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The Armies of 40k => Space Marines => Topic started by: Colonel-Commissar Ghostmaker on February 1, 2003, 03:05:17 PM

Title: Which Chapter Should I Choose?
Post by: Colonel-Commissar Ghostmaker on February 1, 2003, 03:05:17 PM
Ranger of Alaitoc:

I think we needed a post where newbies can learn about the differences in tactics between chapters.  However, I think it best if it is composed by YOU the forum members.  I am unlocking this thread, but only for comments on what to add to this original post, any arguments will be deleted and may have consequences so mind your manners!

Blood Angels: are an excellent assault chapter with many special squad options and some powerful special rules.  When in the right conditions  they can reach combat in the first turn.

Ultramarines: There in nothing as nasty when you use Deathwatch kill team against Niids or Orks.  They also Have the niid Hunters.

Black Templars are an excellent assualt chapter, with special squad options and special rules.

White Scars and Ravenwing are both very fast chapters as they both use a lot of bikes.

Dark Angels: Like the idea of Tactical Marines holding their ground instead of running like cowards? Like the idea of Plasma Cannons in Tactical Squads? Prefer Shooting to moving and assaulting? Want your Marine sergeants to have dresses? Dark Angels are the chapter for you.

Reason #1, Dark Angels can lay down a torrent of fire, and plasma cannons in a Tactical Squad really show those Chaos scum who is boss.

Reason #2 Dark Angels hardly ever fall back, and some units never do. For X number of points you can make your Tactical Squads Stubborn. But you don't want to pay for it? Never mind, if you fail a 25% break check, it happens anyway (limited time only, terms and conditions apply).

Reason #3, want to field a supreme grand pan Terminator Force? Codex Dark Angels allows you to do just that. Or perhaps Biking is your thing? Never fear, with a  Ravenwing company, you can do that too.

Reason #4, Dark Angels have one of the best history's in my opinion. Like the idea of chasing your own chapter round the galaxy? Feel you need to atone for playing CSM? Dark Angels fluff is just for you.

So, to conclude. Dark Angels can do anything a vanilla army can do (I made them out to be very shotoy, tho they are not, and any servant of the Emperor is to be feared in hand to hand. However, if your tendancy is to rip people's bleeding hearts out, then there are chapters who can do that better, but alas, do not wear dresses.) With some very useful wargear items, Terminator Honours already added to a Hero's profile, and the most feared Terminators in the Universe to back them up, Dark Angels can hold their own in close combat too. However, I think they are best played as a static force which shoots their opponents to death

Deathwing: are a company made entirely of terminators and dreadnoughts.  They can do what ever you want them too really, but are better in combat then shooting.  You will be severly outnumbered in every battle and they are a difficult army to get to grips with.  But if you value a heroic battle than Deathwing are very appealing.  But remember even in 2000 points you'll probably still have only about 25 models.  However, they have a very appealing paint scheme and the lack of models allows for less time required for modeling and painting.  But you will usually find yourself shorthanded in combat, and you can't just throw away any of your units, they are all way too valuable to lose.  Also with so few models, if your army is not painted up to standards you will really look bad, as you had far less models to paint than the other players.

Salamanders Do you want to field frightening number of Terminators, but don´t like the pasty-white amrour of the Deathwing? Want to roast and toast your way around the battlefield with a plethora of flamers? Want to have Space Marines so slow that they strike simultaneously with Guardsmen? Then look no further than the Salamanders!  Sallie termies are quite a bit cheaper than other chapters, meaning you get to field more of these awesome warriors. And master crafted weapons are cheaper too, so theres no reason not to hand them out to all your characters.  Sallie Tactical squads can get twice as many flamers as vanilla tactical squads. Plus you can use that long-range melta of doom, the Multi Melta in your squads.  The major con to Sallies is that there Initiative is lower than other Chapters, meaning that they are less effective in CC.  Due to their slow wits in CC, theres all the more reason to shoot your opponent to smithereens. All Sallie characters can get a Signum, meaning that your fire will be much more accurate. And to top it off, Sallie players can even prolong the game, due to a special rule.

Your Chaplain is awesome. Always take one, atleast. Thunder Hammer, Mantle, all the goodies. A properly kitted Chaplain gives you a good hero to plug up any holes.  Thanks to the new assault rules, your veteren sarges become infinitely more useful. Be fluffy and give your vet sarges in basic tac squads Thunder Hammers, storm sheilds if you can afford it. I can assure your, proper Vet Sarges are the difference between a newb army and a force to be reckoned with. As a Salamander, you get much better sarges cheaper (MC weapons cost less and whatnot.) Look under the general section at the heroics thread for a sample.  Your devestators are the most effective of any SM army. A vet sarge with a signum is another requirement, as it gives you the heavy firepower otherwise lacking. I use 4 ML's myself since it is cheap, but if you have the points in cash, you may want to invent in Plasma Cannons or Lascannons.  Your Tactical squads are the back bone of your army, never forget this. 2 flamers a peice makes any enemy nervous to get close, as a miscalculation equals a toasted assault group.

Space Wolves: Do you like cute little puppies?  Then the Space Wolves is your chapter!  Great CC abilities, combined with above average shooting gives these puppies a very fierce bite.
1. Shooting: Have you ever said to yourself "I wish my heavy weapons squad could shoot more than one tank a turn!"?  Well then, the Long Fangs, the SW devastators, are perfect for you.  With an ability allowing them to shoot multiple units under certain circumstances.  They also have the option of taking the Leman Russ Exterminator, a tank exclusively for the SW, which is great at mowing down 4+ save enemies.  Other than this, they don't have a ton of other great shooting things other than basic bolters, which is their only true con in my eyes.
2. Terminators: Tired of being told what your terminators have in terms of weapons with little or no choice, and very little variation within the unit?  Wolf Guard are the answer.  Although they can only be used in the place of Vet. Sarges or bodyguard retinues, they have full access to the SW armoury, comboed with very, very cheap terminator armor, combined with the fact that every terminator can be configured differently with almost any combination of weapons, they make a very strong force.
3. Close Combat: Have you ever said, "Only one attack for charging?  What is up with that!"?  Blood Claws get more than just one attack when they charge, and they are very nice in their ability to take up to four power weapons/fists in a full unit with a wolf guard.  Grey hunters combine bolter fire with the True Grit ability to provide not only a fairly decent fire base, but also decent close combat ability.
4. Stealth: Space Wolf scouts are, in my opinion, the best in the game.  This stems from the fact that they can use SW scout weapons, or norm SM weapons.  Also, with their Behind Enemy Lines special rule, it is possible for these guys to just hide out and then appear behind the enemy to wreak havoc on rear armor tanks

Raven Gaurd: They're good, but are a hard chapter to use. You need a keen eye for weaknesses and a good idea for what your units can do. Your armylist must be tuned the right way. So why are they deadly?:

Raven Gaurd have high mobility, with abillity to deep strike accurate and with the help of scouts they can also deep strike fast. You can deep strike a lot for less, thus you get the capability to put units where you need them. You even have an alternate option for your command squad to wear lightning claws and jump packs, thus enabeling them to hit fast and hard.

Also they have some grudges against some Chaos, leveling your chances against these spawns of evil.

Lastly they have a small drawback. Full out devestation, holding the hill while shooting and these kinds of actions are a lot harder with Raven Gaurd. Because they are so specialized in what they do, their Heavy Support is limited.

So if you choose this chapter, you need patience and a keen eye. Practice until you have it, and then you are very hard to defeat.

Normal (codex) marines:, can adopt either assult or shooty.


Credits: Ranger of Alaitoc, Farseer Questel, Terradax, Sheepz Eat Exarchs, Erenthal, Samdan, Valkor, Anderz, M. G. Smurf

Here are the 'Whats the best chapter?' threads Commisar Ghostmaker has dug up from the archives.

http://www.40konline.com/index.php?topic=25830

http://www.40konline.com/index.php?topic=24989

http://www.40konline.com/index.php?topic=22591
(This ones been locked BTW)

http://www.40konline.com/index.php?topic=22450

http://www.40konline.com/index.php?topic=19756

http://www.40konline.com/index.php?topic=18716

Also, FearTheReaver has found a great resource for icons and Chapter info:

Check out this large list of Chapters I found online. Might give you some ideas.

Chapter Iconography and List (http://www.ironhands.com/chapters.htm)

Title: Re:Best chapter/army threads so no 1 does NEmore of them
Post by: Dangonblane on February 2, 2003, 05:43:40 PM
make a long list of summaries and such of the chapters that everyone agrees on and make THAT sticky.

Two slight things regarding this:

1)  Not everyone will agree - god knows we don't on this board already!  Plus it gives newbies the chance to see how some of the threads on this board have developed.

2) Summaries of the Chapters will appear on the 40k.ca website when it (finally) goes up.  I've seen some of them and thier okay.


NOTE TO ALL:
This thread is locked to stop arguments starting.  If you really think you have something of importance to add to (i.e. another link) please message me wih it.

