Topic: Scoring Magic Falcons (1K Core List)

[Schrodinger]

Army Size:  1000 points
Army Type:  Fully Mechanized Eldar
Opposition:  Heavy Mechanized (Triple Land Raiders)

Trial #1 vs. Imperial Guard

The List

(75)    Farseer
              Guide
(75)    Farseer
              Guide

(60)    5 Dire Avengers
(60)    5 Dire Avengers

(175)  Falcon
              Two Shuriken Cannon, Holo-Field, Spirit Stone
(175)  Falcon
              Two Shuriken Cannon, Holo-Field, Spirit Stone

(80)    5 Fire Dragons
(80)    5 Fire Dragons

(110)   Wave Serpent (Dedicated to Fire Dragons)
              TL Shuriken Cannon, Spirit Stone
(110)   Wave Serpent (Dedicated to Fire Dragons)
              TL Shuriken Cannon, Spirit Stone

   The list will play as VP Denial, with the Dire Avengers hiding within upgraded Falcons to form a hardened scoring unit.  The primary offensive power in the early game comes from Guided Falcons.  The Falcons will remain in cover when possible, to enhance their durability.  The choice of high rate of fire, poor ap weaponry ensures that I will not be tempted to expose the Falcon for a clear shot.

   Any opposing anti-tank weaponry will be high priority, with infantry based threats dealt with by my tanks.  Enemy light vehicles will be taken down by massed Str 6 fire, and the occasional Pulse Laser.  Heavy tanks will be melted by the Fire Dragons.

   Versus an infantry heavy opponent, mobility will be a primary target.  Once the enemy is slowed and fractured, isolated units may be destroyed at will by my own embarked units.

   The Farseers are purposefully flexible in their deployment, being able to ride along with either the Dire Avengers or Fire Dragons.  The Falcons may be Guided from within either transport, but embarked infantry may not be Guided unless the Farseer is also a member of the squad.  Therefore, the deployment of Farseers will depend upon the enemy army composition.  If a tank heavy force is expected, the Farseers will stay with the Dragons (even without upgrades, Guided Dragons will work wonders on a Land Raider).  Versus hoards, the Farseer will remain with the Dire Avengers in case they need to get out and perform decisively.

   This list originated in response to the new SM codex.  My friend decided that what he fears most is the possibility of three Land Raiders filled with scoring troops in a low point game.  Therefore, he began developing a list that would value durability and high-end anti-tank punch.  The result is a 1K core that I will begin play testing this weekend.

Comments welcome.

[silverspindle]

this list looks meticulous and has obviously has much thought behind it
all those skimmers would be a nightmare at 1k
obviously your problems are negligible until you disembark one of those five man units
and if your troops are inside you must rely only on tankshock for clearing objectives

wish i had the models to be this mechanised, i imagine this would be a very fun elite list to use

[2quiet]

I have played similar lists to this at higher point levels, and they indeed work extremely well for KP denial and high-reliability scoring units.

What gives me concerns about this list is when you say that your Falcons will be your main offensive. I think you will find this to be problematic, as I think you will see that they get hit and shaken pretty much every turn. When I play, I basically regard any shots my falcons get (especially in a list which focuses on them so much as this) as an added, unexpected bonus.

This leaves you somewhat lacking in attacking power, however I am somewhat at a loss as to what to recomend about this. I think you will find that you will get a feeling for what is the best way to get agressive power by playing, and that this is probably the best course of action for you.

Having said that, I would be tempted to get rid of the farseers (or give them fortune if your keeping them) and throw in a fusion gun + power weapon toting autarch. This way you have three great threats against tanks, which your opponents seem to be taking a lot of, as well as a close combat threat.

I do like the list though, it looks strong. Please will you tell us how it fares? I'd be most interested. Good Luck.

[Schrodinger]

wish i had the models to be this mechanised, i imagine this would be a very fun elite list to use

Thanks, that's the hope.  I just find assembly and panting of vehicles to be more fun than infantry.  If the squad never disembarks, you'll never see that they haven't even been primed. 

