Topic: 2000 Aspect Centric List - What else does this list need?

[sunstrider]

Hi everyone!

Lately an army list concept has been knocking around in my head, and while I'm sure about what the core of it will be comprised of, I'm unsure of the support elements that can make up for the list's weak points. First, let me start with the list as it stands (it uses the Pale Courts Battlehost in the Doom of Mymeara supplement):

Pale Courts Battlehost (Core Formation) 735 Points Total
- Forgotten Remnants Traits:
> Aspect Lord-Shrine (Shadow Spectres)

Farseer 130
Skyrunner
Spirit Stone of Anath'lan

4 Warlocks 200
Skyrunners

5 Shadow Spectres 135
Exarch

5 Shadow Spectres 135
Exarch

5 Shadow Spectres 135
Exarch

Aspect Host (Auxiliary Choice) 480 Points Total

10 Dire Avengers 160
Exarch w/Power Weapon and Shimmershield

10 Dire Avengers 160
Exarch w/Diresword and Shuriken Pistol

10 Dire Avengers 160
Exarch w/Diresword and Shuriken Pistol

Living Legends (Command Choice) 220 Points Total

Asurmen, the Hand of Asuryan 220

Points total so far: 1235

My thoughts on the list so far:
- Asurmen will be the warlord
- Asurmen will join the unit of Dire Avengers with the shimmershield
- the farseer and seer council will be focusing on blessings and maledictions instead of direct damage (they won't need to focus on damage, Dire Avengers and Shadow Spectres shell out enough of that as it is)
- the Shadow Spectres will have a solid hold on the anti-armor role, given how the ghostlight rule works
- the Dire Avengers will be the frontline elements in the list, screening for the shadow spectres and seer council, getting aided via blessings or supporting fire as situation dictates
- there is synergy between the Diresword and the shadow spectre exarch's power Shadow of Death. That's why I decided to include so many direswords in the list

Possible additions to the list I thought of:
- the Crimson Death formation: the list lacks a reliable way to deal with flyers, so having 3 flyers that specialize in air combat is a natural choice
- Engines of Vaul formation: Given all the units in this list that operate best at 18" range, having long range fire support elements would be another obvious choice. Arguments could be made for either fire prisms or nightspinners, both could work well in this list
- Aspect Host (including Dark Reapers/Swooping Hawks/Striking Scorpions/Howling Banshees): Including another aspect host, this time diversifying the aspects chosen could increase the utility of a list that is otherwise quite straightforward
- Wraith-Construct (Wraithknight): A solid choice that most people opt for regardless of the list
- Lord of the Undying Host: The Wraithseer is an intriguing unit in itself, and having wraithblades to absorb the opponents heavy hitting units would be nice, although their purpose would overlap with the Dire Avengers a bit

Obviously, I've been thinking of this concept for awhile now, but I'm more interested in your thoughts. How do you feel about the synergy of the units so far? Would you remove anything as it stands or would you only add to it? What would you add?

P.S. I've used units and formations from the Doom of Mymeara supplement, so I apologize if my using these things has left you unable to comment. They are just too tempting not to use

[Sarkrim]

As you mentioned yourself, you would struggle a lot against flyers of any kind. Crimson Death is one way to deal with them and it's amazing in my opinion. Another way could be an aspect host with Dark Reapers and Swooping Hawks.

Why those and why both? Well the Hawks can take out flyers like there's no tomorrow and with their extremely high movement flyers will struggle to hide from them and if you can force them to fly off the table you don't have to worry about them.

Dark Reapers can handle flyers, if they're zooming as it gives them a reroll to hit. However they can also take down flying monstrous creatures if they're in swooping mode. Alternatively massed shuriken fire can do a number on FMCs.

Other than that, you might want to add a close combat threat, just in case you run into something you can't just shoot to death, or at least not before it reaches your lines. I prefer a melee wraithknight as it's tough as nails and frankly serves a dual role of close combat smashing and diversion. A lot of people seem to just focus everything on the damn thing as soon as they see it. It seems to be hardwired into their brains.

[sunstrider]

Hi Sarkrim (aka fellow aspect lover ),

Yeah I think the Crimson Death formation is exactly what this list needs to threaten both airborne threats and any vehicles my shadow spectres can't readily reach (even with that 18" range, running and thrust moves).

