Topic: Wraithstar + Falcon Pods 1500p for Phoenix Lord competition.

[Fenris]

OK, here is a first draft:

CAD
HQ
220 Asurmen (Warlord)
195 Eldrad
TROOPS
75 5x Dire Avengers
-Exarch.
75 5x Dire Avengers
-Exarch.
ELITE
300 10x Wraithblades
-Ghostaxe & Forceshield.
120 5x Fire Dragons
-Exarch, Dragons breath flamer.
HEAVY
510 3x Falcon
-3x Eldar missile launchers, 3x Holofields, 3x Vectored engines.
1495p

The general idea is to have Asurmen and Eldrad join the wraithblades, the Avengers and Dragons will embark in the falcons and arrive by deep strike.

Asurmen will aim for fate's messenger, as it will make him even better at tanking shots. He will also benefit from the wraiths higher toughness most of the time, while being an EW.

Eldrad will try to increase the survivability of the Wraithstar bu rolling for either invisibility, fortune or sanctuary, if he fails he can deploy inside a falcon.

Falcons have EML to fire at air targets but are not waisted against light to medium tanks or pummeling hordes with plasma, their vectored engines will be used to allow the falcons to spin around and not show their rear, after passengers have been dropped off.

Dragons and Avengers will be used to have the dragons to pop a transport then the avengers shoot the passengers. The DBF is for discourage from assaults on the dragons, but could also prove handy against open-topped transports.

Strengths:
Slay the warlord, first blood and kill points will bee almost impossible to win by against this list.

Weaknesses:
Few units means few objectives to be taken. Wraithstar may be ignored or kited in which case the IC's will have to split off. Hordes could potentially swarm this army, but at this points level, horde sizes are limited.

[dog_of_war]

By the title of the army list and how you have listed your falcons, that you are taking advantage of the cloudstrike formation to deep strike the squadron.

My only concern would be that your three falcons could only target a single unit and must move in formation. In addition; the two avenger squads and fire dragons would have to move around the board together unless you disembarked them immediately after deepstriking and the odds of all three units deepstriking in a single place that you wanted is highly unlikely. I can see you deepstrike, disembark one unit, then next turn move to the next location and disembark the second unit, and so on. I by no means feel that it is unplayable, it just looks like it would be really tricky to get any of your obsec units in the right place at the right time, especially if you are playing maelstorm. I actually think the list would play better using three individual falcons starting on the board turn 1. By deepstriking all the falcons you also only leave one unit on the board (although a very durable one) risking being tabled early on, especially if your falcons don't come in right away.

[Fenris]

Yes the Falcons will deepstrike like a squadron, and I expect casualties, so there won't be 3 falcons for very long.
There is no option for deepstriking the falcons separately, the Avengers and Dragons will disembark immediately after deep striking, the Dragons may destroy 1 transport, and one unit of avengers can shoot the surviving passengers, while the falcons destroys another transport allowing the second unit of avengers to shoot those passengers. Finally the falcons turn around possibly protecting eachothers rear.

Much relies on the single Wraihtstar surviving 1, 2 or even 3 turns of shooting.
(But with a good save, invulnerable saves, high toughness, and EW with a 60% chance to re-rolling 1's and a 66% chance for either invisibility, fortune or sanctuary they should be tough to take out. With Fate's messenger and invisibility it will take 1296 bolter shots to even get one wound. Even without either one It'll take 54 shots)
In CC they should be able to hold up even longer, but using it as the only unit on the table should somewhat taunt the opponent to move within weapons range, making the gap shorter for the Wraithstar to assault something.
It will likely also pull apart the opponents army so the falcons can isolate a portion of the opponents army.

Edited for excessive stats in accordance with forum rule 1 - Iris.

[Lyonic]

With respect ser, this list will get alpha'd of the table turn one.

This is assuming that you are sticking in the avengers and dragons in the Falcons... (with no Autarch it could be funny).

Here's the truth about wraithblades... They suck. You have to give them waaay more than just Eldrad to make them survivable. Sure you might get lucky and roll Invis... but if you don't... there is nothing to fall back on..

Sanctuary is over-rated imo, aslong as you have an invul or FNP, Fortune will always be better. My experience with wraith units is that, without some form of delivery method or something shinny to distract the fire of the enemy; they will get whittled down before they make contact.

I play Eldrad, Skyrunner Seer, and a spiritseer and have rolled on Tele with all of them and not gotten invis. It's a really, really, really bitter pill when you use 3 psycher's and you are using one. And you say if you don't get invisibility you would start eldrad in a falcon?


Wraithguard are far too expensive to be used at this point level with 2 200ish point hq's. Heck you could switch out 3 falcons and give yourself 3 waveserpents... Atleast then your dudes would have a chance at making it no-mans land.

[volatilegaz]

Have to say I'm not too keen on this one either, TBH.

It's not jut that the wraithstar unit has to survive for 1-3 units, it's also that  you damage output for these same turns will be limited to Asurmen's catapults and whatever witchfire powers come Eldrad's way. A single unit of infantry on the table without fleet or matchless agility is just too easy to kite. You might be lucky and get falcon's swiftness as one of your traits but even then.

And then once they falcons do arrive, those MSU avengers aren't going to kill a unit each on the turn they arrive, and are ripe for 1st blood reprisals.

I also don't see what Eldrad is giving you that's worth the points. The scout move is useful, but I'd rather have an Autarch to get your falcons in play quicker.

