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Main => General 40k => Topic started by: Greenstuff on October 15, 2006, 04:02:53 PM

Title: Nova Cannon?
Post by: Greenstuff on October 15, 2006, 04:02:53 PM
Apart from being mounted on Battleships and being horrendously powerful, does any one have any information about these things? Looks, how it works etc. Also, is it a solid shot, or laser weapon?



GS
Title: Re: Nova Cannon?
Post by: Stormtrooper of the Dominion on October 15, 2006, 04:30:50 PM
Apart from being mounted on Battleships and being horrendously powerful, does any one have any information about these things? Looks, how it works etc. Also, is it a solid shot, or laser weapon?



GS

I believe its a single shot weapon according the BFG main rulebook.  The cannon is underslung on the prow of the ship.  Take a look at the Mars Class Cruiser in the "Ships of the Imperium" download from the specialist games website.
Title: Re: Nova Cannon?
Post by: Arun on October 15, 2006, 04:43:42 PM

...and it's the standard weapon of Grots. ;D

Anyway, what are you planning with it? A VDR?
Title: Re: Nova Cannon?
Post by: The GrimSqueaker on October 15, 2006, 04:52:54 PM
The Nova Cannon is slow to reload, not single shot. The 2002 BFG Annual had a decent amount of information regarding it and alternative shell types as well I believe. Think of it as a cannon with a huge shell programmed to detonate in a certain area of space.
Title: Re: Nova Cannon?
Post by: [dixon] on October 15, 2006, 05:01:46 PM
Note that it would be horrenously impratical to do something involving a Nova Cannon in 40k Scale.

There's only one Nova Cannon that in the entire Imperium that is used in surface warfare, and it's classified as an Ordinatus by the Adeptus Mechanicus.

Or in english, ridiculously large slaughtering device.
Title: Re: Nova Cannon?
Post by: Locarno on October 15, 2006, 05:38:07 PM
BFG rulebook
Quote
A nova cannon is a huge weapon, normally mounted in the prow of a ship so that the recoil it generates can be compensated for by the vessel’s engines. It fires a projectile at incredible velocity, using graviometric impellers to accelerate it to close to light speed. The projectile implodes at a preset distance after firing, unleashing a force more potent than a dozen plasma bombs.

Adeptus Mechanicus Titan Legion List
Quote
Ordinatus Armageddon first shed blood during the massive Chaos invasion of the planet of the same name. The Khorne Banelords, Lords of Bat Battle and daemon engines were tle instrumental in the destruction of many cities, but a genius of the Adeptus Mechanicus, Geronimus Undersen, devised an Ordinatus as a defence against the marauding war engines. Undersen mounted a massive starship weapon onto a land and-based chassis, giving the Imperial forces an immense machine powerful enough to destroy even the largest and most powerful foes.
In the ensuing battle for Tartarus Hive, Armageddon destroyed no less than four Chaos Titans and two detachments of daemon engines. Without the heavy firepower of these machines, the Chaos assault broke upon the mile mile-high walls of Tartarus like a tide against the rocks.
The Nova Cannon is similar to the Plasma Annihilator of an Imperator Titan. However, rather than releasing a burst of raw plasma, the Nova Cannon can focus and control the potent energies to greater precision. This allows the crew to siphon small amounts of plasma into the discharge chamber, producing a rapid burst of fire. Alternatively, the crew can flood th the chamber with all the remaining plasma and send out an earth-shattering blast of energy.

Notice how, in Classic GW style, the two descriptions of the weapon's function don't match. The ordinatus weapon reads much more like the BFG description of a lance - the massive energy weapons that are the heavy ship-to-ship guns of Imperial battleships (bear in mind that the inquisition codex 'lance strike' is being fired from geostationary orbit, so a range of roughly 42245 kilometres, and it still delivers a S10 AP2 ordnance blast like a super-heavy tank's volcano cannon)

Here's some images - for size reference, that front tractor unit's tracks are the same size, more or less, as those on a chimera.
(It even looks like a capital ship lance turret, I think)
http://www.netepic.org/GALLERY/view_album.php?set_albumName=album17 (http://www.netepic.org/GALLERY/view_album.php?set_albumName=album17)
Title: Re: Nova Cannon?
Post by: myles on October 15, 2006, 07:56:43 PM
Bah. I never did like having lance strikes in 40k. A lance battery can snap a mile-long escort ship in two with one shot, I think even from geostationary orbit it would be far more powerful than a simple pie plate. Maybe if they gave the witch/daemon hunters some models they could have a real HS choice.  ::)
Title: Re: Nova Cannon?
Post by: Greenstuff on October 15, 2006, 08:00:38 PM
Right, scratch that idea for now then :P Time to find a less insane cannon!



