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Offline Lyonic

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New Wraith Knight discussion
« on: November 22, 2015, 10:35:40 PM »
Hey all o/ so you must by now have seen the new wraithknights that are for sale now via forgeworld, with the rulebook realsed within the week. One seems to be a descent anti-tank while the other uses large templates to no doubt slay many infantry.

without speaking about specific stats etc, how do you feel about the wks? Do you think it was needed?

personally i love them. I feel eldar really struggled with not alot of options on a wk, but this lets you put the wk in a role now which i feel it didn't have before! So we have..

Combaty
Shooty Anti Tank
Shooty Anti Infantry
Shooty Knight Killer

Not going to credit the suncannon as its pretty obsolete now, if it wasent before...
« Last Edit: November 22, 2015, 10:39:29 PM by Lyonic »

Offline Spectral Arbor

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Re: New Wraith Knight discussion
« Reply #1 on: November 22, 2015, 11:07:06 PM »
I feel eldar really struggled with not alot of options on a wk,

No, really, stop. I think I'm gonna pee myself. Eldar struggled. WK not good enough. Oh, man, it happened. Time for new shorts.

I'm looking forward to facing the Chrono-Inversion cannon equipped WK. You know, the one where you shoot it, and your opponent gets to go back to the time before they put models down, and then do something else instead?

But in all seriousness, it's good to see that the Eldar now have more powerful WK. I'm not sure how they were getting by without it. I sure hope that Spider-Knight gets Flicker-Jump! 'Cause Grav is cheese, ammirite!?!?

Offline Fenris

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Re: New Wraith Knight discussion
« Reply #2 on: November 23, 2015, 04:38:30 AM »
I think the wraithknight is one of the most over-(ab)used units in the eldar codex.

And it's not due to what weapons it can wield, they are in comparison inconsequential.
It's a huge bullet sponge, that can bounce around the battlefield like "The incredible hulk".
I think this is only greed and FW wants to sell more miniatures, which in itself is fine, but when the rules and game balance suffers for it, it's no fun anymore. FW should make awesome models aesthetically, not by tailoring the rules.

I feel it's like they do not want us to play eldar, because either eldar gets neglected for 7 years (4th ed codex) or they get overpowered (2nd ed & 7th ed codex).
Some parents even use this strategy to scare away their children from candy, alcohol and tobacco.
It's called "The ketchup effect" first you get nothing out of the bottle, then nothing, then still nothing, then everything all at once.

I'd rather save some eldar love for 8th ed.
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Offline Lyonic

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Re: New Wraith Knight discussion
« Reply #3 on: November 23, 2015, 05:05:19 AM »
I feel eldar really struggled with not alot of options on a wk,

No, really, stop. I think I'm gonna pee myself. Eldar struggled. WK not good enough. Oh, man, it happened. Time for new shorts.

I'm looking forward to facing the Chrono-Inversion cannon equipped WK. You know, the one where you shoot it, and your opponent gets to go back to the time before they put models down, and then do something else instead?

But in all seriousness, it's good to see that the Eldar now have more powerful WK. I'm not sure how they were getting by without it. I sure hope that Spider-Knight gets Flicker-Jump! 'Cause Grav is cheese, ammirite!?!?


actually if you have seen the rules, I think you are greatly over exaggerating how effective the WK's new toys can be. And lets make one thing clear, the Wraithknight is undercosted, not overpowered. Also, Grav weapons ARE cheese. They will insta delete any unit off the board with their grav amps and chapter rerolls. The only unit we have like that is scythes... And we have to get in range to use them which isn't always easy.

I think the wraithknight is one of the most over-(ab)used units in the eldar codex.

And it's not due to what weapons it can wield, they are in comparison inconsequential.
It's a huge bullet sponge, that can bounce around the battlefield like "The incredible hulk".
I think this is only greed and FW wants to sell more miniatures, which in itself is fine, but when the rules and game balance suffers for it, it's no fun anymore. FW should make awesome models aesthetically, not by tailoring the rules.

I feel it's like they do not want us to play eldar, because either eldar gets neglected for 7 years (4th ed codex) or they get overpowered (2nd ed & 7th ed codex).
Some parents even use this strategy to scare away their children from candy, alcohol and tobacco.
It's called "The ketchup effect" first you get nothing out of the bottle, then nothing, then still nothing, then everything all at once.

