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Author Topic: !DOES ANYONE KNOW HOW TO BEAT A IPM GUARD BASILISK!?  (Read 3079 times)

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Offline Silent_runner

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Re:!DOES ANYONE KNOW HOW TO BEAT A IPM GUARD BASILISK!?
« Reply #20 on: October 16, 2002, 09:56:31 AM »
Then they shoot the basilisks that are in range of the wraithcannons and in the assault phase charge a heavy weapons squad


Just realised about this (sorry) the new rules about shooting and assault - you can only assault the unit that you shot at (apparently). I assume this would hold true for the Basilisk as well. Mind you, if the Wraithguard are fortuned, and if the Waveserpent had twin Brightlances on it - you could.... Charge for the side armour and disgorge the wraithguard, then fire the Brightlances at the side armour of the Basilisk, 4+ to hit with re-roll gives a 3 in 4 chance to hit with a 5 in 6 chance of affecting it - 2 in 3 chance of penetration (fnar fnar, yuk yuk) - a 62.5% chance of both hitting and rolling on one of the vehicle damage tables and 50% chance of both hitting and rolling on the penetration table. Then, assuming that you've at least stopped it shooting, the Wraithguard can open up on the troops and charge in (to prevent them getting shot during the opponent's go).

The problem with the above is that wraithcannon only have a range on 12" which (assuming that the opposition has "5 lines of 20 guardsmen" - as, apparently, Maureth has his units organised) will make things a little hot for the wraithguard! That was the reason that I was suggesting the Shining Spears - they can "snipe" from just inside 36" (also - with a 2+ to hit, they have a 5 in 6 chance, better than the waveserpent's twinned bright lances - this works out as just under 69.5% chance of both hitting and rolling on a damage table and just over 55.5% chance of both hitting and rolling on the penetration table) and, once they've managed to knock out the Basilisk(s), the IG guardsmen will be protecting one or more smoking craters(s!) 36" away from doing any harm. Assuming that the sides are about 2000 points, you will have managed to knock out almost half the points in his army (the basilisks have gone, or can't shoot any more, and the guards protecting them are out of the main area - just keep an eye on any lascannons/Missile Launchers that they've got!).

This should allow the rest of the Eldar army to attack the remaining IG forces at a 2 to 1 point advantage.

Have I missed anything on this? Ideas for tightening up the plan would be good - 'cos it could be adapted for units other than Basilisks!

Of course this all goes to pot if what happened to me the other night happens to you - two Shining Spear "tank buster" units - first two turns - I roll a 1 for each of them. turn three, one of the Exarchs is blown away and then the other one shoots - another 1! The chances are slim of this sort of thing happening (1 in 65 - or 0.013% - 1 in 7776!) but the best laid plans can be scuppered by outrageous dice rolls (your's or your opponents). My normal opponent makes his 5+ invulnerable save 9 out of 10 times and has his deep strikers go "double one" about one in three times - go figure!!
« Last Edit: October 17, 2002, 06:39:52 AM by Silent_runner »
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Offline pulven

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Re:!DOES ANYONE KNOW HOW TO BEAT A IPM GUARD BASILISK!?
« Reply #21 on: October 17, 2002, 06:47:51 AM »
Or maybe a Fireprism or two, ctm that 60" str 9 / 2 could work wonders...
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Offline Silent_runner

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Re:!DOES ANYONE KNOW HOW TO BEAT A IPM GUARD BASILISK!?
« Reply #22 on: October 17, 2002, 07:13:31 AM »
True, but you'd have to make sure that the Farseer did his stuff on it otherwise you'd only have a 50:50 chance of hitting. (I REALLY get fed up with that BS of 3!).

Again - that's why I keep using the Shining Spears - with a BS of 5 they only need a 2+ to hit.

It's strange really - Shining Spears are advertised as close combat types, which they are patently crap at (except possibly on the turn that they initially assault) - so everybody says how useless they are. But for whizzing round the battlefield knocking out hardpoints from a distance they're great - but nobody seems to use them for that. My normal opponent - an SM power player - reckons that the two things that worry him - my Wraithlords and my Shining Spears, the former because only his termies can cope with them in close combat (and even then they tend to get a mauling) and the latter because, by turn two, his Crusader, Dreadnaught and Whirlwind are usually unable to move/have no weapons left/are large smoking hulks!
« Last Edit: October 18, 2002, 07:29:12 AM by Silent_runner »
"Powergamers of the world unite, you have nothing to lose....." end of quote - that's it - you just have nothing to lose - so go out and win everything just to tee off all the "Yoghurt Weavers".

