News: No news is good news...

Login  |  Register

Author Topic: Guns!  (Read 27493 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline [dixon]

  • I pretend to be other users
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7191
  • BANNED
Re: Guns!
« Reply #20 on: October 11, 2005, 12:10:24 AM »
The entire idea of having a gun for self protection is stupid. You either put it in a place with easy access in case of a burglar, then a kid picks it up and blows his head off

That's why you teach your kid gun safety too.  If I had a kid I'd make damn sure he knew how to handle a gun at the earliest age possible, not so he can use it, but so he knows not to use it.  And easy access for you doesn't mean easy access for your kid.  Just keep it somewhere the kid doesn't go, but make sure he knows it's there.

As a gun owner, it is your responsibilty to make sure everyone in your household practices good gun safety, regardless of whether they will ever use the weapon or not.
I pretended to be other members, and finally got BANNED

Offline Archon_Yggdrisil

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 2733
  • That....was METAL!
Re: Guns!
« Reply #21 on: October 11, 2005, 12:17:39 AM »
I'd never want my kid near a gun. A baseball bat? Sure. Or teach him martial arts. The only reason that the founding fathers put that in the constitution was so that they could have a militia. Before that, no one really owned guns except trappers.

Do we have need of a militia now? No.

 Life is not measured by the moments in which we breath. Life is measured by the moments that take our breath away. -Carlin

Offline TheOnlySpiral

  • Keeper of the Book of Salvation; Last of the Timelords
  • Ancient
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2616
  • Country: ca
  • Returned from the Immaterium
  • Armies: Deathwing
Re: Guns!
« Reply #22 on: October 11, 2005, 12:29:57 AM »
The second ammendmant was put in during a time when "arms" were muzzleloading flintlock weapons.  Not semi-automatics, and uzis and shotguns.  Seriously: We were better off then all guns were that simple. 
Quote from: David Holland
The Point of the Game is to be Playing it.

Quote from: Devern, The Unsung Hero
Actually, it pains me to say this, but Spiral is right.

Offline Rasmus

  • The Ratcatcher
  • Ancient
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 33046
  • Country: 00
  • Lost Roads are now found!
    • 40kOnline
  • Armies: Squats
Re: Guns!
« Reply #23 on: October 11, 2005, 02:38:54 AM »
I am on the "no-gun" side in this argument. I have had guns pointed at me, been shot at, and been shot into. I have never lifted a gun to fire at anyone ever, and I never will. I do not need them, and have resolved even the conflicts with gun-bearing assailants to my advantage. Not to say I would look forward to getting in that situation again, but then again, that's why I am not returning to the US.
Guns are a menace, and the attitude towards them in the US in particular is appalling. The attitude towards human lives in general is appalling, and needs to change. I think I would like to start with the guns though, as it would leave more people get their attitude adjusted than the other way around.

Lost Roads - finally released!


YouTube-clip of my Squat army.

Offline Sr. Commissar Gribb

  • Senior Commissar
  • Lazerous Penguin
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5854
  • Country: us
  • Whoa! What's this guy doing on here?
Re: Guns!
« Reply #24 on: October 11, 2005, 09:00:39 AM »
The second ammendmant was put in during a time when "arms" were muzzleloading flintlock weapons.  Not semi-automatics, and uzis and shotguns.  Seriously: We were better off then all guns were that simple. 

that's true execept the shotguns part- people have been using shotguns for hundreds of years.

The only problem with this argument is that at the time it applied to state-of-the-art military hardware. The purpose of the 2nd amendment is to protect ownership of military arms to protect against a tyrannical government or a conquering force. Hunting is not a protected right.

Quote
I'd never want my kid near a gun. A baseball bat? Sure. Or teach him martial arts.
It's your decision. Just know that when the time comes if you dont teach gun safety and he hurts himself, then it's your fault. You dont have to own or be near guns to know not to be careless around them.