I'd rather save some eldar love for 8th ed.


well, there have been plenty of games where my WK has sat back shooting away getting nothing the whole game. Or when i charge my WK in for action and its useless. I for one am in favour of non D alternatives as I don't like the random D6 being its only outlet. The firepower from atleast one of the new toys is less that a squad of warwalkers with bright lances so its really not so OP. I am getting kinda tired of everyone telling me how every other codex is weak compared to Eldar its simply not true.
« Last Edit: November 23, 2015, 05:06:38 AM by Lyonic »

Offline Spectral Arbor

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Re: New Wraith Knight discussion
« Reply #4 on: November 23, 2015, 07:05:00 AM »

And lets make one thing clear, the Wraithknight is undercosted, not overpowered. Also, Grav weapons ARE cheese. They will insta delete any unit off the board with their grav amps and chapter rerolls. The only unit we have like that is scythes... And we have to get in range to use them which isn't always easy.

I am getting kinda tired of everyone telling me how every other codex is weak compared to Eldar its simply not true.

Oh, it's starting to hurt now. Please, my sides hurt.

I don't know how to explain that undercosted = overpowered. They're different sides of the same coin. Grav Weapons are powerful, but generally expensive. They have a niche that one could claim is more or less the same as Plasma Guns. You want to go after high value, good save infantry. Kind of like "D" weapons. On Wraithguard. Fire Dragons are similarly equipped. And you have Spiders that can jump back out of range. And the whole 20 scatter bikes thing.

I mean, this is as serious as I can take someone complaining that the Eldar codex needs more powerful options. Or to be more flexible. It's just comic. If you're having a laugh at this, good job, 'cause you've got me hook, line and sinker!

Offline Cavalier

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Re: New Wraith Knight discussion
« Reply #5 on: November 23, 2015, 07:11:24 AM »
I'm stoked about the new Knight. Not only is it a visual upgrade to the original IMO, the weapons loadout and wargear is unreal. Furthermore they've cannonized Corsairs rocking Wraithknights which is great news for the fluff of my army! I wonder if they are going to hit on old school background of Wraithknights being first developed by Exodites? That'd be awesome.

While the heat-lance Knight looks the best IMO and is a walking firestorm, I think I'm going to go with the Deathspinner variant as a nasty surprise for my Necron opponents.

The general level of craziness in the game right now doesn't make me feel bad about popping anything on the table short of a Revenant Titan. In my Space Marine heavy meta, the Wraithknight while awesome rarely survives any game that goes beyond 5 turns. Whether its Grav-Cav, Skyhammer, Drop-Centurions, Draigo-Cent-Stars and the upcoming Raven Guard Vanguard Vet formation that his toughness is completely bypassed. For me I have to play him very carefully, using reserve manipulation to protect him and can't rely on him going the distance.

That being said I don't feel the need to play no-holds barred all the time. Opponents who play cut-throat get both barrels, other opponents I take the time to set thematic armies and missions which requires little more than 5 minutes of planning to setup a game appeal to the both of us. There are tons of ways to play the game, all is takes is a little communication and flexibility on the part of both parties and all the angst just washes away.
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Offline Lyonic

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Re: New Wraith Knight discussion
« Reply #6 on: November 23, 2015, 08:30:20 AM »

And lets make one thing clear, the Wraithknight is undercosted, not overpowered. Also, Grav weapons ARE cheese. They will insta delete any unit off the board with their grav amps and chapter rerolls. The only unit we have like that is scythes... And we have to get in range to use them which isn't always easy.

I am getting kinda tired of everyone telling me how every other codex is weak compared to Eldar its simply not true.

Oh, it's starting to hurt now. Please, my sides hurt.

I don't know how to explain that undercosted = overpowered. They're different sides of the same coin. Grav Weapons are powerful, but generally expensive. They have a niche that one could claim is more or less the same as Plasma Guns. You want to go after high value, good save infantry. Kind of like "D" weapons. On Wraithguard. Fire Dragons are similarly equipped. And you have Spiders that can jump back out of range. And the whole 20 scatter bikes thing.

I mean, this is as serious as I can take someone complaining that the Eldar codex needs more powerful options. Or to be more flexible. It's just comic. If you're having a laugh at this, good job, 'cause you've got me hook, line and sinker!

Again its not just the weapon but the delivery and reliability. If i take 5 dscythes in a serpent, i have to go whatever i want to flame within 12"+ template, to the serpent. No easy task i can assure you.

grav weapons on the other hand coming down on drop pods are basically guarenteed to hit and kill.

