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Offline The GrimSqueaker

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Aircraft Carriers
« on: March 13, 2013, 02:03:18 PM »
This was an interesting read:
At What Cost a Carrier? | Center for a New American Security

A short look at the costs and threats for contemporary carrier operations while asking the question whether carriers are increasingly becoming like the battleships in the 20th century, more irrelevant as time goes on. Now, the author isn't demanding that carriers all be decommissioned but instead asks whether we need to change how they're out fitted and how we use them.

Edit: With rebuttals linked to here and here.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2013, 02:22:19 PM by Rummy »
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Offline Boss Ard'Ragger

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Re: Aircraft Carriers
« Reply #1 on: March 13, 2013, 02:31:55 PM »
Rummy

Thank you for sharing this link it was very insightful regarding carrier operations.  A little scary to think that the modern carrier as it stands is so very vulnerable to current technology.  A good read hope others read and respond as well
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Offline The GrimSqueaker

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Re: Aircraft Carriers
« Reply #2 on: March 13, 2013, 03:43:31 PM »
A carrier isn't alone though as she does have her group around to support defensive operations. However, that's also a factor in the effectiveness angle where it may be better to just use the group itself as the main force arm without requiring the protective role. Way back in the days Red Storm Rising described attacks against carriers using the multi-axis flood the area with threats approach so it's not a new development but just one where technology has kept up with the pace.
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Offline Field Marshall Duke Umarth Morte

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Re: Aircraft Carriers
« Reply #3 on: March 14, 2013, 04:02:07 PM »
Another book to consider here would be Nimitz Class by Patrick Robinson. In it he describes how a diesel powered sub could take out a carrier with one shot........ It also says in the end that with the shift in style of warfare that maybe the carrier battle group has had it's day........
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Re: Aircraft Carriers
« Reply #4 on: March 14, 2013, 04:17:24 PM »
Fascinating read.  I haven't had a chance to read the rebuttal's yet, but the initial article was an interesting eye opener.  Especially the part about how many $11 million dollar missiles the Chinese can make compared to the $13 billion carriers.
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Offline The GrimSqueaker

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Re: Aircraft Carriers
« Reply #5 on: March 14, 2013, 04:29:53 PM »
Another book to consider here would be Nimitz Class by Patrick Robinson.

One of the follow up books, Kilo Class was a good read as well. All works of fiction of course but interesting in the situations they describe and the solutions presented.
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Offline Lonewolf

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Re: Aircraft Carriers
« Reply #6 on: March 15, 2013, 03:14:03 AM »
I agree, that the article is an intresting read. While not arguing against the authors conclusion, that carrier groups may have outlived their time, id like to mention though, that nations, whose military is technologically up to date, are most likely also in possession of nuclear weapons, or can produce them very fast, if the need arises. In other words, the very reason, why a war between two such nations is very unlikely can be summarized with MAD.

But i fully agree with the author, that carrier groups are no longer cost effective for todays military challenges. Modern armies drift more and more into "the less manpower, more high tech" direction, mostly because the precision, range and destructive potential of available weaponsystems has dramatically increased over the last century. Nowadays you don't even have to leave your office to operate a military drone on the other side of the planet.

In other words (and as every Civ I player nows), a large amount of troops contentrated in one area just makes a juicy target for todays weapons. This is the reason why modern military work in smaller, specialized, well equipped and supported units. If we transfer that view to the navy that would mean smaller, but a larger amount of highly mobile fleets. That way you could control larger areas for the same money. After all, you fight mostly pirates or countries who are far lower on the technological scale.

And if something big and nasty comes your way, you have the option to withdraw and meet up with other groups (because you are likely faster than the opposition) and/or launch  missile/drone strikes from the nearest capable military base.
« Last Edit: March 15, 2013, 03:18:31 AM by Lonewolf »


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Offline The GrimSqueaker

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Re: Aircraft Carriers
« Reply #7 on: March 20, 2013, 02:11:02 PM »
There are alternatives to a large carrier presence but they also have their own weaknesses along side. Linky.

As the article says, a carrier is an all eggs in one basket approach but it's also a rather robust and swift basket with quite the dangerous set of eggs within.
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