-Dangonblane
Title: Re: Starting Space Marines? You'll want to read this!
Post by: Ranger Astheria on November 15, 2003, 05:01:49 PM
I've reopened the thread as mentioned above but be warned.  There will be consequences if you spam, repeat information, or begin to argue, so mind your manners!
Title: Re: Which Chapter Should I Choose?
Post by: Terradax on November 20, 2003, 10:09:17 AM
well, i'm a blood angels player, and i can say (so can my opponents), that blood angels are one of the most feared c.c army! if you play them right, you can get into close combat in the first round. read more about tactics on www12.brinkster.com/terradax
and please, sign the guestbook.
Title: Re: Which Chapter Should I Choose?
Post by: Ranger Astheria on November 21, 2003, 07:35:44 AM
Hmm, not to be mean or anything or single you out.  But that's kinda the example that I wasn't looking for.  If you look in the first post you'll notice small things about each army, notably the Deathwing one.  If you play Blood Angels why not write a little blurb like that?

I guess I wasn't clear enough in the beginning though.  DO NOT say that your army is the best!

However Terradax, you did post a sentence that is useful, but let's see some more.
Title: Re: Which Chapter Should I Choose?
Post by: Sheepz on November 24, 2003, 03:43:27 PM
I am shocked Dark Angels have not been brought up.


Like the idea of Tactical Marines holding their ground instead of running like cowards? Like the idea of Plasma Cannons in Tactical Squads? Prefer Shooting to moving and assaulting? Want your Marine sergeants to have dresses? Dark Angels are the chapter for you.

1) Shooty.

Dark Angels can lay down a torrent of fire, and plasma cannons in a Tactical Squad really show those Chaos scum who is boss.

2) Stubborn

Dark Angels hardly ever fall back, and some units never do. For X number of points you can make your Tactical Squads Stubborn. But you don't want to pay of it? Never mind, if you fail a 25% break check, it happens anyway (limited time only, terms and conditions apply).

3) Offshoots.

Want to field a supreme grand pan Terminator Force? Codex Dark Angels allows you to do just that. Or perhaps Biking is your thing? Never fear, with a  Ravenwing company, you can do that too.

4) Fluff.

Dark Angels have one of the best history's in my opinion. Like the idea of chasing your own chapter round the galaxy? Feel you need to atone for playing CSM? Dark Angels fluff is just for you.

So, to conclude. Dark Angels can do anything a vanilla army can do (I made them out to be very shotoy, tho they are not, and any servant of the Emperor is to be feared in hand to hand. However, if your tendancy is to rip people's bleeding hearts out, then there are chapters who can do that better, but alas, do not wear dresses.) With some very useful wargear items, Terminator Honours already added to a Hero's profile, and the most feared Terminators in the Universe to back them up, Dark Angels can hold their own in close combat too. However, I think they are best played as a static force which shoots their opponents to death, before the specialist Ravenwing and Deathwing mop them up.

Sheepz
Title: Re: Which Chapter Should I Choose?
Post by: Erenthal on November 24, 2003, 04:08:11 PM
As for the Salamanders:

Do you want to field frightening number of Terminators, but don´t like the pasty-white amrour of the Deathwing? Want to roast and toast your way around the battlefield with a plethora of flamers? Want to have Space Marines so slow that they strike simultaneously with Guardsmen? Then look no further than the Salamanders!

1. Cheaper! Sallie termies are quite a bit cheaper than other chapters, meaning you get to field more of these awesome warriors. And master crafted weapons are cheaper too, so theres no reason not to hand them out to all your characters.

2. Toasty! Sallie Tactical squads can get twice as many flamers as vanilla tactical squads. Plus you can use that long-range melta of doom, the Multi Melta in your squads.

3. Sooo slooow... The major con to Sallies is that there Initiative is lower than other Chapters, meaning that they are less effective in CC.

4. Shooting galore Due to their slow wits in CC, theres all the more reason to shoot your opponent to smithereens. All Sallie characters can get a Signum, meaning that your fire will be much more accurate. And to top it off, Sallie players can even prolong the game, due to a special rule. Wee, more time for shooting!

Well, what are you waiting for? Pick up your copy of Codex: Armageddon and join the green wave!

Title: Re: Which Chapter Should I Choose?
Post by: Ranger Astheria on November 24, 2003, 10:52:56 PM
Very nice work guys, I've put them both in the original post, the little editing I did was just to keep things more uniform.  Good Work!
Title: Re: Which Chapter Should I Choose?
Post by: Samdan on November 28, 2003, 09:50:50 AM
i think the puppies deserve some representation.

Space Wolves
Do you like cute little puppies?  Then the Space Wolves is your chapter!  Great CC abilities, combined with above average shooting gives these puppies a very fierce bite.
1. Shooting: Have you ever said to yourself "Damn, I wish my heavy weapons squad could shoot more than one tank a turn!"?  Well then, the Long Fangs, the SW devastators, are perfect for you.  With an ability allowing them to shoot multiple units under certain circumstances.  They also have the option of taking the Leman Russ Exterminator, a tank exclusively for the SW, which is great at mowing down 4+ save enemies.  Other than this, they don't have a ton of other great shooting things other than basic bolters, which is their only true con in my eyes.
2. Terminators: Tired of being told what your terminators have in terms of weapons with little or no choice, and very little variation within the unit?  Wolf Guard are the answer.  Although they can only be used in the place of Vet. Sarges or bodyguard retinues, they have full access to the SW armoury, comboed with very, very cheap terminator armor, combined with the fact that every terminator can be configured differently with almost any combination of weapons, they make a very strong force.
3. Close Combat: Have you ever said, "Only one attack for charging?  Wtf is up with that!"?  Blood Claws get more than just one attack when they charge, and they are very nice in their ability to take up to four power weapons/fists in a full unit with a wolf guard.  Grey hunters combine bolter fire with the True Grit ability to provide not only a fairly decent fire base, but also decent close combat ability.
4. Stealth: SW scouts are, in my opinion, the best in the game.  This stems from the fact that they can use SW scout weapons, or norm SM weapons.  Also, with their Behind Enemy Lines special rule, it is possible for these guys to just hide out and then appear behind the enemy to wreak havoc on rear armor tanks.
Title: Re: Which Chapter Should I Choose?
Post by: Ranger Astheria on November 28, 2003, 01:38:09 PM
Very nice samdan, I've added it above, a little editing for language but that's it... hehe... I've made the size smaller too... does it still look good to everyone?
Title: Re: Which Chapter Should I Choose?
Post by: Samdan on November 28, 2003, 02:04:47 PM
thats fine, its still readable... im just happy to help out.
Title: Re: Which Chapter Should I Choose?
Post by: Valkor on November 28, 2003, 10:49:26 PM
I decided to Chime in for my green little freinds. This is from a conversation I had with ROA.

A. Your Chaplain is awesome. Always take one, atleast. Thunder Hammer, Mantle, all the goodies. A properly kitted Chappy gives you a good hero to plug up any holes

B. Thanks to the new assault rules, your veteren sarges become infinitely more useful. Be fluffy and give your vet sarges in basic tac squads Thunder Hammers, storm sheilds if you can afford it. I can assure your, proper Vet Sarges are the difference between a newb army and a force to be reckoned with. As a Salamander, you get much better sarges cheaper (MC weapons cost less and whatnot.) Look under the general section at the heroics thread for a sample.

C. Your devestators are the most effective of any SM army. A vet sarge with a signum is another requirement, as it gives you the heavy firepower otherwise lacking. I use 4 ML's myself since it is cheap, but if you have the points in cash, you may want to invent in Plasma Cannons or Lascannons.

D.Your TAC squads are the back bone of your army, never forget this. 2 flamers a peice makes any enemy nervous to get close, as a miscalculation = a toasted assault group. Some players prefer melta and plasma, but I beleive such thoughts are heretical.

E. Dreadnoughts are cool. Nothing new here, just to say.

F. My personal opinion is that Terminators are also required by law, but the other Sally player in my area is a be-atch and disagrees. But he uses GK's instead. I don't like the S. Bolters and Powerfists, and usually max out on Heavy FLamers and Thunder Hammer dudes, a squad of 5-6 is optinum.

G. Oh, and the extra turn can be a real life saver.
Title: Re: Which Chapter Should I Choose?
Post by: Ranger Astheria on November 28, 2003, 10:52:54 PM
Nice job Valkor I'll add some of that to Erenthal's bit.
Title: Re: Which Chapter Should I Choose?
Post by: JamesBot 9000 on December 8, 2003, 11:56:11 PM
Blood Angels

1. Black Rage/Red Thirst - Both an incredible strength and glaring weakness. Extra cc bonuses, but heavy weapons are nearly useless.

2.  Death Company - C'mon, who doesn't like psychotic warriors who literally fight until hacked into tiny little pieces?

3. Librarians - Their power increases the already formidable BA cc skills.

4. Dreadnought mania - Like Dreads? BA can take SIX! 3 normal, 3 of their unique Furiosos.

5. The need for speed! - BA have upgraded engines on thier Rhinos/Razorbacks, allowing them to get into cc even quicker.

6. Up up and away! - BA can get a lot more jump-pack equipped units than other Chapters, again getting them into cc quickly.
Title: Re: Which Chapter Should I Choose?
Post by: Anderz on December 10, 2003, 06:27:13 AM
ahh finaly, some good posts in this fourom...

I was last in here, when the EoT campain was on.

then i kinda took a breake to warhammer and this Fourom, as Colonel Commisar Ghostmaker did a while.