Quote
The only reason that the founding fathers put that in the constitution was so that they could have a militia. Before that, no one really owned guns except trappers.


I dont know how realistic that is. People owned guns in north america and in england as part of their culture long before the founding fathers.

Quote
Do we have need of a militia now? No.
probably not- however the militia encludes the body of the people. The constitution has reserved the right of the fighting body of the people to own defensive weapons.

Quote
I am on the "no-gun" side in this argument. I have had guns pointed at me, been shot at, and been shot into.
My condolenses. I hope you were alright. It's always unfortunately to hear that guns have been used irresponsibly as it detracts from the rights of the rest of us. I know that in the US, the same laws in many states that restrict concealed handguns also restrict "less lethal" tools like martial arts weapons and pepper spray.

Quote
I have never lifted a gun to fire at anyone ever, and I never will.


I've never shot at anyone, even in my service overseas. I hope I never have to but I wont have my life or the lives of my friends and families harmed without a fight.

Quote
I do not need them, and have resolved even the conflicts with gun-bearing assailants to my advantage.


Quite impressive! I respect your dislike for firearms and I think you should respect my want to keep mine.

Quote
Guns are a menace, and the attitude towards them in the US in particular is appalling.

People who mishandle guns, deny the people modern effect means of self defense and commit criminal acts are a menace. Guns are tools- no more good or evil than the person that uses them.
 
"The Old Guard" of 40kO



The most dangerous thing on the battlefield is a junior officer with a compass and a map.

Offline Ollieb

  • Ancient
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4414
  • Country: 00
  • I'm only here for the beer!
Re: Guns!
« Reply #25 on: October 11, 2005, 09:07:24 AM »
Disagree that guns are a menace.  I have 4 pistols, 2 high powered rifles, 3 muzzleloaders and several shotguns in my home.  My son knows exactly where they are and where the ammunition is.  He has since he was around 8.  He has also fired each and every one of them (it was actually amusing at the time to watch a 9 year old fire a double barreled shotgun).  He also knows that as a child, should he ever fire a weapon at someone, what the ramifications for him for the rest of his life would be.  As long as they are handled responsibly guns are just as harmless as a stapler or thumbtack.    
Looking for a compliment here is like looking for a girlfriend in a cemetary.  You know you will probably not like what you dig up, but you'll take it anyway.
 

Offline Rasmus

  • The Ratcatcher
  • Ancient
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 33046
  • Country: 00
  • Lost Roads are now found!
    • 40kOnline
  • Armies: Squats
Re: Guns!
« Reply #26 on: October 11, 2005, 09:27:07 AM »
People who mishandle guns, deny the people modern effect means of self defense and commit criminal acts are a menace. Guns are tools- no more good or evil than the person that uses them.
   This is where the kick of the matter is. As a Swede I have no constitutional right to bear arms. If I really want I can get a gun, legally, and tote it around, say if I am going off hunting, or feel I truly need to protect myself. That is the only defendable way to secure rights to arms; by trial and authority. If you are just some punk who are likely to kill another punk and possibly others in the process you will be denied the right, whereas you, and upstanding citizen, will never be. If the system was enforced in the US, with a wide base of support, you would see a massive drop in gun-related crimes, and a change in attitude. Not right away, of course, but eventually. Then again, if you are comfortable with everyone being able to splatter your brain by accident, trying to kill another punk, then I am sure you would support this idea.
   Personally though - if I am going to get killed by any gun I want it to at least be intentional. 7 our of the twelve people I know who have been injured or killed by gunfire have been so accidentally. They were not even the target. Actually issuing permits and testing how suitable a person is as a gunowner beforehand would have saved at least those poor people. But I digress.

Lost Roads - finally released!


YouTube-clip of my Squat army.

Offline mrspungebob

  • Lazerous Penguin
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2062
Re: Guns!
« Reply #27 on: October 11, 2005, 10:26:37 AM »
Disagree that guns are a menace.  I have 4 pistols, 2 high powered rifles, 3 muzzleloaders and several shotguns in my home.

