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Author Topic: What do you think of Abortion?  (Read 16358 times)

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Offline Plato XXIV

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What do you think of Abortion?
« on: June 14, 2005, 10:36:00 PM »
Hey  ;)

I, being a Catholic, think abortion is bad, not only because my religion teaches it, but also because it is basically killing. I am 100% against it, unless it is an etopic pregnancy and the woman must do it to survive.

What are your opinions?


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Offline Captain Leonidas

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Re: What do you think of Abortion?
« Reply #1 on: June 14, 2005, 10:47:30 PM »
Agreed. A Catholic here too. Many abortions are sadly done NOT on health/life-death reasons but on the grounds of social pressure   
 -> accidental pregnancy, 'not ready' (either by accident or rape cases), and many other 'hip and young' social stigma with bearing children as well as economic reasons one.

Wishing not to have kids ? Think beforehand and there's a wide range of contraceptives available. 100% chance of not having kids ? Refrain from any sexual intercourse.Simple.

Rape pregnancy and cases can be handled upon other than abortion. Many hotlines available and many parents who for some reason are unable to produce one are more than willing to adopt kids. However rape pregnancy is always a very, very minority case and is a moot point to defend abortion.
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Offline Plato XXIV

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Re: What do you think of Abortion?
« Reply #2 on: June 14, 2005, 11:03:02 PM »
wow, the first catholic i've met on a forum. and yes, i agree. if you are pregnant it's usually because God wants you to be.


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Offline TheOnlySpiral

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Re: What do you think of Abortion?
« Reply #3 on: June 14, 2005, 11:12:02 PM »
I think it's the woman's body, and it's her choice.  I don't think a fetus constitues human life until well into the pregnancy, making it AOK in my mind. 
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Offline Tuisich-Anastari

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Re: What do you think of Abortion?
« Reply #4 on: June 14, 2005, 11:13:31 PM »
I'm not Catholic.  I'm a Protestant--Reformed Baptist, I suppose.  I'm with you guys on this issue, though.  There are only a couple of possible exceptions (such as ectopic pregnancy), and those are really quite rare, as I understand it.  I think Roe v. Wade makes a mockery  of the Separation of Powers and is a real black mark upon our judicial system.  I look forward to its being overturned one day.

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Offline October 19th

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Re: What do you think of Abortion?
« Reply #5 on: June 14, 2005, 11:18:31 PM »
I dont know a whole lot about abortion, but from what I see the medical process usually occours before the baby is developed, or in the very early stages (ie. to a blob of cells, not a human).  This blob of cells canot think or act independently yet, so as far as I see it, it is still physically a part of the mother.  I dont see any reason why the mother should not be able to choose what happens to her own body.  I view it kind of like last resort, extreme and expensive type of contraceptive.

Socially, i believe it is also beneficial.  If abortion is legal, there would be less unwanted bastard children out sleeping on the streets. :'(

Offline Jarem Asyder

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Re: What do you think of Abortion?
« Reply #6 on: June 14, 2005, 11:55:54 PM »
I'm for it being a choice. I dont like it and I think it should be a choice of last resort, but I can see its merit.

I tend to look at things pragmatically, not religiously btw.

firstly, I believe that life begins at birth, not conception or anytime beforehand. Of course, you have to define what life is. You could say life began billions of years ago and thats that.

Next, I think other factors need to be weighed in on someone's belief of whether its wrong or not, theres health issues and social issues. Is it right for a child to be born to a family that wont take care of him or her? Theres also the problem of overpopulation, which is a SERIOUS concern. And theres the problem with sexual predators and rape and incest, both attrocious crimes. The mental and psycological strain is something that would be very difficult to imagine.

I think its something that should be left to a woman and ONLY a woman. Its one of those things that you cant really make an educated answer on unless you've been affected by it somehow.

on the other hand, if some dumbass gets knocked up for being easy or sleeping around, its their fault and they should pay the penalty for it. Of course, sometimes that ends in tragedy far worse than abortion (like when a pregnant teen gives birth then dumps the baby in a dumpster.)

