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Author Topic: My Original 2000pt for rating please  (Read 2036 times)

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Offline Grunty

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My Original 2000pt for rating please
« on: December 16, 2009, 12:30:55 PM »
Hi all,

As a side line to my ongoing pondering in regards to wraithlords/avatar vs Prisms I thought I would throw up what I had been using since this time last year, with a few slight tweaks.  I am not entirely convinced by the warp spiders hence the previous thread but I was wondering whether it could be rated please?

History and Fluff
A small, militaristic craftworld that has splintered away from Biel Tan many centuries ago, it still retains strong affiliations with its (in)famous bigger brother, adopting their strategies of war with numerous aspect warriors and emulating their famed Bahzhakhain or Swordwind.  Similarly, during times of great peril a Court of the Young King is assembled as a war council, but ultimate control still resides with the Seer Council and its Chief Farseer.  Its current farseer (Siansung) has forseen the destruction of her beloved craftworld and is out on the rampage to stop it.  Dam Soole's forces are made up off aspect warriors and support vehicles, strictly no guardians. 

More fluff here and some piccies here

Dam Soole 2000pts

HQ
Farseer Siansung - Doom, Singing Spear

Elites
10x Howling Banshees - Exarch, Mirror Swords, Acrobatic
-Waveserpent - T-L Bright Lances, Spirit Stones

8x Fire Dragons - Exarch, Dragon's Breath Flamer, Crack Shot
-Waveserpent - T-L Bright Lances, Spirit Stones

8x Striking Scorpions - Exarch, Scorpion's Claw, Stalker, Shadowstrike

Troops
10x Dire Avengers - Exarch, Power Weapon, Shimmershield, Defend, Bladestorm
10x Dire Avengers - Exarch, Dual Shuri-Cats, Bladestorm

5x Dire Avengers (in Falcon)

Fast Attack
8x Warp Spiders - Exarch, Power Blades, Extra Death Spinner, Withdraw

Heavy Support
Falcon - EML, Holofield, Spirit Stones

Fire Prism - Holofield, Spirit Stones
Fire Prism - Holofield, Spirit Stones

Total Points 1992, 5 Vehicles, 3 Scoring Units, 13 KP

Tactics
Doomseer, DAs and Scorpions march up the middle bladestorming/Dooming to clear objectives/thin out scary CC which the Scorpions will counter charge.  I retained outflanking for the scorpions incase I faced a gunline/IG etc.

The 2x Prisms hang 60" back, one on each flank and throw pieplates around (combined as required versus MEQ) to disrupt/thin out.

The spiders would be deployed behind terrain but as far forward as possible (I generally don't DS them).  Fragons, Falcon (with the DA squad ala Lazarus) and Banshees hang back, obscured and out of range. 

The BLances and Falcon bust AV to try and slow any early rushes.  Once the Doomseer and co get within rapid fire range I move the Banshees and Fragons up and clear objectives.  The remaining DAs sit on objectives once cleared.  Falcon uses its range to stay out of the way until the last turn for sneaky tank shocks and objective steals.

The spiders either thin out anything hordey that the Prisms haven't dealt with to stop the DAs getting overwhelmed or protect the Prisms, again contesting objectives as a last ditch.

Hope I've explained the tactics clearly enough!

Thanks,

Grunty.

« Last Edit: December 17, 2009, 03:06:25 AM by Grunty »

Offline Fenris

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Re: My Original 2000pt for rating please
« Reply #1 on: December 17, 2009, 08:02:03 AM »
Those Avengers need transports, or they will be left backfield and possibly shot down easily. I would probably dropped the spiders to get the points.
Bladestorm is also no good for footslogging avengers since their fleet nerf by 5th ed. (heard of the run rule?)
Dragon exarch don't need crack shot, that flamer already ignores cover.

I would also have dropped 2 dragons in favor of 2 scorpions.

The holofields and thereby stones are not essential for the prisms, I would probably dropped them, or at least on 1 of them if I was short on points.

Giving the scorpions a serpent would be nice, but It would not be prioritised.

Otherwise and overall like the army.
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Offline Gutstikk

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Re: My Original 2000pt for rating please
« Reply #2 on: December 17, 2009, 08:20:38 AM »
If you could squeeze fortune and stones in, that would help your infantry avengers quite a bit. Keep them in cover behind the scorps. If assaulted, their rerollable saves + defend will keep them in the fight for quite some time. They're much more effective with an autarch attached - then they can actually kill things. Yriel is a good option here for subsequent rounds since the Avengers get rerollable ++ vs the Eye of Wrath, as does the farseer assuming he's joined to Yriel/Avengers. Additionally, any form of Autarch + farseer joined to the Avengers can generally shrug off the first two wounds on the unit, keeping the Avengers around to score for much much longer than they'd be able to otherwise. Since the unit follows the scorps upfield, the enemy has the harsh choice of stopping the scorpions and possibly dealing with Yriel in CC, or firing at the Avengers who will generally make saves and getting assaulted by the scorps.