What do you need that many guns for? are you a collector? This is just asking, i'm not pointing fingers or anything, just curious.

I think there are 3 reasons for people owning guns. Feel free to add another reason if i've missed anything.

1. To hunt. A fair reason, but you have no need for a pistol, or automatic. And at least in Norway, you must get a hunters licence before owning a gun, which means you can't just go get a gun if you're really mad at someone.

2. Target practise. Another fair reason to use a gun. However, you don't need to have the gun at home, you'll be fully able to do what you bought the gun for if you have to leave the gun at the target-range-place. So thats no reason to keep it at home. Target practising at home have resulted in several deaths over the years due to people not hitting their targets.

3. To defend themselves. A rightful reason in theory, but won't actually improve your chances if you get robbed. If someone is robbbing your house with a gun, and you pull out your own gun, you are very likely to end up in a gunfight where someone is likely to end up dead. And unless you think there should be a death penalty for robbing, thats sure no reason to keep a gun. it makes your home unsafe.
« Last Edit: October 11, 2005, 10:28:14 AM by mrspungebob »
"Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups"

"You know, the most amazing thing happened to me tonight. I was coming here, on the way to the lecture, and i came through the parking lot. And you wont believe what happened! I saw a car with the license plate ARW 357! Can you imagine? Of all the license plates in the state, what was the chance that i would see that particular one tonight? Amazing!" - Quote from Richard Feynman (physicist)

Offline Full Metal Geneticist

  • Sir Quotesaplenty | No new bastardy suits.
  • Lazerous Penguin
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6113
  • Country: 00
  • Defender of the Text Wall
    • FMG's Angry Rantings
Re: Guns!
« Reply #28 on: October 11, 2005, 10:31:18 AM »
Also you are more likely to go kill your cat/child/better half if there is a gun around the house. Get a bloody burglar alarm. Burglar comes in trips alarm unless he is a ninja or some sort of master catburglar. The entire place wakes everyone up and the burglar has been discovered, so promptly buggers off cause everyone in the neighbour hood is up to see him unless he makes a quick getaway.

That way no one gets hurt and you are unlikely to bust a cap in your wife's ass.


It is pernicious nonsense that feeds into a rising wave of irrationality which threatens to overwhelm the hard-won gains of the Enlightenment and the scientific method. We risk as a society slipping back into a state of magical thinking when made-up science passes for rational discourse. I would compare it to witchcraft but honestly that's insulting to witches.

Offline Rasmus

  • The Ratcatcher
  • Ancient
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 33046
  • Country: 00
  • Lost Roads are now found!
    • 40kOnline
  • Armies: Squats
Re: Guns!
« Reply #29 on: October 11, 2005, 10:49:31 AM »
You should never have mentioned hte burglar. Now comes the onstorm of "oh no alarm wil lstop a burglar - but if I shoot him he'll learn his lesson allright!"-arguments. :)

Lost Roads - finally released!


YouTube-clip of my Squat army.

Offline Archonbjorn

  • Archon
  • Lazerous Penguin
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4753
  • Where's your emperor now?
    • Vengeance of the Fallen [Dutch]
Re: Guns!
« Reply #30 on: October 11, 2005, 11:05:21 AM »
Here's a thread you might find interesting, started back when I was new to the site Guns

Anyways, I'm for gun ownership.  Sure, you don't need them, but you don't need cigarettes, or alcohol, or many other things that call more people then guns do (at least in a domestic sense.  War is an entirely different matter).

Take away one thing, and there's suddenly an excuse to take away everything else.  I like my American Constitution the way it is, thank you.  The 2nd Amendment allows for U.S. citizens to rise up and overthrow a administration that doesn't support the constitution.  Without guns, there would have been no American Revolution, which maybe for you Brits would have been a good thing, but not in my opinion.  No, there is no need to argue this point, that would be off-topic.