Anyway i still love my Ultramarines, there in nothing as nasty when you use Deathwhatch kill team against Niids or Orks.

They also Have the niid Hunters, guess what they are too.


Also they Include some of the coolest marine fluff ever!!! ;)


Title: Re: Which Chapter Should I Choose?
Post by: M.G.SMurf on December 11, 2003, 03:50:06 PM
Learn how to become deadly, with
Raven Gaurd

They're good, but are a hard chapter to use. You need a keen eye for weaknesses and a good idea for what your units can do. Your armylist must be tuned the right way. So why are they deadly?:

Raven Gaurd have high mobility, with abillity to deep strike accurate and with the help of scouts they can also deep strike fast. You can deep strike a lot for less, thus you get the capability to put units where you need them. You even have an alternate option for your command squad to wear lightning claws and jump packs, thus enabeling them to hit fast and hard.

Also they have some grudges against some Choas, leveling your chances against these spawns of evil.

Lastly they have a small drawback. Full out devestation, holding the hill while shooting and these kinds of actions are a lot harder with Raven Gaurd. Because they are so specialized in what they do, their Heavy Support is limited.

So if you choose this chapter, you need patience and a keen eye. Pratice until you have it, and then you are very hard to defeat.

Greetz,
M.G.SMurf
Title: Re: Which Chapter Should I Choose?
Post by: Ranger Astheria on December 12, 2003, 06:17:12 PM
Very nice MG Smurf, a little spelling editing and we're done, we've got quite a compilation going here.  This will be useful to all our members who are searching for a chapter.  BTW, Dangonblane, we know you want to write the templar part. ;)
Title: Re: Which Chapter Should I Choose?
Post by: Archon Nickienog on December 31, 2003, 09:28:45 AM
ok i got one for our beloved Black Templars... ;D

How about fanatical spacemarines in black and white armor? Have u ever wished there was a close combat oriented version of the Dark Angels? Black Templars are DA way to go!

First of all there are many cool features i wish to point out to u newbies i'd prefer to call u 'neophytes' ;)

Painting and modelling:
Black and white may sound pretty dull, but if you've seen a nicely painted Black templars army u must admit it is so damn cool you might as well start one! The black templars are fanatics that like to decorate their armor with books strapped onto their shoulder plates, sometimes spikes or painting inscriptions and lots of gibberish on their armor. which gives you loads of conversion possibilities

Weapon Options:
this chapter has loads of both ranged and CC weapon options for most squads, the normal tactical squads can be given a heavy weapon as a firesupport role, or be given a power fist/power weapon and meltagun for a flexible assault unit. These squads can number up to 15 men, 10 space marines and 5 neophytes [newbie marines in scout armor with bs and ws 3] this is what the land raider crusader is made for, carrying the full black templar squad, or up to 8 terminators!

The assault Squads have quite a range of CC weapons to choose from. 2 can be armed with power weapons, powerfists or plasma pistols. you can also give them stormshields that although takes the +1 attack for 2 cc weapons away gives them a 4+ inv save in CC. which is a good trade for ony 3points!

one of the few disadvantages to the options in this army is that the emperor's champion, a 105 pt dude that duzent even take ur HQ slot must be fielded. he also steals ur High Marshal's precious iron halo!
the 2nd disadvantage in army options is that we dont have the beloved devastator Squads! now that hurts i know but there are other things which can be used..

Special Rules: Black templars have loads of special rules, most of them having to do with close combat. :D
they are very famous for 'Falling back forwards' If youare intent on charging the enemy, u would hope to fail ur Ld test from fire casualties! to make further use of this capability, make a chaplain or any kind of Marshal or the Emperor's champion himself join a squad of urs. everytime they fall back forwards they get 3d6 [pick 2 highest] sweeping advance distance or 4d6 pick 3 highest for jump packs. because they have purity seals.

furthermore the blacktemplars also have wows, a set of special rules that u choose 1 before a battle, the most useful one is where u hit on a 3+ regardless of WS in CC, which some even call cheesy, but it also has its weaknesses..

thats about it for the Black Templars! ;)

Title: Re: Which Chapter Should I Choose?
Post by: Ranger Astheria on December 31, 2003, 06:48:39 PM
Good stuff, snot, BTW I've added FearTheReavers link in as well.
Title: Re: Which Chapter Should I Choose?
Post by: Cutlass442 on February 8, 2004, 10:07:54 PM
I play ultramarines, and you guys make me feel bad.... (looks jelously at DA info)

but, what are the BAD parts of those armies?
Title: Re: Which Chapter Should I Choose?
Post by: Ranger Astheria on February 8, 2004, 11:12:51 PM
That's a very good point, if possible would anyone like to write some con's to their armies?  I'll write some for the Deathwing.
Title: Re: Which Chapter Should I Choose?
Post by: JamesBot 9000 on February 9, 2004, 01:01:44 AM
Cons of the Blood Angels:
1)No reliable fire support. Black Rage can force your men to move, meaning they can't fire Heavy Weapons.
2)Cheeziness. If you play BA, be prepared for calls of "Cheese!" from losers.
3)Sure, Death Co are cool, but they take away from expensive, powerful units like Terminators and Veteran Assault Squads.
Title: Re: Which Chapter Should I Choose?
Post by: Zaq on February 10, 2004, 11:06:36 AM
Black Templars

Pros
Shooty: Other than DA they are the only Tac squad who can field Plasma Cannons
CC: Hit on a 3+ made the more potent by BP+CCW on every marine not even mentioning the model with the powerfist.
Shooty AND CC: You can combine Plasma Cannon with BP+CCW with your Marines making you slightly less shooty but much better in CC.
3 HQ: Emperors Champ and 2 Chaplains. Pts efficient killers. More = good. They're even more efficient with the BT rules ;).
Termies: Powerfists hitting on 3+ = good. Pity termies aren't that good normally.
Falling forward: I think we all know how nasty it is when those 60 Marines and Cullexus assassin start falling forward.
Good against eldar: They always have psykers and starcannons/reapers so taking vows that let you start 2d6 closer is pretty handy.

Cons
No Devastators: You can't max out on firepower and Preds drop much faster. You'll have to have 3 Preds to make them last long enough.
No Heavy Weapon AND powerfist: This is a big one. It's one or the other.
Falling forward: Without this BT would be an excellent shooty army. With this a balanced army can make you fall forward then assault creating a screen.

Suggestions:
1. Preds and Plasma: Plasma eats armoured troops, Lascannons for tougher targets leaving you with horde armies.  BP+CCW are pretty good for anti-horde.
2. Powerfists and Whirlies: Here you rely on powerfists and meltas for anti-tank. Whirlies take out infantry with AP3. The beauty of this list is that you can concentrate solely on infantry and if your BT are in close-combat they can't be shot while the Whirlies should be out of LOS.



Title: Re: Which Chapter Should I Choose?
Post by: Zhar on March 5, 2004, 01:31:17 PM
question: If i decided to play eagle warriors with are a subchapter of ultra-marines, do i get all the benefits and cons of ultramarines? And wut are the pros and cons of ultramarine cauz i dont have any Sm codex right now..

thx
Title: Re: Which Chapter Should I Choose?
Post by: Samdan on March 6, 2004, 09:39:06 AM
ultramarines are in the new IA w/ their nid hunter rules.  just because the chapter your gonna play is a successor chapter doesnt give them the same rules.  now, if you call them the eagle warriors but use the UM list for them, you can do that.
Title: Re: Which Chapter Should I Choose?
Post by: Ranger Astheria on March 6, 2004, 08:41:45 PM
Correct, really most chapters that are successors from the ultramarines should just be made using the normal standard codex.
Title: Re: Which Chapter Should I Choose?
Post by: Uzzy on March 31, 2004, 04:55:19 PM
What about the relictors, does any one have any info on them.

From what I heard about them they seem intresting, i.e using chaos weapons.

Oh and yes, succesor chapters should really use the normal codex.

Though it is of course your choice, i would go with ultramarines. They have a great background, great fluff, and you dont need to buy another codex to use them. The Nid Hunters are excellent, which leads me to another point, the war between the Nids and the Ultramarines is, I think, one of the best set-ups in 40k.

The Ultramarines are the best of the best, and are rarely played anymore, with new players being wowed by the vows of the black templars, the blood rage of the blood angels, the plasma death of the dark angels or the wolfyness of the space wolves. Believe me using any pure codex force gets a lot of respect around where I play.

What really made me pick Ultramarines was there heroic nature, willing to sacrifice themselves to save normal humans, not run off like a certain chapter i know 'cough' Dark Angels 'cough'.  There dont have special rules, just the fluff of being the true heroes in the dark universe of 40k.
Title: Re: Which Chapter Should I Choose?
Post by: tsalonich on April 1, 2004, 11:13:18 AM
The Special Rules for the Relictors revolve around the chapter's use of demon weapons and chaos relics.   Rules for these weapons are taken from Codex: Chaos Space Marines.   Other than this, there are no special rules or units.  Their army list would be taken directly from Codex: Space Marines.
Title: Re: Which Chapter Should I Choose?
Post by: Uzzy on April 1, 2004, 11:43:02 AM
Sounds simple enough.