I am not going to list all the op units in the game but be assured the wraithknight would not do so well against these units. Again its allwell saying firedragons OP, sure they are OP if you get them where they need to be or should i say if your opponent lets you..


nice post cav in with you super excited!

Offline Grand Master Lomandalis

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Re: New Wraith Knight discussion
« Reply #7 on: November 23, 2015, 11:28:24 AM »
I am not going to list all the op units in the game but be assured the wraithknight would not do so well against these units. Again its allwell saying firedragons OP, sure they are OP if you get them where they need to be or should i say if your opponent lets you.
The Wraithknight is OP because it does a fantastic job, even in death.  How much firepower does it take to drop a Wraithknight when an army does not have Grav weapons?  From experience, I have seen it take multiple turns of an entire army shooting at the thing to kill it.  And yeah, it may not kill much before it dies; but by distracting the entire enemy force for however long it takes to kill it, you are allowing the rest of the Eldar list to tear the enemy apart.  Considering that the Wraithknight clocks in at less than 300pts, that leaves plenty of Eldar army to kick some ass.

As for your point with the Fire Dragons...

3 units of 6 in an Aspect Host that are put in a squadron of 3 Falcons.  The Falcon is roughly 6" long, and if I am not mistaken, the three only have to be within coherency when they deep strike?  So if done right, that means your Fire Dragons can be placed anywhere within a 38" distance when they deep strike with no fear of a mishap.  Add in Run and their gun range, and they can take out units that are 56" apart.
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Offline sunstrider

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Re: New Wraith Knight discussion
« Reply #8 on: November 23, 2015, 02:55:23 PM »

And lets make one thing clear, the Wraithknight is undercosted, not overpowered. Also, Grav weapons ARE cheese. They will insta delete any unit off the board with their grav amps and chapter rerolls. The only unit we have like that is scythes... And we have to get in range to use them which isn't always easy.

I am getting kinda tired of everyone telling me how every other codex is weak compared to Eldar its simply not true.

Oh, it's starting to hurt now. Please, my sides hurt.

I don't know how to explain that undercosted = overpowered. They're different sides of the same coin. Grav Weapons are powerful, but generally expensive. They have a niche that one could claim is more or less the same as Plasma Guns. You want to go after high value, good save infantry. Kind of like "D" weapons. On Wraithguard. Fire Dragons are similarly equipped. And you have Spiders that can jump back out of range. And the whole 20 scatter bikes thing.

I mean, this is as serious as I can take someone complaining that the Eldar codex needs more powerful options. Or to be more flexible. It's just comic. If you're having a laugh at this, good job, 'cause you've got me hook, line and sinker!

Jesus tell us how you really feel. We get it, every response will be dripping in sarcasm.

I haven't checked out the rules yet for the new wraithknight options, but the model looks really cool, so I may even buy it for aesthetic purposes.

As a side note, does anyone know if the shadow spectres rules will be updated in the rewrite of the Doom of Mymeara book? Their rules where in the original Doom of Mymeara book and their rules haven't been updated for 7th yet. So all signs points to their rules getting updated in that book.

Offline Spectral Arbor

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Re: New Wraith Knight discussion
« Reply #9 on: November 23, 2015, 10:28:50 PM »
Oh, sweet jebus, my sides have actually torn open. I'm all Nurgley now. I thought Papa Nurgle was the funny one, but it turns out the Laughing God has graced the craftworlders after all. I do not drip. I flow from rents in my giggling, Nurgle-ated abdomen.

But I digress.

I can imagine how disappointing it could be to lose a 300 point model, after an entire army has shot at it for a few turns. It probably feels much like losing 300 points per turn, to Eldar, except spread out over most of the game. I know how much it sucks to get deleted in one turn... A Rhino, the Dudes inside, and a Dreadnought, all in one turn. Because Scatterbikes. Not even the "scary stuff" just the troops. Just imagine the agony of loosing one or two wounds from a WK, each turn, for several turns! The torture!

The models are nice. Maybe the FW versions will have a points hike to offset whatever shenanigans they get up to. But in all seriousness, that looks like a Warp Jump generator on it's back. Not a word of a lie, I would take 6 units of Warp Spiders in a game, and just laugh my ass off whenever someone tried to shoot me. I convinced my buddy to try them out, and we both laughed the whole game. Every time I tried to touch them, they just *poof* somewhere better and out of LOS. And he only had one unit!

