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Author Topic: Traitor Legions! (and maybe Thousand Sons)  (Read 2370 times)

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Offline Lord of Winter and War

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Traitor Legions! (and maybe Thousand Sons)
« on: December 9, 2016, 02:21:08 PM »
So, there is all this fantastic talk going on about the Thousand sons, who have new miniatures and rules. I'm really excited about the other eight legions too!

If anyone plays any of the specific traitor legions, let us know what you're thinking of doing with your army!

I'm really excited about the Word Bearers. I have been thinking of starting a 30k Word Bearers army for a while, and this book might spring me into playing them in 40k too (instead of my Khorne Daemonkin)

I am really drawn to how the whole force has crusader (which is a very under rated rule), bonus range to their Dark Aspostles zealot USR, and an easier time summoning Daemons.

I'm probably going to base my army off the Betrayal at Calth box, as I can fit the whole thing in a Chaos Warband Detachment, to fulfil the Core requirements of their combined formation detachment. 

I also really like the Black Legion rules. Terminators as troops, could lead to a really cool elite chaos army, and with their combined detachment, you can start rolling for reserves turn 1. I like the idea of taking Abaddon and a cyclopean Cabal (all in terminator Armour) and then four more units of terminators and deepstriking turn 1!

What are other folks thoughts on the book?

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« Last Edit: December 9, 2016, 03:34:14 PM by Grand Master Lomandalis »
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Offline MagicJuggler

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Re: Traitor Legions! (and maybe Thousand Sons)
« Reply #1 on: December 9, 2016, 03:27:40 PM »
I'm pretty impressed to be honest. Even if the Legion detachments (except the Black Legion and Thousand Son ones) are mostly copy-pastes of the Black Crusade with one or two swaps, the bonuses are all nice, Legion Tactics are cool, and worst comes to worst, you can just run a vanilla army as Black Legion and you're still benefitting from free Veterans. Really, the only thing you lose access to by not running a Legion is Bela'kor or Huron...or Cypher I guess. Alas, nobody cares about Fabulous Bill.

Honestly, I think pretty much every Legion except Thousand Sons has something they can do with these rules, especially if you combine them with the older Dataslates. For now, I'm working on transitioning my previous army into a Word Bearers force, as I'm really digging their Warlord table. It feels...appropriate ly thematic, and easy to rationalize the fact the table is random by viewing the traits not as actual skills possessed by your Warlord, but prayers from the Chaos Gods themselves.

Plus it might give me reason to run a Defiler now and then, as with a Warpack, I can make it my Warlord...and since it's a Daemon, it could also summon stuff if I rolled for it to be a Psyker...

Offline Lord of Winter and War

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Re: Traitor Legions! (and maybe Thousand Sons)
« Reply #2 on: December 9, 2016, 10:39:38 PM »
A defiler warlord would be hilarious! I'm still looking through all the legion rules and I can't stop thinking of lists I'd like to run with each of them. I know for sure I want to play a legion, just need to settle on which one. I do think that Thousand Sons got the short end of the stick (rules-wise).
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Offline Aurics Pride

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Re: Traitor Legions! (and maybe Thousand Sons)
« Reply #3 on: December 10, 2016, 01:36:17 AM »
After seeing the rules for the Emperors children I am really thinking that I should add them to my new Slaanesh Daemons army, always loved noise marines and they are looking seriously awesome now. The only problem is I want the forgeworld ones and they really aren't cheap.... £90 for a 10 man squad is probably a bit much for me to justify when I've just bought a 1500pt army for that much! Haha
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Re: Traitor Legions! (and maybe Thousand Sons)
« Reply #4 on: December 10, 2016, 08:08:23 AM »
I'm SUPER stoked about the Legion book. I'm gonna play a World Eaters army for sure! I'm putting my Necrons on hold and dusting off that Bone (for shooty Marines) & Blood (for assault guys) Chaos Warband I started and dedicating them to Angron and Khorne!

The ones that really stood out to me are the Cult Legions... Death Guard, World Eaters, Emperor's Children and Thousand Sons. They to me seem the most obvious in power (I know their a number of people who don't count the the thousand sons in there, but its the combo with Daemons that seals it for me). But its that whole Veterans of the Long War/Fearless that finally boosts these guys up to where they need to be. Plus the Formations and artifacts are freaking nuts! The World Eaters Decurion is INSANE. I think there is some strong possibilities for Turn 1 charges with their pseudo-scout move and various movement and charge bonuses they get... Turn 2 at the VERY least.

I'm beyond stoked for the Chaos players and can't wait to at long last have my bad guy army for campaigns!

