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Offline AndreSTL

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Is this the end?
« on: February 11, 2016, 01:09:36 AM »
There are some pretty disturbing or perhaps exciting things happening in the 40k universe. Many speculate that GW or "Warhammer" now, will soon be doing an similar end times with 40k as they have done with the new age of sigmar.

I was wonderinging what you guys think about it?

Do you see anything like I do? ( Wulfen are supposed to indicate something like the end times)

If there is a change, how do you see our beloved orks fairing?

Myself, I cannot help but think that this has been a nice edition, perhaps not the greatest codex  or perhaps just not great for close combat armies. But I like my hobby. And I don't want anyone sigmarizing it!

I'm not sure the change will be good but I remain cautiously optimistic that they won't destroy their cashcow that is 40k!



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Offline Spectral Arbor

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Re: Is this the end?
« Reply #1 on: February 11, 2016, 06:54:13 AM »
Orks never lose, so they'll be fine. :)

Having played the same background fluff, having advanced that fluff, then edit/undoing that fluff [the whole eye of terror campaign is now a "What-if" scenario] I'd be excited for a change.

Truthfully, if 40k got Sigmar'd I'd be the first in line to help craft the 41st age of 40k, like 9th age has been done for Warhammer. Lulz. I think I'd be so good at it, I'm looking forward to it!

I don't really see that happening, though. GW makes enough models and money off of 40k that I can't imagine them changing their money maker too much, too quickly.

Offline AndreSTL

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Re: Is this the end?
« Reply #2 on: February 12, 2016, 12:48:53 PM »
Agreed, the Orks never lose!

I'm all for the advancement of the Fluff and story line! I think that arrogant Emperor has been alive far too long! (As a White Scars player I can say that; they dont believe him to be a God anyway!) 

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Offline OD from TV

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Re: Is this the end?
« Reply #3 on: February 12, 2016, 01:48:09 PM »
If (or when) GW does an End Times style event for 40k, there will be a lot of upheaval throughout the whole 40k range.  When it finishes off though, I'll be done with in store games and from then on play exclusively home games using old rules.  Never thought I'd be one of those angry old men who didn't want to continue to the next edition, then they brought out the 7th Ed Ork book which reminded me exactly why I stopped playing Chaos when they got their inferior 4th Ed book.

As it sits now, if they do an End Times I can see the writers almost forgetting about the Orks and then rushing to tack them in.  To that end I don't think they'd put all the Ork characters into the storyline.  What I can see them doing is a page or two about Ghaz building up forces and about to crush face, but then unexpectedly dies at the hands of some unexpected foe, such as a new big bad or a Primarch that just randomly appears kills Ghaz like a sniveling Grot and changes the outcome of the battle.

Not what I would like to see, but what I feel is the most likely.  While Orks were the original 40k antiheros fighting against the Imperium, the current core writer group aren't fans.  Case in point where in the new codex they poorly word how the Imperium doesn't know how the Orks reproduce and they might just fall thru holes in the universe or split in two like tapeworms.

Ultimately if they do an End Times for 40k, the only thing that I would really like to see is the Void Dragon breaking out of his prison underneath Mars and start tearing apart the Adeptus Mechanicus.  Or the Ad Mech just blindly follow him as he is their Omnissiah.

I suppose it would also be cool if GW follows the breadcrumbs they sprinkled in the Iyanden book that Iyanna Arienal will sacrifice the entire Craftworld to bring Ynnead to life and put an end to Slannesh.  Lets all be honest, GW really doesn't want that god/goddess of pleasure to exist anymore as he/she is too adult themed.

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Offline Alienscar

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Re: Is this the end?
« Reply #4 on: February 12, 2016, 02:35:02 PM »
Quote from: White Dwarf 106, page 5
"As the Time of Ending draws near, the Wulfen burst from the Warp all across the galaxy...."

