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Author Topic: ...Their Number is Death - Necron Warriors  (Read 4304 times)

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Offline aetherguy881

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Re: ...Their Number is Death - Necron Warriors
« Reply #20 on: July 5, 2006, 12:26:20 PM »
Quote
To add, ordinary necrons seem to be some of the toughest things around. Not only do they get a 3+ save, but the entire army also has a pseudo 4+ invulnerable save.

The whole army doesn't have a 4+ inv, only 2 do, the Night Bringer and the Deciever.

The 4+ is the wbb.
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Offline Mr. Mellow Mortil the Mellifluous

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Re: ...Their Number is Death - Necron Warriors
« Reply #21 on: July 5, 2006, 12:38:23 PM »
that's why I called it a pseudo 4+ save. It's actually quite much better then a 4+ inv. save, because you get both the normal save, and the 4+ chance to get back on your feet again. But for simplicity I called it a 4+ inv. save.

Still, I haven't heard anyone about their experience with list much like these. Has anyone ever tried it? I'm still curious

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Offline LeVoidDragon

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Re: ...Their Number is Death - Necron Warriors
« Reply #22 on: July 5, 2006, 01:35:00 PM »
nope never tried it, though it sounds pretty fun to play
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Offline The King of Ashes

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Re: ...Their Number is Death - Necron Warriors
« Reply #23 on: July 6, 2006, 06:10:51 PM »
3 Ravager, 9 plasma cannon equivelant Weapons on a vehicle. I just sit back and lick my chops with that.

Dreadnaughts, Lascannon, Basilisk, all those things (termies, move and shoot heavies!). Just sit back while the Necrons moan and groan at chya. When it comes too close, then you have to get your hands dirty, but not after lots of pounding and lots of loss on your part.

Edit-->Not sure exactly how touchy Gamesworkshop is about this anymore, but definitely avoid posting weapon statlines in the future.
I would just use a lord with VOD, and blow up one tank every turn. This works nice if you wait till your entire force is in a good spot so that when you deep strike in that every thing moves to a corner and gets trapped or moves into the rest of your army. Even all that fire power will not kill a squad of twenty being that they are all going to get WBB. Then if the squad runs low teleport back and get a new one. Only takes one round to move back and get a new squad. Now I am new to necrons so this is all assuming VOD works every turn like I think it does.

At 2000pt
Lord orb VOD
Lord orb
Warriors x20x4
Warriors x12

Phase out 77 killed

How would I do this, I would move all my warriors I could in to cover while trying to cover as much of the board as I could. First turn deep strike right in on your army shooting your biggest threat. If lucky there was cover where I deep strike in I move in it next turn. If I don’t want to get assaulted like it matters anyways twenty shots from 24 inches will most likely take any tank.  Really by turn three or four if I had to change squads you will have no heavy support left and I will have lost about 300-400 points. Sure it is not a perfect army, but I just think to come on here and flat out say something will not work is pretty ignorant. 

Offline Foxfire

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Re: ...Their Number is Death - Necron Warriors
« Reply #24 on: July 6, 2006, 06:20:32 PM »
VOD works one time per turn, so you can veil back one turn, but must wait until next turn to bring up another unit.  Also, the unit counts as having moved, thus it can only shoot twelve inches.  One Lord with a veil of darkness and twenty Warriors would be pretty much incapable of performing as you describe.  Nine out of every ten times you aren't going to have every model within 12', and if you do, it's likely because you scattered into base to base with someone, in which case you have lost some of your Warriors with no chance at WBB.  Keep in mind that getting charged in close combat gives the enemy a chance to destroy your unit with a sweeping advance result, which would slaughter the Lord as well as every Necron in the unit.


Offline The King of Ashes

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Re: ...Their Number is Death - Necron Warriors
« Reply #25 on: July 7, 2006, 07:08:12 PM »
Well not being one to sit around and speculate what will and will not happen, and the fact it was game night. I decided to do an all warrior list 2000pt verses a marine player.

List
Necrons
Lord Orb VOD
Lord Orb

Warriors 20x4,   12x1

Marines
Chaplain MOS plasma pistol, combat shield, terminator honors, jump pack, bionic

Dreads x3 lascannon, missile launcher, venerable

Marines 5x6 lascannon, plasma gun

Assault squadron 10x1 terminator honors plasma pistol x3 power weapon

Land speeder typhoon x1

Predator destructors x3 lascannon  sponsons

Well quit frankly I just have to say you have way two little faith in warriors in close combat. With their high WS, T, LD they are not going to die fast, and they will not run away. I had six warriors hold the chaplain for two rounds before the game ended! Second I have to say an all warrior list is about as boring as they come. This was the hole game I advanced into cover sat there the hole game the marine player barely moved and unloaded on me every turn. It was as fun as a slug race. Used terrain from Macragg, and two buildings.  The only exciding things that happened were the few rounds of assault.

