Topic: GW going from metal to resin discussion thread

[tryanotherone - smurfernating]

Ok,

there have been rumours (which started about two weeks ago) that GW possibly stops using metal for some its minis. These rumours claim that GW might use resin instead.

This thread is for discussing this rumour. More information on the current state of affairs can be found here: http://www.40konline.com/index.php?topic=212813.0 (Please, don't post your opinion there.)
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Personally, I hope that rumour is a fake. Most of all because resin is harmful when working with it due to the fact that resin dust may cause cancer (when inhaled) and I just love to convert minis which I will most certainly stop doing with resin minis.

Also, I read that the basis for resin is crude oil (not sure about that, though). Since the price for crude oil is on the rise, I don't see how GW would be able to maintain a stable price for its (resin ) products.

There's more but let's get this discussion started.

[Carni-Kang]

I'm not too sure about this jump. Though for conversion work, Resin would be easier to work with, there's just something about having a metal model in your hands after dishing out 15-25 bucks for a single one.
Other than that, I can't really see any good reason for GW to kick out metal models for a dangerous and possibly more expensive substance. Would it not, in the long run, cost more to continuously produce resin models than it would to do the same for metal?

I agree with Mr. Raider above. I hope it to be fake.

[Fenris]

What exactly is resin?
Is it some form of rubber or is it the usual type of plastic that GW already uses, if it's plastic I think it's great as the models will be lighter and won't break as easy if you drop them, than metal.

[tryanotherone - smurfernating]

Resin is the material that Forgeworld uses for it miniatures.

It is very brittle and not easy to use, IMO.

You can read more about it here.

[IainC]

Resin comes from various sources depending on the type, acetone and other organic alcohols are common. It's not usually a petrochemical product.

My guess is that if this is true, that GW is trying to insulate their manufacturing costs from the fluctuations of the commodities market - tin prices change dramatically over time. According to this site it's almost doubled in price over the last year and increased five-fold since 2006.

What exactly is resin?
Is it some form of rubber or is it the usual type of plastic that GW already uses, if it's plastic I think it's great as the models will be lighter and won't break as easy if you drop them, than metal.

There are different kinds of resin and it isn't the same as the extruded polystyrene that the GW plastics are made from. The stuff that Forgeworld uses is one kind, there are other formulations with different properties though. Some are hard and brittle (but are good for sharp detail), others are softer and more bendy (but don't hold detail as well).

[tryanotherone - smurfernating]

@IanC:  I know you may still have connections to GW.

Do you know why GW hasn't made an official statement on the rumours or when they might possibly announce the change (if this turns out to be true)?

[IainC]

@IanC:  I know you may still have connections to GW.

Do you know why GW hasn't made an official statement on the rumours or when they might possibly announce the change (if this turns out to be true)?

I don't have any additional information on either question. If they are dropping heavy hints to independent stores though I expect that a full public announcement won't be far off.

[Lorizael]

I'm not a huge fan of the resin Forge World uses, but I'll take anything over metal models. As has been said as well; resin doesn't have to be dangerous and can be made of different types of mixes so can be less brittle.
If GW are doing this now then it's been on the cards for a year at least; which means resin solutions will have been found.
Generally though it means that there will be even more plastic releases. The number of plastic models has increased a lot over the past 6 months; especially with releases such as Dark Eldar. More plastic can only be a good thing.

[slinky1984]

My understanding of resin is that it's actually quite cheap to use as a base for your models and is one reason why forgeworld shows profits were as GW as a whole has dropped some based on there last financial reports. (That is if I understood 40k radio in one of there podcasts correctly)

If that is the case then I could see them deciding this would be a good route to go. Not only do they have the potential to make more money but it may mean they have the ability to do things like actually include the upgrades necessary to build an entire squad ( Tyranid warriors come to mind).  Keep in mind that I don't feel that resin would mean price increase although it's not beyond them.

It could also coincide with what I've heard about there change in target audience. My understanding is that they plan on targeting 16+, a more mature audience could handle having to deal with the dangers of resins. A disclaimer included in each box would be easy enough and it wouldn't be as if all models would be resin.

[Raktra (So long, I guess)]

I'm personally hoping for the resin rumour to be true, provided that they use the same type of resin as Privateer Press does on their plastic kits. I've not had any issues with that and the detail isn't too bad, particularly on the start box Warcasters, so here's hoping GW as the superior model company can make something good from it.