I acknowledge that I'm fear mongering, but seriously, if a WK can start flicker jumping all over the place? What could an opponent do? Giggle? Shrug? Laugh till their insides fall out? There is *some* semblance of vague fairness in that, for it's price, the WK isn't as amazingly damage producing as the rest of the army. It probably won't delete a unit a turn, each turn it's in range of something. Unless you happen to hit a vehicle with both D-Guns in one turn. Or you 6-stomp a small unit in cc. Or you jump across the board and hit something with your sword... well... whatever. I don't think that WK need a "Win-More" option, is all I'm saying.

The models are nice. The rules are probably stupid. On the plus side, my buddy doesn't seem to like the WK. He bought 4 IK, instead. Yay 7th edition! :)

Offline Lyonic

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Re: New Wraith Knight discussion
« Reply #10 on: November 24, 2015, 03:03:47 AM »
There is alot of knights around my local meta, death stars too. I understand if you don't play competitively but really, most tournaments limit you to one WK. The pack on his back does NOT let you flickerjump. Once again, not having D weapons means alot to me... Since they ALWAYS get comped. If you are losing every game to eldar and don't have grav then that's not really the WK being op... There is loads of ways to deal with a wk too not just killing it.

as for spectres... I preordered the book so i should know by 27th, my guess is there will be tweaks.

Ive converted up my wk as i refuse to pay £35 for 2 guns and £70 for a wk ill never get to use because most tourneys limit you to one wk.


wk also got a points increase.

Offline Fenris

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Re: New Wraith Knight discussion
« Reply #11 on: November 24, 2015, 09:14:11 AM »
I have now got a glimpse of the rules for the Scathach WK and the artillery gun deathshroud is not that bad nor OP.
The webway shunt generator is just a crude jump-pack, which allows the knight to get out of danger, not into the fray.
I think there are some more intresting options than the WK in the new corsairs though, the aspect shrine which is rumoured to replace the 3x guardian units in the core hosts, seems both thematic and powerful.
The rumoured Splinter bikes is also going to be a thing, I'm guessing.
Still they could have waited with these options until 8th ed. It will only fuel the eldar hatred now, even further.

@Lyonic: I have stopped playing against people who always tilt the comp scores against eldar. This due to they will always hate eldar and always has, no matter what the current rules may be. I always suggest to these people that they should start playing a slaanesh army to reflect this. You should demand that they do not take any deathstars, MC or IK if you can't use your D-weapons. You should also demand that they ban Grav-weapons if they ban D-weapons.

I've seen bound armies consisting mainly of 3 FMC and 3 IK's, surely you must be allowed to take D-weapons against this, otherwise I wouldn't bother even placing my army on the table.
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Offline Lyonic

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Re: New Wraith Knight discussion
« Reply #12 on: November 24, 2015, 11:48:57 AM »
The trouble is most comps around here limit you to one WK but say you have 600 GMC.. So its like... Anyway, they rule that you always get a save against a dweapon. An invul. Even on a 6 i get to roll my 2+ or 3+ invul that some units have is just ridiculous.. This weapon has just ripped the fabric of space and time but hold on, 2+, k in fine next?


I got into 40k and the hobby around 5 months ago or a month before new eldar hit. I must say i get so much hate thrown at me just because i play eldar... Eldar filth etc all the time. I just want to play the game rofl. Really gets to me that i can face 6 helldrakes or a knight army... But im the filth? Grrrr!!!
« Last Edit: November 25, 2015, 02:54:01 AM by Lyonic »

Offline The Reborn

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Re: New Wraith Knight discussion
« Reply #13 on: November 26, 2015, 09:09:56 AM »
Personally, I'm done with feeling bad about fielding Wraithknights, or my Revenant.  A good friend of mine plays Tyranids, and feeling somewhat guilty about the perceived power of these units, I played a different list.  He used 7 Carnifexes with twin devourers, 2 flyrants with the same load-out, 80 gaunts dropping in 4 spores with devourers, 2 exocrines, 2 Mawlocs, a Harridan and 10 hiveguard.  He also used zoanthropes in spores....   :o

Without WK's in my list against this horde I felt, and WAS underpowered.  I think that in these days of knights, Stormsurges and the like, WK's are almost a leveller for us.  I find it hard to believe that there's still the same amount of scare-mongering going on concerning Eldar, after all this time, and given the fact that options which are just as nasty are now showing up for other armies.  D-weapons for instance can be nasty, but with the options for coversaves in the modern game (let alone Inv. saves), you can mitigate against these if you have half a brain.  A roll of 6 is still rockhard, but then a roll of 1 is nothing and just as likely.