Offline Spiritbw

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Re: What do you think of Abortion?
« Reply #7 on: June 15, 2005, 12:21:02 AM »
Interesting that this topic started just now.  Been cruising the internet and found this rather...well it's an article that might raise some new questions on this issue.  Take a look:  http://slate.msn.com/id/2120872/fr/ifr/nav/ais/fr/ifr/nav/ais/

On one hand, it might be usefull, but only if you consider things form a scientific point of view.  If you base things more of religion, you might consider it more of a travisty.
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Offline Plato XXIV

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Re: What do you think of Abortion?
« Reply #8 on: June 15, 2005, 12:30:50 AM »
i think that's great that they can determine exactly when life begins, but to me it will still not justify abortion.


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Offline Aronious

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Re: What do you think of Abortion?
« Reply #9 on: June 15, 2005, 12:32:41 AM »
I think that if you make the mistake to have sex without protection, or without taking pills, then you should be responsible for the child. But if you remove abortion, then I also think that it should be replaced with putting the fetus up for Stem Cell research, but should remain a choice.

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Offline Captain Leonidas

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Re: What do you think of Abortion?
« Reply #10 on: June 15, 2005, 12:59:49 AM »
I dont know a whole lot about abortion, but from what I see the medical process usually occours before the baby is developed, or in the very early stages (ie. to a blob of cells, not a human).  This blob of cells canot think or act independently yet, so as far as I see it, it is still physically a part of the mother.  I dont see any reason why the mother should not be able to choose what happens to her own body.  I view it kind of like last resort, extreme and expensive type of contraceptive.

I believe you have never witnessed an abortion process then ?

How can you say they have no independent will ? It is true indeed the foetus is still part of mother but when the abortion process is being done, the foetus can react, kicking the (whatever thing they use to take the foetus out) with what little response they can do they tried to defend for their puny little lives ? Is this not a sign of independent will ? Abortion equals abhorrent killing!

The right of living beats the right of choice. Choice or not the women had already MADE her choice when the conception took place. Now responsibility surely must be carried out.
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Offline carbine

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Re: What do you think of Abortion?
« Reply #11 on: June 15, 2005, 01:31:32 AM »
I am for abortion. It is the womans body and it is her choice. Many times the woman has a good excuse to abort the child.
I am especially for abortions if the woman/girl is under 18. These people are usually too young to handle a baby, and it could mess up thier lives. And if they wanted the baby, then they could still have it.
No abortions are another law that gives a good example of the government trying to run our lives. Abortions should be an option, and if the pregnant woman wants to have one she should be able to.
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Offline Captain Leonidas

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Re: What do you think of Abortion?
« Reply #12 on: June 15, 2005, 01:34:07 AM »
Many times the woman has a good excuse to abort the child.

Give me one particular example of 'good excuse' for abortion please.

If I have a good excuse that I don't like you, may I kill you instead ?

Just for a thought.

As for 18 years of pregnancy, I thought that was sex ed was all about and the churches yapping to at best hold on to your chastity till at least you are ready (as in marriage). You always have a choice I believe. But will your choice compromise a human life is a deeply questioned thought.
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Offline October 19th

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Re: What do you think of Abortion?
« Reply #13 on: June 15, 2005, 01:36:52 AM »
I dont know a whole lot about abortion, but from what I see the medical process usually occours before the baby is developed, or in the very early stages (ie. to a blob of cells, not a human).  This blob of cells canot think or act independently yet, so as far as I see it, it is still physically a part of the mother.  I dont see any reason why the mother should not be able to choose what happens to her own body.  I view it kind of like last resort, extreme and expensive type of contraceptive.
I believe you have never witnessed an abortion process then ?

How can you say they have no independent will ? It is true indeed the foetus is still part of mother but when the abortion process is being done, the foetus can react, kicking the (whatever thing they use to take the foetus out) with what little response they can do they tried to defend for their puny little lives ? Is this not a sign of independent will ? Abortion equals abhorrent killing!