Offline Rasmus

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Re:!DOES ANYONE KNOW HOW TO BEAT A IPM GUARD BASILISK!?
« Reply #23 on: October 17, 2002, 07:34:35 AM »
After consulting the old battles I have played and finding that I have been in the very situation you describe I will tell you how I did it the last time.

Warp Spiders - 5 of them, jumping down the field, wreaking havoc whereever they go. With a lot of other dangerous things around the enemy does not use his awesome firepower on them, and they manage to get behind the basilisk.
The first volley of fire stuns the crew, making it impossible for it to move away, turn to face with front armor, or fire.
The next volley of fire, now at rapid fire, burns the tank to a crisp after immobilising it and destroying all its weapons.

That's how I did it. It is not a cover-for-all-tactic, but it worked that day.

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Offline SledgeHammer

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Re:!DOES ANYONE KNOW HOW TO BEAT A IPM GUARD BASILISK!?
« Reply #24 on: October 17, 2002, 07:39:39 AM »
Get  35" near it, and it can't shoot u.
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Offline Silent_runner

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Re:!DOES ANYONE KNOW HOW TO BEAT A IPM GUARD BASILISK!?
« Reply #25 on: October 17, 2002, 09:21:45 AM »
Get  35" near it, and it can't shoot u.

Um, sorry - yes it can - in fact it's more accurate! Within 36" it can't use indirect fire (Guess then scatter) within 36" it can only use direct fire - this is the reason that I advocate the Shining Spears/Falcon move/shoot/move tactic, so that you're in cover when it's his turn to shoot.
« Last Edit: October 17, 2002, 09:22:51 AM by Silent_runner »
"Powergamers of the world unite, you have nothing to lose....." end of quote - that's it - you just have nothing to lose - so go out and win everything just to tee off all the "Yoghurt Weavers".

Offline Val'Jean

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Re:!DOES ANYONE KNOW HOW TO BEAT A IPM GUARD BASILISK!?
« Reply #26 on: October 17, 2002, 11:31:51 AM »
(hence my edit anakha)
but enough of that old argument - seeing as both warp spiders and fire prisms have come up as tactics on this post - can someone give me a run down on their effectiveness and tactics (i know their stats and rules) because they're the only things I don't have in my army at the moment so I don't have much experience of them.

My normal anti-tank squads are actually wraithguard, as Culeagh said, they have are tough and have wraithcannon-of-doom. (tm)
If the serpent gets destroyed before they are near the tanks they end up as a waste of point but that's life ...
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Offline Rasmus

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Re:!DOES ANYONE KNOW HOW TO BEAT A IPM GUARD BASILISK!?
« Reply #27 on: October 17, 2002, 11:47:05 AM »
As for the Fireprism there is an entire thread about it
http://www.eldaronline.com/community/index.php?board=3;action=display;threadid=18695 here.

As for the Spiders. Well, they are expensive(money and points) have crappy range and fight well in hth. On the other hand the Spiders can Deepstrike (one of two units in the entire Host, the other being the Hawks of course) and move really fast (12" + 2D6" if you want to) at the risk of dsappearing in the warp... They also have 3+ save, and the exarch can actually be tooled up to do some serious damage. Much like the Shining Spears they are a matter of how you put them to use. They can bait and avoid even large swarms of nids for a few turns, even though the chances of them taking anything like that out is slim indeed. However, isolate something and gun for it, 5 spiders with exarch in tow, and you can scare people in panicing and redirecting fire to the resilient spiders as your guardians move down the opposite flank.
They can stand prolonged fights in cc, at least as long as there are no powerweapons involved (tied up twice the number of Harlequins for three turns... Then they won!)
So, now you have a clue, at least. Try them out, use proxies or something, and see which fits you the best.

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Offline Val'Jean

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Re:!DOES ANYONE KNOW HOW TO BEAT A IPM GUARD BASILISK!?
« Reply #28 on: October 17, 2002, 12:04:14 PM »
Thanks, the spiders sound interesting to use even if they get munched!

Once my production is finished I'll be able to get another job so I can buy some.

I'll have a look on e-bay or somewhere to see if there are any I can get hold of cheaply
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Offline Djinn_

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Re:!DOES ANYONE KNOW HOW TO BEAT A IPM GUARD BASILISK!?
« Reply #29 on: October 17, 2002, 02:06:36 PM »
you're welcome to buy my spiders, or trade for them or something, they're well painted, but I used them and hated them.