Thats just alot of bullamphetamine parrot. Ppl can protest if they don't agree with it. The power lies with the majority of the ppl and NOT by gun control. Over here in Holland its strictly forbidden to have one and only the cops wear them. Why do you need a gun? I don't feel unsafe in my own house. I don't have to be afraid that the burglar is gonna kill me cuz he doesn't has a gun either. (But I have large kitchen knives and military combat knives (A). (the combat knives aint sharp tough but it should scareh im enough)

Anyway if something is wrong in your country then ppl need to unite simple as that. there are no gang wars here like in the USa and no reports of ppl that shoot their own family. (They need to stab them to death or choke them but thats like. . . 1 out of a billion) Guns aint neccesary to feel safe cause you know that other can get them 2.

I love Holland for its gun policy and I can't feel any safer then now.

Offline [dixon]

  • I pretend to be other users
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7191
  • BANNED
Re: Guns!
« Reply #31 on: October 11, 2005, 11:19:00 AM »
Thats just alot of bullamphetamine parrot.
If you don't agree with me, that's fine.  However, please make it a little more respectful.

Ppl can protest if they don't agree with it.

Again, let's go to my main point, guns being necessary to fight back against an oppressive government takeover.  Protest isn't going to do you any good against the types of government you need to worry about, such as an authoritarian fascist state.  If you read Sr. Commissar Gribb's link, you can see the necessity of it.
I have plenty of respect for civil disobedience.  It freed India and helped equalize civil rights here in the states.  Would you protest against a state that will simply kill you for protesting?  Perhaps initially, but it wont solve anything.

(But I have large kitchen knives and military combat knives (A). (the combat knives aint sharp tough but it should scareh im enough)
In skilled hands, both a firearm and a combat knife are very deadly weapons.  Why then are the combat knives not illegal?  There is no reason by your arguments for a person to own one.  Guns have uses other than killing people combat knives do not.  Sure, they could be used as a general purpose knife, but then not by one of those?

Anyway if something is wrong in your country then ppl need to unite simple as that.
Again, uniting isn't going to accomplish anything except in certain situations.  And in those situations, uniting and fighting back can accomplish what is neccessary.

I love Holland for its gun policy and I can't feel any safer then now.
Good for you.  At the end of the day, that is what matters.
I pretended to be other members, and finally got BANNED

Offline Ollieb

  • Ancient
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4414
  • Country: 00
  • I'm only here for the beer!
Re: Guns!
« Reply #32 on: October 11, 2005, 11:31:19 AM »
What do you need that many guns for? are you a collector? This is just asking, i'm not pointing fingers or anything, just curious.

I think there are 3 reasons for people owning guns. Feel free to add another reason if i've missed anything.

1. To hunt. A fair reason, but you have no need for a pistol, or automatic. And at least in Norway, you must get a hunters licence before owning a gun, which means you can't just go get a gun if you're really mad at someone.

2. Target practise. Another fair reason to use a gun. However, you don't need to have the gun at home, you'll be fully able to do what you bought the gun for if you have to leave the gun at the target-range-place. So thats no reason to keep it at home. Target practising at home have resulted in several deaths over the years due to people not hitting their targets.

3. To defend themselves. A rightful reason in theory, but won't actually improve your chances if you get robbed. If someone is robbbing your house with a gun, and you pull out your own gun, you are very likely to end up in a gunfight where someone is likely to end up dead. And unless you think there should be a death penalty for robbing, thats sure no reason to keep a gun. it makes your home unsafe.

Hunting and target practice.  I take a pistol with me when hunting if the game isn't killed with the rifle shot.  Pistol shot to the head doesn't run any meat and leaves the head intact for mounting.  Granted you can leave your guns at a target range, but the monthly storage fee isn't cost effective.  I do have three guns that to be honest have no purpose what-so-ever except to kill someone.  The reason I have them is I got a set (pistol, shotgun, and over-under rifle/shotgun) that are made in my hometown that all have the same serial number. 