@Auric's Pride- YES! I want you to pick up those Emperor's Children!!!! I'm gonna post pics from the Emperor's Children commission I've been working on with the FW upgrade pack... at first I thought it wasn't worth it but it totally is! Just go slow pick up a couple units at a time. At least thats what I'd do. I just want to see you paint them up... plus they are so sick on the tabletop. I'd love to see your Ravenguard and Corsairs clash with them! Anyway I'll stop demanding you buy, paint and photo models as I seem to so often do  :P
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Offline MagicJuggler

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Re: Traitor Legions! (and maybe Thousand Sons)
« Reply #5 on: December 10, 2016, 10:10:32 AM »
Honestly, I feel most everyone except Thousand Sons (besides Magnus or Ahriman on a disc) got something to be happy about. Be it Emperor's Children with functional Noise Marines, super-fast World Eaters, etc. The Word Bearers Legion bonuses are meh, but they remain flexible with Marks, and they have a mix of awesome Warlord traits and a passable detachment.

Death Guard and Alpha Legion are definitely the stars though, the former due to their durability buffs, the latter due to their superior deployment and de-facto immunity to Slay the Warlord, and an artifact that's basically "Hit and Run, but better in every way."

Iron Warriors look promising too, and Night Lords have a fun Warlord table, though it looks like the Night Lords are going to be more about Bikes rather than Raptors, ironically. Black Legion also look flexible, either as a "rush" army, or a reserves alphastrike.

Honestly, it's going to be interesting to see what combos come from this.

Offline Aurics Pride

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Re: Traitor Legions! (and maybe Thousand Sons)
« Reply #6 on: December 11, 2016, 11:15:30 AM »
So while running over the last couple of days I have been listening to the "chapter tactics" podcast by frontline gaming and they have done a pretty comprehensive breakdown on the book from a competitive play viewpoint and they have some really interesting ideas.
The world eaters particularly actually look like they could compete in the tournament scene, some of the options really work well with a cyclopia cabal death star and the potential for Khorne lords is nasty. Death Guard have got to be one of my other favourites, just so much resilience! It's gonna be tough to kill Nurgle bikers taken from the detachment now, I think you could well see them making a return!
@Cav- there are a few things I want to add to the Daemons before I can justify buying any forgeworld Emperors children, I want to have a good sit down with the book and see how well they'll work as allies rather than as the primary detachment.
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Offline MagicJuggler

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Re: Traitor Legions! (and maybe Thousand Sons)
« Reply #7 on: December 18, 2016, 11:24:44 AM »
I got a game in with my updated Hexbringers list ( [1850] - Word Bearers - Hexbringers Post-Legion/WoM ) yesterday, and it was pretty entertaining.

I was up against a DE player with some unoptimized stuff, but it was still fairly reasonable.

He ran:
An Archon
3 units of Warriors in Raiders w/ Splinter Racks
2 units of Trueborn in Venoms
3 units of 3 Reavers, each w/ one Heat Lance & Cluster Caltrop
2 units of Scourges, one had 2 Heat Lances/Haywire Blasters, another had 2 Shredders
A Razorwing
A Voidraven w/ 2 Monoscythe Missiles
A Void Shield Generator.

For the mission, we rolled The Relic. The table is a giant "cityfight" board with lots of ruined terrain. This turned out to help me more than him.

For Psychic powers, my Sorcerer rolled Weapon Virus, Gift of the Leper, Incursion, and Summoning. My Herald rolled Possession (which I swapped for Summoning), and then I chose Prescience. One of my Horror units rolled Prismatic Ray, and the other rolled Doombolt. My Sorcerer rolled Nexus of the Gods, letting me adjust Chaos Boon rolls by +-1 for characters near my Warlord.

He kept the fliers in reserve, and AT Scourge unit in DS reserve. I kept the Doombolt Horrors and Terminators in DS reserve. I didn't have Brimstones so I didn't use Split rules.

This is my first time running the army in this form and fashion, so I made a few deployment mistakes. I put my Lord in the center of the action and my Sorcerer (my Warlord) on the flanks. This mostly meant that when rolling for 8-fold path, I didn't have characters in range to benefit from Nexus.

He got first turn, Nightfight, and all the works. He sends a Raider forward to attempt to get stuff in range for Splinter Rifles as well as to disembark stuff for the Relic. His shooting opened up with a single Hullpoint on my Helbrute and some dead Cultists. My Bikes and Spawn emerge unscathed.

My turn comes, and I roll Blood Rage for my Helbrute. I use 8-fold path on a Bike Champion to make him even harder to kill, and my Lord rolls for Scrolls of Magnus, getting Sunburst. I advance up the center of the board, summoning a unit of Flesh Hounds and a unit of Screamers, my Sorcerer taking a wound in the process due to Perils. The Screamers Sky-slash one of the Reaver Units, and move to the far side of the Void Shield, while the Hounds camp in some Ruins. My Helbrute charges the closeby raider, needing a 10 to make it. He fails the charge at first, then succeeds the second time around thanks to Fleet. He punches and explodes it, killing 7 of the passengers in the process!

