Topic: Army Tips and Questions

[Foxfire]

Hi all.  So, I finally caved and bought the new Necron codex despite being...let's say displeased, with the changes I'd heard would be made to the fluff.  Bought the thing at my local gamestore yesterday after spending Saturday getting acquainted with 6th ed so I could help host the game with some friends, and I've been more or less pouring over it ever since.  I have only had one game with 6th ed. Necrons and that one--though ultimately victorious for my machines--was more or less just an early experiment to see how my standard units would perform in this new age of warfare.  Suffice it to say that Flayed Ones and Warriors were squishier than I'd anticipated, Destroyers were...different, and I think I like the new Canoptek Spyders.  Much to my surprise, Mindshackle Scarabs were a lot of fun and--had I remembered to use them at one critical point--may have won an important combat for me.  All in all, I'm excited, though a bit intimidated by the idea of dropping the money for all the new toys I know I'll want.

Which brings me to the point of the thread, which is to ask you guys what you think of my early army ideas and what pitfalls I'm likely to encounter from threats I may not have anticipated (still new to 6th and I don't know the meta well at all).  Open to any general advice also about how Necrons play these days.  Due to the way my group plays, it's a good idea to have a 1000, 1500, and 2000 point list already worked out prior to any 40K weekend, but after further analysis of the rules I've decided I should get to know the army a bit more before proposing bigger armies to 40kO for advice.


1000 pts
Destroyer Lord w/ Resurrection Orb, Sempiternal Weave
10 Immortals w/ Nightscythe
10 Immortals
5 Destroyers
Annihilation Barge
2 Canoptek Spyders

Basic strategy is to run the Lord with the Destroyers to keep them on the table as long as possible; probably out in front of them and using his high wounds and save to protect them from a lot of incoming fire, maybe using "Look out, Sir!" rolls if absolutely necessary to keep the Resurrection Orb in play as long as possible.  The Nightscythe struck me as a good way to mobilize one of my troops for an Objectives game and--if I understand the Flyer rules right--to give me some decent anti-air.  Annihilation Barge should also do alright provided most flyers don't have a front armor of higher than 12, though I don't know what the most common flyers are and so I'm sort of taking on faith that there aren't a lot of 13's around.  Spyders are just so that I have a way to react if melee threats approach my Immortal unit/s or corner my Destroyers.
Thought I'd prefer Warriors, but after looking more closely at Immortals I realized that their improved save would make them behave a lot more like the Warriors that I'm used to than the Warriors of today.

--> I realize that I massively edited this, but hopefully that won't be a problem since it hasn't been replied to yet.  I just decided I was getting ahead of myself and that I didn't know the codex well enough yet to really be making meaningful plans for big lists.

[syth773]

It seems pretty solid for the most part.  Personally I would go for 1 squad of immortals and 1 of warriors to free up a few extra points but that's personal preference.

The main weakness of destroyers is heavy weapons like lascannons, plasma guns, krak missiles etc.  the res orb definitely helps and you shouldn't be facing too many of those in a 1000 point game but if you opponent has some heavy firepower they could potentially shred that unit.  Are you sure you don't want an upgraded weapon on your destroyer lord?  a warscythe would allow him to take out weaker support squads and vehicles quite easily.

I think it's a decently solid army but I just feel like your destroyer lord is being wasted when he's just being used as a mobile res orb and potential meatshield for your destroyers (considering he costs almost the same number of points as them)

[Foxfire]

I see where you're coming from, and the same thought occurred to me.  Mostly I left him there because I couldn't see a better use for him than to help keep my fire support on the board, and with a 2+ save and independent character "Look Out, Sir!" rolls, he struck me as a good way to keep the squad in tact given 6th ed. casualty removal rules.

As for the warscythe, though, those come as standard issue with Destroyer Lords these days.

I could kit him out differently, though, if I were to abandon the defense of the Destroyers (dropping the Res Orb in favor of some other gear presumably).


Edit->Another thing I just considered is that with the new 'dex, Gauss Cannons have shorter range, so the Lord should have more opportunities to go to town with his Scythe if the situation calls for it.

[Baron Wastelands]

I don't use Destroyers, so I'm not the best person to advise on that, but I will say I never leave home with my necrons without 2 units of immortals, so I support that as your troops choice. I personally arm one with gauss blasters, and the other with tesla carbines, as both have their uses. People seem to use warriors with Ghost arks
The annihilation barge is heaps of fun. The spiders I have used to some extent; they are handy enough, and they boost scarab swarms, so as you go up points, if you are taking spiders I'd also take a swarm or two. Alternatively try wraiths, they are good reliable canoptek too.