First turn marines went first opened up not much happed, I DS a squad in on my turn killed a dread. I really had no trouble with DS through the game. One time I had three models out of range. DS is all about think of the best stop to come in. It is risky rarely.

Turn two marines open up down go a few more crons. I got assaulted by the Chaplin and Assault squad. Chaplin and plasma killed of some crons down to 11. I passed LD no problem. My turn 5 crons get back up. So I then DS behind some cover from the rest of the army other then the assault squad. I RF the squad with some really good luck the hole squad went down other then the SRG and plasma pistols.

Turn three more shooting few crons drop I got assaulted again passed LD and the squad was below half. My turn I DS back to main force sitting in cover sat there the rest of the game because I only had one squad under half strength at the time.


Long story short by the end of Game I won with only the 12 man and one twenty man squad under half. I killed one marine squad, the assault squad, dread, and the land speeder. It was long it was boring and I would never recommend playing this army.

Offline Foxfire

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Re: ...Their Number is Death - Necron Warriors
« Reply #26 on: July 7, 2006, 07:58:41 PM »
Your luck doesn't change the unpredictability of veiling the way you describe.  I've been playing a good long time, and one game isn't about to disprove what I know to be true.  The skill level of your opponent is questionable(did he make sure to mow down your other Warriors with his lascannons while the Resurrection Orb was away?), plus, you were facing a ranged Space Marine with a single unit designated for close-combat, that doesn't constitute being reliable in combat.  Warrior units usually lose combat, which means that they will usually be rolling leadership at the end of every combat phase.  This means that any unlucky rolls(which can't be banked on) leave you praying that the other player rolls low for Sweeping Advance while you roll very high. 

My point here is that your example is relatively weak, especially if there was enough cover for all of your Warriors to be in cover.  Going all Warriors pretty much guarantees that you will not be phased out, but it also guarantees that you will be susceptible to close combat.  Be glad that the guy at your games day did not have a dedicated close combat army.

And yes, I concur, an all-Warrior force is boring as all get-out.

Offline The King of Ashes

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Re: ...Their Number is Death - Necron Warriors
« Reply #27 on: July 8, 2006, 09:22:13 PM »
Do not mistake my newness to Necrons for newness to this game. Yes DS is risky but with proper planning you can bring the risk down to minimal. The way you are putting it, DS sound like it is not a viable tactic in 40k. Now you can say all you want but bad luck is bad luck. You cannot say something will not work because you may have bad luck. With a bad die role anything can happen in this game.

It may be 1 game and sure it does not prove every thing but it is more proof then your opinion that is not backed up by anything but what you think. I did not say this list is perfect or will win every game, but what list is? It has its strengths and weakness I played to its strengths and won. I already know what I would do different if I where to play it again and bring out more of it strength.

You guys are all sitting here saying this list will never work though meta gaming, but there is not a list you could make that I could not build a counter list to it. In fact played with skill I would say that this list would have a good chance to win any tournament you bring it to. Not many tournament lists would be able to handle and put out the amount of fire power needed. The biggest fear for this list would be running in to a lot of pie plates.

I never said warriors would win assault I was just merely stating they are adequate enough to withstanding it and holding the line as needed. To say LD 10 units will run commonly is just a bunch of bull. With fours being what is needed in most combat they will not take huge casualties often, and they will still get there WBB role most of the time.
As to tactics if you look I had two lords, I always had at least half a unit in range of a orb. Due to wound rules I always put the wounds on warriors within range of the orb. Due to terrain place meant I almost always had a +4 cover save. There was not much that could have been done about that. To get around the cover would have required to may lose of shots and put every thing in range of my warriors.

Less then the standard 25% was used. The only terrain I used to was the main body and the big wing from the Macragge box set. As 20 warriors make take up six inches packed together it was easy to fit them all in a behind the terrain. To end this I never said this would beat an assault list in fact I don’t see where you got that. I do agree that a dedicated assault army would be a real weakness for this list, but all armies have them. This whole thing was directed at this comment.
3 Ravager, 9 plasma cannon equivelant Weapons on a vehicle. I just sit back and lick my chops with that.

Dreadnaughts, Lascannon, Basilisk, all those things (termies, move and shoot heavies!). Just sit back while the Necrons moan and groan at chya. When it comes too close, then you have to get your hands dirty, but not after lots of pounding and lots of loss on your part.

Edit-->Not sure exactly how touchy Gamesworkshop is about this anymore, but definitely avoid posting weapon statlines in the future.
If I played this army long enough I think I would come to find dedicated assault armies and pie plate throwing armies would have a easier time beating this list.