This works much better if you have a credible pressure threat that can arrive early and must be dealt with immediately, which you do in this list. What to replace to get there would be the real question. If it were me, I'd lose a prism, possibly drop some spiders/dragons, bump the scoprs up to 10, add fortune/stones, and add Yriel or a normal autarch for one Avenger team. Or change that last skimmer out for another serpent for the second Avenger team.

Offline moc065

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Re: My Original 2000pt for rating please
« Reply #3 on: December 17, 2009, 08:42:32 AM »
Hi all,

I will add comments and then rate the list below

HQ
Farseer Siansung - Doom, Singing Spear
There is nothing wrong with a good old fashioned Doom-seer... although I would suggest the RoWard for psycher suppression, and the addition of Fortune & Stones could help the Shimmershield DA to stay alive longer if they did happen to stray from cover, etc, etc. Where to find the points,,, that will come later

Elites
10x Howling Banshees - Exarch, Mirror Swords, Acrobatic
-Waveserpent - T-L Bright Lances, Spirit Stones
[color=]I prefer the Executioner for its use on Almost any Opponent/Unit.. but some like the Swords, so do what suits you.. The unit and Serpent have served me well, although you can forgo Acrobatic if you think about your placement/movement ahead of schedule. (points shave)[/color]

8x Fire Dragons - Exarch, Dragon's Breath Flamer, Crack Shot
-Waveserpent - T-L Bright Lances, Spirit Stones
I find that 6+ are plenty for me, so 8 should be more than enough.... I too prefer the DBF and CS, so I wouldn't change that part. The Serpent is also very solid as is... so the only suggestion might be to dump 1-2 FD's but poorly for the point shave.

8x Striking Scorpions - Exarch, Scorpion's Claw, Stalker, Shadowstrike
Here I prefer a Full squad.. the rest is great.

Troops
10x Dire Avengers - Exarch, Power Weapon, Shimmershield, Defend, Bladestorm
10x Dire Avengers - Exarch, Dual Shuri-Cats, Bladestorm
5x Dire Avengers (in Falcon)
Three very different squads, yet they are all still Dire Avengers...
The first squad, is great as a the Frontal shooters, putting out 18 shots/turn and saving Bladestorm for just prior to going into an assault, or if assault is enividable.... Great tarpit unit, and the SS helps vs ranged attacks, but still try and use cover.
The second squad is a great "Assist" squad as they can pump out 24 shots a turn and once again saving bladestorm for those final touches, or if their goind into assault anyway. Keep them behind the other squad to get guaranteed Cover Saves, or use the terrain with both squads.
The DAVU (as they are simply a Vehicle Upgrade) should sit in their can as long as possible and Score.
I don't really see any reason to alter any of these squads.


Fast Attack
8x Warp Spiders - Exarch, Power Blades, Extra Death Spinner, Withdraw
I love these guys, and I have good success with Deepstriking them or setting up behind cover (if available)... they are best at shooting, so don't get them into CC unless its on your terms, and you should Withdraw into a "Safe" area, or not at all....
If you really need points, this would be the first squad that I would Chop from the list.



Heavy Support
Falcon - EML, Holofield, Spirit Stones

Fire Prism - Holofield, Spirit Stones
Fire Prism - Holofield, Spirit Stones
Not much to say, all three are solid choices for today's Meta, and its exactly how I have run mine (with success) as well as many others.

Total Points 1992, 5 Vehicles, 3 Scoring Units, 13 KP

Grunty.

Moc-Score (pending)

