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Author Topic: Most Cheesy Army  (Read 911 times)

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Offline Orobos

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Re: Most Cheesy Army
« Reply #20 on: April 13, 2004, 01:55:00 AM »
GW really needs to revise there codex's.

Whoever wrote the eldar codex is a dumbass. Everything in eldar is weak besides Wraithlords, Fortune, and the Aspects. That basically means that every cheesy Eldar army is Biel-Tann, because every eldar player plays Biel-Tan.

If whoever wrote the Eldar codex actually wanted some balance, they would have made guardians like they used to be in 2nd Ed, made Wraithlords a bit more expensive, made Wraithguard, Jetbikes, Shining Spears, Rangers, Avatars, Shuriken Cannons and Scatterlasers cheaper or better, we would have a much better codex that is more balanced.

Really, I believe that every new army gets better and better, and therefore is called cheesy.

Also, I encounter people that should be slapped in the face for calling things cheesy... I was playing 40k in a Flash (500pts. downscaled) and played a Khorne army with a Daemonprince, Defiler, and two min squads of Zerkers, he called a necron army cheesy because it had 3 wraiths split up in squads of 1 each. Things like that ruin the game just because its rediculuos. Daemon Princes are great lords of war and huge battles and they somehow get assigned to a patrol? Same with Defilers....

One thing to make the game alot ALOT less cheesy is to put point restricions on HQs, Elites, Fast Attacks (maby, they are already weak as hell) and Heavys. This would make real, fluffy battles instead of who can buff the demon prince better.
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Offline Rolan Cehack

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Re: Most Cheesy Army
« Reply #21 on: April 13, 2004, 02:04:41 AM »
anyone playing Eldar should not have to worry about 3+ saves, nor should they complain about them (especially you Beil-tan players, Scorpians aren't 4+ saves you know)

Personally the Cheesiest army I've ever seen played is Slaneesh, there's just so little balance in that army, it's great at shooting, and even better at Assault, and god forbid you don't kill equal to their number of models...  Plus their Chaos number allows them to field fairly high number of troops in one squad without penalty, the tied highest actually.
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Offline Vice

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Re: Most Cheesy Army
« Reply #22 on: April 13, 2004, 02:23:35 AM »
Sorry orobos, I completely disagree. It is most certainly NOT biel tan being the only kraftworld.

Iyanden - An unstoppable block of T5 3+ save rerollables along with a 5++, and 3 wraithlords backing it up, that basically destroys anything in it's path. To top it off, it's all fluffy

Alaitoc - Disruption table, several units of 3s, pathfinders, and can stop virtually any enemy before they get to you that doesn't have a tank. Even then, just get a brightlance.

Ulthwe - Tooled up seer counsels and black guardians with heavy weapons

It's not all Biel Tan. Not in the least.
« Last Edit: April 13, 2004, 02:28:05 AM by Vice »
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Offline Orobos

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Re: Most Cheesy Army
« Reply #23 on: April 13, 2004, 02:33:44 AM »
Have you ever played against an Iyanden army before? It consists of about 20 models. If you have any heavy weapons in squads it should be easy as hell to take them out, it was for me. In 1850 you should easily have enough heavies to take out a Wraithlord per turn. Remember that thats the only long range firepower they really have unless they have a vehicle, which is underrated in 3rd ed. 1 shot has the chance of killing a vehicle.

Ulthwe, yeah, Seer Councils and heavy weapons. I see your point, but you can easily flank them and concentrated firepower will eventually kill Seer Councils. I wouldnt consider it cheesy seeing most everything in that army is guardians, which are weak.

I don't think Alaitoc is cheesy at all. Disruption annoys you, rangers annoy you. They really don't have any punch unless they don't pour many points into other things besides rangers.

To balance things out you have to play is 1850pt games. Anything under that then Wraithlords, Disruption tables and Fortune becomes cheesy. But at it its balanced.
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Offline Vice

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Re: Most Cheesy Army
« Reply #24 on: April 13, 2004, 03:03:14 AM »
No, I haven't played against Iyanden, but I've seen battles, and fought with them in a doubles tourny and it's a scary sight. Those 20 models have a ridiculously high T, rerollable INV saves if thier already awesome normal save fails, and 2 wraithlords backing it up. Unless I use howling banshees, which I hate, I just get ripped up.

