshees on the flank away from any retaliating units, soften targets with shooting from DA's first, and use your tanks to block and disrupt site to your guys.

Good Hunting,
-Stezerok

Offline angel of death 007

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Well thanks for everyone who helped me with my list.... I will regret to inform you though that I didn't get to play.  The store owner didn't know that much about the ard boys tournament and first told me it was 1850 pts...  which i found out online was wrong.. then he told me that the tournament started at 10....  which i found out after going there at like 9 something that it started at 8.  It didn't really matter anyway though they were only given 2.5 hours per game so hardly anyone got more than 2 turns in a game. 

For you that want to know there was to the best of my knowledge
-1 ork horde army (almost all on foot plus a large deff kopta squad)
-1 imperial guard (horde) gunline type army with several tanks
(heavy support basilik sqaud of 3 and two leman russ sqds of two)
-2 daemon armies (i don't know squat about daemons other than one had two soul grinders in it and the other had about 4 really large daemons 2 with wings and the nurgle FW model (fat one)
-2 salamanders armies (nothing exciting here at all...  neither had drop pods or rhino heavy)
-1 crimson fist army (assault termies in a LRC and 2 Vindicators w Dread in Drop pod)
-1 ultramarines (cragar with cmd squad Nothing fancy here)
-1 plague marine army (rhino / infantry heavy all infantry in rhinos two large reg. marine squads on foot, two DP, A few dreads or obliterators not sure what he was using them as)
-1 eldar army (typical yerial / Eldrad set up w seer council, jet bike sqds... and heavy guardian sqd...  also a few jet bikes not many aspect warriors i remember that)

I think my list would have been very competative vs what was out there... a lot less armor then I thought there would be.  2 of the players were Noobs....  I never played daemons but with them having to deep strike on the table and the usual game only getting 2 turns in I don't think they would be able to stop my mech part of my army...  My army would have been the fastest which probably would have suit me well.  The plague marines would have been probably the hardest due to their FNP and large amount of rhinos...  I think he had 4 sqds of 7, then two large maybe 20 reg marines sqds.  He massacred the Daemon army he played in the first game. 


 


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