What Publication would I use to back up the rules, as I sure that having a commander lugging around a warp blade would raise some eyebrows to say the least.
Title: Re: Which Chapter Should I Choose?
Post by: tsalonich on April 2, 2004, 06:44:09 PM
The Original Index Astartes article on the Relictors Chapter appeared in White Dwarf #280 (US).  I beleive they also appear in the most recent version of Index Astartes.  You will need this article as well as Codex: Chaos Space Marine.

Codex: Chaos Space Marine has the rules for the Daemon Weapons.   There are also a couple of new weapons and artifacts listed in the most recent White Dwarf (#287 US  pg. 76-77) as well as a new mission (Scenario) for a Relictors Space Marine Force.
Title: Re: Which Chapter Should I Choose?
Post by: Uzzy on April 3, 2004, 03:58:44 AM
Thanks for that, i'll go take a look.
Title: Re: Which Chapter Should I Choose?
Post by: StrainX on April 18, 2004, 05:25:58 AM
Plug for Space Wolves: Lots of wargear, elitist army, plenty of customizablity where none of the other chapters get much.
Title: Re: Which Chapter Should I Choose?
Post by: TheOnlySpiral on May 1, 2004, 08:21:44 PM
Disadvantadges of Dark Angels:
- Intractable: Fail a Morale Test taken from shooting and then you can't move for a turn.  Not a nice thing.
- Fallen: It gets repetitive to roll for this every game, and after you name the chrecter that knows of the fallen, he has a habit of disappearing in a Rhino for the whole game.
- Allies: While an awsomely fluffy rule it kinda limits some of the crazy fun possibilites you can have. 
- HQ: Your HQ choices cost more than most space marines thanks to being Stubborn and all having terminator Honors.
- Unit Choices: You don't get Veteran Squads, or the HQ squad.
Advantadges no-one has noted:
-Stuborn: You can make your squads Stubborn for 5 points if you have a Vet. Sergeant in them.  Only drawback is that you can't use optional fallback rules.  Passing All morale tests is worth it in my opinion. 
- Deathwing Terminators: For 5 points more they're stubborn, have excellent fluff, and you can make the either Shooty or Assaulty.
- Psychic Powers: Your Librarian has a choice of not 1 but 2 Psychihc powers depending on what you want him to do. 
- Ravenwing: Ravenwing have a 6+ Jink Save against attacks...Having that little edge is more than enough sometimes.  You also get to re-roll the die for a difficult terrain test.
- Plasma in tactical squads...fun fun  ;D
- awsome fluff
-Robes.  Everyone loves robes
Title: Re: Which Chapter Should I Choose?
Post by: Eddie_karrde on July 2, 2004, 05:40:07 AM
Black Templars- I love Templars and have played for years, but most people either love them or hate them.

They do have clear advantages-
Emperors Champion
Vows
Purity Seals
Charge instead of Fall Back
Honed Towards Close Combat
They'll cleave as mightily huge gap in enemy lines when they get there

But they do have a lot of disadvantages which go unseen-
Empereor's Champion is just a jumped up marine: He's a bit amphetamine parrote realy
All vows have their own disadvantage
They have very little to take down Big Nasties like C'Tan and BigDaemons
No Devestators
Theyre as good as dead if they don't get into the enemy by turn 2


I still love them though, my latest tactic is almost completly in army selection. TYhe mainstay of my force is 2 rhinos with my marshal, EC and a fully tooled up command squad (tech, vet serg etc.) and a chaplain with a command squad (just a vet sergeant) both command squads have termie honours. This is a huge chunk of my points cost, but the rhino smoke launchers mean that my enemies have to run to the hills if they dont wont some black-armourerd death plowing through their lines and impervious to shooting due to being in C-C for 90% of the game. Im currently painting up 10 (yes 10!!!!) lightning clawed termies which i can deepstrike in as support. Its a bit all or nothing and most of 3000 points is in 3 units, but it kinda becomes a case of can the enemy stop me from butchering enough of their stuff to win.
Title: Re: Which Chapter Should I Choose?
Post by: Eddie_karrde on July 2, 2004, 05:40:31 AM
Black Templars- I love Templars and have played for years, but most people either love them or hate them.

They do have clear advantages-
Emperors Champion
Vows
Purity Seals
Charge instead of Fall Back
Honed Towards Close Combat
They'll cleave as mightily huge gap in enemy lines when they get there

But they do have a lot of disadvantages which go unseen-
Empereor's Champion is just a jumped up marine: He's a bit amphetamine parrote realy
All vows have their own disadvantage
They have very little to take down Big Nasties like C'Tan and BigDaemons
No Devestators
Theyre as good as dead if they don't get into the enemy by turn 2


I still love them though, my latest tactic is almost completly in army selection. TYhe mainstay of my force is 2 rhinos with my marshal, EC and a fully tooled up command squad (tech, vet serg etc.) and a chaplain with a command squad (just a vet sergeant) both command squads have termie honours. This is a huge chunk of my points cost, but the rhino smoke launchers mean that my enemies have to run to the hills if they dont wont some black-armourerd death plowing through their lines and impervious to shooting due to being in C-C for 90% of the game. Im currently painting up 10 (yes 10!!!!) lightning clawed termies which i can deepstrike in as support. Its a bit all or nothing and most of 3000 points is in 3 units, but it kinda becomes a case of can the enemy stop me from butchering enough of their stuff to win.
Title: Re: Which Chapter Should I Choose?
Post by: Eddie_karrde on July 2, 2004, 05:40:46 AM
Black Templars- I love Templars and have played for years, but most people either love them or hate them.

They do have clear advantages-
Emperors Champion
Vows
Purity Seals
Charge instead of Fall Back
Honed Towards Close Combat
They'll cleave as mightily huge gap in enemy lines when they get there

But they do have a lot of disadvantages which go unseen-
Empereor's Champion is just a jumped up marine: He's a bit amphetamine parrote realy
All vows have their own disadvantage
They have very little to take down Big Nasties like C'Tan and BigDaemons
No Devestators
Theyre as good as dead if they don't get into the enemy by turn 2


I still love them though, my latest tactic is almost completly in army selection. TYhe mainstay of my force is 2 rhinos with my marshal, EC and a fully tooled up command squad (tech, vet serg etc.) and a chaplain with a command squad (just a vet sergeant) both command squads have termie honours. This is a huge chunk of my points cost, but the rhino smoke launchers mean that my enemies have to run to the hills if they dont wont some black-armourerd death plowing through their lines and impervious to shooting due to being in C-C for 90% of the game. Im currently painting up 10 (yes 10!!!!) lightning clawed termies which i can deepstrike in as support. Its a bit all or nothing and most of 3000 points is in 3 units, but it kinda becomes a case of can the enemy stop me from butchering enough of their stuff to win.
Title: Re: Which Chapter Should I Choose?
Post by: Eddie_karrde on July 2, 2004, 05:42:27 AM
Black Templars- I love Templars and have played for years, but most people either love them or hate them.

They do have clear advantages-
Emperors Champion
Vows
Purity Seals
Charge instead of Fall Back
Honed Towards Close Combat
They'll cleave as mightily huge gap in enemy lines when they get there

But they do have a lot of disadvantages which go unseen-
Empereor's Champion is just a jumped up marine: He's a bit amphetamine parrote realy
All vows have their own disadvantage
They have very little to take down Big Nasties like C'Tan and BigDaemons
No Devestators
Theyre as good as dead if they don't get into the enemy by turn 2


I still love them though, my latest tactic is almost completly in army selection. TYhe mainstay of my force is 2 rhinos with my marshal, EC and a fully tooled up command squad (tech, vet serg etc.) and a chaplain with a command squad (just a vet sergeant) both command squads have termie honours. This is a huge chunk of my points cost, but the rhino smoke launchers mean that my enemies have to run to the hills if they dont wont some black-armourerd death plowing through their lines and impervious to shooting due to being in C-C for 90% of the game. Im currently painting up 10 (yes 10!!!!) lightning clawed termies which i can deepstrike in as support. Its a bit all or nothing and most of 3000 points is in 3 units, but it kinda becomes a case of can the enemy stop me from butchering enough of their stuff to win.
Title: Re: Which Chapter Should I Choose?
Post by: dantesdeathdealer on July 13, 2004, 12:27:47 AM
I paly the Blood Angels and not ownly are they fun to play but there fun to paint to i also like the cool ass stories and i love the to assault a squad and watching your opponets smile go to a frown when your ripping threw there squads with ease,and dont u just love the smell of bone sinew and burning flesh.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              YOU fool the Blood Angels are not cursed it was a last gift from Sanguinius!
Title: Re: Which Chapter Should I Choose?
Post by: JamesBot 9000 on July 16, 2004, 11:47:01 PM
YOU fool the Blood Angels are not cursed it was a last gift from Sanguinius!
It's a mixed blessing. Sure, we kick butt in cc, but ever tried using a Devastator Squad in a BA army? Nearly worthless unless you are EXTREMELY lucky with dice rolls.


Title: Re: Which Chapter Should I Choose?
Post by: dantesdeathdealer on July 17, 2004, 08:29:05 PM
sorry if this sounds stupid but what does cc and ba mean
Title: Re: Which Chapter Should I Choose?
Post by: JamesBot 9000 on July 18, 2004, 11:58:53 PM
sorry if this sounds stupid but what does cc and ba mean
cc = close combat
ba = blood angels
Title: Re: Which Chapter Should I Choose?
Post by: Uzzy on August 1, 2004, 07:47:12 AM
13th Company.