And I've been thinking more about a frontline unit to soak up charges and put on the hurt in close combat. While I do like the more or less default choice of a wraithknight, I moreso like the idea of using the new Lord of the Undying Host command formation from the Doom of Mymeara book. The wraithseer is a really cool looking model I've had my eye on for years now, and wraithblades w/wraithaxes and forceshields can definitely mop up anything my dire avengers and shadow spectres can't entirely shoot off the board

I'll write up another list soon for review, thanks for your input

[Fenris]

I think you're onto something really good here. In addition to the crimson death and the wraithknight, witch will do wonders to long range antitank and antiMC.
While the conclave can hold up thinks in CC, I think you need something that hits hard in CC, like shining spears or howling banshees, so for points sake you may want to consider only taking a single crimson hunter. A shooty wraithknight will help out a lot in the antitank department.

Not sure exactly how the shadowspectres abilities has synergy with the diresword, however anything boosting the diresword is awesome Maybe it could do something for banshees too?

I suppose you are not taking the DA Shrine due to you want the direswords. It leaves me thinking, are you going for a boost in BS or in WS with the aspect host?

I also wouldn't add fire prisms since the shadow spectres still have mini-prisms, (right?)

[sunstrider]

I think you're onto something really good here. In addition to the crimson death and the wraithknight, witch will do wonders to long range antitank and antiMC.
While the conclave can hold up thinks in CC, I think you need something that hits hard in CC, like shining spears or howling banshees, so for points sake you may want to consider only taking a single crimson hunter. A shooty wraithknight will help out a lot in the antitank department.

I included the conclave for all the utility it provides in the different phases of the game. Although you are right all the same, I'm in need of something that hits hard in CC. At this points level, close combat is a fact. As I mentioned in a response to Sarkrim, I was thinking of including a wraithknight or the Lord of the Undying Host formation for DoM (Doom of Mymeara supplement). The Lord of the Undying Host formation includes 1 wraithseer (a unit from DoM) and 1-3 units of wraithblades. So I could either take a wraithknight and tool it for tankhunting or get a few units that can hold their own in CC.

Not sure exactly how the shadowspectres abilities has synergy with the diresword, however anything boosting the diresword is awesome Maybe it could do something for banshees too?

The synergy lies in the fact that the shadow spectres exarch ability makes it so that leadership tests are taken on more than 2d6 when within close range of the shadow spectre squad (have to be vague due to forum rules sorry >.< ). So making the diresword leadership test on more than 2d6 means it has a far higher chance of succeeding.

I suppose you are not taking the DA Shrine due to you want the direswords. It leaves me thinking, are you going for a boost in BS or in WS with the aspect host?

I actually would take a Dire Avenger Shrine of I could, but using the Aspect Lord-Shrine rule for the Pale Courts Battlehost makes it so I can't take the Dire Avenger Shrine formation. So I decided to throw in a bunch of direswords cause they are awesome and the aforementioned synergy.

I also wouldn't add fire prisms since the shadow spectres still have mini-prisms, (right?)

Yeah I'm leaning towards not taking them, since they do overlap tactically with the shadow spectres. But they have 60" range where shadow spectres have 18" range. So I thought they were worth considering at least.

[Sarkrim]

Have you thought about using the craftworld trait that allows you to bring a harlequin troupe as a part of the warhost?

Either that or Karandras and a smallish "bodyguard" unit of scorpions for the close combat punch. The few times (so far) I've used them, they absolutely destroy things in close combat.

[sunstrider]

Have you thought about using the craftworld trait that allows you to bring a harlequin troupe as a part of the warhost?

Either that or Karandras and a smallish "bodyguard" unit of scorpions for the close combat punch. The few times (so far) I've used them, they absolutely destroy things in close combat.

Yeah double scorpion claws sounds brutal. I think I'm gonna stick with Asurmen for a phoenix lord and get wraith constructs involved for CC in this list.

In another aspect list though, the inclusion of Kanadras is not out of the realm of possibility

Concerning Harlequins, I've briefly considered that battlehost trait, but so far what my list needs is CC units that can soak up damage and deal it back in return. Harlequins are a really effective charging unit, but melt pretty easily under pressure. Coupled with the fact that you can't also include a shadowseer in that troupe, and footslogging those harlequins effectively becomes all the more difficult.

But perhaps you had the harlequins in mind for something other than general close combat?

[Sarkrim]

I had something in mind yes but it's somewhat of a specialised list (see my post in the close combat thread). On their own without backup they might be in trouble. Unless you can present more important targets, like a distraction wraithknight or can invisible them.

Because if they get to charge they will kill their target on that turn with little or no losses. Especially if you bring nothing but caresses and max out the squad.

Let's just say their damage output gets a bit silly. I agree that it's not without issues to include them.

[sunstrider]

I see your points Sarkrim. Even if I were to include the wraithseer + wraithblades I was planning on, they wouldn't generate nearly as many attacks as wraith constructs. And if you outfit the squad with caresses like you said, they can effectively threaten everything (seriously, caresses are broke af).

I'll consider them in the next version of this list, which I will find time to write soon TM