GS
Title: Re: Nova Cannon?
Post by: chaos0xomega on October 16, 2006, 03:02:07 PM
Yeah, A lance strike should read more like S10 AP1 Titan killer Mega Massive Blast Heavy6(to represent the fact that one massive pieplate still aint enough).
Title: Re: Nova Cannon?
Post by: myles on October 16, 2006, 04:24:12 PM
Well, I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not  :D but yeah, something like that.
Title: Re: Nova Cannon?
Post by: -The Reaper- on October 16, 2006, 04:27:03 PM
I'd probably add 'melta' and 'instant death' to the lance aswell.
Title: Re: Nova Cannon?
Post by: thehod on October 16, 2006, 06:32:19 PM
i agree with DB_Reaper

Good for you! But dont spam
Title: Re: Nova Cannon?
Post by: EightyEight on October 17, 2006, 03:22:31 PM
Bah. I never did like having lance strikes in 40k. A lance battery can snap a mile-long escort ship in two with one shot, I think even from geostationary orbit it would be far more powerful than a simple pie plate. Maybe if they gave the witch/daemon hunters some models they could have a real HS choice.  ::)
And if we're talking about BFG Nova Cannon... well, a template in BFG is almost the size of a planet... ;)
Title: Re: Nova Cannon?
Post by: chaos0xomega on October 17, 2006, 03:31:04 PM
Not really bakerman. Planets/objects are in a different scale from the ships themselves and their weapons(a planet is true scale, while the ship is the stem of the flying base), but the template is easily the size of a small moon(like phobos). Or you were being sarcastic...
Title: Re: Nova Cannon?
Post by: Erenthal on October 17, 2006, 04:06:24 PM
Not really bakerman. Planets/objects are in a different scale from the ships themselves and their weapons(a planet is true scale, while the ship is the stem of the flying base), but the template is easily the size of a small moon(like phobos). Or you were being sarcastic...

It's a big gun, no doubt. A direct hit from space to the surface of a planet would be in the magnitude of the "Dinosaur-killing-meteor" that struck us 65 million years ago.

Well, perhaps not that powerful, but certainly enough punch to turn our largest city and surrounding suburbs into a smoky crater.
Title: Re: Nova Cannon?
Post by: chaos0xomega on October 17, 2006, 06:48:56 PM
So basically turn New York city and everything within 300 miles of it into a huge atlantic-seawater filled ditch?
Title: Re: Nova Cannon?
Post by: Irandrura on October 17, 2006, 07:21:08 PM
Some calculations from Spacebattles, which does this kind of thing -
1 (http://forums.spacebattles.com/archive/index.php/t-63962.html)
2 (http://forums.spacebattles.com/showthread.php?t=66919)
3 (http://forums.spacebattles.com/archive/index.php/t-71407.html)
4 (http://forums.spacebattles.com/archive/index.php/t-90158.html)

8640 GT for a lower limit. Otherwise, a nova cannon round is something like 50 metres across and travels at near-lightspeed, so its kinetic impact alone is ridiculous, higher estimates in multiple petatons.

Heck, destroying NYC and everything in a 300 km radius is probably too conservative an estimate...

To compare, the most powerful nuclear weapon ever created, Tsar Bomba, had a yield of around 50 MT.

That's right, the very lowest estimate for a nova cannon's yield is 172,800 times more powerful than the most powerful nuclear bomb in existence.

Being hit by a nova cannon blast would be a bad thing.
Title: Re: Nova Cannon?
Post by: Deloth Vyrr on October 17, 2006, 08:30:10 PM
Some calculations from Spacebattles, which does this kind of thing -
1 (http://forums.spacebattles.com/archive/index.php/t-63962.html)
2 (http://forums.spacebattles.com/showthread.php?t=66919)
3 (http://forums.spacebattles.com/archive/index.php/t-71407.html)
4 (http://forums.spacebattles.com/archive/index.php/t-90158.html)

8640 GT for a lower limit. Otherwise, a nova cannon round is something like 50 metres across and travels at near-lightspeed, so its kinetic impact alone is ridiculous, higher estimates in multiple petatons.

Heck, destroying NYC and everything in a 300 km radius is probably too conservative an estimate...

To compare, the most powerful nuclear weapon ever created, Tsar Bomba, had a yield of around 50 MT.

That's right, the very lowest estimate for a nova cannon's yield is 172,800 times more powerful than the most powerful nuclear bomb in existence.

