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Author Topic: Iyanden and support weapons - anyone use them?  (Read 1540 times)

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Offline bebe

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Iyanden and support weapons - anyone use them?
« on: June 1, 2009, 09:13:50 AM »
Is anyone using Supoprt Weapons in Iyanden list? Are they truly forgotten in 5ed and replaced by Warwalkers and Writhlords and Fire Prisms? I think they still have a place in Iyanden lists.

Over the past months I have been testing Support Weapon batteries in Iyanden lists, off and on. Playing Iyanden presents certain list limitations that need addressing. If we wish to remain fairly true yto the fluff we have some difficult choices to make at the 1500 point level and below.

1) Iyanden lists are very good at taking down Meq forces. The Wraithcannon can hurt teminators, tanks, and Meq armour. They do lack cc punch however.

2) Your Wraithguard troop selection will eat up a lot of points. If you decide to add a small elite squad as well, you find yourself short on scoring troops so holding objectives becomes a paramount issue.

I looked at the support weapons on paper and was not overly impressed. I did not want Warwalkers or Falcons in my list but Wraithlords certyainly seemed a choice option for the heavy slot. I never used more thyen two though so I aleays have room for a battery of cannons. The question was whether they would fill any niche in a Iyanden list. We must first examine basic Iyanden tactics to determine this.

Iyanden almost always fields a Wraithwall. This typically consists of a Wraithguard troop choice, a Wraithlord and a Farseer. This wall really forms a mobile castle moving into position to hold an objective and get into range to fire their weapons. This leaves them open to counter assault. The other troop choice will; typically try and hold and objective away from the wall. These may be Pathfinders, Dire Avengers, Guardians or even small jetbike squads.

So I have used my support weapon batteries in two ways to Support my forces. They are called support weapons for a reason. Understand that these barrage weapons do not require LoS and pin. This means they can be hidden and protected while dishing out damage. It is aso understood that they are artillery, so they cannot run but moving them into position and giving up a round of shooting is quite acceptable.

So their limitations are their mobility, range (D-Cannons) need to take a least two in a battery to be consistent and the chance of scatter onto your own  troops. Carefukl tactics can mitigate these limitations. They are also frail and easy targets for deep strikers and outflankers. Again, careful deployment helps and if they go after your cannons they are not going after mporee dangerous threats. I found my cannons were ignored until too late in many games.

D-Cannons -

These have provided an area denial ring of death around an objective. They can nbe devastating against high armour. Once you place them in position your opponent will be at a psychological disadvantage and a physical disadvantage. They are more then capable of dishing out damage and are fairy consistent. I find they do what I want around 40% of the time (a good result) so with two cannons I'm doing damage.

Here is a link to a previous article with the statistics
http://forums.tauonline.org/index.php?topic=84035.0

The article also discusses there uses against tanks, etc., but here we are focusing on their primary purpose in an Iyanden list.

Their second use is to follow your Wraithwall. Even though they perform a similar function in terms of target selection their range is 12" greater then your Wraithwall. This means that their targets want to get at them and it will often draw your opponent closer to the wall. If you have dedicated cc unit by your Wraithwall this tactic effectively increases the range ogf your guns.

Shadow Weavers and V-Cannons

I'm not going to discuss these weapon's AT potential as that is not what we use them for in an Iyanden list. In an Iyanden list they serve one purpose. We need to whittle down swarms before they hit the Wraithwall. By following the Wraithwall and setting up we can pin and rerduce the impact of running opponents trying to get into cc with our wall. Using them in conjunction with a nice counter charging squad can really add an extra element to your lists that alleviate our lack of cc prowess. I found that often by the time a squad or two hit my Wraithwall they were reduced enough in number for my lone cc counter charging squad and my Wraithguard to handle quickly without damage.