I admit that is murder.  Killing a baby, while it is apparently alive like that, is murder.

I have heard of abortions taking place in the very early stages however, like before the babies brain or organs are developed.  Again, i dont know a whole lot about abortion, but i feel that so long as its done befor the baby is formed, when its a blob of cells, it is not alive in the nature a human would be in

Offline TheOnlySpiral

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Re: What do you think of Abortion?
« Reply #14 on: June 15, 2005, 01:42:33 AM »
Give me one particular example of 'good excuse' for abortion please.
The baby is going to ba abandoned in the African jungle because there is no system to take it and the village doesn't want to care for it.

If I have a good excuse that I don't like you, may I kill you instead ?
No.  There are laws against that.  There is no law against abortion, in fact most abortion laws protect the woman's right.  If you don't like that, you can move to a country where there are no such laws.  But if you want to live here, in this society then there are rules you have to follow.  Also to most people, comparing abortion to murder is like calling medicine against an illness murder.

I have heard of abortions taking place in the very early stages however, like before the babies brain or organs are developed.  Again, i dont know a whole lot about abortion, but i feel that so long as its done befor the baby is formed, when its a blob of cells, it is not alive in the nature a human would be in
A very reasonable belief.  I agree whole heartedly.
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Offline carbine

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Re: What do you think of Abortion?
« Reply #15 on: June 15, 2005, 01:47:24 AM »
Commissar: Give me one particular example of 'good excuse' for abortion please.

The baby may kill the mother during birth, the mother is very young and is not ready to take care of the baby, the mother is very poor and would not be able to take care of the baby, the mother is a drug/ alcohol abuser and the child may have severe mental/phyhsical problems, the baby is a product of a rape. Good enough?

Didn't mention this in my first post but I am against late-teram abortions because I feel at that point the baby is formed and is not a blob of cells. And to your last post OnlySpiral I could not agree more.
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Offline Rasmus

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Re: What do you think of Abortion?
« Reply #16 on: June 15, 2005, 02:28:34 AM »
For me it is an issue of intent, not consequence.
If the life of the mother is threatened, or she is incapable of caring for the child abortion can be considered an alternative (one among many. There are others.)
But if someone just doesn't feel that the "time is right" or that it is inconvenient then it is not an alternative. It is a big complicated, but I am sure you get my drift.

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Offline October 19th

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Re: What do you think of Abortion?
« Reply #17 on: June 15, 2005, 02:30:22 AM »
The baby may kill the mother during birth, the mother is very young and is not ready to take care of the baby, the mother is very poor and would not be able to take care of the baby, the mother is a drug/ alcohol abuser and the child may have severe mental/phyhsical problems, the baby is a product of a rape. Good enough?

Killing innocent people is wrong

Killing innocent babies is even worse

Theres no excuse to kill a baby.

Offline carbine

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Re: What do you think of Abortion?
« Reply #18 on: June 15, 2005, 02:32:24 AM »
Back that up. How do you think?
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Offline TheOnlySpiral

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Re: What do you think of Abortion?
« Reply #19 on: June 15, 2005, 02:34:24 AM »
For me it is an issue of intent, not consequence.
If the life of the mother is threatened, or she is incapable of caring for the child abortion can be considered an alternative (one among many. There are others.)
But if someone just doesn't feel that the "time is right" or that it is inconvenient then it is not an alternative. It is a big complicated, but I am sure you get my drift.
You make a good point I forgot about those peope somehow...the people who get multiple abortions because they aren't ready...or never use any contreceptives are criminal and should be charged. Not with murder mind you...but some form of negligence.
 
Killing innocent people is wrong
Killing innocent babies is even worse
Theres no excuse to kill a baby.
So your're saying it's better to loose the Mother and the Child? Or in my example, it's ok to leave it to die fully developed?
« Last Edit: June 15, 2005, 02:35:48 AM by TheOnlySpiral »
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