People need to find other excuses for losing to Eldar, apart from Wraithknight this, and D-weapon that.
« Last Edit: November 26, 2015, 09:11:37 AM by The Reborn »

Offline Spectral Arbor

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Re: New Wraith Knight discussion
« Reply #14 on: November 26, 2015, 05:41:26 PM »
Hey now, WK are just one overpowered element from a long list of overpowered goodies the pointy-eared wonderkin enjoy. There are, as you say, plenty of excuses for losing to Eldar, outside of WK's.

This discussion just happens to focus on them, specifically. If the Necron boards were undead and well, there would no doubt be plenty of complaints about them, as well. :)

I'm not sure how WK's are a "leveler" though. One would need to be playing with equally powerful, or inferior rules in order to require any kind of "leveling". Your friend used the "power" pieces from the Tyranid codex, and yes, "power" is used in the wry form, here. I'm going to guess that you played a "casual" Eldar list, that wasn't geared to annihilate. And you probably still won? Just guessing? What would have happened if you "cheesed"? Again, my "quoted" descriptors should be taken wryly.

Any perspective that does not recognize that the Eldar dex is top 3, by a large margin, is a perspective of... denial. Maybe an Eldar player is just in it for the funzies. And maybe they like to use Rangers, because they don't understand the mechanics of the game very well. And maybe they run a CAD full of Dire Avengers on foot, because they were repeatedly hit in the head with a rubber hose as a child. And maybe, the Eldar player plays with 75% of the points limit against non-top-3 codices, because they feel that's a "leveler".

Eldar lists are easy to be powerful, without needing to "cheese". They're relatively cheap, for their rules. Yes, they're fragile, but the current codex gives you plenty of range and mobility to offset that. Used to be Eldar had to risk close encounters to bring their damage to bear. Yes, they were powerful, but failed gambits were costly. Now? Scatter bikes pops out of cover, dump 20 shots outside of retaliation range, and THEN jump out of LOS for added insult. Repeat for a couple turns, deplete your opposition, and then crush anything that remains with the close ranged "scary" stuff. The basics of a nigh-unbeatable list are as straight forward as the Khornate Rhino Rush of my youth.

Have fun with your toys, you bought them and you should enjoy them. Just don't be surprised when other players recognize an obvious disparity in power level. Try to make a list with any other codex, that approximates what an Eldar list could do. Try it, and see for yourself.

Offline The GrimSqueaker

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Re: New Wraith Knight discussion
« Reply #15 on: November 26, 2015, 06:06:18 PM »
How have the WKs been performing against the new Tau? The Stormsurges, for instance, are capable of some amusing filth as are other new component plays.
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Offline Spectral Arbor

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Re: New Wraith Knight discussion
« Reply #16 on: November 26, 2015, 07:33:02 PM »
While I haven't faced the new Tau yet, I took a look at the Stormsurge. If you take a Shield Generator, and a couple of cheap systems, The Pulse Drive Cannon [no brainer, to me] and a Burst Cannon / ABFP, you're spending roughly the same points as...

A Knight Paladin with Storm Spear Rockets [Double Tap Battle Cannon, Triple Krak Missile Launcher, and a D-CCW]

or

Wraithknight [Double D-Shot guns]
+ 5x Scatterbikes

So Stormsurge has downright laughable Toughness. And to really crank out the shots, you've got to wait a turn and then NOT MOVE. At which point anything that fears the hundred or so S 5 shots it will put out will get the duck out of Fodge. It can double-tap it's long-range Demolisher Cannon, but again, needs to have an opponent decide to stay in LOS. It has lots of wounds, I'll give it that. But basic marines have a chance to wound with Bolters, so any focused fire is going to start forcing saves. CC potential is Tauish... so nothing to worry about. Depending on whom you talk to, GMC have limited firing capabilities, so the excess of weapons is less amazing than it first seems.

Paladins have a versatile gun that always double-taps. Backed up with the triple krak, has 5 tries with high strength to punch through tough things. Sure, a 2+ save is going to shrug it off, but that's what Swords and Stomps are for. I'd say the Paladin is the better value on the whole. This ignores the benefits of pre-requisite markerlights, but in a vacuum, I think the Pally is the better value. More points is more points, as it goes, so markerlights benefit the Surge, while other points would benefit a Pally. Invisible Knight? Yes, please.