I will just add that I used a farseer with guide every time I fielded my support weapons. This greatly increased their effectiveness. In terms of consistency D-Cannons won out. For the price, Shadow Weavers were a bit of a bargain. However, the V-Cannons were quite effective in games against Orks, Nids and IG.   
« Last Edit: June 2, 2009, 08:44:23 AM by bebe »
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Offline Starrakatt

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Re: Iyanden and support weapons - anyone use them?
« Reply #1 on: June 2, 2009, 06:59:39 AM »
Lets get this straight: As far as my opinion go, our support weapons aren't bad weapons, it is just, as you stated, that they are outshined by better Heavy choices and do not do well in highly competitive environment.
That said, I used D-Cannon, Shadow Weavers and Vibro-Vannon in 4th ed and they did well enough, D-Cannons being a great deterrent when it comes to protect your battleline, a nice NO-GO zone.

In 5th Ed, as you made it clear, blast are much more dangerous, but that is compensated by the harder time we generally have to keep them out of LOS given the new nature of terrain and Outflank/Deepstrike, but if you can expect some LOS blocking cover to hide them behind they may really shine.

IN 5th ed, I have personal experience with Shadow Weavers (batteries of three), and I must say that far back and behind cover they can get very annoying very fast, even against MEQs, as a full salvo hit can well net you a 10-12 hits with a bit of luck, and never mind cover.
Great unit too to hit those enemy units (often fragile ones) hiding behind LOS terrain themselves and disrupt enemy lines. The fact that they are quite cheap is also a good point in their favor, as if you lose them it doesn't hurt too much, and the relatively low threat for points they represent and the fact that they are not Scoring usually means that they may well be ignored for better, more juicy targets.

That said, in a Kill Point game they are easy, tempting targets, so always plan for them as they will a) eventually die and b) you'd better try to make that as difficult as possible to your opponent, especially with an Iyanden list where KP are hard to come by for the enemy.
As for the Dawn of War scenario, I'd say it is one of the main reason NOT to spend all of your Heavy Support options in as they will start outside the table, making it difficult to have them in both a good firing solution and cover, especially D-Cannon due to their short range.

Last point, that I haven't seen mentioned, is that an upgrade Warlock (also helps for negating Wraithlord's Wraithsight in a firebase), as a part of the battery's crew, can use his BS to fire the weapons, so as long as the Warlock is alive and he have a LOS to his target it will augment the general % of hits, surely a thing to consider.

Nice article(s) bebe, this one will get a place in the POC's Great Library, Strategy & Tactic shelf. Keep up the good work.

   Starky

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Offline bebe

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Re: Iyanden and support weapons - anyone use them?
« Reply #2 on: June 2, 2009, 08:55:26 AM »
My original article is linked and was written on another site in response to a query on D-Cannons. I did not however, go into detail about why I employ them in my Iyanden lists which is all I play now when fielding Eldar. They seem almost tailored for our lists.

Quote
Last point, that I haven't seen mentioned, is that an upgrade Warlock (also helps for negating Wraithlord's Wraithsight in a firebase), as a part of the battery's crew, can use his BS to fire the weapons, so as long as the Warlock is alive and he have a LOS to his target it will augment the general % of hits, surely a thing to consider.

The Warlock ups the cost of the unit quite substantially so we need to consider whether those points are best spent elsewhere as the squad is an easy target and the Warlock makes it that much more tempting. I have used Warlocks with conceal in the squad but I now field the batteries naked. Since I'm using batteries in low points games I really need to watch my upgrades. If you have the points he can be worthwhile.

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That said, in a Kill Point game they are easy, tempting targets,

Yep. Cover is really needed but thankfully we do not need LoS.

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IN 5th ed, I have personal experience with Shadow Weavers (batteries of three)

These are the cheapest battery by far and as you say can become very annoying. I've been using a battery of two V-Cannons lately with nice results and they might become a fixture in my lists below 1500 points.

Thank you for taking the time to add your thoughts and the compliment. BTW, i hope you enjoyed my 'song' in the PoC thread.

« Last Edit: June 2, 2009, 09:53:05 AM by bebe »
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Offline haunt

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Re: Iyanden and support weapons - anyone use them?
« Reply #3 on: June 4, 2009, 01:26:16 AM »
I use Shadow Weaver due to cheapness and longer range. My secondary is D-Cannon for tank busting capability from afar and behind cover.
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