Time of Ending rather than End of Times. I am not a follower of 40k fluff so I have no idea what the Time of Ending of Wolftime is all about. It would appear that the fluff is advancing but who knows if this necessarily means a change to the game itself. As far as I am aware the game has never really followed the fluff. I mean how could it? every armies Codex has stories about how unbeatable that army is but then Orks run away and DE can get shot down by anyone with a gun.Nobody, other than the people that bought the new models, would really miss the Wulfen if they got wiped out straight away so maybe they have been reintroduced as props just to advance the story a bit.
If other rumours are true the biggest change coming is the release of formations/campaigns instead of Codicies. No more points?
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Offline Grand Master Lomandalis

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Re: Is this the end?
« Reply #5 on: February 12, 2016, 03:20:11 PM »
40k has been at "The Time of Ending" for at least 4 editions when they advanced the timeline to 999.999.M41 during the Eye of Terror campaign.

Personally, my view is that they are using the Time of Ending to bring an air of desperation and finality to the fluff of the game.  I have a hard time believing they will do to 40k what they did with Sigmar.  For years Fantasy had lagged behind 40k and it needed a revitalization.  As much as the older gamers were not fans of the change, Age of Sigmar has done wonders for their fantasy business.  The manager at my local GW has said he can not keep the starter boxes on the shelves.  He will get 4 or 5 in a week and they will be gone before the weekend.  Even my LGS before the Warhammer store opened was saying the same thing.  Age of Sigmar really saw an improvement to the fantasy sales that it was sorely lacking.
If there is anything that recent politics has taught us, it is that quotes taken out of context can mean what ever you want them to.
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Re: Is this the end?
« Reply #6 on: February 12, 2016, 04:30:31 PM »
For years Fantasy had lagged behind 40k and it needed a revitalization.  As much as the older gamers were not fans of the change, Age of Sigmar has done wonders for their fantasy business.  The manager at my local GW has said he can not keep the starter boxes on the shelves.  He will get 4 or 5 in a week and they will be gone before the weekend.  Even my LGS before the Warhammer store opened was saying the same thing.  Age of Sigmar really saw an improvement to the fantasy sales that it was sorely lacking.

I'm very happy to read this.  Me and my friend got ours a couple of weeks ago (the results of which will be posted on the site asap), and it's great to hear how well it's doing.  Because yes, it is actually a better executed idea.

As for 40k, it doesn't need the same treatment.  All they need to do is to get a 7th edition Codex for the forces that don't have one yet and to make more supplements and such.  Although, if the missing Primarchs started to show up again I would be OK with it.

Offline Grand Master Lomandalis

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Re: Is this the end?
« Reply #7 on: February 12, 2016, 05:28:26 PM »
GW has developed rules for the Primarchs, but they have them in the Forgeworld supplements for the Heresy to keep them where they belong - in the 31st millenium.

Punting this over to General 40k as it really pertains to all of 40k and not just the Orks.
If there is anything that recent politics has taught us, it is that quotes taken out of context can mean what ever you want them to.
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Offline Ork E Nuff

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Re: Is this the end?
« Reply #8 on: February 12, 2016, 05:29:20 PM »
The End of Times...interesting ...

For orks, what does that really mean?  Like OD said, we've been relegated to the periphery for years...We've been passé for so long, most have forgotten what it was like to be a primary player (correct me if I'm wrong, and I'm sure that there are those who will, but we haven't been in the limelight since Codex: Armageddon...those were halcyon days...).  Having said that, look at the treatment orks are finally getting from Black Library with the Beast Rising series.  Personally, I'll keep playing when I can, converting as I want, and collecting the odd bits and pieces consistently regardless of what happens...Whatever happens, our race will still be the winners, 'cause we never lose...we never retreat...We adapt and keep coming back for more...

AoS treatment of 40k wouldn't be the death knell that everyone on other forums are carping about.  The real losers would be those who rely on shenanigans and power lists to "win at any cost".  I'd enjoy a bring all ya got and fight until someone cries "uncle" fight...haven't had that kind of fun in years...

As an aside, I do have a fledgling SM force, Howling Griffons, so I'm not too concerned...

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Offline Grand Master Lomandalis

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Re: Is this the end?
« Reply #9 on: February 13, 2016, 12:02:27 AM »
We've been passé for so long, most have forgotten what it was like to be a primary player (correct me if I'm wrong, and I'm sure that there are those who will, but we haven't been in the limelight since Codex: Armageddon...those were halcyon days...).

If we're talking fluff, then yeah... Armageddon.
If there is anything that recent politics has taught us, it is that quotes taken out of context can mean what ever you want them to.
Well I always liked the globals...
I knew I had fans!!!