Being hit by a nova cannon blast would be a bad thing.

LMAO, that last line just cracked me up

The thing with the Nova Cannon is, as far as pure physical destruction goes, it would probably knock out a good chunk of the united states, but that would be the least of your worries...

An impact and explosion of THAT scale would cause irreparable damage to the planet. Nuclear bombs themselves cause massive ammounts of damage to the planets atmosphere themselves due to the mushroom cloud that is projected right into the atmosphere. Imagine what kinda of cloud would be created from a Nova Cannon...
Title: Re: Nova Cannon?
Post by: Irandrura on October 17, 2006, 09:02:32 PM
Indeed. When you're hit by a nova cannon, you don't count the buildings that have been destroyed, you count the cities that have been destroyed.

The lance strike in the game I assume is a scaled down, pinpoint shot. It's not a real barrage, but a scaled down laser shot, a scalpel if you will, compared to a real lance strike.

For the record, I'm thinking Ordinatus Armageddon mounts a ship-grade lance, not a nova cannon. Just think of the recoil a real nova cannon would have...
Title: Re: Nova Cannon?
Post by: chaos0xomega on October 17, 2006, 09:11:32 PM
Some calculations from Spacebattles, which does this kind of thing -
1 (http://forums.spacebattles.com/archive/index.php/t-63962.html)
2 (http://forums.spacebattles.com/showthread.php?t=66919)
3 (http://forums.spacebattles.com/archive/index.php/t-71407.html)
4 (http://forums.spacebattles.com/archive/index.php/t-90158.html)

8640 GT for a lower limit. Otherwise, a nova cannon round is something like 50 metres across and travels at near-lightspeed, so its kinetic impact alone is ridiculous, higher estimates in multiple petatons.

Heck, destroying NYC and everything in a 300 km radius is probably too conservative an estimate...

To compare, the most powerful nuclear weapon ever created, Tsar Bomba, had a yield of around 50 MT.

That's right, the very lowest estimate for a nova cannon's yield is 172,800 times more powerful than the most powerful nuclear bomb in existence.

Being hit by a nova cannon blast would be a bad thing.

Correct me if I am wrong, but I thought Tsar Bomba was the largest nuke ever tested, not the largest nuke to exist(raher, existed, tehre was only one, shame that they never built the original 100 mt one...)

And NYC+300m is definitely too conservative.

Quote
An impact and explosion of THAT scale would cause irreparable damage to the planet. Nuclear bombs themselves cause massive ammounts of damage to the planets atmosphere themselves due to the mushroom cloud that is projected right into the atmosphere. Imagine what kinda of cloud would be created from a Nova Cannon...

But that's a lot harder to imagine. Gather a group of people together. First tell them that there is a bomb that could do so much damage that no organism on the planet could survive it's aftermath. They say pretty big, eh? Then tell them that the bomb would create a crater large enough to remove the entirety of the United States, a good deal of Canada, and parts of Mexico right off of the map. Then you'll get some ooohs and ahhhs and some HOLY amphetamine parrotS!!!@$!

Quote
For the record, I'm thinking Ordinatus Armageddon mounts a ship-grade lance, not a nova cannon. Just think of the recoil a real nova cannon would have...

Stop the planets rotation?
Title: Re: Nova Cannon?
Post by: Irandrura on October 17, 2006, 09:34:55 PM
Correct me if I am wrong, but I thought Tsar Bomba was the largest nuke ever tested, not the largest nuke to exist(raher, existed, tehre was only one, shame that they never built the original 100 mt one...)

You might be right, as I'm no expert in the field. I wiki-ed nuclear weapons yields to find a figure. In general nuclear bombs only get into the double digit MTs, don't they?

It doesn't really that much. Whether it's Little Boy, Tsar Bomba, or a nova cannon blast, you still don't want to be at ground zero.

Quote
Stop the planets rotation?

You'd have to attach the nova cannon to the planet at a 90 degree angle for that, and the force isn't enough anyway. Since Ordinatus Armageddon clearly isn't attached to a planet, as it in fact has tracks, firing a nova cannon would rather send it hurtling through the air like a toy car in a cyclone.

I was thinking of the recoil compensators you'd need to build into the Ordinatus. The nova cannon fires an actual shell - unlike laser weapons, there is a kinetic impact. Apparently it can be fired on a several mile long spaceship without sending the ship flying backwards, but those ships are very large and have considerable forward thrust to counterbalance. (One of those links mentioned attack speed for a Chaos cruiser being around 75% of lightspeed, I think.)

In an Ordinatus, I don't think you could fire a nova cannon without sending the structure flying. A lance, sure, since it's a recoilless laser, but not a nova cannon. Too big.