The seer councils again have a rerollable save (4++ mind you), can rip through tanks, send out multiple flamers, and one hell of alot more. The guardians act as a perfect damage sponge, and you can still have a unit of aspects.

with alaitoc, it's not even as much the disruption chart, as what happens after it. Even assuming you don't get first turn, half of his force is pretty much garunteed to be pinned unless he is an AC or something. If you get first turn, you can pin down the rest of his units and make it even more annoying. Top that off with a vyper or two, and you've got all the AT you need.

Agreed on the 1850 thing though. Wouldn't say it's all balanced, but alot more than 1k. Unfortunately most 40k players prefer 1k just because it goes so much faster.
« Last Edit: April 13, 2004, 03:52:25 AM by Vice »
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Offline Orobos

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Re: Most Cheesy Army
« Reply #25 on: April 13, 2004, 03:19:12 AM »
Quote
Agreed on the 1850 thing though. Wouldn't say it's all balanced, but alot more than 1k. Unfortunately most 40k players prefer 1k just because it goes so much faster.

For me its better because the DPs/C'tan arn't as powerful
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Offline Colonel VonGruden

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Re: Most Cheesy Army
« Reply #26 on: April 13, 2004, 06:27:46 AM »
there really is no such thing as an army that is all together cheese. but there are armies that are easy to make into cheese than others. such as.

easier to make a cheesy BT army then a cheesy sallie army

Offline Grantah

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Re: Most Cheesy Army
« Reply #27 on: April 13, 2004, 07:10:26 AM »
Space Marines. End of story. I'm sure half the people on this message board would agree with me. How many chapters and variants do they have so far? More than I have fingers, that's how many.
Ok first things first.... [ edited for language ] Im tired of gamers coming on this site, and Eldaronline complaining about how many chapters, legions and variants there are too Space Marines. Just becuz theres alot of variety doesnt make the army cheesy. Sure there may be 100000 different types of space marines, however we can only field one kind and this does not make marines cheesey. Take a look at the codex and see how much marines get jipped, if you have trouble with marines dont cry cheese, try tactics. Any fool can roll a dice and say "my star cannon kills on a 2+ and negates ur armour save" Like Koonitz said try something else, and if something u believe something is cheesy cause it keeps kiking ur ass then change ur tactics.

I used to be a firm believer in Chaos being cheesy, but that was becuz i played annn EXTREMEMLY cheesy player. There is no cheesey armies just cheesey players. Right now im in the middle of a battle where a Guard player is pulverising my Templar with ordnance and making a mockery of my marines, do I cry "GUARD ARE CHEESE BAN THEIR ORDNANCE" ..... no you accept your lose, try and release your mistakes and develop new tactics so that you mite become a better gamer.

Now mods i suggust you lock this post b4 it gets outta hand.



Edited for inappropriate language.
« Last Edit: April 13, 2004, 07:11:59 AM by Rasmus »
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Offline Von Lazuli

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Re: Most Cheesy Army
« Reply #28 on: April 13, 2004, 07:39:10 AM »
I personally think that know army as a whole is Cheesy, it is just things in these armies are unbalanced in the overall scheme of things.
And then the reason people can an army cheesy is because people naturally overuse these units. As such people beleive the whole army to be cheesy.
Some of these units are:
Monoliths
Dark Reapers
Wraithlords
Death Company
Deamon Princes
The list goes on.
I am sure if you took one of each unit in two different armies, and matched them up, point for point each army would kill about the same amount. It is just the things that are most commonally overlooked in favour of the huge zappy guns that make the list balanced.

After several years of playing you will realise that it is much more fun if you biuld an army that will not nesserseraly wipe out the opponent to a man, but instead has more of a chance of losing, just to see if you can pull a win out if it.
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Offline Rasmus

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Re: Most Cheesy Army
« Reply #29 on: April 13, 2004, 07:44:09 AM »
I think that about sums it up.

Well spoken Von Lazuli!

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