As you go up in points, I can recommend a necron overlord (I use 1 in a command barge and 1 as a footslogging phaeron) if for no other reason that it opens up harbingers for you, which can add either punch or utility to other squads, depending on your preference.

[Foxfire]

Indeed.  Talking to you guys, I'm wondering if it wouldn't be prudent to drop my Destroyer Lord (since my current plan was just to utilize his mobility, save and res orb, without much consideration to his combat or anti-tank abilities) in exchange for a cheap Overlord (just a res orb) and two Harbingers of the Storm, whose Voltaic Staffs look pretty effective. 

This segues into my plan for a 1500 point list, which I'm admittedly a bit unsure about.  Having never played the codex before, I don't know how its strengths scale up, but my group plays 1500 points about as often as it plays 1000, so I'd like to have two lists ready.  So far for 1500 pts, assuming I want a beefed up version of my previous list instead of a completely re-imagined one, this is what I had in mind.

1500 pts
Overlord w/ Resurrection Orb, Gauntlet of Fire
10 Immortals w/ Nightscythe + Harbinger of the Storm
10 Immortals + Harbinger of the Storm
10 Immortals
2x4 Destroyers
Annihilation Barge
2 Canoptek Spyders
Monolith

Basic strategy here would be to use the Monolith to for its utility (especially in regards to getting my earthbound Immortals where they need to go).  The Overlord would probably be teamed up with the first or second unit of Immortals.  Everything else would play in much the same way, though the Spyders might be harder to maneuver since this list has more movement options for the Immortals.

Alternatively, I considered keeping my Destroyer number at 5, dropping the Gauntlet of Fire and taking a unit of 10 Flayed Ones since I have a lot of their models and enjoy the number of attacks they now have access to.  My main issue is that they aren't very survivable, I haven't found a special movement option yet (Deepstrike, Infiltrate, Outflank, or Monolith Portal) which allows them to charge immediately, and I feel like their main strength would lie in the surprise charge.  Given that Warriors and Immortals can rapid fire the turn they appear or teleport within 12', I'm having trouble justifying the Flayed Ones when I could take something else.

[Chuckles, The Space Marine Clown]

Christ where did you come back from?

[Foxfire]

Back from a bitter wasteland on the fringes of the realm of 40K, playing sporadically and in spurts too short to ever really get the feel for new rules.  I appeared randomly and briefly on the Ork forum through 5th ed, and really didn't like what I was hearing about the Necron codex when it came out, so I ignored it for quite a while.  While I've decided that Matthew Ward can't write for beans, I'm still more interested in Necrons than I have been in quite a while. 

[syth773]

I would really recommend finding a way to put a unit of scarabs in if you plan on taking 2 spyders.  You essentially get at least 2 extra scarabs free at the start of your first turn which you can add on to your existing swarm (sure it carries a minor risk of damaging a spyder but it really is worth it).  Scarabs themselves are quite useful.  Necrons don't really need any more anti-vehicle troops but they can be used to threaten vehicles that are hiding or a fast moving transport charging your lines.

Aside from taking out vehicles scarabs are an excellent tarpit.  use them to tie up elite close combat troops of the enemy (even if the scarabs die they usually delay the enmey for a turn or two which allows you to shoot up the rest of your opponents army and reposition).  Additionally you can use them to lock down long range fire support squads.

you also might consider switching out one unit of immortals for warriors and a ghost ark.  the ghost ark is really an awesome vehicle, it puts out as much firepower as a 10 man warrior squad and can split its fire between 2 targets.  If you put your warriors in it you have a 20 guass flayer gun boat that will rip up both infantry and vehicles easily.  it's also pretty damn tough for a transport.

[Foxfire]

I hear you, especially about the Spyders beefing up a Scarab unit, but I'm a little inflexible given what models I have.  Until I go to the trouble of converting my Warriors into Immortals, I can have one troop or the other, not both (as I will be proxying Warriors as Immortals and can't very well have two groups of the same thing representing different models...it always makes my games with the Orks so hectic that I avoid it whenever possible).  Even then the conversion I use requires Scarab models, which is just as well since I did a bad job with my Swarms years and years ago and would just as soon they were torn apart to fuel my conversion of Warriors to Immortals.  Speaking of, I don't suppose there's any way to purchase Scarabs outside of the standard Warrior boxes these days?