People have also run over their kids in their driveways with their cars.  Does this mean we should be required to park in a consolidated lot away from home?
Looking for a compliment here is like looking for a girlfriend in a cemetary.  You know you will probably not like what you dig up, but you'll take it anyway.
 

Offline Full Metal Geneticist

  • Sir Quotesaplenty | No new bastardy suits.
  • Lazerous Penguin
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6113
  • Country: 00
  • Defender of the Text Wall
    • FMG's Angry Rantings
Re: Guns!
« Reply #33 on: October 11, 2005, 11:39:00 AM »
Comparing a car to a a gun is pointless. They serve two different purposes. The misuse of a car results in death. I practice archery, and i keep my bow at the archery range. Cause its dangerous. You can kill people with a ball point pen, you can't compare it to a gun.



It is pernicious nonsense that feeds into a rising wave of irrationality which threatens to overwhelm the hard-won gains of the Enlightenment and the scientific method. We risk as a society slipping back into a state of magical thinking when made-up science passes for rational discourse. I would compare it to witchcraft but honestly that's insulting to witches.

Offline mrspungebob

  • Lazerous Penguin
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2062
Re: Guns!
« Reply #34 on: October 11, 2005, 11:43:07 AM »

Again, uniting isn't going to accomplish anything except in certain situations.  And in those situations, uniting and fighting back can accomplish what is neccessary.

Unless you truly believe that USA is on the brink on armed revolution, what excactly is it you need to fight back against? If a country do get invaded, then there might be a reason for everyone to keep a gun, but last time i checked, the US army are quite able to fend of any threats to US land right now.

To Ollieb. Ok, i can see the point of a gun in hunting. Still, thats only for hunting purposes, and averyone should be forced to pass a hunters licence in order to buy any weapon for that reason. If a person do got a hunters licence, then i don't mind. Then he's probably not one of the guys who get a gun because their really pissed at someone.

People have also run over their kids in their driveways with their cars.  Does this mean we should be required to park in a consolidated lot away from home?

Yes, that means you should park your car a mile away from your house, it also means that drinking and smoking should be illigal, and that everyone should at all time wear full bodyarmour.

Accidents do happen, but if you compare the number of accidentally running over their kids to the number of gun-kills in the US, then the car-accidents are neglible. You do need your car at home, but you don't need your gun at home if you could have it were you used it.
"Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups"

"You know, the most amazing thing happened to me tonight. I was coming here, on the way to the lecture, and i came through the parking lot. And you wont believe what happened! I saw a car with the license plate ARW 357! Can you imagine? Of all the license plates in the state, what was the chance that i would see that particular one tonight? Amazing!" - Quote from Richard Feynman (physicist)

Offline Archon_Yggdrisil

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 2733
  • That....was METAL!
Re: Guns!
« Reply #35 on: October 11, 2005, 11:48:04 AM »
And it wouldn't be hard either, to set up a gun locker at the local shooting range. Something to consider writing about  ::)

 Life is not measured by the moments in which we breath. Life is measured by the moments that take our breath away. -Carlin

Offline Vic (the chick)

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 509
  • Please, call me Vic.
Re: Guns!
« Reply #36 on: October 11, 2005, 11:54:24 AM »
Cars were invented for getting from A to B quicker than walking.
An unfortunate side effect is that if you hit somebody on the way you might seriously injure them or kill them.
However, the benefits outweigh the risks....though because the risk is known a series of regulations and licences monitor their use.