1.. Anti-tank potential Average 0.6 ~~ The Troops have no AT potential, but otherwise the list is good for its range and versatility in regard to AT. 
2.. Anti-MEQ potential Above Average 0.7 ~~ Not due to dedicated A-MEQ; but due to the combo's, pie plates, range, str etc... this list has a lot of shooting potential as well as some units that can dish it out to MEQ. Using the units in good combo's will be the key to maximizing the A-MEQ potential.
3.. Anti-Horde potential Average 0.6 ~~ No Flamers, and no way to deal with multiple "Big Scaries"... but otherwise the Horde Factor is covered.
4.. Ranged Firepower potential Very Good 0.9 ~~ Seriously, this list packs a fair bit of firepower, and with its movement base, it can pretty well hammer anything that enters its 24" bubble (Doom will also help as will its ability to Open Armour to get at the creamy filling).
5.. Assault potential Average 0.6 ~~ Banshee's and Scorpions are decent; but they both have their flaws for 5th Ed... Scorps should be maxed out, and the Banshees simply work vs more opponents with an Executioner.. slight alterations to the list would raise this score instantly.
6.. Scoring Units / point level Slightly Below Average 0.5 ~~ 3 @ 2K is not great, and the fact that 2/3 are actually fairly soft if not used well, does not help.
7.. Durability or Resilience Avereage 0.6 ~~ I see some great durable items, then I see a Firebase that really needs to used 100% correct or its in trouble... If I were to face this list, I would shake the big guns, and template the Troops, as will most fast/shooty armies... those with fast/assault will run the Troops down.
8.. Flexability Average 0.6 ~~ I see the list being able to deal with most races, etc.. although I do not see how it will deal with the current top tier lists.
9.. Mission Capabiliy Above Average 0.7 ~~ I see no big issues with any missions or Deployments... Although as mentioned the Firebase must be set-up and used correctly or its dead meat.
10. Dynamics and/or Theme Good 0.8 ~~ I like the theme of the All Aspect Warriors, Vehicles, and low toys - lots a boys, etc... the fluff was refreshing if not a little too simple; and I see the list have some wickedly good synergy potential.

moc-score = 6.6/10 Some will score it differently; but I see point in making huge changes, as this could be a great local list that has uses vs almost any army it will encounter. Not only that, the modeling and painting potential is great as well. Nice Old School style list, that should do well enough to be fun for both players.

Cheers
« Last Edit: December 18, 2009, 01:13:58 PM by moc065 »
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Offline Grunty

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Re: My Original 2000pt for rating please
« Reply #4 on: December 17, 2009, 06:03:12 PM »
Hi,

Thanks for the intial feedback :)

Bladestorm is also no good for footslogging avengers since their fleet nerf by 5th ed. (heard of the run rule?)
Sorry I don't follow this bit.

Dragon exarch don't need crack shot, that flamer already ignores cover.
I take it to re-roll to wound rolls

Otherwise thanks for the feedback, will give your other points some thought.

@Gutstikk, I like your suggestions very much.  Do you think dropping the spiders entirely for the Farseer, Autarch and Scorpion upgrades would be a viable trade off?

Thanks again

Your friendly neighbourhood Grunt.

Offline Fenris

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Re: My Original 2000pt for rating please
« Reply #5 on: December 17, 2009, 06:34:36 PM »
Well, I used to use bladestorm 13-18" away from Marines, they would move 6" closer and fire, letting me fleet away with the Avengers more than 18" away to prevent rapid fire or boltpistols, and next round move within 18" and bladestorm again.

Now that doesn't work, if I use bladestorm within 18" a smart marine player will move 6" and run, forcing my avengers into CC or be stuck within their rapid fire or boltpistol range, possibly allowing them to charge my avengers.

That's why fleet got nerfed for shooty units, and will make Bladestorm for footslogging avengers less valuable.


About the crack shot I don't feel a re-roll is all that necessary with decently high strength of the flamer, that's why I wouldn't use it unless I had points to fill.
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Offline Partninja

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Re: My Original 2000pt for rating please
« Reply #6 on: December 17, 2009, 06:46:26 PM »
Cracks shot also ignores cover saves, which is good for trying to bust a tank that is getting a cover save (boosting, blocking units, terrain etc. ).

Offline moc065

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Re: My Original 2000pt for rating please
« Reply #7 on: December 17, 2009, 07:48:01 PM »
Well, I used to use bladestorm 13-18" away from Marines, they would move 6" closer and fire, letting me fleet away with the Avengers more than 18" away to prevent rapid fire or boltpistols, and next round move within 18" and bladestorm again.

Now that doesn't work, if I use bladestorm within 18" a smart marine player will move 6" and run, forcing my avengers into CC or be stuck within their rapid fire or boltpistol range, possibly allowing them to charge my avengers.

That's why fleet got nerfed for shooty units, and will make Bladestorm for footslogging avengers less valuable.


About the crack shot I don't feel a re-roll is all that necessary with decently high strength of the flamer, that's why I wouldn't use it unless I had points to fill.

I don't quite follow this, as BS Avengers should be taking a few SM's down... if they move and run next turn.. then you simply move and Run Back.... putting the BS advantage back in your court if you want, or you advance and assault if you have other stuff to put the advantage in your court.

Or

The DA simply work together and use their standard shooting first, then when the SM's advance and run, the DA continue to work together with Bladestorm en masse, followed by an assault if needed.

Rating Done above...

Cheers
« Last Edit: December 18, 2009, 01:17:48 PM by moc065 »
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