Topic: Pheonix Lords

[Eldar Viking]

Hello,

I have noticed from reading the posts on this forum that Pheonix Lords seem to be shunned in favour of Autarchs. However I am having a friendly game against Grey Knights next week and feel like putting one in. Does anyone ever use them and if so which would you recomend I use?

[THE Dwarf]

Depends, if you ask me, what Aspects you are planning to have in your army
As you don't want a Phoenix Lord on their own running around

I have never used any Phoenix lord in a game
Bar a large scale 40k game and needed to fill in points so used Karandaras (Didn't end well sadly)

Anyway, back to topic...
Off hand I would suggest Asurmen, mainly as you can least try and compete with their force weapons
You may be lucky enough to down their Character if they fail a Leadership test
that includes the Eternal Warrior, Drago
As Dire Sword is not instant death - just remove from play

So that who I would go for personally
And with all them power weapons EVERYWHERE you will need an Inv. save
Else first combat your Phoenix lord may be dead, or well on his/her way to the Infinity Circuit

[Eldar Viking]

Not sure what aspects I'm going to use yet. Was going to pick a Phenix Lord, pick a squad of their aspect then build my army around that. Suppose if I want to keep away from their Force weapons I could take a "shooty" Pheonix Lord such as Maugan Ra. Could also take Bahroth but not so sure Hawks would be any good against meq and teq troops.

[Aoitora]

I suppose it depends on the GK list as well. Are they running a pure GK force or an inquisition one? If its against =I= then I think all lords would be viable and Id choose Karandras or possibly Baharroth. But against a pure GK force you're limited more so than usual for effectiveness.
Banshees still tear MEQs a new one and GK are just expensive MEQs thus Jain Zar would do well.
If you want to play a themed list, Maugan Ra and some Reapers will do wonders if you can get them out of their transports.
Asurmen will be ok but I think unless you have a dedicated CC unit he'll just get bogged down too much.
Irillyth would also be ok. Run him solo or with a squad of spectres which together combined have an ok amount of AP2/3 shooting.

My choice would be Jain Zar or Irillyth.

[Eldar Viking]

Not sure if I'm missing something but who is Irrilyth and what are spectres? They are not in the Codex.

[Khorne25]

Irrylith and Shadow Spectres are Foregeworld units new in Imperial Armour 11 (Forge World - IRILLYTH PHOENIX LORD OF THE SHADOW SPECTRES)

I would suggest Maugan Ra as a solid fire support choice.

[cor]

hey, i use a phoenix lord as an HQ on a regular basis.  i've uses karandaras and baharroth before in a few games but didn't have much luck.  anything with a power wep in cc is going to be gunning for those 2 from the start and w/o an inv save they die fast.  the one i use most ofen as is my favorite of the lords is Asurmen.  if you put him into a squad of avengers with an exarch equiped with PW:SS paired with a farseer with doom and fortune makes for a very resilient and powerful squad in both cc and shooty.  I've used a squad like this to down down drago with a squad of palidans and also lysander with a squad of assult termies mulitiple times.  I find that i rarly loose cc with asurmen so if you were looking to use a pheonix lord i suggest using him with with a farseer but don't plan on having much points left over for the rest of your army lol.  good luck 

[Isaac]

The case for Maugan Ra is a compelling one.

At so-and-so amount of points, the players gets a lot of utility from a single unit. Most players keep him in cover, and use his multiple firing modes to the greatest advantage.

His Crack Shot ability, paired with his weapon: Guardsmen in cover? *pewpewpew* No cover now! This is also particularly useful in games of Apocalypse if the opponent deploys an anti-psychic beacon or similar strategem.

Fast  Shot: Used in cover, he's useful for attacking low-value armor targets like Land Speeders and Rhinos. His rending ability gives a chance to put the heat on Terminators and Daemon Princes.

Since he's equipped with an Executioner (from the Howling Banshees), he gets a strength bonus and a power weapon. Paired with his initiative, he can pounce out of cover and overwhelm something small(ish) if he needs to. Or run and assist another unit responding to a powerful deep-strike. But don't charge him and others into cover!

All in all, he makes for several different roles on the table, and is worth consideration.

[Ginger farseer]

I think that against pure Grey Knights that either Maugan ra or assuman are the only viable options. You will be facing many power weapons and thus you need an invulnerable save (asurman) or to mainly stay out of combat (Maugan ra). However, Maugan ra's gun has always struck me as below par for an X point model, so I'd recommend asurman, with a squad of dire avengers.

[magenb]

I wouldn't discount Jain Zar up with a full squad of banshee's, exarch with Executioner, save points by not taking any powers, you get them from Jain Zar anyway.
before charging Use her Silent Death stats removed
On Charge 6 x high strength power weapon attacks, plus the exarchs
Add a Farseer with Doom and fortune.

While this is rather nasty, no matter which way you cut it, taking a Pheonix Lord is going to be the linch pin of your army in non Apoc battles, so if the unit falls your going to have a very hard time.

[mod]Please don't post unit/weapon stats, it's against the forum rules - Iris[/mod]

[Eldar Viking]

Struggling to decide between Jain Zar and Maugan Ra so think I will use Jain Jar as I haven't used Banshees for a while and I think their ability to strike first in the first round of combat will leave a lot of dead Grey Knights in their wake.

Thanks for all the ideas.

[XavianBlacksoul]

I think the reason for not seeing many pheonix lords on the boards is the cost. At 1500 or lower points you just can't make a balanced list and include them, it's still difficult at 2000. Most people need the Farseer for doom/guide etc or the Autarch for it's reserve bonus, which means that adding a pheonix lord makes the HQ section around the 300pt mark, which from my point of view takes too much away from the other areas of my list.

Having said the previous point i did use one the other day. I used Fuegan and I have to say he was brilliant, stone cold stella. I dropped him with a unit of Dragons and took out a whole unit of Plague marines/Defiler/rhino and some termies, not bad for a day's work. If they had an Inv save like the one in IA11 I think you would see them more often.

All in all good but far to expensive for their abilities.

[Eldar Viking]

I did think of Fuegan to give my Dragons more survivability but I'm thinking of putting in 2 small units and I think he would be better in a single larger unit and using them in an anti tank and anti terminator role. I think I'd rather keep them primeraly anti tank.

[GuardianBob]

Well, the problems with phoenix lords are basically two:
1. far too expensive. You could get a whole other appropriate unit for the cost which would probably be better in all regards due to not being a single model;
2. no invulnerable save (except for asurmen who is otherwise a vastly overpriced exarch). they have eternal warrior, but it is not that difficult to take them down particularly in cc.

Maugan Ra is probably the 'best' one as he makes full use of his stats by having a heavy weapon and a good cc weapon. Should not go with his own aspect, oddly. He can't do much sat at the back. He works well with some harlies, though he should split off before assaulting so he doesn't nix their USRs.

The best use of hq units in general is to improve the whole army. hence why farseers and eldrad are most used (dispite eldrad's cost) and to a lesser extent autarchs for the reserve shinanegins.

There are pretty good reviews of the lords (and indeed the codex) on the 3++ website.

Edit: Karandas can also be quite good as he can kill anything in cc and do sneaky things. Still suffers from both points above.

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