Quote
"Dark Angels are Traitors" is the 40k equivalent of Flat Earthers.  You can provide all of the proof you want that says otherwise, but people just can't let it go...

Offline Foalchu

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Re: Is this the end?
« Reply #10 on: February 13, 2016, 09:40:44 AM »
If this is the end times, it looks like I made the right choice by playing a home brew craftworld.  That way even if they kill off all the names ones, my eldar will be on the edges of ultimate segmentum, minding their own business like usual.

Oddly, I've found my craftworld mentioned on the 40k wikis now, which is both amusing and pretty cool; I just hope it escapes GW's notice during this whole end times bit.
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Offline angel of death 007

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Re: Is this the end?
« Reply #11 on: February 27, 2016, 08:15:15 PM »
Rumor is that Walmart and target will be carrying very simple ork and space marine box sets for this winter (Christmas Season). 

I hope to god we can get an 8th edition that can get us back to the all around greatness of 5th edition.   The tournaments rocked. 

6th edition started to kill 40k for me.  7th was the icing on the cake, especially with how much they screwed orks.   Many of the local gamers at my LGS gave up on 40k almost a year ago.   

Now 40k just got a recent surge at our LGS due to playing kill team which is growing in popularity in our area. 

To me they put too many fantasy elements into 40k...  ditch the challenge bull crap (who is going to call out a challenge when bullets and rockets are flying past them), ditch the magic phase, revamp overwatch or eliminate it and for the love of god streamline the rules.   This rules on top of rules stuff is rediculous.   Get back to the models not the codexes and supplements.   Keep the novels seperate from the game play.

I honestly think GW needs an overhaul with the possiblity of releasing in major retail stores in the US a simplified version of the rules would work best at getting people into the hobby.  I used to drop 200 bucks a month religiously up til the middle of 6th.  But these fancy nice hardback codexes are getting replaced too fast and I spend more time looking up rules then playing the game.  I still spend the money but it has gone into different gaming systems.   

I miss my 1850 and 2000 point tournaments and the lovely ard boyz of the past.  :'(

Offline Grand Master Lomandalis

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Re: Is this the end?
« Reply #12 on: February 27, 2016, 08:33:52 PM »
I honestly think GW needs an overhaul with the possiblity of releasing in major retail stores in the US a simplified version of the rules would work best at getting people into the hobby. 
They have that.  It's called Age of Sigmar.
If there is anything that recent politics has taught us, it is that quotes taken out of context can mean what ever you want them to.
Well I always liked the globals...
I knew I had fans!!!

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"Dark Angels are Traitors" is the 40k equivalent of Flat Earthers.  You can provide all of the proof you want that says otherwise, but people just can't let it go...

Offline angel of death 007

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Re: Is this the end?
« Reply #13 on: February 28, 2016, 07:36:17 PM »
well then have it for 40k.   I know a lot of people who dislike age of sigmar, I never played it so I can't rock the boat either way.

Offline Spectral Arbor

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Re: Is this the end?
« Reply #14 on: February 28, 2016, 10:05:27 PM »
Were you a sentient being, and not a computer simulation, I'd come after you with stakes and garlic for saying such things. Instead, powerful magnets will have to do. ;)

I'd say that 40k could do with a reboot 3rd edition style... simplify. But not Age of Sigmar. Never that.

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Re: Is this the end?
« Reply #15 on: February 29, 2016, 05:52:00 AM »
I think that a revamp of 40K is the last thing that is needed in the short term.  The quick change from sixth to seventh edition has not, based on what I have seen, brought more people into the game.  In fact, it seems to have had the opposite effect.  This has never been a cheap hobby, so changing the rules on a regular basis isn't wise in my opinion.

As for what could happen when the next rule change comes along, I would hesitate to speculate that they will follow the Age of Sigmar route.  The paths for what used to be Fantasy and 40K diverged back when third edition 40K came around, so making a comparison between the two does not seem overly fruitful to me.  I would like to think that GW comes to realise that the current army selection criteria and the unit types available have both gone too far and that a more third to fifth edition style of army selection and composition is required, but I feel that's unlikely.
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Offline Alienscar

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Re: Is this the end?
« Reply #16 on: February 29, 2016, 11:00:16 AM »
Rumor is that Walmart and target will be carrying very simple ork and space marine box sets for this winter (Christmas Season). 