What gives me concerns about this list is when you say that your Falcons will be your main offensive. I think you will find this to be problematic, as I think you will see that they get hit and shaken pretty much every turn...

Having said that, I would be tempted to get rid of the farseers (or give them fortune if your keeping them) and throw in a fusion gun + power weapon toting autarch.

I understand your concern regarding shaken Falcons, but the fix you have suggested would only give me one more gun, on a soft target, at the expense of the force multiplying Guides.

No worries though.  This list is not intended to remain at 1000 points.  This is just the core, and I will expand to fill those gaps as the play-testing dictates.

I do like the list though, it looks strong.

Thanks.

Please will you tell us how it fares? I'd be most interested.

That I shall.  This list is mainly an experiment for my friend, and I'll be utilizing these boards to publish the results.  It will be interesting to see this army evolve.

[2quiet]

Cool, good to hear you'll stay in touch.

With the fix thing, it is only one gun, but it is also on a high BS model which can target a separate vehicle to the squad they come from (yeah, this can be kinda dodgy- If you could squeeze in Feugan then we'd really be talking!), and there is the combat ability. I just think you will find guide a bit of a waste if your falcons end up as shooting as rarely as mine do. I think you would be better served with fortune if you are taking farseers, in order to re-roll skimer moving fast saves.

That will all be answered in playtesting though, it exists now only as theoretical hypothesising. Best wait till its tested to make any changes.

[Infinity]

I suppose if you are running against heavy tank lists them the list seems fine. And 3 Land Raiders in a 1000pts list just makes me think. What the...!

Orks and IG would be your main concerns i feel with the list though. I would rather have fortune on the seers to give your vehicles a re-rollable cover save.

[Gutstikk]

Let me begin by saying I feel this list is a pretty competent 1k core. I like how options were selected to keep you honest; limiting your palette keeps you from overextending itself.

Background: 1
You give a clear idea about who the list is meant to fight, how it will fight, and stick to a narrow range of units within that focus. You also describe what you want to do with the list during the course of the game. I think you've covered this area pretty well; readers will know what you intend and why.

Composition: .5
Your scoring units are okay for this level, but your KPs are a bit over what I'd consider optimal. Mechanized lists will generally have trouble with this though, it's not typically avoidable for them. You've got a good distribution of FOC slots but within those slots everything is duplicated, tending towards an "Achilles heel." You may find opponents who can deal with your transports can deal with everything else in the list no problem.

Utility: 1
This list is a paragon of a utility-based list. Every selection is optimized for morale at the 5-man minimum size, with not a single unnecessary upgrade. Units are designed strictly to do their job and no other. At the 1k level this kind of focus can be quite helpful, enabling you to ensure you don't waste time accomplishing your goals. I expect as long as you can choose your matchups you'll do quite well.

Flexibility: .5
There is flexibility present mostly through unit redundancy and terms of engagement. What units are present will only be capable of performing their specific task, and you lack numbers and assault capability which could cripple you in a bad matchup. The job here will be to sure you can keep the terms of engagement under your control and get the right units to the right targets all at once.

Ingenuity: .75
You've covered all the bases except for your army's weaknesses, which, though blatant [close combat and numbers], you ought to make an effort to address. A good matchup should be easily won with this list since it is so focused. A bad matchup needs some planning ahead or you'll get slaughtered. You do have a plan in effect as to how you'll approach the enemy in general - this is important with such a strict list. You've also described how your units will work together [or separately]. I especially like the dual farseers with guide - how often is guide even chosen any more? While it is one of the harder powers to take advantage of, it is the one you can most easily plan for using [well, that and fortune], and you have lots of units to cast it on. I also really like the minimalist feel to the army.

Total score: 3.75
This is a solid army list, which could be greatly enhanced by an understanding of coming to grips with possible vulnerabilities it exhibits. Just shy of a 4.0 and mostly due to some missing information that could have been included. I hope to hear back about how well it performs!

[Schrodinger]

3 Land Raiders in a 1000pts list just makes me think. What the...!

The fear is actually 3 Land Raiders in a 1500 point list.  I'm building at 1000 right now so that I know where the next 250, 500, etc. need to go.