The next turn comes and he passes all of his reserves. His Razorwing comes in on one flank, his Voidraven on another. The Razorwing did a HP on one of my Rhinos, the Voidraven kills a Screamer with its Implosion Mine, and 10 of the Cultists guarding my Sorcerer with Monoscythes. Venom-fire proceeds to do another wound on my Sorcerer from failing Look out Sir, and 2 wounds on my Lord from failing it. His Shredder Scourges did some serious damage to my Hounds, Splinter Rifles from another Raider killed my Screamers, his AT scourges killed one Helbrute, Reavers killed the other one, and a multi-charge by more Reavers and Scourges finished off my Flesh Hounds. We made a mistake at this point, and forgot the FAQ said you can no longer consolidate after Assaulting a Walker (which to be fair is kind of a dumb ruling), so I recommended that he try to consolidate back towards his VSG bubble because things were about to get nasty.

And nasty they did. My turn comes, and the Horrors failed to arrive from Reserve, but my Terminators did...right into the center of his Void Shield setup where they can start shooting stuff from inside. I used Eight-Fold Path on my Sorcerer, who rolls multiple boons for his armor save and Strength to his Bolt Pistol (whee). My Lord rolls Inferno for his next power. One of my Marine units disembarks to provide emergency bodyguards for my Sorcerer, while my Spawn barrel forward to provide a backup guard for my Lord. The Bikes start crashing through the ruins, taking dangerous terrain checks. My earlier Biker champ rolled a 1 and failed his save, so that extra wound he got saved his bacon.

It's then that I get my Lord right in the center of all the Reavers and Scourges that rushed forward to kill my Flesh Hounds, and I get Sunburst off. Sunburst proceeds to kill off two Reaver Jetbike units, the Shredder Scourges, a DE Sybarite, half the AT scourge unit, AND do a HP of damage to the Razorwing(!) This left me rolling for Champion of Chaos 4 times, and each time I roll, I roll twice and get to choose the results I want.

Ultimately, my Lord got all his HP back, got a 2+ rerollable armor save, and +1 Toughness just to make things even more unfair. It's at this point we call it, as I still had 10 Warp Charge left for powers, and hadn't even summoned anything yet.

It was fun. :>

Edited to remove excessive rules description and explanation in accordance with forum rule 1 - Iris
« Last Edit: December 18, 2016, 11:45:20 AM by Irisado »

Offline Lord of Winter and War

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Re: Traitor Legions! (and maybe Thousand Sons)
« Reply #8 on: December 22, 2016, 09:10:55 AM »
That sounds like an awesome game! The eightfold path is such a fun command benefit for that formation, I love it. Also, the Word Bearers bonuses are subtle, but amazing. That Dark Eldar army didn't seem too soft either, so well played!

What do you think you'd change in the future?

I had my first game with the Traitor Legions book last night, It's going to be one of the next Skaredcast battle reports, so I wont spoil how the game ended.

I used the Black Legion speatip formation, with a Black Legion Warband, Cult of destruction Auxillery Juggerlord and unit of two spawn.

Played against Black Templar.

Deepstriking turn 1, is pretty sweet. Holy smokes I love it so much. I really want to build up a raptor talon to take advantage of that.

Also, having hatred every turn in melee against armies of the imperium is so beslubbering good.

The other benefits I had, where just icing on the cake (free Votlw, Crusader, Fear, and Lust for Glory were all nice to have). I look forward to shuffling the list around, but I like being able to play pure CSM and actually have some play.
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Offline MagicJuggler

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Re: Traitor Legions! (and maybe Thousand Sons)
« Reply #9 on: December 22, 2016, 09:47:50 AM »
Honestly, I'm pretty happy with the list. The only thing I plan to do is swap the Dirge Casters on my Rhinos with Dozer Blades, as Horrors/summons let me eat Overwatch, but very few things let me ignore Dangerous Terrain.

Most the things I would have done differently are play-related. The main things would be keeping the Horror unit I had on the table spread out in a skirmish line, so I could grant cover to my Cultists, so I could grant cover to my Helcult brute. I would play a slightly more conservative game until my DS reserves arrived, moving the Screamers behind my lines so I could get a mobile escort for my Herald, etc. Oh, and summon Daemonettes instead of Hounds!

Other than that though, glue pennies to my models so wobbly model syndrome isn't as much of a hassle, and practice speed-moving lots of models.

While my opponent's list wasn't a complete pushover, I feel he made several mistakes, both with list-building (Splinter Cannon Trueborn in Venoms, etc) and in-game (said Trueborn could easily have deployed on foot while their passenger moved to enfilade me, etc). More than anything, I think his big mistake was underestimating the Scrolls of Magnus (and to be fair, a few spectators were like "wait, he took the Scrolls of Magnus?") I lucked out in rolling the exact Psychic power I needed to do horrid damage to his army, but it could easily have gone the other way.
« Last Edit: December 22, 2016, 03:23:56 PM by MagicJuggler »

 


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