With all the recent posts about 13th Company, I though I should add them to the list of chapters.

So Gather round young pups, and learn of the company lost to time.

Pros.
1) Insane Close Combat abilities.
2) Wolf Packs.
3) Fantastic Conversion Opportunities.
4) Scouts special rule
5) Small Army, so light on the wallet, and quick to paint.

Cons.
1) Basic Marine is the most expensive marine points wise (except Grey Knights)
2) No Vehicles (other then Bikes)
3) No allies
4) No Drop Pods.
5) Need lots of cover.

Its not that bad, really.

Firstly, your guys will beat anything in CC. Blood Angles, World Eaters, Nids. They all die. Your basic Marine is the equivalent of a Wolf Guard.
Secondly, your guys are very fast, for a footslogging army. Try playing them on a Cityfight board, full of terrain and you will see what I mean.

Lets look at some of the characters.

Wolf Lord. Anything that can pump out 9 Strength 5 Power Weapon attacks needs to be feared. This guy can destroy units single handedly.

Rune Priest. This guy adds the mobility you need. His special deep striking power means you can hop around the board like mad.

Wolf Priest. Excellent guy to go with Wulfen or Storm Claws.

Now the units.

Wulfen. Some would say these are the signature units, and I would tend to agree. A full strength squad can pump out 60 attacks on the charge! Just make sure they don't run after tanks, which is why you should always have them with a Wolf Priest.

Storm Claws. I love these guys. You can have 16 Powerfist attacks coming from these guys! Only a C'tan would have a chance of surviving that.

Gray Slayers. As the basic unit of the 13th Company, these guys could be a lot worse. But luckily for us, they rock. They can just about kick anyones butt. You need as many of these as you can get.

Fenrisian Wolves. These guys are excellent. They just rock. Dirt Cheap wolves, charging off into the distance. Have these tie up squads, so your marines don't get shot to pieces.

Storm Claw Bikers. Great Fun, but expensive. If you have a Wolf Lord on a bike, grab some of these, but other wise, keep them for the big games.

Long Fangs. Almost essential, as the only source of long range fire these guys are important. Make sure you kit them out for tank busting/marine busting.

Basically, the 13th Company are the Space Wolves taken to the nth degree. Absolutely mad in Close Combat, but lacking the means to get there quickly. But take them, and watch as your opponents get annihilated.

For more details on the 13th Company, check this (http://wulfen.cjb.net/) out.
Title: Re: Which Chapter Should I Choose?
Post by: Wuestenfux on October 24, 2004, 10:58:48 AM
Uzzy - good introduction, also on your site. I tend to build up a 13 Co army as I like (1) CC armies and (2) stay away from tanks at the moment.
Title: Re: Which Chapter Should I Choose?
Post by: Anderz on December 12, 2004, 05:23:31 PM
Ultramarines

Reagular chapter... got lotza special troop's and characters... no disadvantages
Title: Re: Which Chapter Should I Choose?
Post by: citronade on December 25, 2004, 12:34:57 AM
Blood Angels:  Being a first founding chapter, the Blood Angels have a rich history, most notably the death of their primarch Sanguinius at the hand of Horus.  This death triggered a rage in all Blood Angels causing them to be ferrocious in close combat.  Blood Angels suffer from the black rage.  This gives them all the furious charge ability, but also gives them a chance of having to rush forward at the start of each turn, which while good for assault units, makes fire support units unreliable (at least the ones that can't move and shoot).  Blood Angels also have access to other units such as the BAAL class predator, the Furioso Dreadnought, the Sanguinary High Priest, and rhinos and razorbacks with overcharged engines.  Furthurmore on the eve of battle many Blood Angels decide to join a special unit called the Death Company, which is one of the most feared close combat units in the game.  With Blood Angels expect to play an assault oriented army with some fire support units, some of which may be unreliable. 

A Blood Angels army might contain many units with jumppacks (including the death company), lots of tactical squads mounted in rhinos, and fire support units that are unaffected by the black rage (IE ones that can move and shoot) such as dreadnoughts and landspeeders. 

Players may also incorporate, scouts, terminators and other units into their battle plans.  Despite the risk of not being able to fire some players (including me) will also use whirlwinds and predator annihilators as heavy support. 
Title: Re: Which Chapter Should I Choose?
Post by: Chaplain Swordwind on December 30, 2004, 02:54:00 PM
Where can I find the rules for using a Black Templar Army?  They don't have their own codex that I know of and I haven't seen their chapter specific rules anywhere else.  Can someone help me out?
Title: Re: Which Chapter Should I Choose?
Post by: Ceo-suther on December 30, 2004, 04:05:26 PM
Whatabout all Ravenwing force, you should include somthing on them (like there just about the only marine force i'd ever play)
Title: Re: Which Chapter Should I Choose?
Post by: [dixon] on December 30, 2004, 04:07:20 PM
Bean2213 - Black Templar rules are in the Armageddon Codex. 
Title: Re: Which Chapter Should I Choose?
Post by: Plaugebearer on January 14, 2005, 05:49:33 AM
Normal space marines arent any good, join the dark side instead  8)
Title: Re: Which Chapter Should I Choose?
Post by: gaurdsmen hellard on January 14, 2005, 07:28:58 AM
Normal space marines arent any good, join the dark side instead  8)
do you think your darth vader or someing  :D dude i say go space wolves they did me some good
Title: Re: Which Chapter Should I Choose?
Post by: spazz on January 15, 2005, 08:53:48 AM
does anyone know the pros/cons of Imperial Fists
Title: Re: Which Chapter Should I Choose?
Post by: the great beaver on February 3, 2005, 05:32:23 PM
Ultramarines

Reagular chapter... got lotza special troop's and characters... no disadvantages

there is one disadvantage: jacks of all trades they are yes, but masters of none too. they can be out shot, out fought, out tanked, out assaulted. what ever army can out-"whatever" them usually lacks in something that the marines will be good at, but most specialist army players are experts at not letting their weaknesses affect them.

specialist armies include:

craft world eldar
orks
tau
space wolves
13th company
thousand sons
Index astartes white scars
troop heavy guard


these armies (and some I havent mentioned) are for the gamer looking for a challenge.

good luck
Title: Re: Which Chapter Should I Choose?
Post by: WhiteKnight on February 7, 2005, 07:29:17 PM
Greetings,

I have collected and commanded forces of the Dark Angels chapter for the better part of ten years, and as such, I will attempt to help out the proverbial 'newbie in need'.  I could go on for a while about the diverse reasons to choose a Dark Angels force.  However, I will restrain myself to Ravenwing detachments here, as they remain largely unheard of and unknown, and also because I believe the current Dark Angels description to be relatively adequate.  In addition, I maintain that part of the 40K enjoyment is found in the discovery of one's own chapter history, which holds especially true for this mysterious and enigmatic Chapter.

THE RAVENWING

The Dark Angels Second Company is entirely devoted to the members of the Ravenwing.  The Ravenwing Company contains Land Speeders, Bikes and Attack Bikes.  The Ravenwing riders are masters of their craft and therefore cost more than the regular space marine bikers, but have an invulnerable 'jink' save and are more maneuverable as they can traverse difficult terrain in relative safety.  In a Ravenwing detachment, The Master of the Ravenwing (on Landspeeder or on Bike) acts as the Headquarters unit, Ravenwing Bike Squadrons represent troops, Ravenwing Attack Bike Squadrons represent Fast Attack and the Ravenwing Landspeeder squadrons play the role of Heavy support, although many units can serve dual purposes.  A Ravenwing detachment can usually outmaneuver most other armies and can also put down a fair amount of fire.  Even though there is a relatively low amount of selection, the army can, due to the carefully selected variety of weapons, usually deal with most threats.  The Army is incredibly thematic and the Jet black models attract attention form all but the most hardened war veterans.  If played properly, a Ravenwing detachment can also earn a Grandmaster a fair amount of respect, as the army will, in general, field many less models than the opposing force.  Additionally, the low amount of models allows precision to be paid to each individual vehicle, allowing pride to play a large part in the presentation of the army.  Incredibly, a Ravenwing detachment can be extremely versatile, and can be tailored to fit most roles.  A Grandmaster must move carefully, swiftly and deftly if he is to keep his units safe from overwhelming fire, maintain his ability to return fire and retain efficiency of motion.  The small amount of units allows a skilled Grandmaster to control which fights are fought, and which are not, ability that can frustrate many a targetless enemy heavy support unit.  As usual, ultimately, success depends on quality of generalship.  In short, the Ravenwing are a rather challenging, highly entertaining force to field, and are unique enough to inspire fear in the unknowing. 



P.S. I hope I did not violate any copyrights in my description of the company's force organization, as these are only intended as a quick guide of the general makeup of the detachments to those in need and are intended for use only in conjunction with Codex Space Marines and Codex Dark Angels.

