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The Armies of 40k => Tyranids => Topic started by: Hive Fleet Bahamut on May 3, 2013, 12:24:12 PM
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I would be ignorant to say that Tyranids are faring well. I have not only seen a decline in topics, but I am also now the last Nid player in our group. After the seemingly beneficial boosts we got in sixth... Random biomancy basically our saving grace.. It is clear we need an update.
I continue to play against armies of Knights, Daemon and other squishy space food simply because I know the Tyranids will devour all. I just don't expect to win all that often. I hope others haven't lost faith in our Queen.
Also curious. Has anyone else come to dislike that our psychic abilities are now our crutch? To add to the already cookie cutter style FOC..
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I agree that some of our units are outdated/overpriced, but I still think there are several viable builds for Tyranids in 6th. I wouldn't think about psychic powers as being a "crutch", but as a strength of the Tyranids. I used to run triple power tervigons, but lately I have just been giving them catalyst because the FNP is so useful, and it frees up points elsewhere.
Here's a list I used at the LGS 1500 pt tourney this past weekend.:
Flyrant with 2 pairs of devourers, warlord
Flyrant with 2 pairs of devourers, hive commander
Tervigon, cluster spines, catalyst, toxin sacs, crushing claws
Tervigon, cluster spines, catalyst, toxin sacs
10 termagants
10 termagants
Carnifex with 2 pairs of devourers in mycetic spore
Carnifex with 2 pairs of devourers in mycetic spore
I expected the list to be fairly competitive, but it ended up being flat out nasty. I would fly my tyrants up a flank and drop my carnifexes near...everything in the area just died. I ended up tabling 2 of my opponents (DA, DE), and handily beating the third (Necron/Tau). Yes, there is some cookie-cutterness (is that a word) as far as troop choices go (usually 500 pts worth of termies/tervies), but you still have a lot of variability with the remainder of your points, even at 1500.
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Well, I've been having a ton of fun playing with my CSM and my new Demons army, but I'm going to break out the bugs tomorrow for Minnesota's brand new GW store, which is hosting a Tau battle day.
The reason I stopped playing my Nids was that I still do extremely well with them, despite the changes. My 1850 lists both seem to work well. Double Tervies, triple Trygons, 6 Hive Guard/2 Zoies, OA foot Tryant works like a charm.
The death of the forum is primarily due to the fact that Nids are an old codex now and there isn't really anything new to discuss.
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I think the issue is Tyranids don't scale that well anywhere under 1500 points (even more like 1750). This is coming from a Guard perspective (who scale well at most points levels) but I oft play Tyranids and they seem to lose their steam pretty quickly if you can knock out one or two big units in the 1000-1500 point range.
On the topic of psychic powers I want to bring up the Broodlord. A pretty agressive psyker, who is 60 pts base, can pick 2 powers and is troops. However, if you happen to manifest witchfire or focused witchfire you just lose the ability as they have a BS of zero (see Tyranid FAQ). If he gets Iron Arm just run, but if he messes up his table rolls he could have nothing. I faced 2 Broodlords yesterday that rolled Endurance+Puppet Master/Endurance+Life Leach, so they both only had Endurance. They both had their skulls taken by my Dread. The only thing more I could have asked for was that it was Enfeeble instead of Endurance that they both rolled and then I'd be rolling 4+ deny the witches (Lvl 2 Librarian). Broodlords can be agressive if your power rolls go well, otherwise he's a big target.
Biggest disadvantage of Tyranids: No Invulnerable Saves
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they have a BS of zero
I still can't figure out why this is. There are other CC only units (Hormagaunts, Tyrant Guard) that have a ballistic skill so why not stealers. At least the Broodlord should I think.
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I still can't figure out why this is. There are other CC only units (Hormagaunts, Tyrant Guard) that have a ballistic skill so why not stealers. At least the Broodlord should I think.
I agree to an extent, but how OP would a broodlord be then? I'm of the opinion that they're already over powered as it is but counter to that, the Tyranids are getting the rough end of the pineapple in 6th so I'll give it to them where they can get it.
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Broodlords are hardly OP...you have to take at least 4 'stealers with him, and as you have mentioned, his psychic powers can be completely useless if you switch out for biomancy. 4+ sv with no invulnerable will only get you so far. Not a bad unit, but hardly broken.
Again, I just don't understand negative sentiment about Tyranids in 6th. I can't see anything, outside of not being able to ally or assault from outflank that made Tyranids worse off than in 5th. We gained many boons in 6th: biomancy powers, FMCs, hull points, no faerless wounds, better FNP (for nids, at least), monstrous creature rules, etc. The only real tyranid units that got worse in 6th are genestealers and the tfex with rupture cannon. Though the tfex is way overcosted however you slice it, a major victim of just being part of an older codex.
I blew DE and DA off the table in my last tourney, and beat up a combined Necron/tau force in kill points. This was at 1500 pts, where some people tend to think nids don't scale well (which I also dispute). Nids may have a bit of an outdated codex with some useless models, but they are far from unplayable.
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Broodlords are hardly OP...you have to take at least 4 'stealers with him, and as you have mentioned, his psychic powers can be completely useless if you switch out for biomancy. 4+ sv with no invulnerable will only get you so far. Not a bad unit, but hardly broken.
I never said they were broken but I understand your sentiment, they do have their drawbacks. The fact is that the lack of invulnerable save can be overcome by applying different tactic to the situation. For example, a venomthrope gives errthang in 6" a cover save. As well, a certain "Endurance" Psychic power grants FNP which is a damn slight handy in any situation though one won't always have access to such a power. And you also can spread yourself across disciplines to try to limit the exposure to witchfire, potentially increasing your psychic potential.
I was trying to get at the fact that you can get a mid-high strength, mid-high toughness, 4 attack, 3 wound, psyker that can capture objectives for 60 points (plus the 56 for the other 4 stealers as you mention, but it's not like they won't pull their own weight). That's not OP? ???
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In my experience this unit just gets shot to pieces early because genestealers scare many people, and they also have to take overwatch to the face now in 6th. Additionally, genestealers cannot assault from outflank anymore. Either you go the cheap route with broodlord/stealers and go with a min-sized squad for 130ish, but the stealers just tend to be ablative wounds for getting the broodlord into combat. Go with a full brood of 20, and some are certain to make it to combat, but you're still paying space marine points for a unit with a 5+ save. The fact that broodlords are scoring is nice, but irrelevant if you ask me. Rarely will a broodlord be alive at the end of the game for objective holding.
Now if you want to talk about OP, we can go on about the tervigon ;) big tough mama does more for the tyranid army than almost any other unit in the game for their own army: spawn units, buff them, cast FNP, smash tanks, pie plate infantry...and count as scoring to top it all off! And one of the major bargains in the tyranid codex! I really do t understand how they came up with some of the unit costs in our book...