Perhaps the weapon in the Ordinatus is a smaller version? There are mentions of mass drivers and the like being mounted in ordinary weapons batteries, which would be an appropriate place for a sort of scaled down nova cannon. That way it could still be a starship-grade, nova cannon-esque weapon but a little more sane in scope.
Title: Re: Nova Cannon?
Post by: Locarno on October 18, 2006, 04:44:25 AM
The ordinatus cannon is specifically described as an energy weapon, so I think you're right - it's a lance.

As noted above, a "lance strike" is a single, low end power shot at over 6000 km range, and through the entire planetare atmosphere. By comparison, the ordinatus is firing at point blank range. It's going to scythe straight through a titan Babylon 5 slicer-beam style without notably slowing down for the shields or amour........
Title: Re: Nova Cannon?
Post by: EightyEight on October 18, 2006, 02:13:01 PM
Quote
the template is easily the size of a small moon(like phobos).
Well, I guess it depends what scale you're using. On a basketball-sized planet, a small template has to be almost the size of the US or Australia.
Title: Re: Nova Cannon?
Post by: chaos0xomega on October 18, 2006, 04:15:24 PM
Correct me if I am wrong, but I thought Tsar Bomba was the largest nuke ever tested, not the largest nuke to exist(raher, existed, tehre was only one, shame that they never built the original 100 mt one...)

You might be right, as I'm no expert in the field. I wiki-ed nuclear weapons yields to find a figure. In general nuclear bombs only get into the double digit MTs, don't they?

It doesn't really that much. Whether it's Little Boy, Tsar Bomba, or a nova cannon blast, you still don't want to be at ground zero.

Quote
Stop the planets rotation?

You'd have to attach the nova cannon to the planet at a 90 degree angle for that, and the force isn't enough anyway. Since Ordinatus Armageddon clearly isn't attached to a planet, as it in fact has tracks, firing a nova cannon would rather send it hurtling through the air like a toy car in a cyclone.

I was thinking of the recoil compensators you'd need to build into the Ordinatus. The nova cannon fires an actual shell - unlike laser weapons, there is a kinetic impact. Apparently it can be fired on a several mile long spaceship without sending the ship flying backwards, but those ships are very large and have considerable forward thrust to counterbalance. (One of those links mentioned attack speed for a Chaos cruiser being around 75% of lightspeed, I think.)

In an Ordinatus, I don't think you could fire a nova cannon without sending the structure flying. A lance, sure, since it's a recoilless laser, but not a nova cannon. Too big.

Perhaps the weapon in the Ordinatus is a smaller version? There are mentions of mass drivers and the like being mounted in ordinary weapons batteries, which would be an appropriate place for a sort of scaled down nova cannon. That way it could still be a starship-grade, nova cannon-esque weapon but a little more sane in scope.

It could be a recoiless weapon. The only way that would work is if the back was open, so when the thing is fired, there isn't any kick ala open-backed rpg.
Title: Re: Nova Cannon?
Post by: myles on October 18, 2006, 04:22:37 PM
It could be a recoiless weapon. The only way that would work is if the back was open, so when the thing is fired, there isn't any kick ala open-backed rpg.

But the nova cannon doesn't use any sort of explosion to propel its projectile, so I don't think that would work/apply.

Would a nova cannon generate recoil though? It use 'gravimetric impellers' right? I'm not sure exactly what that's supposed to be, but I would assume that it involves using artificially generated gravity to accelerate the projectile, which seems like it might not create any recoil...

Although come to think of it the rules do pretty explicity state that there's a lot of recoil don't they?  :P

Well in that case, maybe while there's a lot of recoil, there isn't nearly as much as one would expect...?
Title: Re: Nova Cannon?
Post by: Locarno on October 18, 2006, 04:36:51 PM
Quote
But the nova cannon doesn't use any sort of explosion to propel its projectile, so I don't think that would work/apply.

Would a nova cannon generate recoil though? It use 'gravimetric impellers' right? I'm not sure exactly what that's supposed to be, but I would assume that it involves using artificially generated gravity to accelerate the projectile, which seems like it might not create any recoil...

Although come to think of it the rules do pretty explicity state that there's a lot of recoil don't they? 

Well in that case, maybe while there's a lot of recoil, there isn't nearly as much as one would expect...?

There's a humungous amount of recoil - hence its mounted along the drive axis.....
No matter how you accelerate a projectile, you'll aways get recoil the other way.
Fortunate that the Ordinatus 'nova cannon' and the fleet 'nova cannon' aren't the same thing......