P.S.S. I am ready and willing to convey most of my knowledge of this Chapter if the need exists, but it will be a laborious process, one which I do wish to undertake unless someone will actually benefit.
Title: Re: Which Chapter Should I Choose?
Post by: the great beaver on February 8, 2005, 04:27:09 AM
 :o

wow. that is a good description.

you sir, seam to just breath Dark Angel :P


very well said
Title: Re: Which Chapter Should I Choose?
Post by: Wuestenfux on February 9, 2005, 03:10:51 AM
WhiteKnight: Welcome to 40konline. Your intro is really useful. What would be a core list of a RW army?
Title: Re: Which Chapter Should I Choose?
Post by: Martyj660 on February 13, 2005, 06:25:14 PM
i think that you should choose the dark angeks. They are very good for taking key positions and then blowing the enemy away. They're stubborn rule is very good if you like standing your ground and killing everything in range, and if you don't want to spend the extra points they are intracrable anyways. Also, they're Deathwing are everything but invincible, and they're Ravenwing are very powerful if used correctly. Basically it's ravenwing moving in for quick hit-and-run attacks that burn out the enemy, the deathwing annihilate anything that is within they're range, and then everything that manages to hit your front line is toast since you're core units are experts at volleys of controlled fire. All these tactical advantages give just you an edge against most armies unless the enemy has lots of units, like the Orks. Still, the Orks have absolutely no save against Marine weapons, and the Orks donlt do very well for in terms of shooting. All of this, plus the fact that the fluff and fiction stuff is absolutely limitless for this most msterious of chapters, is why I would recomend them to anyone who is collecting Marines. If you don't like shooty, then I would recomend the Black Templars since they are totally devoted to cutting things to tiny bits with knives. Pointy knives.     
Title: Re: Which Chapter Should I Choose?
Post by: kitana on February 23, 2005, 07:07:03 PM
I have played Dark Angels for over 5 yrs now.  They are one of the best suited armies out there for marines if you want a stand back and kill 'em as they get there army.

My basics for a 1500pt army:

hq 1 : Asmodai
hq 2 : Lib w/ jump pack & force sword w/ plasma pistol

heavy 1: whirlwind
heavy 2: whirlwind
heavy 3: whirlwind

elite 1: dread
elite 2: dread

troop 1: sgt with b pistol & ccw & 9 marines w/ bolters
troop 2: "     "      "          "          "            "        "
troop 3: "     "      "           "          "             "      "
troop 4: "     "       "         "           "             "       "
troop 5: "     "      "          "           "             "       "
troop 6: scouts w/sniper rifles

Give a few modles here and there, this was just off the top of my head.  I've been painting more than I have played in the past 6 months.

I like the fire power and range that the Angels give me, with the stats of marines.  And those whirlwinds are never a bad choice against Orcs!

Kitana
Title: Re: Which Chapter Should I Choose?
Post by: dark-reaper109 on February 28, 2005, 04:29:53 PM
My "puppies" could kick your ass!!! You defile the great name of the space WOLVES.
Title: Re: Which Chapter Should I Choose?
Post by: Captain Ehrman on February 28, 2005, 05:35:48 PM
What is fluff?  ???
Title: Re: Which Chapter Should I Choose?
Post by: Wuestenfux on March 1, 2005, 10:10:48 AM
Fluff means some kind of background story.
Please don´t ask such simple questions (also about abbreviations) here. They belong to the Newbies section.
Title: Re: Which Chapter Should I Choose?
Post by: khazrak on March 7, 2005, 08:52:46 PM
hmmm.....

....this isn't to do with tactics but just for eye catching value how about the exorcists chapter they have an interesting backstory ,or my army the legion of the damned as they have the most unique armor desighn,and they CAN (not always) count as one big unit (insert beavis and butt-head joke here).
Title: Re: Which Chapter Should I Choose?
Post by: spacewolvesrule40 on March 11, 2005, 06:22:13 AM
if you like an infantry based heavy fire power army go for the space wolves - my army has not been beatin in 20 games in a row the most guys i have lost i 5 so i must be doin somethin right
Title: Re: Which Chapter Should I Choose?
Post by: the machine god on March 20, 2005, 06:55:55 AM
why are dark angel termies better then normal ones?  ;D
Title: Re: Which Chapter Should I Choose?
Post by: Malcavitch on April 5, 2005, 11:54:30 PM
A die hard vetern of Bolter and Chainsword (hope I don't break any rules for mentioning them) will say because they don't fall back.  They are effectivly fearless (stubbern), but cost a few points more for that. 

One of the tricks with Space Wolves is they play slightly differently then other marines, they are one of the few marines who, as a whole, do better in hand to hand combat then at shooting.  Having multiple powerfists in a squad can do that.  The lake of a squad heavy weapon can be agrivating though
Title: Re: Which Chapter Should I Choose?
Post by: the great beaver on April 6, 2005, 12:16:18 AM
I started off playing space wolves and I cannot understand having heavy weapons in tac squads. even the very first time I played a demo game vs dark eldar I simply refused to keep my guys still (even then I didnt know black templars liked HTH) in order to shoot the heavy bolter.

I actually find it difficult to hold my troops back even when I should. I love close combat, I love charging in, I love rending my foes to peices and stomping upon their remains, I love the smell of spilt blood and the sounds of snapping vertebrae in my ears, I love sweeping over my fallen enemies into their back ranks where I can smite down their cowardly leaders who hide behind the real warriors who I had quickly smote.

good lord but i really am a blood claw :D

if you like chasing your enemy, if you like pouncing upon them or dying amidst them in GLORIOUS combat then take space wolves.

if you like hiding behind defensive barricades but you still want to look like your a space marine, then take dark angels :P

after all this is a fantasy game. whats the point if your not going to embody the flaming sword of the emperor :D


(ps: just kidding about DA  :-* )
Title: Re: Which Chapter Should I Choose?
Post by: BT_Queen on May 23, 2005, 08:07:20 PM
Personally I find Ultramarines are boring, same with Black Templars (and I would know from experiance).  :-\

Space Wolves are rather interesting, as I have a friend who also plays them.

Also as many people have mentioned before, Dark Angels are very nice.

 :)
Title: Re: Which Chapter Should I Choose?
Post by: OneMeanChicken on June 6, 2005, 05:18:53 PM
I have proxied a bunch of different chapters with my brother and found things i like and dislike about each army.
I have owned a Space Wolf and Blood Angels and borrowed/proxied pretty much all the different chapters. Then I sold all my 40k stuff cause i needed money. But now I am getting back into 40k and I am makin a Blood Angel Army again.

Anyways...
I still think if you want to play Close combat stick with Blood angels or the wolfs... Templar are slow like the wolfs but really can't take the beatin they can. Plus they can't have veteren sargents and I think that makes more of a difference then not.
Blood Angels: Fasted Space marine army other then White Bike army (forgot name) Can get into close combat surprizingly fast and with furious charge can take out most space marine armies before they strike back (if you know what ur doing.)
 
Space Wolfs: Slow... Fery slow... but can take more hits and servive better in cc then most other space marines with all those powerweapons/fists. Very very nice Librarian power... Though I find the lack of firepower kinda anoying.

As for Dark Angels.... right now if I wanted to go firepower I think I would stick with vanalla marines since they can have plasma cannons in tac squads now... Mainly because they got all those chapters traits to play around with. I really like a defestator squad with plasma cannons that can infiltrate. Or a Assualt marine squad with furious charge. Though I always thought a razorwing or deathwing army would be fun to play with.
Title: Re: Which Chapter Should I Choose?
Post by: Agier on June 14, 2005, 10:17:08 AM
Some Raven guard pros and cons
pros
1)they can sport an army of 70 assault marines in one force org by useing the rules in the new space marine codex.
2)regular marines are now better at close combat.
3)furious charge is a great asset for you jum pack troops.
4)cool veteran skills for Shrike and his comm squad

cons
1)Shrike's boys are very expensive even though they are under "retail" if u calculate a assault marines with that equipment.
2)Be carefull not to rely on one squad too much as this can make or break your army (a 500 pt squad being hit with a S 10 AP 1 Ordanace wep sucks)
3)Transports count as fast attack (even drop pods) which i am personaly trying to get figured out (ok for rhinos and razorbacks but drop pods?!!)
Title: Re: Which Chapter Should I Choose?
Post by: Wuestenfux on July 3, 2005, 08:10:03 AM
Raven Guard is a nice army to play. However, Veteran Assault squads are expensive point-wise. And when there is sparse terrain on the board, the Assault squads may get heavily decimated before they reach the enemy's front ranks.
Notice also that Shrike has no invulnerable save making him less useful.
Title: Re: Which Chapter Should I Choose?
Post by: Chaplian chris on July 17, 2005, 06:18:47 PM
why are dark angel termies better then normal ones?  ;D

one thing is they are stuburn and i dont know if they are  changing this rule or not but any dark angel terminators
can change there stormbolter and power fist with either a pair of lightning claws or a thunder hammer and a storm sheild at no additional cost.
and up to two may be armed with one of the following weapons assault cannon, heavy flamer, cyclone missle launcher.
and any can change their power fist to a chain fist.

i heared a rumer umungst games workshop staff that this rule was being terminated.
Title: Re: Which Chapter Should I Choose?
Post by: Chaplian chris on July 17, 2005, 06:23:39 PM
Though I always thought a razorwing or deathwing army would be fun to play with.

sorry im not useally in the habit of corecting people but it is ravenwing, and the white bike army is the white scars.
Title: Re: Which Chapter Should I Choose?
Post by: qwertypp7 on July 26, 2005, 05:10:53 PM
black templars are a must choose! you may ask why? cos instead of running away they run towards the enemy and if you choose the vow they can auto hit on 3+ in close combat! what is better than that!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Which Chapter Should I Choose?
Post by: Zany Reaper on July 26, 2005, 05:47:59 PM

Too bad that my Alaitoc Eldar can ruin your Close Combat force there Qwerty,  Shooting rules!