Guns were invented for killing people.
A fortunate side effect of this is that you can also kill animals and paper targets with them.
The benefits DO NOT outweigh the risks. So the risks must be decreased by stringent use of licences and regulations...howev er they seem not to be in some countries.
I don't want to see science used to discredit religion, because that will make people live LESS happily,
and I don't want to see religion used to discredit science, because that will further delay the delivery of my flying car.
Howard Taylor, 2005

Offline Wurzelmaniac

  • MINF: Back on the Market
  • Ancient
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2888
  • Masculine In Sex
Re: Guns!
« Reply #37 on: October 11, 2005, 12:09:19 PM »
I don't mind guns for target shooting (hey, I like putting holes in paper targets too) or hunting (If you're going to eat what you shoot anyway) but self-defence?

Stupidest idea ever.

Guns are designed to kill. If I walk the streets with a gun in my pocket then I am saying that I am willing to kill someone. Quite frankly, I don't value whatever money I have on me (usually less than a tenner) and the effort it would take to cancel my bank card (5 minutes) enough to kill for them.

Knives I am less worried about. Why? Because I can run away, or in the last resort, fight back. I can never outrun a bullet.

Of course, the easiest thing to do is never to need either. But since that would require long-term action, no politician will ever do anything about it.
Quote from: Razyus
Quote from: Salami Tadico
I could do rules, but I really just want to spam Goatse and the like somewhere without restraint or fear of reprisal.
We get it. You've got issues.

Offline Ollieb

  • Ancient
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4414
  • Country: 00
  • I'm only here for the beer!
Re: Guns!
« Reply #38 on: October 11, 2005, 12:11:19 PM »
I have no problem with a waiting period and background check requirement for gun ownership.  I've never woke up in the morning and said I need a "Big Bertha Full Auto XL350 magnum" by nightfall.  I did fail to mention that all my guns do have trigger locks on them and the keys are stored in a different part of the house.  So even if someone did break in to my place I doubt I'd be able get to them.  There is a phone right next to the bed and I'd rather take my chances with calling 911 on speed dial rather than risk a gunfight.  

Bottom line is anything can kill anyone depending on how they are used.  Some items just make it a little easier to get the job done.


This thread isn't about whether or not there should be a license requirement or waiting period.  This one is about whether or not gun ownership should be allowed.  I have no reason to believe it shouldn't be.  Now should the US Government ever disallow gun ownership, I won't be happy about it, but I will turn mine in.
Looking for a compliment here is like looking for a girlfriend in a cemetary.  You know you will probably not like what you dig up, but you'll take it anyway.
 

Offline 0351

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 298
  • Country: us
  • Roll to your rifle and blow out your brains.
  • Armies: Imperial Guard
Re: Guns!
« Reply #39 on: October 11, 2005, 12:12:22 PM »
personally, I believe that all sane adults should be allowed to own a firearm if they choose to. everyone that purchases one should also be required to pass a common sense screening and a gun safety course. I can't blame a gun for killing someone anymore than I can blame a pencil for sloppy penmanship. there are bad people in this world that set out to do bad things to others, but that should not stop the levelheaded and upstanding members of society from exercising their rights. in 1992 my brother was murdered by 5 men when his house was burglarized. his roomate was attacked in the next room, giving my brother enough time to arm himself. he shot one of the burglars before they stabbed him to death. he would not have had enough time to call a police officer and sit around waiting for them to show up.He was not some uber skilled black belt 3rd degree badass. just an average american construction worker. he did the only thing he could have at that point. I fully intend to own a shotgun for home defense when I'm on my own, but like anyone with a mindset geared towards home defence, I'll own a burglar alarm as well. people should not have to die, but when it comes down to it, I'm not ashamed to say that my life is dearer to me than the life of someone meaning to do me serious harm. on another note, I do not believe that high capacity, automatic, or pistol type weapons should be owned by anyone other than the military or the police department. on top of that, any privately owned rifles should be a bolt action model. there is no need for anything more.
(\_/)
(O.0)
(  I  )This is inquisitor bunny.
How does plastic glue not turn into a solid mass in the plastic bottle?

 


Powered by EzPortal