So I agree with everything you said, but I'm not sure I can really make it happen right now.  I'm hoping to buy a transport or two soon, though, so I will give more consideration to Ghost Arks as a way of making Warriors competitive with Immortals in my lists. 

[Foxfire]

So after a long while, I finally got a game in, but ended up running a different list after having a change of heart about the sort of army I want to run.

~My list~
Destroyer Lord with Weave and Res. Orb
10 Immortals with Gauss Blasters
10 Immortals with Tesla Carbines
5 Destroyers, who went around accompanied by the Lord
Monolith
Annihilation Barge

~His List~ (I don't know the details perfectly)
Librarian with an ability that allowed him to shoot often with low ap
A 9-man Tactical Squad without special weapons to which the Librarian was attached
5 Assault Marines w/ Power Fist
5 Terminators w/ Assault Cannon
10 man Tactical squad, divided into two teams, had a missile launcher, might have had a plasma gun as well
Land Raider, whichever variant has hurricane bolters and twin-linked Assault Cannons; hull-mounted Multi-melta

My opponent is pretty new to 40K, so I didn't take the result of the game to be terribly indicative of how my list will function at a higher level.  Our table was pretty claustrophobic (4x2 feet), and we deployed diagonally so there wasn't much for me to do but just set up in my tiny corner and wait for him.  Mini batrep, I kept my Gauss Immortals in reserve to give me some space in my deployment zone/maybe ensure the survival of my anti-Land Raider firepower and used the Monolith in combination with my Destroyers to remove most of his threats as they came down the pike.  The Annihilation Barge commanded a lot of my opponent's attention, and so I was able to use it to lure the Terminators out of center field, slowing them down behind the rest of the army and buying me time to eliminate everything else before having to deal with them.  Ended up losing a little under a third of my army, and that was because I consented to throw the Lord in with his remaining Terminators.  All in all, I lost the Annihilation Barge, the Lord, and about half the unit of Tesla Immortals.

Not the most telling contest given my opponent's inexperience, his (presumably?) subpar army list, and the unusually cramped game conditions, but I was curious about how easily this army of mine might be overrun by common CC threats, and also if my Destroyer-chaperone (Lord taking point with his superior armor save) wouldn't be outperformed by maybe an Overlord and some Crypteks.  Mostly I'm drawn to their Haywire weapon, since that would give my two troop choices additional anti-tank capabilities, but a lot of my points are tied up in the Destroyers and it's comfortable giving them added survivability.  Biggest thing that's bugging me right now is I really don't know what the common/nastiest threats from the other codices anymore.

[syth773]

Your list is decent.  I personally would run a different set up but that's personel preference.

honestly, unless you're up against an extremly vehicle heavy opponent, taking the voltaic staff really isn't neccessary.  Litterally every single model in your army is capable of damaging enemy vehicles (with the exception of your tesla immortals vrs heavier vehicles).  You would need to be in double tap range with your guass weapons to use the voltaic staff, and you should be able to easily shred any vehicle that close simply from overwhealming guass fire. (for example with 10 immortals you get 20 double tap shots.  On average about 13 should hit, out of that you should get roughly 2 6's.  Enough to take down light vehicles and If that doesn't do it shoot with another unit.

This is why I advocate taking a large squad of warriors specifically because when shooting at vehicles basic guass flayers can do just as good a job as Immortals with Guass blasters, you're also getting a lot more shots.  but again that's preference.

I would say that your biggest weakness is blitz armies that can get into close combat very quickly.  If they can reach your troops before you can rip them up at long range you could be in trouble.  Granted you could teleport your troops away from the enemy with your monolith leap frog style.  It really depends on your opponent.

The flip side is if you're playing an extremly long range army such as IG or tau.  Your army has a solid 24" range across the board.  If your oponent sets up far away from you it could be up to 2 turns (maybe even 3) before you get within range to shoot his vital units, during which time you can bet he'll be pounding your forces or trying to shoot down your vehicles.

This is why I advocate taking scarabs.  They are good at tying down both fast moving assault units as well as engaging ranged units and forcing them to either shoot the scarabs or get stuck in assault with them.  They can also be used to rip apart transports and other vehicles that try and rush your army (rhinos, chimeras, ork trucks etc).