[small_furry_spider]

It could also coincide with what I've heard about there change in target audience. My understanding is that they plan on targeting 16+, a more mature audience could handle having to deal with the dangers of resins. A disclaimer included in each box would be easy enough and it wouldn't be as if all models would be resin.

I would rate this a highly unlikely. The vast majority of GW's sales comes from the 12-year old market and their parents. GW usually treats veterans quite badly, because they believe they are not worth much. Purely targeting the 16+ market would be commercial suicide.
I don't know how to reconcile young kids being your primary market and toxic resin dust. Any ideas?

[IainC]

I would rate this a highly unlikely. The vast majority of GW's sales comes from the 12-year old market and their parents^{[citation needed]}. GW usually treats veterans quite badly^{[citation needed]}, because they believe they are not worth much^{[citation needed]}. Purely targeting the 16+ market would be commercial suicide^{[citation needed]}.
I don't know how to reconcile young kids being your primary market and toxic resin dust. Any ideas?

You are wrong in all of your starting conditions and therefore also wrong in your conclusions. Try again.

[Chuckles, The Space Marine Clown]

Is he though? I can't see anything in that post that's particularly wrong. The citation needed trick is cute, but

You are wrong in all of your starting conditions^{[citation needed]} and therefore also wrong in your conclusions^{[citation needed]}. Try again.

[IainC]

Is he though? I can't see anything in that post that's particularly wrong.

Apart from misidentifying the main audience, the belief unsupported by facts that GW treats vets badly and the incorrect assertion that GW doesn't think vets are worth very much? Other than those points I'd agree he was spot on.

The people who spend the most on their hobby are young professionals spending their own money and with no families or other major financial commitments. These are committed hobbyists ('vets') with a lot of disposable income and the target audience for the support that GW extends to vets in general. Kids spending their parents' money are generally a way down the totem pole as far as value is concerned because you can't sell directly to these people, you have to sell the product twice for each sale and parents have different value thresholds than the kids do. This is true in most hobbies targeting a similar demographic.

As for 'treating vets badly' this isn't really the thread for that but this is a long and tired trope that has been thoroughly debunked many times in the past. Vets need different kinds of support to newer players. Veteran support from GW mostly comes in stuff like the collectors' ranges, Forgeworld accessories and experimental rules and the various main game expansions such as Mighty Empires, Planetstrike, Apocalypse etc which are of little use to new players, just because your local store is trying to clear the tables for newbies doesn't mean that GW as a whole has no use for older players. GW knows exactly what players who are already invested heavily in the hobby are worth which is why this kind of support continues. Anyone who believes otherwise really isn't paying attention.

[Fury]

I'm actually supportive of a move to resin from metal. I used to do a lot of historical armor models, and many of the third party figures were resin - I never had any problems with dust or sanding, you would honestly have to generate a LOT of resin dust for it to affect you negatively. As far a resin figures go, it's probably the best medium for detail, and mold lines are less of an issue than with metal. What I don't want to see is a jump to Forgeworld prices for Citadel figures, or a phase out of some existing metal character miniatures.

[Chuckles, The Space Marine Clown]

@IainC: I suppose we'll have to agree to disagree on this one. Personally I consider the things you mentioned to come under the category of "a desperate attempt to squeeze extra money out of veterans" (not that that's a bad thing you understand) rather than "support". I would classify "support" as making sure the various armies are well-balanced between each other, keeping the model ranges up to date and keeping on top of dodgy rules decisions and regularly updating errata articles and so on.

[Starstrider3]

Has anyone considered it might be plastic/resin hybrid kits? If that's the case, this could be a good move with little drawbacks. Plastic models cost less than metal models so hopefully that will keep the price down. Plastic will give durability while the resin gives detail. The models will also be considerably lighter and much, much less prone to chips.

[The_Outcast]

Resin chips about the same as the plastic models in my experience.  Resin is a terrible material. Resin Dust can cause cancer. The models are plagued with air bubbles.  So many air bubbles.

The_Outcast

[Partninja]

I hate metal models, and resin. Resin can get some very nice details yes, but I Resin still has its issues. Warping, air bubbles, mold lines. I have a bit of a bias though as I prefer the game play over the modeling/painting aspect.

[Cakes on a plane]

I don't build many metal models as it is. But i think i'd prefer to have the resin, i'm a big fan of converting things and that doesn't really go over well with metal models unless you have some amount of greenstuff skill.

Having said that, to the best of my knowledge we're not allowed to work on Resin models in my LGWS, which i could see being a bit of a chore because i personally find the social aspect of the hobby to be a big thing and would prefer not to have to work on any metal/.resin model alone.

-Cakes