[Fenris]

@Lyonic:
Wraithblades main function is to be cannonfodder, they are the best suited unit for this task, in the codex.
How does that mean they suck when their sole purpose is to stay alive?
I'd like to know with what you can kill Asurmen + Eldrad + 10 Wraithblades with forceshields in one turn, statistically, even without fate's messenger and any of Eldrads psychic support.
43 scatterbikes could do it, but if I'm facing something like that, I might just deploy the falcons on the table.

Sanctuary may not be the best power to keep them alive, invisibility is the best, then fortune, however if Asurmen has already rolled Fate's messenger, fortune won't be that useful.
The probability of getting neither is 13% if you roll a '2' on Asurmens number of warlord traits.

@Volatilegaz:
If someone is kiting the wraithstar they are not doing any serious damage, since that is the only unit on the table.
Those MSU avengers won't be first blood unless they all fail to kill something including the falcons, sure they may be an easy killpoint from approximately turn 3 on, but 18" + D6 + casualties should keep them at a decent distance.

You might have a point with Eldrad though, but with a psykerless list I feel I'm wasting D6 WCD each turn.
With a normal seer I would have some extrapoints to spend on...what? That does not give away first blood and an extra killpoint?

[Lyonic]

The problem is there is so much AP2-3 firepower around, including template weapons, that you will be relying on a dire avenger armour invul save. It's not enough. Wraithblades are not Cannonfodder. Ever. They are meant to be a CQC unit that brings AP2-3 to the field with higher strength, that can survive using their invul against other ap2-3 units in cqc with the fearless. If you want cannon fodder grab a 20 man guardian squad with a warlocks conceal and make them goto ground. They will do a lot better.

[volatilegaz]

You only need to stay 24" away to kite this unit. There are a lot of armies out there that can do a lot of damage from 24" away. But let's say it does survive the game relatively unmolested, what is it actually going to do?

I take your point about 1st blood. Critique withdrawn.

I just don't see the winning tactic here.
-How are you going to contest objectives in maelstrom?
-Your anti-infantry consists of 11 DA (but only after they've arrived from reserves, and only disembarking as & when you're confident of getting 1st blood), a charge from the wraithstar (if you get more than 2 rounds of combat out of this unit all game, I would be surprised), and 3 EMLs (but only after they've arrived, and only if they are not needed for anti air or anti tank)
-Your anti-tank isn't much better -no S6 at all, so 1 squad of fire dragons and 3 EMLs, again only after they arrive

And the reason you don't have a lot of anti-anything potential is because you have about half your points invested in a unit that I very good at surviving, but rubbish at hurting anything. Or scoring objectives. And the other half of your army is likely off the table for 1/3 of the game.

An Autarch would definitely be a useful addition if you loose eldrad. You'd need some more troops, with scatter bikes being an obvious choice there.

[Lyonic]

Personally, i feel if u want to take wraith blades, you have to take a big footdar list. Last time i used them i had a wraithknight, wraithlord, 10 blades +eldrad, spirittseer and farseer skyrunner. 2 units of 5 scan on guard and the rest tax units.

I think blades are good when they arnt the only thing on the board. As said earlier they will just get kited.

[haunt]

Do remember, IF you're kiting something. It means you're moving away from the objective, which is not the wisest of the choices to do against a list that you want to kill everything else just leave the star alone. 

[davethemadorc]

 i suppose it depends on anticipated opponents - but a decent DE army would rip you to shreds.

and agree a cheaptarch is critical for reserve bonus

[Fenris]

@Lyonic:
Let's have a look at 20 guardians with warlock comparred to Wraithblades:
It would take 94.5 bolter shots to kill those guardians (including the warlock) when concealed and gone to ground, where it would take 135 bolter shots to down wraithblades.
The point cost is of course in favor for the guardians, so let's include that by multiplying those shots with the other units point cost and we get 28350 for the guardians and 29025 for the wraithblades, which makes the wraithblades more durable against bolter fire per point.
The forceshields of the wraithblades are also quite useful against AP2-3 weapons.

@volatilegaz:
If the wraithblades march up to the middle of the table a 24" radius covers quite a large portion of a standard 4x6 feet table. Most armies would have to split up their forces into the corners, in which case the falcons can just pick them out piecemeal.

Objectives in maelstrom will be troublesome I admit that, however I would have to focus on not letting my opponent get too many of them.

I don't think the Wraithblades will get into CC unless it's against horde armies like orks and nids.
They are not supposed to deal damage, they are supposed to draw fire and still survive.

You are forgetting the pulse lasers on the falcons 9S8 shots should be able to down any light or medium tank. For the heavy tanks there are fire dragons.

The anti-horde capabilities are low I admit that, however if the Wraithstar don't get locked up it will probably mow through a couple of horde units. Also just because the falcons MAY deep strike they don't have to do that, against hordes they can just deploy as normal on the table.

@Others:
I don't feel the reserve bonus of the autarch is that crucial, it will be 2 dice rolls that are affected.
I'd have to either drop my only psyker or get a second detachment with 102p+ troop tax to fit the Autarch. It would mess with up the idea of having no easy to kill targets.

The DE would rip apart any wraithlist, however DE will have trouble destroying the falcons.

[Hannibal.Lictor]

I have tried making a wraithstar out of blades....for a long time. The best I could do was with a Shadow council and pray for gate. They are no where near what they appear as on paper sadly.