Orks and IG would be your main concerns i feel with the list though. I would rather have fortune on the seers to give your vehicles a re-rollable cover save.

We'll see this weekend.  I have a friend who has agreed to give me three trials, one each with Space Marines, Orks, and Imperial Guard. 

Mind if I use this list as a potential candidate for a review?

Please do.  I'd be honored.

[silverspindle]

when you do expand, i think it would be very fun to see a third falcon
i agree about making up vehicle kits being fun, my new serpent is coming together smoothly
got to start 2 warwalkers after that too!

[Schrodinger]

The current candidates for expansion (to 1250) are either:

3 War Walkers with Eldar Missile Launchers
Upgrade one Fire Dragon in each squad to Exarch
 give both Exarchs a Dragon Breath Flamer

or

Buy one 10-man Storm Guardian Squad
  give them two melta-guns
  and a spear/destructor lock
  mount them in a Wave Serpent like the others.

The first gives me much more flexibility.
The second gives more speed, durability, and an extra scoring unit.
But I'd need to buy another Serpent.

At 1750, I'll probably end up with the Walkers and two of the Guardians.  Still, this all is subject to change based upon the play-testing.

[Infinity]

I would go with the first addition.

Reason, because missile launchers are great at firing at antitank and anti infantry. I would use them more for anti infantry however because you have alot of antitank already.

Edit- just to quickly add in that for a 1500 point list the 1st and 2nd additions combined would make for a nice 1500 list.

[Schrodinger]

Played my first trial game vs. a infantry heavy Imperial Guard player this week with surprisingly good results.  Battle Report has been posted.

Also, thanks to Gutstikk for his Review.

[nesbitt_bub1]

Against Heavy mech and Tripple LR in 1K you can go wrong with a 350Pnts seer council on bikes. Farseer fortune, 4 warlocks, 2 destructor, 1 enhance, 1 embolden, spiritseer on the destructor lock to help would allocation and first turn with the WL.

The last game i played at this points size was IG, 2 bombards, 2 valk vendetta W/ vets, 30 man Ig platoon 3 Autocannon teams. and a Hq.

The seer council Dealt with both tanks, Both valks, And the 30 man Guard unit. They took 0 casualties.


In retrospect against 3 LR's they would be just as effective. I'd probably Drop the Dragons, Beef up the avengers, Then add a wraithlord with BL EML, or stick a couple of vibrocannons in there. Vibros been a solid choice in low points games where shaking a tank is needed to get the actual anti tank over the board.


Your 4 skimmer list would have gone down like a sack of spuds to the IG list. Once the tanks get shaken it's game over as you wouldn't have the shooting or CC effectiveness to deal with troops.

[Gutstikk]

The list is a lot better than you might think at first glance, though it does have its weaknesses. It's all about getting a first strike and target priority. The skimmers can perform just fine when shaken since they're mostly about getting the right tool to the right target.

Not an easy list to use by any means, but interesting and very, very unforgiving.

[Iram]

I read the battle report, nice job. I think SM will give you more trouble however, that is unless you move your tanks, decreasing your shooting. Also i don't see how this list would work if you find yourself with all the objectives and your opponent is just sitting on one as your tanks are quick they are good for charging into the enemies lines at the end but if they need to sit still in your own lines you will get hammered. Also there isn't enough AP against Space Marines but you should do well against any mech army.

[Schrodinger]

I read the battle report, nice job.

Thanks.

Also i don't see how this list would work if you find yourself with all the objectives and your opponent is just sitting on one as your tanks are quick they are good for charging into the enemies lines at the end but if they need to sit still in your own lines you will get hammered.

I had considered that.  My solution is to place my own objectives as close to the enemy as possible, encouraging him to focus on claiming objectives in the early game.  That way I can just take them back in the late game.  By pushing up the objectives, I will face a more static opponent. 

Once I have the mobility advantage, I can actually slow my skimmers while retaining the defense of a 4+ cover.  Think LoS sniping from 4th ed.  I can slowly shift  around a piece of terrain, getting a clear view of only the targeted unit, while remaining obscured from the bulk of the enemy force.