AS for the basilisk, my friend fields a 1500 point army with 3 leamon Russ and a basilisk, we play on a 6 by 6 tabletop and my army is not designed for speed. (lords, gaurd, scorpians, avatar, fire prism, wave serpent full of fire dragons, and a farseer). My only chance to devestate his tanks is to get the wave serpent in close, probability is if it unloads it can take out 2-3 tanks when positioned right (the one time this worked there was way to much cover and I got to shoot at this 10 armor backside with the linked star cannon, 1 with guns, and ones with meltabombs) is there and eldar way to beat that many tanks with out relaying on cover (which sucks due to indirect fire).
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Offline Silent_runner

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Re:!DOES ANYONE KNOW HOW TO BEAT A IPM GUARD BASILISK!?
« Reply #30 on: October 18, 2002, 04:02:53 AM »
Nope!

We can use basic logic here:-

Either you will take the hits or avoid them.

To you choose to take the hits, and still want to be alive, you have to be tough - the Eldar aren't - leave this tactic to Marines.

To avoid the hits means being somewhere that he can't hit you or he can't reach. For direct fire you can use cover, but hiding doesn't work for the indirect fire.

You can't get outside his range (the table's not big enough).

So we are left with the only choices open to us - for indirect fire you have to get within minimum range which turns it into direct fire - and (at the distance you're at) you now have to keep your head down.

At the start of this post I said "Nope!" in answer to Djinn's question "is there and eldar way to beat that many tanks with out relaying on cover (which sucks due to indirect fire)" I now retract this!

Yes there is an Eldar way - speed. Using cover doesn't "suck because of the indirect fire" - it gives you a cover save. So use the terain to protect yourself and close him down quickly.

Look at it this way - you use a 6' square table. If he puts his Basilisks just in from the edge he will be about 6" in. If you deploy 12" in then the gap between you is 54". Your first move would close this distance down to 36". With Falcons, Prisms and Waveserpents (even without Star Engines) this would be down to 30". So, if he goes first, you have to survive 1 barrage before you're inside his range. If you go first, then you don't have to put up with any of it.

The problem is that the Eldar are not meant to march (I have found this out be painful trial and error), so now I have Waveserpents, a Falcon, a Fire Prism as well as Shining Spears. It's not just speed of approach either, with the Shining Spear's ability to move 6" during the assault and Crystal Targeting Matrix for the other vehicles, you can shoot and hide every time.

I agree about the Warp Spiders - I can't get them to work either.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2002, 07:17:59 AM by Silent_runner »
"Powergamers of the world unite, you have nothing to lose....." end of quote - that's it - you just have nothing to lose - so go out and win everything just to tee off all the "Yoghurt Weavers".

Offline SledgeHammer

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Re:!DOES ANYONE KNOW HOW TO BEAT A IPM GUARD BASILISK!?
« Reply #31 on: October 18, 2002, 06:58:59 AM »
The only thing u have to do is to get  about 35" near it. Then it can't shoot u.

One thing i love is to deepstrike with immortals, and on my first turn, blow it up.
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Offline Val'Jean

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Re:!DOES ANYONE KNOW HOW TO BEAT A IPM GUARD BASILISK!?
« Reply #32 on: October 18, 2002, 11:20:07 AM »
Where do you live and how much would you want for them Djinn?
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Offline lastat

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Re:!DOES ANYONE KNOW HOW TO BEAT A IPM GUARD BASILISK!?
« Reply #33 on: October 19, 2002, 11:37:44 AM »
In my neck of the woods imp guard armies are numerous, and being a dark eldar player
this pure enjoyment. every ipm guard I have faced has at least two BASILISK. what I
have done is give them something to shoot at like a talos or a ravager or both which is
determined to rip it apart at least let them think that is your game plan. they will be so
caught up with destroying the talos or what have you it would give me time to deep strike
my Scourges 10 strong armed with splinter rifles and four splinter cannon ( that is 16 shots
at strength 4 your bound to roll a couple of 6’s) either behind or to either side of the
basilisk. destroy it and be able to get away before any retribution being able to move 12”. ;D

Offline Culeagh

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Re:!DOES ANYONE KNOW HOW TO BEAT A IPM GUARD BASILISK!?
« Reply #34 on: October 21, 2002, 02:17:26 PM »
Here's a fun one.

Get a farseer with eldritch storm to hit the target tank. It spins around in a random direction and you might get the rear armor with your whole armies shooting. Major drawback is the short range and high cost of eldritch storm.

Even if you don't kill it, it has to move in it's turn to put it's heavy front armor in the right direction and then it can't shoot ordnance. (Basilisks don't have 360 degree fire arcs.)

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