I have so far never lost a proper match to Black Templars, ever since I found out how to use Vypers to the max.

Chapter wise, I'd go with the Dark Angels, as their much needed Plasma weapons don't overheat, making them nearly as useful as starcannons are!  You could also use White Scars, as they've got some cool Hit & Run tactics there, & are fast!  Speed & mobility is what I favour...
Title: Re: Which Chapter Should I Choose?
Post by: qwertypp7 on July 26, 2005, 06:10:15 PM
cheating pixies with their starcannons *grumble grumble* ruin my day will they!!!!  >:(
Title: Re: Which Chapter Should I Choose?
Post by: Koonitz on July 27, 2005, 09:18:45 PM
Zany Reaper, qwertypp7, you two have been warned already. Do not bicker like children in this forum. You are being watched. Continue and be removed.
Title: Re: Which Chapter Should I Choose?
Post by: Star Slayer on August 1, 2005, 01:00:36 AM
Interesting stuff, but now out-dated since the new Codex has been out for awhile.
Maybe this shouldn't be "sticky" anymore.
Anyone want to update this thread? Some stuff just isn't the same anymore(example: Salamanders lower initiative).
Title: Re: Which Chapter Should I Choose?
Post by: Guardsman606 on August 23, 2005, 11:20:42 AM
I would go with Imperial Fists
Lysander and his Armour Save I still say cant be beaten
Title: Re: Which Chapter Should I Choose?
Post by: Dranshmont on October 9, 2005, 11:01:25 AM
Oh and if some one wants to play a chapter that's cheap and cheesy against the DE...go for the Black templar...and dont forget to make Xenos your prefered enemy.
Title: Re: Which Chapter Should I Choose?
Post by: vaderhader on December 4, 2005, 02:43:16 PM
deathwatch: xeno hunters
pros: great bolters 4 bolter upgrades
good cc true grit
inquistors and any of his homies
cons high cost only grey knights cost more
no codex
Title: Re: Which Chapter Should I Choose?
Post by: Dark_Zadok on May 1, 2006, 08:13:23 AM
can anyone do a description on Imperial Fists?
I'd would except, i dont know alot about them...i only know bits form the seige of the palace (before second founding) and the Ironcage incident (again before second founding)

do people dismay them because their Yellow? or is it something else?

Z - Of the Imperial Fists  ;)
Title: Re: Which Chapter Should I Choose?
Post by: Arun on May 1, 2006, 08:39:52 AM
What strengths do the Black Templars have that doesn't make the Blood Angels and Space Wolves much better than them?
Title: Re: Which Chapter Should I Choose?
Post by: MASTER_BRONIUS on May 3, 2006, 02:40:46 PM
i think u should play as ultramarines because as they have no special advantages (except tyrannid veterans) it also means that there is no disadvantages.
Title: Re: Which Chapter Should I Choose?
Post by: The Reborn on June 30, 2006, 10:15:22 AM
My friend has recently started an Imperial Fists army, he`s still at the buying and building stage and i`m ashamed to say, i cannot help him much.  I`m a dyed-in-the-wool Eldar player and the only thing i know about marines is that they squelch when you`re scraping them off your boot.... ;D

However.....i think a force made up of wall-to-wall yellow will look amazing on the table and that Lysander figure is one of the nicer ones around for marines IMO.  Someone should do a list or two and tactica for IF`s and give us all a break from DA, BA SW and UM`s.....

I think the problem lies with the difficulty of painting yellow.  You either spray everything black and then try to "bring-in" the yellow gradually using a mid or light brown or even Bleached Bone, or you go the whole hog and spray white, then coat yellow with washes of orange or brown ink for the recesses. This of course means that you`ll be blacking-out all the none-yellow bits for the rest of your life.... :-\

Teleport Assault is a good reason to play the Fists though, and is great for anyone who loves Termies...or yellow...... ;)  Also, if you are into fluff reasons, then how about the bravery of Brother-Captain Escharra from the book "Storm of Iron"?  If you haven`t read this yet then you really need to....

Wuestenfux, Uzzy....anyone..... how about a Tactica Fists then?

Happy gaming, Reborn. :)
Title: Re: Which Chapter Should I Choose?
Post by: Wuestenfux on July 1, 2006, 02:40:07 PM
The Lysander model is really nice, although I converted it to a (Terminator) Librarian w/ storm shield, storm bolter, and force weapon.

In terms of IF tactics, take Lysander and build around him a deep striking or drop podding terminator based army. Add some drop podding Dreads and as standard take cc or bolter wielding Scouts setting up rather close to the enemy if necessary.
Title: Re: Which Chapter Should I Choose?
Post by: MASTER_BRONIUS on July 2, 2006, 04:33:49 AM
i collect different chapte rmasters and wen i got lysander he looked to cramped so i moved his right arm up and to the side and moved his left arm a bit down and to the side with greenstuff he looks cool. 8)
Title: Re: Which Chapter Should I Choose?
Post by: The Reborn on July 2, 2006, 12:55:24 PM
Wuestenfux, how are you mate? Long time no talk, hope things are well with you. It`s a sad thing you know, when an Eldar player has to come all the way over to the Marine board, to meet such a decent, nice guy...... ;D
Keep rolling 6`s W.

-Reborn. :)
Title: Re: Which Chapter Should I Choose?
Post by: Colonel Penguin on July 18, 2006, 10:08:52 PM
Completly off topic (yet some how back to the original topic) A good space marine army is a tactically flexible army is definitly space wolves like metinoed in the original post the have access to long fangs (the excellent ability to divide fire allowing you to focus on both anti infantry and anti tank) and access to special equipement not in any other chapter (frost blades, runic charms, wolf pelts, etc.) and their venerable dreadnoughts are still superieur to most all othe walkers.
Title: Re: Which Chapter Should I Choose?
Post by: blacktemplarcommander on December 18, 2006, 12:46:09 PM
A good space marine army is a tactically flexible army is definitly space wolves like metinoed in the original post the have access to long fangs (the excellent ability to divide fire allowing you to focus on both anti infantry and anti tank) and access to special equipement not in any other chapter (frost blades, runic charms, wolf pelts, etc.) and their venerable dreadnoughts are still superieur to most all othe walkers.

Ya but Long Fangs can be quite expensive, though i do agree that dividing fire seriously kicks butt.
Title: Re: Which Chapter Should I Choose?
Post by: DarkTau on February 8, 2007, 10:14:08 PM
I say make your own chapter... this is the one i made...


Astartes Mechanicus
The Mechanized Bloodthersters


Notable Divergence
Advantages
Scions of Mars
Heed the wisdom of the Ancients

Disadvantages
Eye to Eye

Home world: Delta Tao

   This Chapter is a thrown together Chapter from the remains of 8 Battle ridden Chapter. They were on The Horus Heresy. The remains of 8 Chapters that took extremely high casualties and they decided to merge the Chapters to make the Astartes Mechanicus. The Departmento Munitorum moved the new Chapter away from The Eye of Terror to Delta Tao to recuperate from the effects of Chaos so they would not fall. The tainted were purged and the ones deemed pure were sent to Delta Tao for further purification. The planet was a Agro world so there was plenty of room to set up a citadel. They soon found it to be a mineral rich world perfect to repair Terminator Armor and Dreadnought from the 8 Chapters. For the ones that proved themselves righteous for the Emperor’s ideals in battle. Now any Space Marines that fell in the Emperor’s honor were graced with becoming Dreadnought warriors. The World was soon attacked by an invasion of Tyranids. They fought heavily against the Tyranids. They were soon called the Mechanized Bloodthersters for the amount of Tyanid organs they feasted on after a battle.

if you have a problem with my Chapter please PM me
Title: Re: Which Chapter Should I Choose?
Post by: Kishvier on February 10, 2007, 08:16:40 PM
Thanks a ton, I have choosen my chapter finally and it is the dark angels ;D
Title: Re: Which Chapter Should I Choose?
Post by: Atomic Rooster on April 16, 2007, 01:39:04 PM
I think a do it yourself chapter is the way to go. 

Over the many years I've played, I saw GW change army lists significantly enough to change my sentiments about some chapters.  If you make your own chapter, YOU are in control and can pick whatever space marine army list best suits the style of play you've played in previous editions.