Also there isn't enough AP against Space Marines

This actually works well in concert with my desire for an immobile enemy.  If the 3+ save is in 4+ cover does it really matter how many of my weapons are AP2?

[moc065]

Army Size:  1000 points
Army Type:  Fully Mechanized Eldar
Opposition:  Heavy Mechanized (Triple Land Raiders)

The List

(75)    Farseer
              Guide
(75)    Farseer
              Guide

(60)    5 Dire Avengers
(60)    5 Dire Avengers

(175)  Falcon
              Two Shuriken Cannon, Holo-Field, Spirit Stone
(175)  Falcon
              Two Shuriken Cannon, Holo-Field, Spirit Stone

(80)    5 Fire Dragons
(80)    5 Fire Dragons

(110)   Wave Serpent (Dedicated to Fire Dragons)
              TL Shuriken Cannon, Spirit Stone
(110)   Wave Serpent (Dedicated to Fire Dragons)
              TL Shuriken Cannon, Spirit Stone

Can I say its a load of Min/Max crap that gives Eldar a bad name as One Trick Ponies... Sorry that popped out before I put the censor on.

Anyway, the units are pretty utilitarian and they can work well together; however, it might serve you well for some enemies, etc.. But, I don't see you enjoying the list for long though, and some guys will tear it apart in seconds.. Here is how:
Shake 4 items, hope one goes down ~ repeat as needed to pick the units apart as they exit their coffins Serpents. Do you need a more discriptive tactical assessment, or does that get the point across.

I would trim out one unit to get some decent gear and numbers in the rest of the army... good luck casting Guide when you face an opposing Psycher army, and double good luck when you face off vs something that can move and shoot as well or better than you can... and has better reserve options, etc...

CaHG

[g00gle5]

Can I say its a load of Min/Max crap that gives Eldar a bad name as One Trick Ponies... Sorry that popped out before I put the censor on.

Anyway, the units are pretty utilitarian and they can work well together; however, it might serve you well for some enemies, etc.. But, I don't see you enjoying the list for long though, and some guys will tear it apart in seconds.. Here is how:
Shake 4 items, hope one goes down ~ repeat as needed to pick the units apart as they exit their coffins Serpents. Do you need a more discriptive tactical assessment, or does that get the point across.

I would trim out one unit to get some decent gear and numbers in the rest of the army... good luck casting Guide when you face an opposing Psycher army, and double good luck when you face off vs something that can move and shoot as well or better than you can... and has better reserve options, etc...

CaHG

I was like that when I first saw the list but after some thought and reading the other poster's comments I feel that the list is a lot stronger than I first anticipated and it is clearly for competetive gaming so the min/max aspect isn't really an issue.

The thing is if I knew this was the kind of 1k list I would be facing I would be fielding just as nasty a list on the other side of the board. I'm thinking if it was facing 3 Ionheads and 2/3 Warfish with Min Pathfinders and Fire Warriors. You'd have to commit the Fire Dragons sooner rather than later and once you had they would be punished severely, leaving you with AT problems again. It'd make it no easy task to reach the Ionheads either. 

[moc065]

I generally only make all comers lists... so I wouldn't even bother to tailor vs the above list mentioned... To each their own; but I feel it lacks style, character, imagination, and I would face it with my All comers Saim-Hann lists any day of the week. I might not hammer it outright; but I don't think I would poorly against it either.

It might be ok in a tournie; but probably not vs an equal or better general and it wil score zero for Comp.... almost every time, and not much more for Sportsmanship.

CaHG

[CallumS]

If you have a successful core in your army, that is well tested and works, why not flesh out those elements with numbers and an exarch when you expand to 1.5k? Do you feel it would work to place the Dragons in the Falcons, up the Avengers to 10 with an Exarch in the Serpents (you'll probably need the added weight to clear objectives in larger games anyway), and then add in some close combat support of whatever kind you wish with your remaining points?

I think it'd work pretty well, and it'd help with your comp. score/general feel of the army. It'll probably cost you less money too.