Isn't the Battle For Vedros already available?


To me they put too many fantasy elements into 40k...  ditch the challenge bull crap (who is going to call out a challenge when bullets and rockets are flying past them), ditch the magic phase, revamp overwatch or eliminate it and for the love of god streamline the rules. This rules on top of rules stuff is rediculous. Get back to the models not the codexes and supplements.   Keep the novels seperate from the game play.

I wholeheartedly agree with everything you say 007. I associate challenges/duels with chivalry and hardly any of the factions in 40k can truly say that they have honour as a driving force. As you say it feels totally out of place for challenges to be occurring in the middle of modernish warfare.

I also agree with you regarding the rules. Over one hundred pages of rules that are baffling in their complexity surely stand no chance of persuading anyone from the Facebook generation to take up 40K as a game.

I am not even sure that the Battle For Vedros will attract anyone from its target audience. Watching the video on how to play the game nearly put me to sleep.
My wife happily played the Battle For Macragge missions, Heroquest & even the Sabertooth 40K CCG that was but she is not interested in playing 40k. Somewhere amongst that lot must be a rules set that would appeal to my wife and probably a lot of other people.
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Offline angel of death 007

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Re: Is this the end?
« Reply #17 on: February 29, 2016, 06:10:30 PM »
@Alienscar....  I haven't seen it anywhere yet?  isn't even on GW website.   Looks like a repack of battle for McCragge to me.

wouldn't that be nice.  More orkies and hopefully the 5th edition rule.... One can only hope.

I watched the video.  Gameplay is very simplified.  Looks like they don't use AP or a lot of other advanced rules.   It might work.  Their target audience is a lot younger but seems to be a good way to start them off.   
« Last Edit: February 29, 2016, 07:50:28 PM by angel of death 007 »

Offline Grand Master Lomandalis

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Re: Is this the end?
« Reply #18 on: February 29, 2016, 10:29:18 PM »
I am not even sure that the Battle For Vedros will attract anyone from its target audience. Watching the video on how to play the game nearly put me to sleep.
My wife happily played the Battle For Macragge missions, Heroquest & even the Sabertooth 40K CCG that was but she is not interested in playing 40k. Somewhere amongst that lot must be a rules set that would appeal to my wife and probably a lot of other people.
What about Betrayal at Calth, Execution Force, and Deathwatch?  Those are all 40k based games with simpler rules to get people into the hobby.  Betrayal at Calth is also a fantastic buy for anyone wanting to buy into Marines.
If there is anything that recent politics has taught us, it is that quotes taken out of context can mean what ever you want them to.
Well I always liked the globals...
I knew I had fans!!!

Quote
"Dark Angels are Traitors" is the 40k equivalent of Flat Earthers.  You can provide all of the proof you want that says otherwise, but people just can't let it go...

Offline Alienscar

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Re: Is this the end?
« Reply #19 on: March 1, 2016, 10:40:59 AM »
Betrayal at Calth is also a fantastic buy for anyone wanting to buy into Marines.

It is a fantastic buy GML but I am not sure that is how new players will look at. If we are talking about genuinely new players I wonder if their overall knowledge of 40K is going to be sufficient to allow them to think in the same way that you do about the game. Obviously the store manager could explain it but could you imagine how a new start would react to talk of 30K being able to be used in 40K.

All the games you have mentioned are board games and whilst they have simpler rules set I am not sure this works as an approach to get new people into the hobby of 40K. Personally I like the look of the models in Deathwatch but I am not prepared to spend £100 on something new. Also from my wife's experience the simpler rules set of Heroquest, Macragge & Space Crusade just resulted in 40K coming across as a totally different game that she found tedious by comparison.

I know people don't necessarily agree but I think cost is a barrier to entry as well. On Saturday just gone I bought the Ork Start Collecting! box. Not because I needed the models but because £50 is a figure that I am happy spending on a game and beause it represents a bargain. from a new start point of view though £50 is just the beginning. Next thing they have to do is buy a Codex and a rule book. Worst of all they then have to read all of their content.

I am not sure if a return to fifth edition is possible or if that is even the answer but worryingly there is rumours of Formation only releases as the future of 40K.
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