The main reason I picked Space Marines for my current army is because I'm confident that 90%+ of the models will be useful in future editions with minimal conversions, and will operate much the same way as it did in the current edition.
Title: Re: Which Chapter Should I Choose?
Post by: billybob650 on June 12, 2007, 05:13:48 PM
My own apinnion even thought im a newbie is the ultra marines as they have no disavanteges exept those tyraid hunters and the starter set already comes with some transfers!
Title: Re: Which Chapter Should I Choose?
Post by: SyNide on July 11, 2007, 07:17:06 AM
Hi, are there any Raven Guard Veterans who can tell me about the army in it's current trait incarnation? What i've found on this thread is sorely lacking  :(
Title: Re: Which Chapter Should I Choose?
Post by: jawmonkey on September 23, 2007, 03:12:38 AM
I just finished a ard boys tourney with a Dark Angels (lacking 140pts) win-draw-lost, my army is feeble, knew it would lose and needs help, but they have a lot of staying power and I'm going to try harder next year, but they didn't let me down one bit! (only played to get experience anyway)

really though, you could read a thousands posts like this, but you should just choose the army that appeals to you the most, which one do you think looks the coolest! you should be looking harder into lucky dice not armies, I need some that only role 6's!
Title: Re: Which Chapter Should I Choose?
Post by: BearBitesHurt on November 23, 2007, 08:17:34 PM
I say make your own chapter... this is the one i made...


Astartes Mechanicus
The Mechanized Bloodthersters


Notable Divergence
Advantages
Scions of Mars
Heed the wisdom of the Ancients

Disadvantages
Eye to Eye

Home world: Delta Tao

   This Chapter is a thrown together Chapter from the remains of 8 Battle ridden Chapter. They were on The Horus Heresy. The remains of 8 Chapters that took extremely high casualties and they decided to merge the Chapters to make the Astartes Mechanicus. The Departmento Munitorum moved the new Chapter away from The Eye of Terror to Delta Tao to recuperate from the effects of Chaos so they would not fall. The tainted were purged and the ones deemed pure were sent to Delta Tao for further purification. The planet was a Agro world so there was plenty of room to set up a citadel. They soon found it to be a mineral rich world perfect to repair Terminator Armor and Dreadnought from the 8 Chapters. For the ones that proved themselves righteous for the Emperor’s ideals in battle. Now any Space Marines that fell in the Emperor’s honor were graced with becoming Dreadnought warriors. The World was soon attacked by an invasion of Tyranids. They fought heavily against the Tyranids. They were soon called the Mechanized Bloodthersters for the amount of Tyanid organs they feasted on after a battle.

if you have a problem with my Chapter please PM me

Just as a side note, those Chapter Traits are identical to those of the Iron Hands.
Title: Re: Which Chapter Should I Choose?
Post by: Cortez on December 16, 2007, 11:10:11 PM
The Blood Angels army thing is a bit out of date with the new codex, so, read up. there's a PDF on the British or U.S site s in the BA section.
Title: Re: Which Chapter Should I Choose?
Post by: serge on July 1, 2008, 05:20:14 PM
What about the Red Scorpions with their FW rules? Are they any good ruleswise?
Title: Re: Which Chapter Should I Choose?
Post by: xylusofthewebway on September 6, 2008, 02:30:53 PM
im going to get black reach so im doing ultramarines...

although if i started space marines any other time i would do ultramarines just because i love the bright blue colour scheme
Title: Re: Which Chapter Should I Choose?
Post by: thecon36 on January 12, 2009, 03:21:56 PM
Blood Dragons is my new chapter. Check out my pic that's them. If anyone wants to check out a paint scheme go to bolter and chainsword and find that army painter.  It's sick.
Title: Re: Which Chapter Should I Choose?
Post by: pdelair on March 11, 2009, 10:41:14 AM
Quote
What strengths do the Black Templars have that doesn't make the Blood Angels and Space Wolves much better than them?

More relevant rules. I love my Wolves and wouldn't trade them for the world but my Codex is 10+ years old and very outdated compared to newer books, not to mention that some of my cool rules went away with 5th Ed (No matter the odds, where art thou?). Not a good choice for a new army right now. That being said, I'm fairly competitive with them despite everything else.
Title: Re: Which Chapter Should I Choose?
Post by: cosmicpixie on July 15, 2009, 11:44:53 AM
hey,I'm just starting a SM army after doing IG, I like shooty armies, which chapter should I do?
Title: Re: Which Chapter Should I Choose?
Post by: Cortez on July 16, 2009, 11:05:11 PM
Well, it really depends what kind of shooty.

Melta/flamer heavy would be salamanders, balanced but more shooty would be ultras. Siege is Imperial Fists. Or make your own.
Title: Re: Which Chapter Should I Choose?
Post by: bleach on August 31, 2009, 06:27:18 PM
Ultramarines as there the only army the emperor would give his mark of approval to as they are the only army who have kept true to what the emperor created in the first gene seeds which is an awseome all-around kick but superhuman
they arent super good at anything yet there arent super bad at anyting and they probably have the best leaders in the marine army (calgar and sicarius).
Title: Re: Which Chapter Should I Choose?
Post by: Goodmead on September 16, 2010, 03:16:43 PM
Hello, I just started collecting and painting again after 10 years. I used to play Blood Angles, but a while ago sold them b/c no one i knew played. Recently I've started collecting again, painting, and building terrain.

I decided after wandering around the GW web page for 3 days, to play space wolves, b/c who doesn't love a bunch of space barbarians.
Anyway, I was wondering if anyone had an opinion on "Grey Knights" or the Forge world exclusive chapter "Red Scorpions"?

(additional question: I found two old metal assassins that i had painted and saved, one is a vindicare, and the other is Callidus. Could I put them in my space wolves army or are they reserved for Imperial guard or some such thing?) :o
Title: Re: Which Chapter Should I Choose?
Post by: Mr.Peanut (Turtleproof) on September 29, 2010, 09:27:00 AM
What kind of opinion about Grey Knights?  They make for very small, difficult to play armies.  It's satisfying as they are among the most unique of Space Marine Chapters and the only one that plays like Space Marines should- triumphing over impossible odds.

Assassins may be taken under certain circumstances, you'll have to refer to the Witch Hunters or Daemonhunters Codexes to find out how.
Title: Re: Which Chapter Should I Choose?
Post by: pheonix lord slinjak on December 31, 2010, 07:03:19 PM
the best thing to do when you don't know which chapter to use is to create your own .i created mine when i didn't know rather to go with salamanders,raven gaurd and grey knights and i havent turned back since
Title: Re: Which Chapter Should I Choose?
Post by: Dark_Zadok on January 3, 2011, 05:23:53 AM
Most marine players these days are playing as: Blood Angels or Space Wolves.
That is because they have had their codex updated with new rules and models - majority of these units due to rule changes and fluff means they are cheaper point wise and more effective at what they do, then the standard "space marine codex".

some examples: Baal predator (BAs) is cheaper than a Dakka Pred. Long fangs (SWs) are cheaper than Devastators. One of these chapters allows for deepstriking Landraiders, and both of these chapters, their units come with USRs already included in their point costs: Furious Charge etc

Title: Re: Which Chapter Should I Choose?
Post by: Kronoss on February 27, 2011, 05:18:15 PM
This thread is outdated and well is kinda pointless to have sticked if it dosnt get an update and more info at the chapters that have a codex.

Becouse the dates it were created is from 2003 and were last updated 2006. It's from 3rd Ed rulebook.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Which Chapter Should I Choose?
« on: February 1, 2003, 03:05:17 PM »


« Last Edit: August 9, 2006, 12:06:54 PM by Creeping Death »
Title: Re: Which Chapter Should I Choose?
Post by: Phostoukosmou on March 6, 2012, 01:34:10 PM
Black Templar:
No one mentioned assault termies with lightning claws in this armie.

Emperor's Champion Vow Accept any challenge giving a bonus to hitting in combat.

Terminator Lightning claws when charging w/ furious charge

Add a Chaplain in Termie armor and you are now rerolling misses on your charge!

/drool

Just another thought.
[gmod]Removed posted stats. Always operate under the assumption that we know what you are talking about just by referencing the rule name.[/gmod]
Title: Re: Which Chapter Should I Choose?
Post by: Manit0u on March 28, 2012, 11:13:43 AM
No one has also mentioned that despite non-CA chapters having some nice USRs the basic ATSKNF + Combat Tactics special rules combo is one of the best in the game. It's much better than being fearless and works wonders for big and shooty squads as you can easily break from a lost round of combat (CT), regroup at the start of your own phase (ATSKNF) and shred enemy to pieces with a hail of close range fire.
Title: Re: Which Chapter Should I Choose?
Post by: Grand Master Lomandalis on March 28, 2012, 04:34:28 PM
Black Templar:
No one mentioned assault termies with lightning claws in this armie.

Emperor's Champion Vow Accept any challenge giving a bonus to hitting in combat.

Terminator Lightning claws when charging w/ furious charge

Add a Chaplain in Termie armor and you are now rerolling misses on your charge!

/drool

Just another thought.
[gmod]Removed posted stats. Always operate under the assumption that we know what you are talking about just by referencing the rule name.[/gmod]

You may wish to go check out the FAQ's (http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/article.jsp?categoryId=600005&pIndex=1&aId=3400019&start=2) and read up on what has been changed for the Templar in regards to their vows, you will be quite surprised to find out what they are capable of now.
Title: Re: Which Chapter Should I Choose?
Post by: Edmund Droitcoeur on October 14, 2013, 04:33:59 PM
Firstly I realise this is kind of Threadnomancy (4 year gap) HOWEVER

Shouldn't this thread be updated now there is access to more chapters such as Imperial Fists, Iron Hands Etc.?