Offline Foxfire

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Re: ...Their Number is Death - Necron Warriors
« Reply #28 on: July 9, 2006, 08:25:29 AM »
Look KoA, don't take it the wrong way.  I don't mean to imply that it's unplayable, but my opinion is based off of experience, same as yours.  The point I am trying to make is that excessive use of the Veil of Darkness in the way you describe invites luck to have more of a role.  Sure, if you always roll high and have horrendous dice-rolling, there isn't much you can do about it.  But that doesn't mean you have to throw your units out there and invite someone to make you take those leadership rolls.  My main problem with veiling Warriors is that the majority of them usually aren't in range of your target, and that they are very susceptible to all manner of things once separated from the main body of the army.  If you want specific examples so you can understand where I'm coming from, I can provide them for you.

Veiling against Marines means that if you land within firing range, you face return fire of significantly greater strength than you put out in the first place(since their entire army can essentially be in range of your veiled Warriors), followed by any melee units they have brought along with them.  Even if you veil in such a way as to be outside of melee range(difficult since you're aiming to get within 12 to rapid fire them), you are still apt to take more bludgeoning than they did in the return fire.  Since all you have is Warriors, and allegedly you had Resurrection Orb on everyone, there are no targets on the table that are any better than the veiled one, so they can safely level all guns on the one unit, and basically take it out of the runnings to veil again, meaning you'll have to take it back next turn.  Maybe the Marine player you faced lacked the firepower to accomplish this?  It probably differs on a case by case basis, but I trust you can see where I'm coming from?

Against Tau, you might do significant damage, but with any decent amount of markerlights they can cut your plan short very quickly.  If they have eight in the entire army, they can reduce the veiled unit to Ld 6, and then focus all fire on that unit, forcing a leadership roll which you have a very good chance of failing, and sending the unit falling back rather than veiling back.  This in effect stops you from utilizing your Lord's abilities(since he's falling back as well), and ruins the entire setup, taking your one and only Veil of Darkness out of the game.

Against Tyranids, Orks, or combat oriented Space/Chaos Marines, this tactic would be completely useless, but since you have conceded the trouble with melee lists, I won't elaborate.  My problem is with the short range of Warriors after being veiled.  Now if you would stop assuming that everyone else is just talking through "meta-gaming" and assuming that someone will bring a counter-list, you might figure out that other people have legitimate concerns with the list.

Offline TheGreatAvatar

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Re: ...Their Number is Death - Necron Warriors
« Reply #29 on: July 9, 2006, 09:39:23 PM »
I've got to agree with Fox here.  I use to run with a VoD but gave it due to the greater risk and limited use (Veiling Immortals is the only viable tactic).

Warriors are not great in CC, period.  I2 is just a killer.  I sweat everytime my warriors lose combat.  I seem to roll 11 more times than not for leadership and then watch as my unit is swept.  Not fun.



Offline allconsuminghat

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Re: ...Their Number is Death - Necron Warriors
« Reply #30 on: July 12, 2006, 05:13:38 AM »
Adding immortals in to it couldn't be a bad thing, they are basically just beefed up warriors so it still fits in with the theme but it means the army has the ability to move and still shoot 2 feet, with a higher strength gun and it pierces tau armour, aspect warrior armour, stormtroopers etc... at least somethibg should be in range of them turn 1 and if not, then turn 2. The boosted toughness helps make up for the fewer numbers, but with less enemies to shoot at you, you'll be takin less firepower. I am considering starting a necron army with just warriors, immortalas and a lord with Perhaps a couple of tomb spyders or a few destroyers, I don't like destroyers much but it seems pratical to use them. I would include a monolith because I LOVE what they do in game, the teleporting, the added resiliance, and one of the only ways to deny marines their save plus a huge fire magnet but It just wouldn't be practical,, I just can't see myself assembling, painting and transporting something as big as a monolith.
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Re: ...Their Number is Death - Necron Warriors
« Reply #31 on: July 14, 2006, 03:31:26 PM »
I've got to agree with Fox here.  I use to run with a VoD but gave it due to the greater risk and limited use (Veiling Immortals is the only viable tactic).

Warriors are not great in CC, period.  I2 is just a killer.  I sweat everytime my warriors lose combat.  I seem to roll 11 more times than not for leadership and then watch as my unit is swept.  Not fun.

Been there had that done to me....I had a whole 20 Warrior(Minus 5 casualties) unit swept by a Blood Angel Honor Guard.....

Keep them away from anything to do with CC. Teleport them back thru the lith if you have too! Just don't CC!
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Offline Kritik

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Re: ...Their Number is Death - Necron Warriors
« Reply #32 on: July 18, 2006, 11:08:41 PM »
Just saying, 1 game doesn't empirically prove anything. For all we know, the Chaos person was probably really bad at the game (or really good, no one knows). Just one game doesn't prove anything and the threat of a bad DS roll is there. Also, shooting within 12" means that most likely, everyone can get HtH w/ you the next player's turn. Not fun.

Just saying that these are things one need to watch out for.

Also, the list is question has 1~3 monoliths in it.
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