WK is just plain good times, for the price. At max strength, do you really need D-CCW? It's nice, but icing on a cake. It's mobile, ungodly tough, and still lets you take a squad of bikes that can output 20 s 6 shots, that are very difficult to counter. And it's all mobile. WK aren't the scariest thing in the world, but when you compare it to similar-ish models, you find out pretty quickly how cheap it is by comparison, and what the Eldar codex lets you do with 135 points. :)


No direct experience facing New-Tau, just experience with the last codex. I expect that Riptides are a better value than the Surge.



Yeah, you can buy two Riptides and have 70 points left over for other goodies. I'd take a pair of Riptides over a Surge, at first glance, anyhow.
« Last Edit: November 26, 2015, 07:41:11 PM by Spectral Arbor »

Offline murgel

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Re: New Wraith Knight discussion
« Reply #17 on: November 27, 2015, 12:15:57 PM »

...  How much firepower does it take to drop a Wraithknight when an army does not have Grav weapons?  From experience, I have seen it take multiple turns of an entire army shooting at the thing to kill it. ...

Well, but that exactly is the point, isn't it? Many metas are marine heavy and thus feature a multitude of grav. I have not seen a marine list for a long time without at least 3-5 unit with grav, be it gun or cannon. Those weapons are just to good, too all around powerful.
On the other hand I have also not seen many Eldar on the table since the new codex.
The WK is powerful and cheap. No argument here. Still the bash is exaggerated by much.

I have stopped using one. Simply because it dies as soon as it shows up. It takes some shots, even with grav but it has not taken more than one turn to die the last few games I used it.
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Offline Grand Master Lomandalis

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Re: New Wraith Knight discussion
« Reply #18 on: November 27, 2015, 03:01:17 PM »

...  How much firepower does it take to drop a Wraithknight when an army does not have Grav weapons?  From experience, I have seen it take multiple turns of an entire army shooting at the thing to kill it. ...

Well, but that exactly is the point, isn't it? Many metas are marine heavy and thus feature a multitude of grav. I have not seen a marine list for a long time without at least 3-5 unit with grav, be it gun or cannon. Those weapons are just to good, too all around powerful.
No, they are not "all around powerful."  They are great against high toughness / MEQ / TEQ units, they are passable against armour, and they are down right terrible against GEQ.  Take into account that the least effective method of fielding a Grav weapon is on a Tactical Marine, and it is costing 19pts for that.  A more effective way to field a Grav Gun is on a bike, which is costing 36pts; and the most effective is a Grav Centurion, which you are paying 80pts for.

On the other hand I have also not seen many Eldar on the table since the new codex.
The WK is powerful and cheap. No argument here. Still the bash is exaggerated by much.
I find this interesting: you use meta to slag on Grav Weaponry, but personal experience to comment on Eldar.  I do agree that you are seeing less Eldar.  However, I have spoken with some of the top tournament players in Canada who have shelved the Eldar because it is too easy to win with them.

Now, I am not saying that Eldar are gone entirely.  One of the largest tournaments around here, that draws over 100 people every year, is usually dominated by Eldar lists.

I have stopped using one. Simply because it dies as soon as it shows up. It takes some shots, even with grav but it has not taken more than one turn to die the last few games I used it.
And how much firepower does it soak up in that one turn before it dies?  I have yet to see a Wraithknight go down in a single turn where it hasn't taken the entire enemy force to drop it. 

The offensive output, the speed, and the survivability is what makes the Wraithknight overpowered. 
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Offline Lyonic

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Re: New Wraith Knight discussion
« Reply #19 on: November 27, 2015, 03:33:33 PM »
I really wish i knew what stats you guys were using in this fantasy codex.

Jetbikes have a large footprint and their assault move is on average 7 inches. Not alot of maps have LOS blocking terrain and even if you get some. S6 os great if you are shooting MEQ. Try shooting TEQ and tell me how it goes. The bikes themselves are MEQ and very easy to kill. As soon as they jink their shooting is gone. low leadership. They are by no means an instant win unit.


The wraithknight is so easy to kill.. All you need is: a unit of cents Ina drop pod. Maybe some skitari Ina pod. How about tau long range d weapons? Or simple volume of dice.. Its not like he is armour 13 with a 3+ invul..

My big issue is that 90% of eldar are weak fragile dudes who die very easy. You can say well, use range but we don't really have the best gunline around.. So we got the WK, the one model we have that can soak up some fire and we cant even take more than 1. Yet you can take 5 knights or spam 6 helldrakes, 3 riptides etc. Every tourney is saying 1 WK but its just hate at eldar.

 


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